Allodial Title, Covenant and Deed

[Robert Sinclair]

Truth will be manifested, this is true.♡

Being an apostate from the whoredom of Ephraim, is not a problem for me or my family, do a book report on all the things Jesus Christ said to do, and start checking off that list, one by one, jsbaugh, see how many of these things you have proven yourself in, and write down all the ways that Jesus Christ has said to be like, and check those off, one by one, and see all those things you have proven yourself in, and come to know "all" the things Jesus Christ has said to know, and see if you feel the same way.♡

[Analyzing]

The words used for imparting to the saints is covenants and deeds, for stewardships of inheritances, is counsel from the LORD.

This is flat out wrong as you obviously discount latter day revelation on this issue. Was the lord just kidding when he pulled consecration and instituted the law of tithes?

Good morning jsbaugh.
I understand that forum members have an issue with Robert Sinclair being critical of Church leaders. I do not understand the dispute, in large part, concerning his message. When forum members dispute with Robert, with statements such as yours, I feel like I am watching people talking past each other.


This is why my confusion occurs: The Lord did not "pull" consecration. He "pulled" the United Order. Members,at least covenanted members,have been commanded to live consecration. “the law of sacrifice and the law of consecration were not done away with and are still in effect.Gordon B. Hinckley

While I can understand people not wanting harsh speech against PSR's of the Church I can also understand Robert Sinclair being concerned that members are not doing what the Lord has commanded.

Would you, or others with similar views, please help me understand if it is only critical speech of the brethren or if there is disagreement with the overall message? Do you believe there may be a place of mutual understanding on this issue that will allow strong contention to cease?
Thank you for your time and thoughts.

[Robert Sinclair]

Truth will be manifested, this is true.♡

Being an apostate from the whoredom of Ephraim, is not a problem for me or my family, do a book report on all the things Jesus Christ said to do, and start checking off that list, one by one, jsbaugh, see how many of these things you have proven yourself in, and write down all the ways that Jesus Christ has said to be like, and check those off, one by one, and see all those things you have proven yourself in, and come to know "all" the things Jesus Christ has said to know, and see if you feel the same way.♡

And again, I say to to all, have you proven yourselves unto God, that you are worthy to partake of the sacrament of the Lamb of God?♡

[freedomforall]

Try saying that at the judgement bar of Christ, for the revelation given in the Doctrine and Covenants, says to impart, yes, even after he said the redemption of Zion, would wait for a little season, he said to go and have experience imparting as the gospel requires, and for everyone to learn their duty, and have experience, keeping this celestial law.

And it is true, that the heads today, he has hid his face from, and they know this to be true, and it is for the perversion of equity, and loftiness, they have helped create in the vineyard of the LORD of Hosts.

Not one can testify that they have stood face to face in the flesh, and walked and talked with Jesus Christ, but because they are the heads of Ephraim, who was annointed and appointed, and honored and called and elected, to set up the standard, and ensign, and light of the fullness of "All things common among them", as Peter and his fellow 12, set up, and as the 12 in 4th Nephi set up, as two witnesses, as required by the law given of the LORD unto Moses, Ephraim is still his dear son, and after their shame and pain, as heads of Ephraim, they shall yet atone. I keep the law of consecration, and have no savings account as the Savior said to do, but live day to day, giving all my surplus away, to the needy around me, and even on this forum, who have called out for help. I have set up no idols around me to adore, above the poor, as shopping centers, mega million dollar temples, or half a billion dollar tracts of land, which thing is forbidden of God, as well as book sells, on Amazon.com or other book stores, peddling the words of Jesus Christ for money, which thing is also forbidden of God. And I will not contribute, to the robbery of God, but wait for the heads to atone for these things, at which time, my family will happily return, when I know my tithing and offerings are "all" going first and foremost to the poor and needy, then after the "residue" as God has commanded, going for temples and meetinghouses, massive tracts of land, ect, for the public benefit of the members.

I follow the Prophet Jesus Christ, and he says of the latter days, hearken not to these prophets, that have not his words from his own mouth, but speak of vision and dream out of their own hearts, for they will make you vain, and he does not lie, but only speaks the truth by the spirit of truth. And has given instructions on how to know perfectly in these latter days, how to know, and has given two questions to ask any man calling himself a prophet:

#1. What hath the LORD answered thee?

#2. What hath the LORD spoken?

These things you shall consider perfectly he says.

And Joseph Smith, Isaiah, and many other prophets, would be happy to answer these two questions.

Go ask Thomas Monson, see what he says.

Seek for the truth, by the spirit of truth, and know the day and hour, that is upon you.♡

Do you in any way think that you're the only one that can read scriptures? Do you want to be construed as a person weeping and howling, yet looked upon as a person crying wolf? Are you aware that your constant howling is viewed as being fanatical and overbearing? You don't think that every single poster on this forum hasn't in some way gotten the message by now?

Even though your idea may be noble, many people...people that know of this situation,,,are turning a deaf ear to all this howling. I don't think this was part of your intent was it? And this idea is not realistic at this time no matter how much howling and sending an alarm, for not very many people are prepared to live the United Order, in terms of the whole populace of believers in the world. For those that make it into the Millennium with Christ, they will be more prepared for this stuff. In fact, I think this is how the Lord will manage the affairs of the people. The government will be upon his shoulders and he will do as he likes. No mortgages, no taxes, no rich, no poor...everyone equal. Until our current, crooked government no longer exists, being equal (the Lord's way) cannot nor will not happen. And going and pestering President Monson is an unrealistic notion. He cannot counsel the Lord either and cause Father to have Pres Monson do as you think things should be done.

