LDS Freedom Forum

Elizabeth wrote:I personally would much prefer to live in the 50's world, than todays' world.

Care to elaborate? I can't believe anyone would seriously give up all the progress we've made in the past 60 years. Sure, it's come at a cost, but I think any serious comparison between the two time periods (at least in America) would reveal that we've come out ahead in the bargain.

I suspect when people make remarks like this, they are thinking more about pop culture depictions of the 1950s than actual history. McCarthyism, Jim Crowe, polio, the Korean War, J. Edgar Hoover, rampant (legal) domestic violence, widespread tobacco use, lead based paint, deathtrap automobiles. None of that comes across on the black-and-white reruns on TVland.

Life was better. Real life lived. Everything does not revolve around TVland. In fact there was no TV where I was referring to.

I think we can all agree that some things were better and some things were worse.

Elizabeth wrote:Life was better. Real life lived. Everything does not revolve around TVland. In fact there was no TV where I was referring to.

Agreed, in reference to family life the 1950s was far superior to today. Most people aspired to get married and raise a family, no matter their religious or political persuasion. Most people also connected to a core value in the nation, and there was a sense of right and wrong that even the motion picture industry, for the most part, upheld. And while conformity was pushed by the government after WW2 the people had a sense of individualism and skepticism towards authority; tempered with a sense of respecting the law when the law was on the right side of morality.

The 1960s scared the you-know-what out of the powers that be. People had the security to begin to question and explore. So the government had to destroy the youth movement. That is why they mainstreamed LSD and other drugs into the general youth rebellion movement. That is why they funded feminism, pushed for abortion and the acceptance of alternative lifestyles. The middle class was dangerous and needed to be killed out, and what better way than to dry up their fountains so to speak, destroy them root and branch.

Today we see men being told to hate women, women told to hate men, young told to reject the values of the old and class warfare is a hot commodity with the Democrat party. If a man is more nurturing and wants to be involved with the kids the woman is told he is low on ambition and should be making more money, if a man is more aggressive and power-driven of course he will be likely to excel in whatever field he goes into, but that also means he will not be as nurturing and "sensitive" and the woman will be told he is a self-centered monster. So whatever a man does he is wrong. The former sort of guy will likely retreat into something like porn if he is constantly belittled by his wife while the latter guy will find someone who will satisfy him mentally or sexually, with our without leaving his wife. Of course the woman is told that if she has a career she should feel guilty for passing up motherhood, or placing her kids in daycare, while the woman who stays at home is portrayed by society as a loser. Yes, as both the Hadith and the Bible points out the latter days will be filled with antagonisms between men and women. No wonder more and more people are choosing not to get married, or to explore homosexuality. And just as LSD was facilitated by the US government so too are these anti-family policies. Yet most religious people are content to follow the lead of the society, finding satisfaction that they are not quite as sinful as most people, and also believe that as long as they are driving a BMW they must be more righteous than their neighbors with six kids and a 15 year old mini van.

For once I agree with you, Fiannan. That's kind of scary.

Jezebel wrote:For once I agree with you, Fiannan. That's kind of scary.

I feel like we just entered the Twilight Zone! Finally something Fiannan said that other folks can agree on ;)

Gosh, how I miss the "old days" X(

Lol!!!

Magus wrote:I think we can all agree that some things were better and some things were worse.

I agree completely. And it's hard to make an honest comparison unless we agree on the rules of the game. Are we saying that someone from our current era, who knows how bad (and how good) the world would get, would ultimately be happier in a hypothetical world where the last 60 years never happened? Or are we saying that life was better for the people who actually lived back then?

What I'm saying is, if you or I went back to the 50s like Marty McFly, we wouldn't suddenly be scared to death of something like the Cuban Missile Crisis, because we know how the Cold War turns out. We would laugh at the Senate hearings on comic books, because we know that they are harmless compared to what is coming. But the Cuban Missile Crises was an existential threat to the people of that era. And comic books were their internet porn. So someone living back then was just as worried about their world crashing down around them as we are today. But if we could go back, knowing what we know now, we could ignore all of that and enjoy all the good parts of society.

