LDS Freedom Forum

Got any bruises anywhere? We could just wrap tobacco leaves around them and call it good.

EmmaLee, I would like to say I've always enjoyed your input and passion for the Gospel. Without formally knowing you and others in person, I feel a sincere and honest desire to serve and defend the Lord, and his church in your statements. Thank you for what you contribute here. :ymhug:

EmmaLee wrote:Got any bruises anywhere? We could just wrap tobacco leaves around them and call it good.

:)) A peace poultice may be more appropriate after some the discussion anyway, no?

That'll work! :-BD

Obrien wrote: Life is too short for games and dishonest discussion.

=))

EmmaLee wrote:What I'm mostly bothered by though, is just what happens on this forum. If a bunch of us were at a restaurant talking and saying the same things that have been said in this thread, I wouldn't be nearly as bothered. And here's why - Brian touts and sells this forum as "LDS", and not just any old LDS, but mainline, mainstream, non-fringe LDS. It says so right in his own rules and forum description. But what he lets happen here is far from those things. He bans mainline, mainstream LDS people like BeeP, Mark, Shadow, Jason, Tony/Franco, etc.. on a fairly regular, frequent basis - and in almost 10 years of being on this forum, I've never once seen him ban a non-mainline, non-mainstream, fringey type person (with the possible exception of Jesus). Why is that? He also deletes threads of mainstream LDS people without a word as to why. I've never seen him do the same to non-mainstream LDS people. Why is that?

This is inaccurate. I don't want this forum to be mainline/mainstream, never have. This forum has never been and never will be mainstream, it will always be fringe. What I've said is I don't want it to turn into an anti-Mormon, ex-Mormon, New Order Mormon forum. This is an "Old Order Mormon" forum. But I also can't force everyone to behave the way I think is ideal (nor do I want to) so there is a wide variety of types of people here.

I have banned non-mainstream people from LDSFF. Just because you don't remember or didn't know about it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I can think of 5 of them off the top of my head, there are more.

EmmaLee wrote:Here's my point - I honestly and truly do not care which theology/version of the gospel gets preached on this forum - I really don't. It can be anything Brian wants it to be and I'm 100% good with that. BUT, he should present it and sell it FOR WHAT IT TRULY IS and NOT for what it is NOT - and as it is right now, it is most assuredly NOT an LDS forum as he himself describes it in the rules and forum description. It is very deceptive, disingenuous, and flat-out wrong for him to pretend to anyone, let alone new people who don't know the history of this place, that LDSFF is a safe place for mainline, mainstream, non-fringe LDS people to talk and share their thoughts - because it is not - and THAT is what causes the vast majority of misunderstandings, contention, strife, and other crap we see here on a daily basis.

I've never ever promoted this as a mainstream forum from the very beginning. Have you been on a mainstream LDS forum?! Mainstream LDS forums do not allow discussion about secret combinations.. the whole reason this forum was created in the first place is because I wanted to talk about things that are not mainstream and couldn't discuss such things on the LDS forums that were around 10 years ago.

I think the confusion comes from this forum rule:

"- Discussion of almost all topics is welcome, but promoting ideas and doctrine that are apostate and contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ will not be allowed."

In a forum of fringe doctrine you will get much that is considered apostate by church standards. I think if we understand that it's a place where ideas are shared that may be different from what we hear and we can do this in a civil way things would maybe go smoother. The forum rules do still state that we are not to speak evil of church leaders - that is where most of the contention is started and if we avoided this it could really help lift this place back up as it was really great 5 years ago.

That being said I was banned took a year off from visiting and (sorry Brian I didn't ask for permission to come back I just started a new account and though I never knew what I was banned for it was probably for being a mainstream Mormon) now I am checking out to see how things are going.

e-eye2.0 wrote:I think the confusion comes from this forum rule:

"- Discussion of almost all topics is welcome, but promoting ideas and doctrine that are apostate and contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ will not be allowed."