[Robert Sinclair]

No need to counsel the LORD, just keep his commandments which he has given to this House of Ephraim and invited guests.

It would make it so much easier to defend "Mormons" that I constantly have to defend against some who's sites I have been on, that say "Mormons are not Christians!", and I try to explain how I think Moroni is probly sorry for giving the book his fathers name, never intending a people to call themselves after his father, but after Jesus Christ, whom both Moroni and Mormon followed.

And when they attack and say "Mormons think they are the only true church, but they are not!", I have to explain that they have the instructions on how to be the one true church, but are not following those instructions given, of "All things common" "Equal in their temporal things of their own freewill", as of yet but they will, once Hosea 14:8 gets fullfilled, they just don't understand, how can you have the truth, but not live it, and go out telling everybody, you are the one true church.♡

[Zathura]

You are what they call an apostate and you can answer for that when the time comes. I can quote latter day scripture all day contradicting your views but in the end you are not going to listen. Good luck.

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

[Robert Sinclair]

jsbaugh, is just giving the standard answer taught.

I years and years ago, before reading all the words of Jesus Christ and doing a book report on all the things he said to do, be and know, would have given the same response to anyone else as well. Many people do not realize that the words given to the Old Testament prophets are the words of Jesus Christ the LORD, as well.

And that many of the things Jesus Christ said to Hosea, and Micah, and Moses, and Isaiah, and many others, are for our day and time, and if you have not done as Jesus Christ commands in 3rd Nephi 23:1-5 to search dilligently the words of Isaiah and the prophets, it will blind you, to where you cannot see many of these things.

I finally after many years of dilligently searching these things, have been able to text the things I have texted, and most of those things have been the words of Jesus Christ given unto the prophets of old, for our day and time.

Ever wonder why the church in 3rd Nephi was called, "The Church of Christ", and why today, by common consent of the spirit, it is to be called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"? It was to point to the day and hour that was upon you. So that the scriptures written speaking of the "latter days", you might hearken unto, and not reject. Even in "The Book of Enoch the Prophet" he writes of the "latter days", as does Jeremiah and Moses, Daniel, Hosea, and if you dilligently seach these things, you yourselves will begin to see clearer what is happening in your days upon this earth. You know how many wonder, why could not the Jews see that Jesus Christ was their Messiah? When many who were well read, knew who he was, including the "Three wise men" searching for him at his birth in Beth-lehem. It may seem like a lot of homework, but what can be of more value than gold and silver, than that; that you have memorized all the things Jesus Christ has said to do, and to be like, and to know.

This knowledge you can take with you, after your death, and will be of great worth unto you at that time as well as in this life, where not all the gold and silver in the world will you be able to take with you upon your death.♡

[freedomforall]

No need to counsel the LORD, just keep his commandments which he has given to this House of Ephraim and invited guests.

It would make it so much easier to defend "Mormons" that I constantly have to defend against some who's sites I have been on, that say "Mormons are not Christians!", and I try to explain how I think Moroni is probly sorry for giving the book his fathers name, never intending a people to call themselves after his father, but after Jesus Christ, whom both Moroni and Mormon followed.

And when they attack and say "Mormons think they are the only true church, but they are not!", I have to explain that they have the instructions on how to be the one true church, but are not following those instructions given, of "All things common" "Equal in their temporal things of their own freewill", as of yet but they will, once Hosea 14:8 gets fullfilled, they just don't understand, how can you have the truth, but not live it, and go out telling everybody, you are the one true church.♡

Because there is way to much more to living the gospel than how large one's mansion is that they got from the church "free". A wicked person could get a free house but they would still be wicked. Is this how you want to represent the Lord's true church? The inner vessel must be made clean and then the outer vessel. Do you think Jesus lived in a mansion and hung a nameplate inviting people in to hear the gospel?
Are you more interested in people getting free homes than declaring Christ? In fact, Jesus gets upset because people will not open their mouths and declare him. This is where more wailing and sounding the alarm should be focused. Apparently you want to go back and live the law of Moses.

D&C 60:1-3
1 Behold, thus saith the Lord unto the elders of his church, who are to return speedily to the land from whence they came: Behold, it pleaseth me, that you have come up hither;

2 But with some I am not well pleased, for they will not open their mouths, but they hide the talent which I have given unto them, because of the fear of man. Wo unto such, for mine anger is kindled against them.

3 And it shall come to pass, if they are not more faithful unto me, it shall be taken away, even that which they have.

[Robert Sinclair]

Yes, Jesus Christ when a little child lived in a house.

Once he became an adult he had a work to do, that would not require a home of his own.

Now, it is written that it is his purpose to provide for his saints-

"And it is my purpose to provide for my saints, for all things are mine." (See D&C 104:11-18)

Who would want families raising little children to be homeless?

