LDS Freedom Forum

Warning: this thread may contain what appears like complaining.

Over the course of the last month, my little family and I have had some pretty tall waves hit our tiny boat. At the beginning of the month, my wife miscarried. We were devastated. Then, two weeks later, our puppy escaped our fenced in back yard. We eventually caught up with her moments before she was hit by a car and died in the back seat of my car minutes later. This week, my car has broken down twice, today leaving me stranded in the middle of a rain storm halfway between work and home on the busiest day of the month for my accounting team.

I'm kinda at the breaking point at the moment. Is there a point where enough is enough? I've caught myself wondering more and more whether I've done something to anger God and thus merit punishment or whether there's some greater purpose in getting slammed week after week with tragedy.

Anybody else ever had a month like this? And how do you reconcile that with the fact that God loves His children?

Again, my apologies for complaining.

You are experiencing what is known as Deuteronomic doctrine, otherwise known as the Prosperity Gospel.

This is where we tend to believe that if we are living right, God will bless us, and also the corollary that if we are experiencing trials, then we must have displeased God. Although the Church doesn't specifically teach this, it's often implied, especially when the Book of Mormon says that the righteous will prosper in the land.

Check out what the opposing curse is to prospering in the land. It's not always trials or famine, but being cut off from the presence of the Lord. It doesn't usually have anything to do with money, or jobs, or health. You are prospering if you have the Lord in your life. You are cursed if you don't.

I believe the Lord will give some people trials in order to give them an opportunity to turn to Him more completely. It seems that scripture agrees with me

Helaman 12:1-3

1 And thus we can behold how false, and also the unsteadiness of the hearts of the children of men; yea, we can see that the Lord in his great infinite goodness doth bless and prosper those who put their trust in him.

2 Yea, and we may see at the very time when he doth prosper his people, yea, in the increase of their fields, their flocks and their herds, and in gold, and in silver, and in all manner of precious things of every kind and art; sparing their lives, and delivering them out of the hands of their enemies; softening the hearts of their enemies that they should not declare wars against them; yea, and in fine, doing all things for the welfare and happiness of his people; yea, then is the time that they do harden their hearts, and do forget the Lord their God, and do trample under their feet the Holy One—yea, and this because of their ease, and their exceedingly great prosperity.

3 And thus we see that except the Lord doth chasten his people with many afflictions, yea, except he doth visit them with death and with terror, and with famine and with all manner of pestilence, they will not remember him.

iWriteStuff wrote:Warning: this thread may contain what appears like complaining.

Over the course of the last month, my little family and I have had some pretty tall waves hit our tiny boat. At the beginning of the month, my wife miscarried. We were devastated. Then, two weeks later, our puppy escaped our fenced in back yard. We eventually caught up with her moments before she was hit by a car and died in the back seat of my car minutes later. This week, my car has broken down twice, today leaving me stranded in the middle of a rain storm halfway between work and home on the busiest day of the month for my accounting team.

I'm kinda at the breaking point at the moment. Is there a point where enough is enough? I've caught myself wondering more and more whether I've done something to anger God and thus merit punishment or whether there's some greater purpose in getting slammed week after week with tragedy.

Anybody else ever had a month like this? And how do you reconcile that with the fact that God loves His children?

Again, my apologies for complaining.

Honestly, times like this are the worst. It's incredibly frustrating. There is one great thing that comes from this though. These burdens are enough to break you down little by little until you're hanging by a thread. Why is this good? Because the more you get ground down, the more likely you are to turn to God and cry out for mercy and help. The more broken down you are, the more urgent your cry for help is.

The first time I experienced a baptism of fire was during one of these times. There are many things that happened to bring me to this point, so I'll leave out the details.. but I couldn't handle it anymore. I fell onto my bed and wept like a little child. I couldn't stop. I eventually did the only thing left. I cried unto God, begging him for the same thing over and over. Looking back, I probably look pathetic, but I didn't care. The rest is history. The moment that followed changed my life forever. I'm actually grateful for how low those things brought me. It was the worst 10 month period of my life. Without it though, I don't know if I ever would have been compelled to humble myself that much and be so broken and contrite that God would bless me with such a powerful experience.