In a forum of fringe doctrine you will get much that is considered apostate by church standards. I think if we understand that it's a place where ideas are shared that may be different from what we hear and we can do this in a civil way things would maybe go smoother. The forum rules do still state that we are not to speak evil of church leaders - that is where most of the contention is started and if we avoided this it could really help lift this place back up as it was really great 5 years ago.

That being said I was banned took a year off from visiting and (sorry Brian I didn't ask for permission to come back I just started a new account and though I never knew what I was banned for it was probably for being a mainstream Mormon) now I am checking out to see how things are going.

Yes the change of rules certainly created a changing standard from that time frame....and not for the better imo....

Didn't help that a long standing moderator personally apostatized during that process as well...

Also the forum as Brian stated the intent to be fringe was with respect to covering secret combinations and secret combination history...instead much of what is covered today is perceived secret combinations of church leadership - either for or against, sex, church history disputes, and personal diatribes. While the Heavenly Gift sub-forum was removed...the general gist of the conversation carried over and permeates the rest of the forum. Which brings me to this -

For what shepherd is there among you having many sheep doth not watch over them, that the wolves enter not and devour his flock? And behold, if a wolf enter his flock doth he not drive him out? Yea, and at the last, if he can, he will destroy him.

And now I say unto you that the good shepherd doth call after you; and if you will hearken unto his voice he will bring you into his fold, and ye are his sheep; and he commandeth you that ye suffer no ravenous wolf to enter among you, that ye may not be destroyed.

Alma 5

We clearly have a few folks intent on being destroyers of faith...which I don't believe was the stated intent of the forum's existence. If you look at the discussion categories with their definitions....none of them entail about 80% of what is discussed here now on a daily basis.

Brian, That would be fine if the Forum was titled Freedom Forum, but it is LDS Freedom Forum which clearly states to the reader that this is an LDS Forum. The average reader /seeker will believe that what is presented here are the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the beliefs of LDS members. "Mainstream" and a disclaimer in the fine print means nothing to the average seeker / reader.

BrianM wrote: I've never ever promoted this as a mainstream forum from the very beginning. Have you been on a mainstream LDS forum?! Mainstream LDS forums do not allow discussion about secret combinations.. the whole reason this forum was created in the first place is because I wanted to talk about things that are not mainstream and couldn't discuss such things on the LDS forums that were around 10 years ago.

Elizabeth wrote:Brian, That would be fine if the Forum was titled Freedom Forum, but it is LDS Freedom Forum which clearly states to the reader that this is an LDS Forum. The average reader /seeker will believe that what is presented here are the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the beliefs of LDS members. "Mainstream" and a disclaimer in the fine print means nothing to the average seeker / reader.

BrianM wrote: I've never ever promoted this as a mainstream forum from the very beginning. Have you been on a mainstream LDS forum?! Mainstream LDS forums do not allow discussion about secret combinations.. the whole reason this forum was created in the first place is because I wanted to talk about things that are not mainstream and couldn't discuss such things on the LDS forums that were around 10 years ago.

The disclaimer at the bottom of this page clearly states:

LDSFreedomForum.com does not necessarily agree with all content on this forum. This is not an official site of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The views and content on this site reflect only the opinions and teachings of the authors of the respective content contained herein.

Nowhere on this site does it say that what is presented here represents the teachings of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". So hopefully the average reader can read that.

That is what is inferred by the title LDS... that is a fact which cannot be denied.

That is what YOU infer by the title LDS.

Last Darn Sinner = LDS

Elizabeth wrote:That is what is inferred by the title LDS... that is a fact which cannot be denied.

I'm just glad Brian forgave me and reinstated me from my banning to deep outer web-darkness. I promise to try to never call an apostate an apostate again, even if they call me one and even if they're also a moderator, even a crappy one who has since been banned.

8-|

This is exactly what is going on here folks, fear tactics that I am pretty confident not even this member recognizes he is participating in.

Jason wrote: We clearly have a few folks intent on being destroyers of faith...

Notice how he says, "destoryers of faith"... and does not finish the statement. Faith in what? If it is anything but FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST the SON OF GOD, then destory it! Pull it down with the pride of those supporting it! Freedom! God's gospel freedom.