So it is also written, "And behold, none are exempt from this law who belong to the church of the living God", "In your temporal things you shall be equal, and this not grudgingly, otherwise the abundance of the manifestations of the Spirit shall be withheld." (See D&C 70:10-14)

And the endowment promised the elders, has been withheld as promised, for not being equal.

And equal in what----?

"For food and raiment; for and inheritance; for houses and lands, in whatsoever circumstances I, the LORD, shall place them, and withersoever I, the LORD, shall send
them." ( See D&C 70:16)

Yes who would want as a loving father, anything less for his own children?♡

[freedomforall]

jsbaugh, is just giving the standard answer taught.

I years and years ago, before reading all the words of Jesus Christ and doing a book report on all the things he said to do, be and know, would have given the same response to anyone else as well. Many people do not realize that the words given to the Old Testament prophets are the words of Jesus Christ the LORD, as well.

And that many of the things Jesus Christ said to Hosea, and Micah, and Moses, and Isaiah, and many others, are for our day and time, and if you have not done as Jesus Christ commands in 3rd Nephi 23:1-5 to search dilligently the words of Isaiah and the prophets, it will blind you, to where you cannot see many of these things.

I finally after many years of dilligently searching these things, have been able to text the things I have texted, and most of those things have been the words of Jesus Christ given unto the prophets of old, for our day and time.

Ever wonder why the church in 3rd Nephi was called, "The Church of Christ", and why today, by common consent of the spirit, it is to be called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"? It was to point to the day and hour that was upon you. So that the scriptures written speaking of the "latter days", you might hearken unto, and not reject. Even in "The Book of Enoch the Prophet" he writes of the "latter days", as does Jeremiah and Moses, Daniel, Hosea, and if you dilligently seach these things, you yourselves will begin to see clearer what is happening in your days upon this earth. You know how many wonder, why could not the Jews see that Jesus Christ was their Messiah? When many who were well read, knew who he was, including the "Three wise men" searching for him at his birth in Beth-lehem. It may seem like a lot of homework, but what can be of more value than gold and silver, than that; that you have memorized all the things Jesus Christ has said to do, and to be like, and to know.

This knowledge you can take with you, after your death, and will be of great worth unto you at that time as well as in this life, where not all the gold and silver in the world will you be able to take with you upon your death.♡

3 Ne. 27:8
8 And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel.

D&C 115:4
4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[Robert Sinclair]

Thank you, freedomforall, I thought so, but while texting did not remember exactly where at first.♡

Makes even more sense for pointing the people to the scriptures written of the "latter days".♡

[freedomforall]

Yes, Jesus Christ when a little child lived in a house.

Once he became an adult he had a work to do, that would not require a home of his own.

Now, it is written that it is his purpose to provide for his saints-

"And it is my purpose to provide for my saints, for all things are mine." (See D&C 104:11-18)

Who would want families raising little children to be homeless?

So it is also written, "And behold, none are exempt from this law who belong to the church of the living God", "In your temporal things you shall be equal, and this not grudgingly, otherwise the abundance of the manifestations of the Spirit shall be withheld." (See D&C 70:10-14)

And the endowment promised the elders, has been withheld as promised, for not being equal.

And equal in what----?

"For food and raiment; for and inheritance; for houses and lands, in whatsoever circumstances I, the LORD, shall place them, and withersoever I, the LORD, shall send
them." ( See D&C 70:16)

Yes who would want as a loving father, anything less for his own children?♡

Doctrine and Covenants 98:18
18 Let not your hearts be troubled; for in my Father’s house are many mansions, and I have prepared a place for you; and where my Father and I am, there ye shall be also.

Unfortunately, there are people that will not dwell with Father. They will be in a lower kingdom, not where Father and Christ are.

So do you really think God gives everyone equality? Only in the sphere in which a person is assigned, either telestial, terrestrial or celestial. Even then there are three degrees of glory in the celestial, and only those who enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage can obtain the highest. SEE D&C 131:1-3 Maybe God will give the telestial beings a home within that realm, but they will never be allowed into his presence. D&C 76:

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

So now what do you think of equality for everyone?

[Robert Sinclair]

I am not the one who commanded equality, of homes and lands, food and raiment, for all his saints, from his storehouse treasury, as a feast of fat things well prepared, for the poor, from the rich and the learned the wise and the noble of his church.♡

I will not fight against his will for his people upon this earth, how about you?♡

[freedomforall]

I am not the one who commanded equality, of homes and lands, food and raiment, for all his saints, from his storehouse treasury, as a feast of fat things well prepared, for the poor, from the rich and the learned the wise and the noble of his church.♡

I will not fight against his will for his people upon this earth, how about you?♡

The whole of the New Testament is pertaining to the Law of Moses. This law has been ended by Christ himself, it was fulfilled in him.

3 Nephi 15:8
8 For behold, the covenant which I have made with my people is not all fulfilled; but the law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me.

Now we have the Law of Consecration

D&C 105:29
29 For it is my will that these lands should be purchased; and after they are purchased that my saints should possess them according to the laws of consecration which I have given.

Leviticus 7:37
37 This is the law of the burnt offering, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings;

D&C 85:3
3 It is contrary to the will and commandment of God that those who receive not their inheritance by consecration, agreeable to his law, which he has given, that he may tithe his people, to prepare them against the day of vengeance and burning, should have their names enrolled with the people of God.

