LDS Freedom Forum

I found this very shocking. In a time when we as saints are to avoid the anti-mormon deception, our leaders are using the same tactics as our attackers they so fervently despise.

Has god given the apostles authority to judge others on their relationship with the savior?

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7051576

I think the same thing could be said about both the lds and Catholic Church.

If you (think) your gods chosen church. You are no longer looking at how you are falling short of that description that God once gave. Or currently still does.

Pride sneaks up on the best of us. It doesn't matter how good your intentions are. If you are not right in what you do. Your not right.

Elder ballards comment. Although well intended. Might be right in theory. And it may be completely wrong.
There may be people who are catholic who have come to know God and Christ and the Holy Ghost.
There are many lds most in fact according to D&c 121 33-40. including many good honest men who are very honorable. According to D&c 75:76
Who don't know God. Christ and the Holy Ghost as well as they (think) they do.
D&c112 23-26 says those members will be the first to be cleansed. Even befor members of other churches are.
Pretty humbleing if you ask me.

First, this clip is taken out of context. What is the occasion, how does this 30 second clip fit into the overall narrative or presentation, etc.

Second, all Elder Ballard is saying in this clip is that the Catholic concept of the "Trinity" founded in the Nicene Creed is false. That was the first great truth taught to Joseph Smith when God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ appeared to him in the grove as two separate and distinct beings. It is one of the cornerstones of the restoration and if we can't boldly proclaim it how are we supposed to share it with all of our Father's children who want to know the truth?

They don't want to know the truth.
They want to be told what they know is right. Even if it isn't.

That was said to our church in conference by Ezra Taft benson.
Fits both Us and the Catholics I would say.

The clip with Elder Ballard shows that he is anti-Catholic in just the same way this video shows that President Monson is a rocker....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDA5jpqk3g0

Sandinista wrote:First, this clip is taken out of context. What is the occasion, how does this 30 second clip fit into the overall narrative or presentation, etc.

Second, all Elder Ballard is saying in this clip is that the Catholic concept of the "Trinity" founded in the Nicene Creed is false. That was the first great truth taught to Joseph Smith when God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ appeared to him in the grove as two separate and distinct beings. It is one of the cornerstones of the restoration and if we can't boldly proclaim it how are we supposed to share it with all of our Father's children who want to know the truth?

You're welcome to watch the full speech on You Tube. These comments start at the 59 minute mark. After watching the whole thing, I can verify it wasn't taken out of context.

You're second point doesn't address the issue. Elder Ballard is free to disagree with any teaching of any religion. Judging another's relationship with Jesus Christ is something I don't think he has the authority to do.

“Let me say that we appreciate the truth in all churches and the good which they do. We say to the people, in effect, you bring with you all the good that you have, and then let us see if we can add to it. That is the spirit of this work. That is the essence of our missionary service.” - Pres. Gordon B Hinckley

Elder Ballard is referring to the "mystery" associated with the Trinity doctrine that comes from the Nicene, Athanasian and other creeds.

How has a admitted doctrine of not knowing God become knowing God?

If Catholics knew God then they would know His Church, His prophets and apostles, His Temple, and His covenants.

A lot of the popes led lifestyles than would have made Aliester Crowley blush.

Truth is truth. There is nothing shocking at all in this clip even when taken out of context. This is truth delivered in a reverent manner by a man of authority.

AgaetisTakk wrote:I found this very shocking. In a time when we as saints are to avoid the anti-mormon deception, our leaders are using the same tactics as our attackers they so fervently despise.

Has god given the apostles authority to judge others on their relationship with the savior?

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7051576

AgaetisTakk wrote:I found this very shocking. In a time when we as saints are to avoid the anti-mormon deception, our leaders are using the same tactics as our attackers they so fervently despise.

Has god given the apostles authority to judge others on their relationship with the savior?

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7051576

I just watched the clip. It isn't shocking at all. He is simply stating that the Catholics have an incorrect understanding of the Trinity. Which is true.

The fact that you found this shocking says much more about you than it says anything about his comments.

That you extrapolate his comments to say he is judging others on their relationship with Christ says even more.

You are seeing what you want to see here.

Put your selfs in their shoes. Your a good person. You try to dedicate your life to be a good person. To be kind to your neighbors. Give to the poor. Live a good life.
To their knowledge they are good people going to heaven.

And you are told by someone from another religion that you are wrong in your thinking and don't even know God or Jesus the Holy Ghost.

Would it make you upset??

It would me a few years back in my understanding. And I'm sure it does them. As it would with the majority of lds who still don't know God Jesus and the Holy Ghost even anywhere near as much as they (think) they do.

Criticism never bothered me. If it did, I would have had to give up long ago, because no matter who you are nor what you do, someone will always be out there to criticize you.
So long long ago I gave up on being bothered by that.
I think probably lds get more flak than any group.
dc

Put your selfs in their shoes. Your a good person. You try to dedicate your life to be a good person. To be kind to your neighbors. Give to the poor. Live a good life. To their knowledge they are good people going to heaven. And you are told by someone from another religion that you are wrong in your thinking and don't even know God or Jesus the Holy Ghost. Would it make you upset??

Yes, I can understand that the statement would upset Catholics. But how do you wake someone up who is asleep and deceived. I don't fault Elder Ballard for speaking the truth. Yes, it was a bold thing to say.

Other religions upset LDS by saying we are occult, or a cult, or we worship another Jesus, or our baptism is not valid, etc.