Then again, that would be a blessing and a curse. I imagine that it would be very difficult to live without all of the advances in the past 60 years that we have become accustomed to. I don't know if I could drive one of their cars knowing what I know now, for example. Or live in a house covered in lead based paint, or send my kids to school in buildings full of asbestos. I wouldn't be scared of many of the things that the people of that era worried about, but I would have a whole other set of anxieties caused by things they knew nothing about.

Actually, subjects that are controversial ought to be approached with caution and not jest. Some people struggle with sexual problems within a marriage, mature and sensitive people recognize what is and is not appropriate to say.

In fairness who should have the responsibility to determine that? This sounds really political correct speech to me.

My suggestion is to get a hotub. Seriously it's very stimulating to sit and relax, swirling warm water, moonlight and stars. Be aware of privacy of course,

bornfree wrote:My suggestion is to get a hotub. Seriously it's very stimulating to sit and relax, swirling warm water, moonlight and stars. Be aware of privacy of course,

Of course if you live in Utah there is always Diamond Fork hot springs. Hardly anyone hikes into there late at night.

I do not live in Utah, so sultry splashing will have to be in our hotub. Generally watery environments are not ideal for
sexual activity. It makes women susceptible to urinary tract and yeast infections.

Elizabeth wrote:Life was better. Real life lived. Everything does not revolve around TVland. In fact there was no TV where I was referring to.

You mean when these were the kinds of things that made up social networking?

I'm also curious if there are any husbands who just stop trying. When "Do this and maybe you'll get lucky" or "don't do that and maybe you'll get lucky" both seem to fail and there's no combination of action or inaction that leads to success, do guys stop trying?

iWriteStuff wrote:I'm also curious if there are any husbands who just stop trying. When "Do this and maybe you'll get lucky" or "don't do that and maybe you'll get lucky" both seem to fail and there's no combination of action or inaction that leads to success, do guys stop trying?

Do or do not - Yoda

LOL Active LDS members are so fortunate. Others... non active or not Christian... would just find another partner if such a situation was a concern to them.

iWriteStuff wrote:I'm also curious if there are any husbands who just stop trying. When "Do this and maybe you'll get lucky" or "don't do that and maybe you'll get lucky" both seem to fail and there's no combination of action or inaction that leads to success, do guys stop trying?

Col. Flagg wrote:Interesting thread. Anyone know how to increase my wife's libido? We're sexually active, but it seems to take about 30-45 days for her hormones to get interested in intimacy again after the last time. Our sex life has never been better in terms of passion and intimacy, but dang, I wish it was more than just every 30-45 days. I'd prefer 2-3 times a month is all, but she's once every 1.5 months. And I don't feel good about asking her to take anything to get more interested or to fake interest just for me - would rather it was a natural thing, but I guess all women have different libidos. I even had a vasectomy last year (have 4 kids) and it seemed to get her more interested not having to worry about bearing children anymore and it used to be once every 2-3 months, but still, every 1.5 months is difficult as I am a very affectionate individual and it can be hard to get her 'in the mood'.

You have to woo her. The donkey knows-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bMaFjEH1B0g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Start with a nice romantic duet- Kenny knows-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C3BuITOx3Cs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Then you'll be singing the song of Charlie Rich-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O3iEFfA4TmI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You're welcome. Keep the results to yourself :ymcowboy:

You're asking our lovable Sargent Schultz to keep something to himself Shadow? Who's kidding who! This is a TMI alert for my "affectionate in the mood" little puppy dog friend. Best follow the example of your namesake when discussing your personal affairs of the heart. (And I mean personal..)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcxGFmYyPs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speaking of namesake-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iLdfLU7SvfY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

iWriteStuff wrote:I'm also curious if there are any husbands who just stop trying. When "Do this and maybe you'll get lucky" or "don't do that and maybe you'll get lucky" both seem to fail and there's no combination of action or inaction that leads to success, do guys stop trying?