A Zion people must:

D&C 72:15
15 Thus it cometh out of the church, for according to the law every man that cometh up to Zion must lay all things before the bishop in Zion.

Mosiah 4:26 (16–26)
16 And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish.
17 Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just—
18 But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God.
19 For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind?
20 And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceedingly great was your joy.
21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another.
22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.
23 I say unto you, wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world.
24 And again, I say unto the poor, ye who have not and yet have sufficient, that ye remain from day to day; I mean all you who deny the beggar, because ye have not; I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give.
25 And now, if ye say this in your hearts ye remain guiltless, otherwise ye are condemned; and your condemnation is just for ye covet that which ye have not received.
26 And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you—that is, for the sake of retaining a remission of your sins from day to day, that ye may walk guiltless before God—I would that ye should impart of your substance to the poor, every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according to their wants.

Alma 1:27
27 And they did impart of their substance, every man according to that which he had, to the poor, and the needy, and the sick, and the afflicted; and they did not wear costly apparel, yet they were neat and comely.

Hel. 4:12
12 And it was because of the pride of their hearts, because of their exceeding riches, yea, it was because of their oppression to the poor, withholding their food from the hungry, withholding their clothing from the naked, and smiting their humble brethren upon the cheek, making a mock of that which was sacred, denying the spirit of prophecy and of revelation, murdering, plundering, lying, stealing, committing adultery, rising up in great contentions, and deserting away into the land of Nephi, among the Lamanites—
.............................................................................................................................................
It is our substance in which we are to share that is the inheritance of those in need that are not getting it. For reasons of prides, haughtiness, mocking, etc. as described in the above scriptures.

And it is through tithe paying by the faithful that they will get their own inheritance from God...and not be burned at the coming of Christ.

It is NOT up to the church to provide for the poor, sick and afflicted...it is church members, all showing charity and love giving of their substance for the betterment of all.

If the members do not learn to give then how can they become a Zion people? D&C 72:15 This is a covenant and deed that cannot be broken, isn't it?

[Robert Sinclair]

I am not the one who commanded equality, of homes and lands, food and raiment, for all his saints, from his storehouse treasury, as a feast of fat things well prepared, for the poor, from the rich and the learned the wise and the noble of his church.♡

It is NOT up to the church to provide for the poor, sick and afflicted...it is church members, all showing charity and love giving of their substance for the betterment of all.

If the members do not learn to give then how can they become a Zion people? D&C 72:15 This is a covenant and deed that cannot be broken, isn't it?

The members consecrate into the storehouse treasury tithes and offerings, and the "church", imparts it back out to the poor, that's how it was commanded to be done, for "homes and lands", food and raiment, to be equal in temporal things. D&C 42 & 58 & 70 & 104 & 105.

The $40,000,000,000.00 + in assets did not magically appear, it was from faithful members consecration of tithes and offerings, for the poor.

Ephraim willingly walked away from the duty to God, to obey his "commandment" to impart these stewardships for inheritances in the land of promise, by covenants and deeds unto the poor, see Hosea 5:11, Micah 3:1-9, yes, please look, and underline in your book.

For this, he hides his face from them, till they acknowledge this offence, see Hosea 5:15, yes, please look and underline in your book.

Want proof, President Hinkley admitted in a news interview, that face to face meetings, with Jesus or angels, as Joseph had, were no longer the case, but by the still small voice.

Is Ephraim still his dear son?

Yes.

Still annointed and appointed to seek his face, and establish and redeem Zion?

Yes.

Everyone here at my house is asleep, it's 2AM here, so I looked on my phone, not taking time away from them, saw your post about this, and thought I would seek to help you see, that it is the "church" and "not individuals" who have forsaken this law and commandment to "impart unto the poor", see 105:2-3, yes look please, and underline in your book. For it is clearly written, it is the "church" and "not individuals", that have forsaken his will, not been obedient "imparting".

People can get bent out of shape, saying this is an attack on the church, but the facts written in the scriptures and truth of the matter is important, and not to be swept under a bushel, but the truth is to be brought to light.

People who fight against the truth, have far more to worry about, than a member who takes it out of the closet, and brings it to light.♡

And this response, as the tread's O.P. was about me and deeds, I would hope would not be considered spam, as my intent and desire, is to help, bring the "truth" to light, to help the old men, and husbandmen, and vinedressers of Ephraim, acknowledge and atone, and fullfill Hosea 14:8, please look and underline in your book.

Not my place, some may say, to bring to light, these things, but the scriptures say differently, and it is upon all his children, to hear his voice, bring it to light, to be seen, and not hidden.♡

Now back to sleep for now.♡

[freedomforall]

I am not the one who commanded equality, of homes and lands, food and raiment, for all his saints, from his storehouse treasury, as a feast of fat things well prepared, for the poor, from the rich and the learned the wise and the noble of his church.♡

It is NOT up to the church to provide for the poor, sick and afflicted...it is church members, all showing charity and love giving of their substance for the betterment of all.

If the members do not learn to give then how can they become a Zion people? D&C 72:15 This is a covenant and deed that cannot be broken, isn't it?

The members consecrate into the storehouse treasury tithes and offerings, and the "church", imparts it back out to the poor, that's how it was commanded to be done, for "homes and lands", food and raiment, to be equal in temporal things. D&C 42 & 58 & 70 & 104 & 105.