The nasty comments to the video on utube where revealing as to the kind of "Christians" who were offended.

davedan wrote:

Put your selfs in their shoes. Your a good person. You try to dedicate your life to be a good person. To be kind to your neighbors. Give to the poor. Live a good life. To their knowledge they are good people going to heaven. And you are told by someone from another religion that you are wrong in your thinking and don't even know God or Jesus the Holy Ghost. Would it make you upset??

Yes, I can understand that the statement would upset Catholics. But how do you wake someone up who is asleep and deceived. I don't fault Elder Ballard for speaking the truth. Yes, it was a bold thing to say.

Other religions upset LDS by saying we are occult, or a cult, or we worship another Jesus, or our baptism is not valid, etc.

How. By being so humble. That like Christ people who were in his presents were in awe. Groups of people would follow him around to be in that presents of true humility.

Have you ever met anyone that you felt in awe by there presence??

We should be like the ocean it puts itself below everything else and so everything flow unto it.

Elizabeth wrote:The nasty comments to the video on utube where revealing as to the kind of "Christians" who were offended.

Don't take it the wrong way. Or become offended.

Judging other for their judgements is equally judgemental.it also places gods judgements on you.

One has to be so careful and on guard all the time and every moment... it is an exhausting life.

Ezra wrote:

Elizabeth wrote:The nasty comments to the video on utube where revealing as to the kind of "Christians" who were offended.

Don't take it the wrong way. Or become offended.

Judging other for their judgements is equally judgemental.it also places gods judgements on you.

Elizabeth wrote:One has to be so careful and on guard all the time and every moment... it is an exhausting life.

Ezra wrote:

Elizabeth wrote:The nasty comments to the video on utube where revealing as to the kind of "Christians" who were offended.

Don't take it the wrong way. Or become offended.

Judging other for their judgements is equally judgemental.it also places gods judgements on you.

Yes it can be.
I was at a Point of wanting to rip out my hair and learned a new lesson. Presents.

Being in the moment vs in your head. Exsperiancing the moment. Stopping to smell the flowers so to speak.

Happens by keeping an active part of your brain on the feelings inside your chests. Your breathing or the feeling of breathing.
By being present your not judging others. You feel the spirit way more. You are much kinder. Your not focused on the past or thinking of the future. You are there in each moment. Being active at living vs wasting your life in the past or future where you have no power and nothing happens.
Now is the only time we have to grow. To better ourselfs and others.
Once it becomes a habit it be present. Being judgmental is something you can beat.

I didn't find anything wrong with what Elder Ballard said. It's nothing previous leaders and apostles haven't said in days gone. We believe that our church has the fullness of the gospel and there's nothing wrong with stating that with boldness.

I personally didn't like the part in Elder Ballard's talk though when he said singles should get married regardless of their ability to afford it. That is very reckless especially these days when we've been also counseled by modern day prophets to do anything we can to stay out of debt as debt is the major issue of this generation. I know there is a big push this year by the apostles first with Elder Holland in the spring, then Elder Hales at October Conference and now Elder Ballard in this talk to get more singles married but singles can't all get married and then have to rely on the church and state for welfare support.

Sunain wrote:I didn't find anything wrong with what Elder Ballard said. It's nothing previous leaders and apostles haven't said in days gone. We believe that our church has the fullness of the gospel and there's nothing wrong with stating that with boldness.

I personally didn't like the part in Elder Ballard's talk though when he said singles should get married regardless of their ability to afford it. That is very reckless especially these days when we've been also counseled by modern day prophets to do anything we can to stay out of debt as debt is the major issue of this generation. I know there is a big push this year by the apostles first with Elder Holland in the spring, then Elder Hales at October Conference and now Elder Ballard in this talk to get more singles married but singles can't all get married and then have to rely on the church and state for welfare support.

That only proves that people are living outside there means.

My wife and I lived in a yurt for 4 years while we saved up. Bought a house on 20 acres in cash with saving for 4 years and living in a glorified tent.

It's not hard to do as we are asked if we are not living worldly.

Until children arrive, it is cheaper to be married than for two to be living as singles.

Elizabeth wrote:Until children arrive, it is cheaper to be married than for two to be living as singles.

We had our first after being married for 2 years.

We just had our 3rd. Born at home. Cost 70$

My wife hated the hospital experience for the first 2.

Ezra wrote: How. By being so humble. That like Christ people who were in his presents were in awe. Groups of people would follow him around to be in that presents of true humility.

Have you ever met anyone that you felt in awe by there presence??

We should be like the ocean it puts itself below everything else and so everything flow unto it.

1. Most Jews thought Christ was supremely arrogant declaring that He was the Messiah and the Son of God. But, it wasn't arrogance, because it was true. Similarly, Elder Ballard's statement while hard to hear, is not insensitive or intolerant only because it is also true.

2. I'm sure there are some very humble Buddhist monks. I would like to emulate their humility, but I am not going to become Buddhist.

3. Christ said that many will say Lord, Lord and Christ will confess that he did not know them because they did not DO the will of the Father. These people will be thinking that they had a relationship with the Savior. Wouldn't you like to know if you were among these persons?

4. I'd like Christ to tell me NOW via His Apostle here in mortality while I still have time to do something about it then hear Christ say those words to me at the final judgement when its everlastingly too late.

Why have a middle man?? Follow the prophet and ask as Joseph smith did. And you shall receive. Your personal relationship Christ is yours alone.

How can you know someone through someone else telling you what they are like?
As you said many will say lord and he will be who are you???

AgaetisTakk wrote:I found this very shocking. In a time when we as saints are to avoid the anti-mormon deception, our leaders are using the same tactics as our attackers they so fervently despise.

Has god given the apostles authority to judge others on their relationship with the savior?

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7051576

If that's shocking to you, you best not read this-

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”