I'm afraid many husbands and wives just stop trying, which is sad.
Try changing your mindset from "trying" to just being loving and attractive. Your wife can sense if you're trying, or in other-words, giving her love in hopes you get some back. Her invitation to you to be sexually intimate is a gift she has to give similar to the gift you give her when you propose marriage. Just like you don't want to feel any pressure to progress the relationship or propose marriage, she doesn't want to feel pressure to be sexually intimate. The key, at least it was the key for me to start loving it again, was for my husband to give me regular holding- time, non-sexual physical and emotional intimacy, with reassurance that it didn't have to lead to sex. That reassurance that he would love me unconditionally, opened up my floodgate of desire. Unconditional love will help your wife feel an increased desire to give the gift on sexual love. The key is not letting on that you want it or expect it. Take all pressure off and continue to show lots of affection.

Sarah wrote:

iWriteStuff wrote:I'm also curious if there are any husbands who just stop trying. When "Do this and maybe you'll get lucky" or "don't do that and maybe you'll get lucky" both seem to fail and there's no combination of action or inaction that leads to success, do guys stop trying?

I'm afraid many husbands and wives just stop trying, which is sad.
Try changing your mindset from "trying" to just being loving and attractive. Your wife can sense if you're trying, or in other-words, giving her love in hopes you get some back. Her invitation to you to be sexually intimate is a gift she has to give similar to the gift you give her when you propose marriage. Just like you don't want to feel any pressure to progress the relationship or propose marriage, she doesn't want to feel pressure to be sexually intimate. The key, at least it was the key for me to start loving it again, was for my husband to give me regular holding- time, non-sexual physical and emotional intimacy, with reassurance that it didn't have to lead to sex. That reassurance that he would love me unconditionally, opened up my floodgate of desire. Unconditional love will help your wife feel an increased desire to give the gift on sexual love. The key is not letting on that you want it or expect it. Take all pressure off and continue to show lots of affection.

That's great advice, Sarah. I'm still trying to process it. There were several points in your comment which refer specifically to my question. For instance:

Do this:

give (me) regular holding- time, non-sexual physical and emotional intimacy, with reassurance that it didn't have to lead to sex.

Don't do this:

...she doesn't want to feel pressure to be sexually intimate.... The key is not letting on that you want it or expect it. Take all pressure off and continue to show lots of affection.

While I appreciate the perspective, it's from the viewpoint that all things done or not done are to get the wives to be interested in their husbands again. But what of husbands who have tried and failed so much that they no longer feel like trying any more? There's a quote from a movie I watched once that puts it nearly close to perfect:

"It takes every ounce of my courage to seduce you, and you're teaching me not to be brave."

I know men like to conquer, and real men fear no challenge. But there's something about the rejection of a woman that erodes his confidence over time.

Maybe my question doesn't have an answer, or at least not a one-size-fits-all answer.

THAT is the bottom line, isn't it? No one-size-fits-all answer.

iWriteStuff wrote:

Sarah wrote:

iWriteStuff wrote:I'm also curious if there are any husbands who just stop trying. When "Do this and maybe you'll get lucky" or "don't do that and maybe you'll get lucky" both seem to fail and there's no combination of action or inaction that leads to success, do guys stop trying?

I'm afraid many husbands and wives just stop trying, which is sad.
Try changing your mindset from "trying" to just being loving and attractive. Your wife can sense if you're trying, or in other-words, giving her love in hopes you get some back. Her invitation to you to be sexually intimate is a gift she has to give similar to the gift you give her when you propose marriage. Just like you don't want to feel any pressure to progress the relationship or propose marriage, she doesn't want to feel pressure to be sexually intimate. The key, at least it was the key for me to start loving it again, was for my husband to give me regular holding- time, non-sexual physical and emotional intimacy, with reassurance that it didn't have to lead to sex. That reassurance that he would love me unconditionally, opened up my floodgate of desire. Unconditional love will help your wife feel an increased desire to give the gift on sexual love. The key is not letting on that you want it or expect it. Take all pressure off and continue to show lots of affection.