The $40,000,000,000.00 + in assets did not magically appear, it was from faithful members consecration of tithes and offerings, for the poor.

Ephraim willingly walked away from the duty to God, to obey his "commandment" to impart these stewardships for inheritances in the land of promise, by covenants and deeds unto the poor, see Hosea 5:11, Micah 3:1-9, yes, please look, and underline in your book.

For this, he hides his face from them, till they acknowledge this offence, see Hosea 5:15, yes, please look and underline in your book.

Want proof, President Hinkley admitted in a news interview, that face to face meetings, with Jesus or angels, as Joseph had, were no longer the case, but by the still small voice.

Is Ephraim still his dear son?

Yes.

Still annointed and appointed to seek his face, and establish and redeem Zion?

Yes.

Everyone here at my house is asleep, it's 2AM here, so I looked on my phone, not taking time away from them, saw your post about this, and thought I would seek to help you see, that it is the "church" and "not individuals" who have forsaken this law and commandment to "impart unto the poor", see 105:2-3, yes look please, and underline in your book. For it is clearly written, it is the "church" and "not individuals", that have forsaken his will, not been obedient "imparting".

People can get bent out of shape, saying this is an attack on the church, but the facts written in the scriptures and truth of the matter is important, and not to be swept under a bushel, but the truth is to be brought to light.

People who fight against the truth, have far more to worry about, than a member who takes it out of the closet, and brings it to light.♡

And this response, as the tread's O.P. was about me and deeds, I would hope would not be considered spam, as my intent and desire, is to help, bring the "truth" to light, to help the old men, and husbandmen, and vinedressers of Ephraim, acknowledge and atone, and fullfill Hosea 14:8, please look and underline in your book.

Not my place, some may say, to bring to light, these things, but the scriptures say differently, and it is upon all his children, to hear his voice, bring it to light, to be seen, and not hidden.♡

Now back to sleep for now.♡

Show the exact reference in scripture that says "homes and lands."
Where does it say that the church is supposed to provide homes and lands.

You apparently didn't pay attention to the scriptures I posted. It is the members of the church that are to show charity and give to the poor, not to enable them, but to help those is true need. Otherwise people are supposed to be self sufficient.

You constantly ranting about the church passing out homes and such is a false idea...and unless you accept the scriptures telling us to be charitable and giving of our own substance, you are only spitting against the wind. In fact, you don't even acknowledge those scriptures. It makes no difference how much money the church has, it is not up to them to provide for everyone. People who get something for nothing seldom thank the giver. God says to be self sufficient to the best of our abilities. Yet the members are to share substance with others in learning how to be charitable.

Even I have received groceries from the church, but I was also required to work at the welfare cannery in return, which I was glad to do. Many members have done this.

Do you only have a massive bone to pick with the church? Do you think that just because the church has X amount of dollars...they owe it to people as a gift, or an inheritance? I sense an underlying anger in your messages...and don't think God doesn't pick up on this either. This church is run by Christ, and he doesn't owe anyone anything, especially to anyone that is not humble and contrite. And you certainly cannot demand the church do do anything without God's approval. It almost sounds like you're trying to get people up in arms and to do picket duty in front of the Church office building just like the gay and women's rights movements. Not saying this is your intent, only that it appears to be a thorn in your side that just keeps festering. Of course I can be totally wrong in this thought. It's just the constant post after post after post after post of the same thing over and over and over and over and over again that sends out the kind of message that you are just plain dissatisfied with the church having money, and that it needs to be spent on homes for anyone that wants one, free of charge.

Let's see what the Lord has to say about deeds and covenants and the poor:

Doctrine and Covenants 82:10-18
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.
11 Therefore, verily I say unto you, that it is expedient for my servants Edward Partridge and Newel K. Whitney, A. Sidney Gilbert and Sidney Rigdon, and my servant Joseph Smith, and John Whitmer and Oliver Cowdery, and W. W. Phelps and Martin Harris to be bound together by a bond and covenant that cannot be broken by transgression, except judgment shall immediately follow, in your several stewardships—

12 To manage the affairs of the poor, and all things pertaining to the bishopric both in the land of Zion and in the land of Kirtland;
13 For I have consecrated the land of Kirtland in mine own due time for the benefit of the saints of the Most High, and for a stake to Zion.
14 For Zion must increase in beauty, and in holiness; her borders must be enlarged; her stakes must be strengthened; yea, verily I say unto you, Zion must arise and put on her beautiful garments.
15 Therefore, I give unto you this commandment, that ye bind yourselves by this covenant, and it shall be done according to the laws of the Lord.
16 Behold, here is wisdom also in me for your good.
17 And you are to be equal, or in other words, you are to have equal claims on the properties, for the benefit of managing the concerns of your stewardships, every man according to his wants and his needs, inasmuch as his wants are just—
18 And all this for the benefit of the church of the living God, that every man may improve upon his talent, that every man may gain other talents, yea, even an hundred fold, to be cast into the Lord’s storehouse, to become the common property of the whole church—

You see there are rules behind these covenants and deeds. Even God doesn't just hand out things without an accounting and stewardship. And our wants better be just.