Take from this story what you will. I will pray for you

I can't tell you how much is too much, but I can tell you this. I'm in my "sixth decade" of life and recently I was taught a very interesting, and valuable, lesson. For some reason over several weeks I'd been pondering my life; the good things, the bad things, the challenges, and the successes. As with most people I've had all of them at different times. But then one day as I was just almost absently sorting through my thoughts and memories I was struck with the thought that "my life had been exactly what I needed." I was really brought up short by this, but realized that "yes" it was. With the wisdom of myself gained from living with myself for 60+ years, looking back at it if I had to design a life, complete with challenges, temptations, trials and successes, specifically for me to learn what, given my personality, strengths, and weaknesses, I needed to learn to be prepared to return to our Father in Heaven I could not have put together a more perfect, personalized plan! As I looked back on it every thing that has happened to me that I can remember making any sort of impact, either for the good or the bad, has been custom tailored for my benefit. And much better than I could have planned it BTW. The realization that our Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, knows each of us so intimately to have given us exactly what we need in order to reach our full potential was a sudden, and sobering, thought. What a glorious plan was put in place for us!

So, though it probably won't make your current situation any less stressful, I can promise you that you are experiencing and learning exactly what your Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ want you to learn. With that knowledge embrace the challenge or trial for what you can gain from it, not for how painful or difficult it is.

Lizzy60 wrote:You are experiencing what is known as Deuteronomic doctrine, otherwise known as the Prosperity Gospel.

This is where we tend to believe that if we are living right, God will bless us, and also the corollary that if we are experiencing trials, then we must have displeased God. Although the Church doesn't specifically teach this, it's often implied, especially when the Book of Mormon says that the righteous will prosper in the land.

Check out what the opposing curse is to prospering in the land. It's not always trials or famine, but being cut off from the presence of the Lord. It doesn't usually have anything to do with money, or jobs, or health. You are prospering if you have the Lord in your life. You are cursed if you don't.

I believe the Lord will give some people trials in order to give them an opportunity to turn to Him more completely. It seems that scripture agrees with me

Helaman 12:1-3

1 And thus we can behold how false, and also the unsteadiness of the hearts of the children of men; yea, we can see that the Lord in his great infinite goodness doth bless and prosper those who put their trust in him.

2 Yea, and we may see at the very time when he doth prosper his people, yea, in the increase of their fields, their flocks and their herds, and in gold, and in silver, and in all manner of precious things of every kind and art; sparing their lives, and delivering them out of the hands of their enemies; softening the hearts of their enemies that they should not declare wars against them; yea, and in fine, doing all things for the welfare and happiness of his people; yea, then is the time that they do harden their hearts, and do forget the Lord their God, and do trample under their feet the Holy One—yea, and this because of their ease, and their exceedingly great prosperity.

3 And thus we see that except the Lord doth chasten his people with many afflictions, yea, except he doth visit them with death and with terror, and with famine and with all manner of pestilence, they will not remember him.

Thanks for the thoughtful response! I do agree that there's a softening taking place - my head, as it keeps getting punched! :((

Honestly, I'm not of the sort to believe in the prosperity gospel. The hits that are coming have nothing to do with money or prosperity as the world defines it. If it was, I would have mentioned how the miscarriage was from an IVF round we did that cost us nearly $20k. As I told my wife, I don't care about the money. But I do wonder why we weren't allowed to have and raise those babies.

As per the dog, what the heck was that all about? Why did my dog have to get hit by a car and die in my arms? And why did that have to happen while we were still recovering emotionally from a miscarriage? The car stuff is just frustrating, but losing babies and having a furry family member taken away in the space of two weeks seems.... honestly, kinda like we're being kicked while we're down. The biggest question I'm asking in my prayers lately is "Why?" and "When will the blessings come?"

Long story short, I might need a tear duct replacement therapy by the time this month is over if it keeps going this way. Is it bad to want to pray for a break?

An excellent paper by a BYU professor on the subject.

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/sperry-sym ... hamic-test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you are 60+ years old, you are technically in your 7th decade. I'm just a ray of sunshine, aren't I?