The same fearful reaction is exactly what I feel BEEPREPARED, TONY, and others who I feel cause most the contention on this forum from their stringent pharisaical defense of the church (notice I didn't say the gospel of Christ restored) and the policies, procedures, and traditions - rather than love unfeigned for the church (speaking of Christ defining the church as those who come to him, repent, and are baptized).

Might I ask, faith in what?

Show me where anyone you speak of is destroying the faith of anyone in Jesus Christ the son of God. Show us all please.

This vein of thought is so dangerous and seemingly rampant within the membership - the Spirit fills my heart brimming over when it occurs, as it is dangerous to convolute and use fear tactics like, "your faith is being destroyed by these apostates who speak against traditions of the brethren" when the reality is these "apostates" which I am labeled as one, are preaching of Christ and his restored gospel, persuading people of faith in Christ alone over all else. Some of the brethren get that, Elder Scott in my view the closest, now sadly gone.

I sustain Thomas S Monson, he is my brother, as the President of the church, I just have been told by the Holy Ghost, and the voice of Christ - to follow him NOT, but to follow Christ - I sustain you, you are my brother, but I follow you NOT - I sustain my neighbors, but I don't Trick or Treat (hehe) I follow them NOT - I however will pull down anything that the Spirit of God tells my heart is MORE OR LESS than His (Christ's) gospel, and that my friend is LDS FREEDOM, freedom from D&C 121 no matter how sugar coated it is and to any degree of unrighteousness, AMEN to such, and may we trust Christ in that he has reason to need to cleanse this nation starting with the hypocrites in his own house, speaking to the Church.

Remember, don't be a "jerk for Jesus" that is anti-Christ, faith destroying, attacking the gospel if anything else. What did the crusaders do in the name of Jesus? What did the high priests of Israel do in the name of God to Jesus himself? Don't be jerks for Jesus.

Coercing people in to being a certain way, believing a certain way, accepting a certain way is false and wrong and destructive and causes pain and misery to people.

The gospel of Jesus Christ if for ALL people, not just a specific audience or target type. The gospel of Jesus Christ is intended for everyone.

I don't know how else to say it but, love your enemy, do good to those who use you and abuse you, be kind, gentle, and loving even to the person you perceive to be the most repulsive. There is no room, no time, no reason to compell, force, coerce, and manipulate people to be "unified". It is a sham that Satan attempts to sell. The real way is to allow freedom to reign and let reason, persuasion, long-sufferring, patience, kindness, goodness, love unfeigned, be the means by which we bring about our purposes.

What is being done in this thread is an attempt to coerce and manipulate a point of view.

-Finrock

BrianM wrote:That is what YOU infer by the title LDS.

That is what an overwhelming percentage of the English speaking world would infer, at least at first glance of the title. However, if one takes the time to read forum rules, it's clear that this site is done by Brian, and he alone is the mod/creator. Expectations are laid out, differences in viewpoint may account for some of the variances in the beliefs of the members, but by a person's (note that I said a PERSON and not a TROLL) first post it should be clear that this is not a church run site, but one by a member with their own personal ideas.

I find Brian's reasoning well thought out, his overall application generally equitable, and even when he's wrong he's usually polite and professional about it. You're likely never going to find a person you agree on everything on, but two people on completely different sides of an issue can still learn from one another. I've had several deep disagreements with people on here, butted heads with someone kind of loudly on one topic only to find we're arm-in-arm on another. I have rarely called someone out and them personally evil, but I have, a couple of times, spoken out when I believed they were sharing evil beliefs. I wasn't rude (at least not in those cases) and I wasn't demeaning, but I plainly shared my belief of their desire to lead people away from Christ.

I'll admit, I tend to be suspicious of posts from people with only a few posts. I never dismiss anything they say or assign a dark motive behind them, but I'm more willing to give credence to something Shadow or Thinker says, someone I've had multiple conversations with. I know many new people come just as I did, looking for a new playground of thoughts to play on, but I'm aware that there are some who are generally just poop-stirrers. Hopefully we invite enough of the Spirit in that we read with a light of inspiration to see through the fertilizer.