How do you know that that money isn't allotted for the building of Zion, the future New Jerusalem?

[Robert Sinclair]

I wish no longer to debate this issue. I have showed many times 104:11-18. Please read and underline in your scriptures.

And 105:2-3-------

"Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning

the church

and not individuals,

they might have been redeemed even now.

But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner if evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them."

I found this out, when I pondered upon giving our home to the poor.

If I gave it to the church, it would not be re-distributed back out to the poor.

So we gave directly to the poor once, when I was what was considered a rich man.

I could give the church 10,000 homes and not one of those, under current policy would be given to the poor and needy of my branch, or ward or stake.

I am done contributing to build idols made from the hands of men to adore above the poor.

I was a 100% tithe payer, married in the Los Angeles temple, ready to build Zion, but was unable to change the hearts and minds of the leaders to feel the same way.

I would happily return in a heartbeat, if this whoredom of Ephraim ceases.

When you see eye to eye with Jesus Christ, you will know perfectly this is as he requires, tithes and offerings of his storehouse treasury, first for the poor, for stewardships, by covenants and deeds, that cannot be broken, then the "residue" for buildings of worship.

Don't even try to tell me that members do not pay tithes and offerings as requested, by the church faithfully every year, year after year, after decade after decade, like my mother, and others have always, never failing to so do.

It is "the church" and "not individuals" that has refused to obey God.

If I ever get a chance to get with "60 Minutes" reporters, I can show them perfectly these things, they can put this story out for the whole world to see, and we shall see, who tells and believes the truth, and who does not.

I do not have the keys to the storehouse treasury, but you can believe if I did, I would liquidate all the surplus assets of the church, and put out a call to the rich and learned, and wise and noble of this church, to assist in a feast of fat things for the poor of Christ's church.

And I would put out the call for all the Bishops to see who among the members in their branches and wards, was poor and needy, and was a true member living according to D&C 20:37&69, and had been faithful, and to work with them in obtaining homes and or lands, by covenants and deeds, that the church would not break, once it was given to those members, but let them prove to God, what they can do for him, once he has helped them.

Then you could witness, as the windows of heaven would open up and begin to pour out blessings as the LORD has promised.♡

Not my job and not my position in the church however.

Mine at present is to weep for all of you, and to howl and spare not, and shew his people of their transgression, and to sound the alarm, of the loftiness and perversion of equity in his vineyard.

100% tithe and offering members of the church are not at fault, for Zion not being redeemed, but it is the fault of "the church".

This is the word of the LORD, to Joseph Smith, on Fishing River, Missouri, June 22, 1834.

Fight against this revelation, you fight against the word, from the Spirit of truth, given unto Joseph Smith.

Like I said, if I ever get in a position, with "60 Minutes" to do a special report, I will, save the church acknowledges their offence before I can. We shall pull up the interview with President Hinkley, and go through the scriptures, to show why, there has been no more face to face meetings, with Jesus Christ, and angels, as there was with Joseph Smith, and about the three testaments of being equal in temporal things, all things common, not being followed by the leaders of the House of Ephraim.

I truly hope there is no need, the offence is acknowledged, and I and my family, and many lost sheep, return happily.♡

[freedomforall]

I wish no longer to debate this issue. I have showed many times 104:11-18. Please read and underline in your scriptures.

And 105:2-3-------

"Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning

the church

and not individuals,

they might have been redeemed even now.

But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner if evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them."

I found this out, when I pondered upon giving our home to the poor.

If I gave it to the church, it would not be re-distributed back out to the poor.

So we gave directly to the poor once, when I was what was considered a rich man.

I could give the church 10,000 homes and not one of those, under current policy would be given to the poor and needy of my branch, or ward or stake.

I am done contributing to build idols made from the hands of men to adore above the poor.

I was a 100% tithe payer, married in the Los Angeles temple, ready to build Zion, but was unable to change the hearts and minds of the leaders to feel the same way.

I would happily return in a heartbeat, if this whoredom of Ephraim ceases.

When you see eye to eye with Jesus Christ, you will know perfectly this is as he requires, tithes and offerings of his storehouse treasury, first for the poor, for stewardships, by covenants and deeds, that cannot be broken, then the "residue" for buildings of worship.

Don't even try to tell me that members do not pay tithes and offerings as requested, by the church faithfully every year, year after year, after decade after decade, like my mother, and others have always, never failing to so do.

It is "the church" and "not individuals" that has refused to obey God.

If I ever get a chance to get with "60 Minutes" reporters, I can show them perfectly these things, they can put this story out for the whole world to see, and we shall see, who tells and believes the truth, and who does not.

I do not have the keys to the storehouse treasury, but you can believe if I did, I would liquidate all the surplus assets of the church, and put out a call to the rich and learned, and wise and noble of this church, to assist in a feast of fat things for the poor of Christ's church.

And I would put out the call for all the Bishops to see who among the members in their branches and wards, was poor and needy, and was a true member living according to D&C 20:37&69, and had been faithful, and to work with them in obtaining homes and or lands, by covenants and deeds, that the church would not break, once it was given to those members, but let them prove to God, what they can do for him, once he has helped them.

Then you could witness, as the windows of heaven would open up and begin to pour out blessings as the LORD has promised.♡

Not my job and not my position in the church however.