0-10 first decade
10=20 2nd
20-30 3rd
30-40 4th
40-50 5th
50-60 6th
60-70 7th

Have a nice day!

iWriteStuff wrote:Thanks for the thoughtful response! I do agree that there's a softening taking place - my head, as it keeps getting punched! :((

Honestly, I'm not of the sort to believe in the prosperity gospel. The hits that are coming have nothing to do with money or prosperity as the world defines it. If it was, I would have mentioned how the miscarriage was from an IVF round we did that cost us nearly $20k. As I told my wife, I don't care about the money. But I do wonder why we weren't allowed to have and raise those babies.

As per the dog, what the heck was that all about? Why did my dog have to get hit by a car and die in my arms? And why did that have to happen while we were still recovering emotionally from a miscarriage? The car stuff is just frustrating, but losing babies and having a furry family member taken away in the space of two weeks seems.... honestly, kinda like we're being kicked while we're down. The biggest question I'm asking in my prayers lately is "Why?" and "When will the blessings come?"

Long story short, I might need a tear duct replacement therapy by the time this month is over if it keeps going this way. Is it bad to want to pray for a break?

Hi iWriteStuff. I'm sorry that you are feeling so low.

I have shared that I have been sexually abused as a child on this forum before. I share this because I want to show people that Jesus Christ can overcome even great abuse. My abusers were my mothers and my fathers and even strangers. I have forgiven my mothers and my fathers and even the strangers. I have wondered why do this to me, Father? Yes, I have thought that. Much of my life I have been blind to what I do not or did not have and perhaps this is good because my heart may not be able to bear it otherwise. However, I know Jesus Christ lives. I know God lives and He is my Father. He placed me in to His vineyard precisely where He knew I would grow best and had best opportunity. My sufferring has lead me to Christ and for this I cannot complain!

I love God and His Son Jesus Christ forever for saving me from death and hell.

-Finrock

2EstablishZion wrote:If you are 60+ years old, you are technically in your 7th decade. I'm just a ray of sunshine, aren't I?

0-10 first decade
10=20 2nd
20-30 3rd
30-40 4th
40-50 5th
50-60 6th
60-70 7th

Have a nice day!

Well gee thanks for that!

Does it help that I feel like I'm in my 5th decade!

I remember a mid aged lady who once said "I have finally realized that maybe God just doesn't intend for me to have much money."
I have no children and I'm into my 7th decade. I know that "maybe God never intended me to have children."
These are all things we must accept. Love and acceptance are the key.
I think also in hard times we must remember the many blessings that we do have.
I know it doesn't make it any easier for you, but we all go thru' these things. I'm going thru' what may be a fatal one at this time myself.
But one way or another I like what Tavis Smiley says; "Keep the Faith".
dc

David13 wrote:I remember a mid aged lady who once said "I have finally realized that maybe God just doesn't intend for me to have much money."
I have no children and I'm into my 7th decade. I know that "maybe God never intended me to have children."
These are all things we must accept. Love and acceptance are the key.
I think also in hard times we must remember the many blessings that we do have.
I know it doesn't make it any easier for you, but we all go thru' these things. I'm going thru' what may be a fatal one at this time myself.
But one way or another I like what Tavis Smiley says; "Keep the Faith".
dc

Odd God would intend me to be a miserable human being ...
I already knew he intended me not to have money or a family or closeness with others...
That was made clear and why not everything I think about the almighty is positive.

Big and sincere virtual hugs for you and your wife, iWrite. I'm sorry you are suffering right now - it sounds very painful and my heart goes out to you.

As to your questions - yes, on the first one. 2005 was arguably the worst year of my life - if it could have gone wrong, it pretty much did - the whole, stinking year long. I still marvel that I lived to see January 1, 2006! Can't really add much more than what some others have said - and that article linked to above is well worth reading.

God isn't punishing you, that I firmly believe. And enduring doesn't mean just to put up with something till it's over. Godly enduring (to me anyway) means to bare our sorrows and trials with faith and hope and an eternal perspective - AND (this is the hardest part for me), with gratitude for what you DO have. Is it easy? HECK NO!! But if we do our best to try, we will come out on the other end much closer to God, more patient, more Christ-like, and with more empathy for others. Something else that has helped me when I feel down and kicked is to find someone who has it much worse than me (which is usually pretty easy to do, for all of us, I imagine) and go help them. Not only is that giving aid to someone who needs it, but it helps heal our own hearts, too. Again, I'm sorry for your losses, brother. Prayers for you and Sister iWrite.

iWriteStuff wrote:Again, my apologies for complaining.