That's great advice, Sarah. I'm still trying to process it. There were several points in your comment which refer specifically to my question. For instance:

Do this:

give (me) regular holding- time, non-sexual physical and emotional intimacy, with reassurance that it didn't have to lead to sex.

Don't do this:

...she doesn't want to feel pressure to be sexually intimate.... The key is not letting on that you want it or expect it. Take all pressure off and continue to show lots of affection.

While I appreciate the perspective, it's from the viewpoint that all things done or not done are to get the wives to be interested in their husbands again. But what of husbands who have tried and failed so much that they no longer feel like trying any more? There's a quote from a movie I watched once that puts it nearly close to perfect:

"It takes every ounce of my courage to seduce you, and you're teaching me not to be brave."

I know men like to conquer, and real men fear no challenge. But there's something about the rejection of a woman that erodes his confidence over time.

Maybe my question doesn't have an answer, or at least not a one-size-fits-all answer.

I hear you, and understand where you are coming from. My husband had given up on me enjoying it regularly because I just wasn't interested. I didn't feel close to him enough. (There were times that I did enjoy it, but it was just too infrequent.) And yes, there is no one-size fits all answer for all, but it doesn't hurt to get some different perspectives on this issue.

I personally feel that husbands should initiate affection and wives should be the ones to initiate sex in order for it to be most enjoyable for both. The problem is when husbands feel like affection leads to rejection! What the wife might not realize is that she needs to feel loved unconditionally first before she can fully give and receive sexual love. She assumes affection will help her feel that way. What she discovers is that anytime her husband initiates the affection she needs, he expects sex right afterwards, and she is not necessarily ready for that. Husbands think they need to initiate sex with affection, but often get rebuffed, feel rejected, and then show their disappointment in one way or another. Wife feels she isn't loved unconditionally. She feels like his disappointment means she always needs to give him sex every time he initiates affection, and so she tries that for awhile, but soon feels like all she is doing is pleasing her man without getting any satisfaction out of it, and starts to resent that feeling. If this happens too frequently, the love and trust will die for both. I feel for husbands who want to give up because, like you've said, you've felt rejection so many times, it has traumatized you, and you don't have a desire to show a lot of affection anymore because your experience tells you that affection leads to rejection. Your wife doesn't want to initiate affection because she knows you take it as a signal she might want sex, and she doesn't necessarily want that. So both of you are stuck.

The answer we were able to come up with was that the husband has to look at the wife's disinterest in sex not as rejection (because to her sexual desire has nothing to do with how she thinks of you as a person) and look at her disinterest as an opportunity for you to build her trust in you. She physically and psychologically cannot become aroused without feeling some kind of intimate connection with you first. She also cannot feel pressured into it or it becomes more of an obligation. So show her regular affection, but reassure her that it doesn't have to lead to sex. The more times she is able to express disinterest and have it not bother you, the more she will trust you and feel loved unconditionally. Holding-time works great because she really loves feeling physically close without pressure. You just have to train yourself to do it knowing that embracing won't always to lead to sex. It doesn't have to be long, just a few minutes a night, especially if you're both too exhausted to stay up. But the more times you can show her this, the more relaxed she will be and the more the holding-time WILL lead to sexual intimacy. Just give it a try and show her affection until she starts signaling with her kisses or touches that she's ready for more.

"03. Moonsign and sexuality A moonsign really has to do with the emotional state of a person...."
https://aestrotex.wordpress.com/maantek ... sualiteit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sexual intimacy "moon sign"
http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UTF ... %20sign%22" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:-B

^^^I gotta say, whether or not one actually believes in the cosmic powers of astrology, studying its concepts still really opens your awareness and understanding of psychology.

For the record, I'm personally inclined to believe there is indeed very much something to astrology, inasmuch as the system is without error.