Mine at present is to weep for all of you, and to howl and spare not, and shew his people of their transgression, and to sound the alarm, of the loftiness and perversion of equity in his vineyard.

100% tithe and offering members of the church are not at fault, for Zion not being redeemed, but it is the fault of "the church".

This is the word of the LORD, to Joseph Smith, on Fishing River, Missouri, June 22, 1834.

Fight against this revelation, you fight against the word, from the Spirit of truth, given unto Joseph Smith.

Like I said, if I ever get in a position, with "60 Minutes" to do a special report, I will, save the church acknowledges their offence before I can. We shall pull up the interview with President Hinkley, and go through the scriptures, to show why, there has been no more face to face meetings, with Jesus Christ, and angels, as there was with Joseph Smith, and about the three testaments of being equal in temporal things, all things common, not being followed by the leaders of the House of Ephraim.

I truly hope there is no need, the offence is acknowledged, and I and my family, and many lost sheep, return happily.♡

I knew there was an underlying motive for all this howling. And it isn't going to help the poor or the church or even God for the emotional outbursts you cover with the use of scripture. You want me and anyone else to read the scriptures and go along with the hurt in your heart. Isn't that an unrealistic request?
Howling for the poor in humility and peace is a lot different than howling with emotional unrest in your system and having a vengeful underlying motive.
What happened to you is sad, and the true reasons behind the issue may be obscure...but why make waves to the whole world? All you may accomplish is digging a deeper hole for yourself with regards to how right your heart is before God. Do you think he is well pleased with this action? Or do you feel all will be well once this blows over and you face your maker? Will you have a clear conscience? Or do you even care one way or another?

I hope you find peace, Robert.

[Robert Sinclair]

No vengence in my heart, only desire for righteousness, and justice, and equity of Zion, to be established, anyone who cares as Jesus Christ, can groan, and be troubled, and be in pain, for the loftiness and perversion of equity, of the House of Ephraim, and of it's whoredom before God.

I know this does not last forever but has and end, I hope and pray it comes soon for Ephraim, and Hosea 14:8 is fullfilled.♡

[Robert Sinclair]

And freedomforall, look at what Enoch did, howling unto the people, in a loud voice, and many were offended because of him, and drowned in the great flood, but his howling worked for some, and it came to pass, in his days, he built a city that was called the City of Holiness, even Zion. (See Moses 7:18-18 &6:37-38) ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

The intent, faith and desire, is for the redemption of Zion now during our lifetimes, and not to be delayed further, but take the great and wonderful "if" given and commanded to Jesus Christ of the very eternal Father, that is recorded in 3rd Nephi chapter 16 in verses 10-13.

I would that you might ponder upon this-----

How often has Jesus Christ said that the Father commanded him to say something like this?

Rember this book is written to 2 groups of people Jews and Gentiles, if not a Jew, he is speaking to you, of the rejection of the fullness of his gospel, and of a gift given of "if".

Take this gift of "if" in this contract or covenant given, and exercise this right given to return, and not be as salt without savor, good for nothing but to be cast out, but please sound the alarm, and see to it ear is given, as I know many of you will.♡

Now off to other sites, to sound the alarm there again as well.♡

[freedomforall]

From: http://www.mormonwiki.com/LDS_Church_Fi ... e_of_Funds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are tithes really supposed to be used to give to the poor and needy?

Tithing funds are used to support five key areas of activity:

Providing buildings or places of worship for members around the world. We have thousands of such buildings and continue to open more, sometimes several in a week.

Providing education programs, including support for our universities and our seminary and institute programs.

Supporting the Church’s worldwide missionary program.

Building and operating nearly 140 temples around the world and the administration of the world’s largest family history program.

Supporting the Church’s welfare programs and humanitarian aid, which serve people around the world — both members of the Church as well as those who are not members.

From time to time, some people, including journalists, try to attach a monetary value to the Church in the same way they would assess the assets of a commercial corporation. Such comparisons simply do not hold up. For instance, a corporation’s branch offices or retail outlets have to be financially justified as a source of profit. But every time The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints builds a place of worship, the building becomes a consumer of assets and a financial obligation that has to be met through worldwide member donations. The ongoing maintenance and upkeep, utilities and use of the building can only be achieved as long as faithful members continue to support the Church.

On occasion someone will try to estimate the Church’s income and determine how much of that is used to care for the poor and needy. Again, they rarely capture the whole picture. The bedrock principles underlying the Church’s welfare and humanitarian efforts are Christlike service and self-reliance.

Nearly 30,000 bishops who oversee their respective congregations have direct access to Church funds to care for those in need, as they help members achieve self-sufficiency.

At Welfare Square in Salt Lake City, where the Church cans goods for its distribution warehouses, some procedures would be more efficient if automated. Instead, the Church has opted for more labor-intensive production lines that provide opportunities for people to give service and for welfare recipients to work for what they get. This is not the pattern of a commercial business, but it is the pattern for helping people to help themselves. The Church’s aim is to help individuals to overcome temporal barriers as they pursue spiritual values.