If you can't complain to your friends, who can you complain to?

I was excommunicated when my wife and I were married. When the time came we were able to meet with a member of the Seventy to have my blessing restored so I could re-enter the temple and go through with my wife to be sealed, EVERYTHING in our lives started falling apart. We had trial upon trial upon trial. It's odd how all that stopped after we were sealed.

I know how hard these words can seem when you're in the midst of crises, but He truly won't give us more than we can handle. There is always a light a the end of a tunnel, and only part of the time is it the headlight of an oncoming train. Sometimes it actually is the Sun (or the Son, depending on the situation.)

Lizzy60 wrote:You are experiencing what is known as Deuteronomic doctrine, otherwise known as the Prosperity Gospel.

Im glad you said this Lizzy. To often the LDS culture (and others I am sure) treats events differently based on the presumption of righteousness or wickedness. If something challenging happens to a "righteous" person it is called a "trial". If something challenging happens to a "wicked" person it is treated as if its heavens way of calling one to repentance or giving their just reward. If something happens in a "righteous" persons life that makes things seem more convenient or enjoyable it is referred to as a blessing. If that same thing happens to a "wicked" person it is often assumed to be the result of that individuals vain ambitions and lack of charity.

I think what is more likely is that their is opposition in all things. Opposition doesn't necessarily need to be contention. Opposition can be balance or two opposites that are totally complementary. In our lives we experience a wave of "highs" and "lows". Only our perspective assigns the "good" or "bad". In actuality it is all part of the experience of connecting with God. Along that journey there is a whole range of things to gain experience in. While having those experiences are we able to remember God? When things are going "good", do we remember? When things are going "bad" do we remember?

I am sorry for your struggles IWS. You and your family will make it through this wave.

A few months ago, my wife was having a very severe depressive episode. So bad, in fact, that she stayed home from church and tried to kill herself while we were gone. We got through that, and then about a month later, she had another one. Fortunately, this time, before it got too bad, she got up the courage to ask for a priesthood blessing. In the blessing, I felt impressed to tell her that she would feel the healing power of God flow from my hands through her head and throughout her body. That actually happened just as it was said, and she was immediately healed from the depression. She said she felt more at peace in that moment than she had in longer than she could remember, even remarking that she felt like she was in the celestial room of the temple.

However, during the blessing, I also felt specifically prompted to tell her that this healing would only be temporary, but some day, God would heal her permanently. That day hasn't come yet.

The blessing was true--the healing was only temporary. And it was proven without a doubt that he indeed has the power to immediately and completely heal her. But why God is allowing it to continue is something I don't know. But I do know that everything he does is right, so there is a very good reason for it. I still don't know if I'm going to come home from work one day to find my wife hanging from the end of a rope. But this subject of suffering has been something I've been spending a lot of time thinking about lately.

I have a very good friend whose personal trials would be the ones about which many would say, "at least I don't have it as bad as that man!" The situation has been ongoing for over 10 years. However, I personally know that he has received some of the most amazing blessings in the midst of all his pain and suffering. He is not Joseph, but I am often reminded of Joseph when I think about what a good man this individual is, and how much he suffers. Joseph was tortured, reviled, cursed by both friend and foe, and yet we are not capable of comprehending the relationship he had with His Lord and Savior.

On a macro-level, Brigham said that he knew the Saints could be faithful amidst persecution, but he feared for the day when the membership as a whole became prosperous. As it says in the article I linked, prosperity and an easy life can be an Abrahamic test, one that we don't even realize is there, because our hearts are hard, while our lives are easy.

Continue to wish you peace and strength.

My firm belief is that God does not do these things to us, but allows us to experience trials for growth and learning.
You are being helped even now through your trials.
Experience has shown me that it truly is darkest just before the dawn!
Prayers and thoughts are with you.