I been busy and haven't been on the forum the last couple of days and first thing I see is that Emmalee is gone.

A few weeks ago BeeP was banned.

How many actual believing, active LDS women are left on this forum? Not many.

I guess Brian, you are right. You said in an earlier post that you didn't want a forum for mainstream LDS and as things are moving along, that's becoming more clear. It also seems that as more women leave, the forum is trending to an atmosphere which is more comfortable for men and with the loss of more 'mainstream' LDS, the board is reflecting this change as well.

I hope I'm not breaking rules by making these observations publicly, Smallfarm pointed out that we are not supposed to complain publicly. I'm trying not to complain, rather just give my observations. And, for all I know, this is how the majority want it.

BrianM wrote: 8-|

It was an unfair fight with some of those mods like Brent and BigD B-(
I needed therapy while I was banned :-T

AI2.0 wrote:I been busy and haven't been on the forum the last couple of days and first thing I see is that Emmalee is gone.

A few weeks ago BeeP was banned.

How many actual believing, active LDS women are left on this forum? Not many.

I guess Brian, you are right. You said in an earlier post that you didn't want a forum for mainstream LDS and as things are moving along, that's becoming more clear. It also seems that as more women leave, the forum is trending to an atmosphere which is more comfortable for men and with the loss of more 'mainstream' LDS, the board is reflecting this change as well.

I hope I'm not breaking rules by making these observations publicly, Smallfarm pointed out that we are not supposed to complain publicly. I'm trying not to complain, rather just give my observations. And, for all I know, this is how the majority want it.

I just clicked on EmmaLee''s user name to pull up her profile page and it shows she is still registered. I'm wondering why you believe she's gone? If it's because it doesn't show the date and time of her last visit, that's because one is allowed to select the option to hide that information.

BrotherOfMahonri wrote: Remember, don't be a "jerk for Jesus" that is anti-Christ, faith destroying, attacking the gospel if anything else. What did the crusaders do in the name of Jesus? What did the high priests of Israel do in the name of God to Jesus himself? Don't be jerks for Jesus.

Does anyone have a spare mirror that they can give Jared? He seems to be in desperate need of one.

AI2.0 wrote:I been busy and haven't been on the forum the last couple of days and first thing I see is that Emmalee is gone.

EmmaLee isn't gone, as far as I know.

I hope I'm not breaking rules by making these observations publicly, Smallfarm pointed out that we are not supposed to complain publicly. I'm trying not to complain, rather just give my observations. And, for all I know, this is how the majority want it.

I'm not going to ban all discussions of people expressing their opinions about the state of the forum... it's more about not needing to start a thread asking where your deleted thread went or what happened to a particular person - just send me a PM and ask.

Let the wheat and the tares grow up together...I guess we will just have to pull up a chair like Jonah and see who gets burned.

Stacy Oliver wrote:

BrotherOfMahonri wrote: Remember, don't be a "jerk for Jesus" that is anti-Christ, faith destroying, attacking the gospel if anything else. What did the crusaders do in the name of Jesus? What did the high priests of Israel do in the name of God to Jesus himself? Don't be jerks for Jesus.

Does anyone have a spare mirror that they can give Jared? He seems to be in desperate need of one.

Case in point? Did I point a finger at you particularly?

http://redeeminggod.com/jerks-for-jesus/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Christians learn to communicate better with non-Christians [might I add recently resigned members], or as some of my more outspoken ‘lost’ friends prefer to put it, Off the Map helps Christians learn how to not be jerks

some professed Christians are not actually following Jesus but are instead following religion

Some good points to consider for ourselves, each of us.

The following IMHO is the majority of what occurs on this forum...

Provided Christians a way to defend the faith-the expectation being that if we provide a biblical response to the arguments of atheists of doubters and essentially prove them wrong, they will be forced to admit the error of their ways and join us. (Short of that, we will at least experience the pleasure of intellectually humiliating them.)

Substitute ^^^ atheists for quote unquote LDSFF "apostates" and then vice versa substitute with "TBMs".

Looks like a good read...
http://www.amazon.com/Jim-Casper-Church ... 008M73ELU/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;