LDS humanitarian aid project

Published numbers related to our humanitarian efforts include only dollars spent directly on humanitarian service. The Church absorbs the administrative costs. Furthermore, these numbers do not reflect the Church’s extensive welfare and employment services that serve many thousands worldwide. They also do not represent Deseret Industries thrift stores that provide vouchers to other charities for their use, donations to food pantries, or humanitarian- or welfare-focused missionary service or support given to aid other relief organizations in their missions. Hundreds of thousands of hours of donated service underpin Church programs such as these.

The Church exists to improve the lives of people across the world by bringing them closer to Jesus Christ. The assets of the Church are used in ways to support that mission. Buildings are built for members to come together to worship God and to be taught the gospel of Jesus Christ. Missionaries are sent to invite people to come to Christ. Resources are used to provide food and clothing for the needy and to provide ways for people to lift themselves up and be self-reliant. What is important is not the cost but the outcome. As former Church President Gordon B. Hinckley said, “The only true wealth of the Church is in the faith of its people.”

Those who attempt to define the Church as an institution devoted to amassing monetary wealth miss the entire point: the Church’s purpose is to bring people to Christ and to follow His example by lifting the burdens of those who are struggling. The key to understanding the Church is to see it not as a worldwide corporation, but as millions of faithful members in thousands of congregations across the world following Christ and caring for each other and their neighbors.

Tithing is not for the poor, service and self-reliance is.

https://www.lds.org/topics/tithing?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tithing funds are always used for the Lord’s purposes—to build and maintain temples and meetinghouses, to sustain missionary work, to educate Church members, and to carry on the work of the Lord throughout the world.

https://www.lds.org/manual/tithing-and- ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
How Are Tithing Funds Used?
• Building and maintaining temples, chapels, and other Church buildings.
• Supporting the activities and operations of local Church congregations.
• Supporting the programs of the Church, including education and family history research.


This is our duty, not the church:

Mosiah 4:26
26 And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you—that is, for the sake of retaining a remission of your sins from day to day, that ye may walk guiltless before God—I would that ye should impart of your substance to the poor, every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according to their wants.

Matt 19:21
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

[Robert Sinclair]

Be it known, the wind of men, will never take away from the truth, of homes and lands first, for stewardships of inheritances for the poor, then with the---------

"Residue"


Go and build all the temples and meetinghouses, and purchase all the welfare farms, humanitarian aid projects to your hearts desire, for the LORD has promised there is more than enough and to spare to do this.♡

Yes, take the tithes and offerings, and first give inheritances to the poor and needy, as Christ has instructed, by covenants and deeds that cannot be broken, equal in your temporal things for homes and lands, as well as just food and raiment, and the windows of heaven shall open up, and pour out such great blessings, even the endowment held back, upon this house, that there shall not be room enough to receive it all.♡

Blessed be the LORD, and his goodness instructed to the House of Ephraim and their invited guests, of "all things common among us".♡

Hosannah to the Most High God.♡

"Wonderful, Counseller, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."♡
(Isaiah 9:6)

"For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed."
(Isaiah 6:16)

"Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
To turn aside the needy from judgement, and to take away the right of the poor of my people"
(Isaiah 10:1)

"For Israel hath forgotten his Maker and buildeth temples" (Hosea 8:14)

Take away no longer the right of the poor, to homes and lands, from his storehouse treasury, and rob God and the poor no more forever.♡

[freedomforall]

Be it known, the wind of men, will never take away from the truth, of homes and lands first, for stewardships of inheritances for the poor, then with the---------

"Residue"


Go and build all the temples and meetinghouses, and purchase all the welfare farms, humanitarian aid projects to your hearts desire, for the LORD has promised there is more than enough and to spare to do this.♡

Yes, take the tithes and offerings, and first give inheritances to the poor and needy, as Christ has instructed, by covenants and deeds that cannot be broken, equal in your temporal things for homes and lands, as well as just food and raiment, and the windows of heaven shall open up, and pour out such great blessings, even the endowment held back, upon this house, that there shall not be room enough to receive it all.♡

Blessed be the LORD, and his goodness instructed to the House of Ephraim and their invited guests, of "all things common among us".♡

Hosannah to the Most High God.♡

"Wonderful, Counseller, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."♡
(Isaiah 9:6)

"For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed."
(Isaiah 6:16)

"Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
To turn aside the needy from judgement, and to take away the right of the poor of my people"
(Isaiah 10:1)

"For Israel hath forgotten his Maker and buildeth temples" (Hosea 8:14)

Take away no longer the right of the poor, to homes and lands, from his storehouse treasury, and rob God and the poor no more forever.♡

You seem to be a one man show, will not accept other scriptures nor facts presented.

Tithing is not for the poor. PERIOD. If a message is to be wailed and howled, please make sure it is a factual one.

You never did produce a scripture that specifically mentions homes and lands. The term inheritance is ambiguous at best. Christ says for us to give to the poor. Do you not believe Christ over all the other people you cite? Good grief.

[Robert Sinclair]

I have given over and over examples in the scriptures of tithes for the poor, yet you still have not eyes to see.

And I have given over and over and over examples of specifically mentioning "homes and lands", look closely at D&C 70:16-----

Section 70 if you will read, specifically says no one is exempt in verse 10 and to be equal in your temporal things in verse 14 and for homes and lands for inheritances, as well as food and raiment in verse 16, no matter whatsoever circumstances, or withersoever he sends you.♡