Man, tough month. It saddens me to hear about your wife's miscarriage, the puppy and the car. For some reason when I read your post the first thing that popped into my mind was of Joseph Smith when he was incarcerated the Liberty Jail. I don't know the exact quote off the top of my head but I think the Lord taught him: that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good... or something like that.

It's my belief that when we endure trials, we are in a better position to offer empathy and support to others when they go through similar trials. Perhaps the Lord is preparing you.

Take care.

iWriteStuff wrote:Warning: this thread may contain what appears like complaining.

Over the course of the last month, my little family and I have had some pretty tall waves hit our tiny boat. At the beginning of the month, my wife miscarried. We were devastated. Then, two weeks later, our puppy escaped our fenced in back yard. We eventually caught up with her moments before she was hit by a car and died in the back seat of my car minutes later. This week, my car has broken down twice, today leaving me stranded in the middle of a rain storm halfway between work and home on the busiest day of the month for my accounting team.

I'm kinda at the breaking point at the moment. Is there a point where enough is enough? I've caught myself wondering more and more whether I've done something to anger God and thus merit punishment or whether there's some greater purpose in getting slammed week after week with tragedy.

Anybody else ever had a month like this? And how do you reconcile that with the fact that God loves His children?

Again, my apologies for complaining.

Sorry you're feeling low, brother IWS. However, if it's only been a month, count your blessings. Besides, dogs and cars are pretty easily replaced.

First let me say that I could feel your pain as you wrote what was going on. You absolutely are going thought so much. I completely agree with Stahura on this one. It is when you feel like you can take no more that we are the most humble and cry to The Lord like a child when he lifts us up. Then we are stronger for it. You gain an empathy for others that is impossible to have until you have been in their situation. Next time you have a friend that is going through a similar situation, you will be in a position to be the shoulder they need. You will be more qualified to be the hands of the Savior and provide comfort.

This recently happened a couple months ago when dealing with trying to raise my children in the gospel with my nonmember husband and inlaws who have (way too much) imput on my children. I was desperate for my struggling daughter to go to Girls camp. Grandpa threatened to cut the sports purse strings if she did. It was so unfair. I bawled like a baby and finally had nothing left than to cry out to the Lord to fix it. Several minutes later I was at complete peace. I was able to encourage my daughter to make her own decision and to not take my feelings or desires into consideration. I gave her several days and no pressure and she ultimately chose to go, and I honestly believe it was purely her decision. I am glad she did ,however, I really think I would have been completely fine if she chose to follow her grandpa as well. My pain over the issue was taken away.

That was kind of an immediate one. One that took years to come about began over foster care. I had a baby that I was asked to adopt taken away from me and given to someone else. It was heartbreaking for my whole family. Such an important decision was left to a lady sitting in an office who didn't care about me. I was devastated. I made every phone call I could, begged, pleaded, prayed, and prayed some more. He was taken away anyway and I was crushed. I felt like I was "called" to do foster care and didn't understand why I couldn't be blessed with keeping this one child. Fast forward about 4 years, a couple more heart breaks and 60-70 or so babies later I got the most pathetic baby you ever saw. He was the biggest mess health wise I had ever dealt with. He needed someone who was in the position to fight for him. Our whole family fell in love with this poor guy. Deeply in love. I got a blessing from my dad once during a visit and was promised the desires of my heart. I had to fight at every turn to keep this boy. (My house was too small) but I got to keep him. He is our gift. We are told often how lucky he is to have us.....that is so not the case. WE are lucky to have him and to have a front row seat to the miracles that happen in his life is a privilege. I often think on all that I might have missed out on if I had been allowed to keep that first little baby that I loved so much. I couldn't see it at the time just like you can't see it now.......it may take years to find your perspective or maybe you won't ever find it.

Hugs to you and your wife. I hope things start looking up soon.

iWriteStuff wrote:Warning: this thread may contain what appears like complaining.

If people do not seek support and counsel from their brothers and sisters all would often miss opportunities and blessings brought through charity.

iWriteStuff wrote:Over the course of the last month, my little family and I have had some pretty tall waves hit our tiny boat. At the beginning of the month, my wife miscarried. We were devastated. Then, two weeks later, our puppy escaped our fenced in back yard. We eventually caught up with her moments before she was hit by a car and died in the back seat of my car minutes later. This week, my car has broken down twice, today leaving me stranded in the middle of a rain storm halfway between work and home on the busiest day of the month for my accounting team.

Please ask yourself: are you worried about getting past these problems or is it that you are more concerned about the effects these circumstances are having on those around you? It may seem like a singular inclusive problem. However, I would offer that we often take on emotional turmoil we perceive in those around us as personal responsibility. If this occurs we often prevent ourselves from offering hope and guidance in the maximum capacity we are capable. If you feel confident you personally can make it past these difficult times draw upon those reasons and beliefs to help guide the counsel you offer and actions you take. Having faith and confidence is neither arrogant or uncaring.

iWriteStuff wrote:I'm kinda at the breaking point at the moment. Is there a point where enough is enough? I've caught myself wondering more and more whether I've done something to anger God and thus merit punishment or whether there's some greater purpose in getting slammed week after week with tragedy.

Anybody else ever had a month like this? And how do you reconcile that with the fact that God loves His children?

Yes, I have had many months like that. I feel for you and only wish I was there to give you a hug and be able to look you in the eye and tell you that you will make it through this.

Please do not take what I am about to write as negative in any manner. One of the first things I do these days is thank God that I have first world problems. I then think about all the garbage I see in the news of peoples struggles all over the world and remember my holier than thou thoughts on why those problems exist and how they should be handled. Then I say, time to take a little bit of my own medicine on how to act and react.

In a spiritual manner I really do remember Christ descending below all things, Joseph in Liberty jail with his questions and frustrations etc. I remember reading journals and diaries from my own families genealogical records and realize how little I have suffered. I have received more strength from those simple personal testimonies than I would have ever imagined.

I could write a great deal more but I hope it gives the idea. I also know that just because the answer exists now might not be the moment we are ready to act on it. In other words don't beat yourself up if your actions are not always perfect in response to difficult times. God Bless You.

I'm sorry all this is happening to you. I've been through many trials in my life--too many to count. I was born into tribulation. One thing I have learned is I get to choose how I am tempered. In other words, while the Lord holds me to the flame as all impurities burn off, I can choose to complain and feel sorry for myself or I can choose to praise God and thank Him for turning me into a masterpiece--in the same fashion He was turned into a masterpiece. D&C 122 comes to mind.

I'm so sorry for your struggles! Someone once told me that trials are a form of a compliment from the Lord, in that He's saying: Good job, you're doing awesome. You are ready to move up and progress more so now there will be some more intense trials to help you do just that.

I have 2 practical tips that have helped me:

1) with just getting through each day: at times in my life when each day felt unbearable, I would put a penny in my shoe, underneath my foot. Each time I felt the penny move in my shoe, I required myself to think something positive (a joke, something I'm grateful for, a personal compliment, etc). This helped me from becoming overwhelmed with depressing thoughts which can really determine how we experience our trials. It seems trivial, but when life is literally just horrible, and you feel you have no control over anything that is happening, at least you can control your thoughts and make what is inside a pleasant place to be.

2) 72hr kit
Something that may help your wife, which was done for me before. I was having a hard and long trial. A loved one carefully chose meaningful and special "gifts" for me and wrapped them up individually and put them all in a box. They gave me the box full of gifts and said "I know you're having a hard time and some days you will just not want to go on anymore. When you have your worst days, open a present." Now these gifts were nothing expensive, but they were sweet, made me smile, cheered me up. Sometimes they were just notes about happy and funny memories. That box of gifts was like an emotional 72hr kit for me. When I woke up each morning I would see the box of gifts and it was visual proof that someone loves me and that there are blessings coming, I had a whole box filled with "blessings" and I could get one whenever I wanted.

I believe Heavenly Father has emotional 72hr kits for us, too, but sometimes it's nice to have a more tangible one, as well.
You and your family are in my prayers.

Life is like a roller coaster, we have ups and we have downs, some of which are rather frightening.

The important thing is to enjoy the ride you paid for it.

God's grace is sufficient, it will all work out.

"Every day is a new day to a wise man"