LDS Freedom Forum

SO here's a hypothetical situation.

Lets say there's a man in North Korea, or some place in China that has never had the Gospel preached, and won't have any church members/missionaries for a long time, if ever. Lets say that he somehow hears about Jesus Christ and experiments. He cries unto God just like King Lamoni and has a wonderful experience and is born of God. Perhaps he even sees God like Lehi/Alma/Lamoni in a vision or speaks with an Angel afterwards. Perhaps he has a vision of the destruction of a local village.

Can he not share what he experienced with others in that area? Does he have to shut his mouth until the church is there(which may never be there) to lay their hands on his head and give him permission to share his experience and preach the Gospel of Christ?

He can't have a gathering in a plaza and preach Jesus Christ?

Excellent point! How do you think our global Church has grown? His Elect have been seeking Him throughout all dispensations. And been preaching as well before the LDS Church ever reached them. Oh, wait, these "elect" should probably be excommunicated because they did not receive an official calling from the Branch President in their area.

That has happened already. Those people were not excommunicated nor were they disciplined. No need for sarcasm. If someone preaches what is not express doctrine of the church, or contrary to the doctrine of the church, in a manner which implies, or directly saying, that it is endorsed by the church or is part of the doctrine of the church or that he/she is doing it in the name of the church, then the church does have both the right and the duty to act in defense of the integrity and faith of the church, whatever that action may be. A person converted and who has a testimony of the Lord, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, His church and His servants, but is not baptized nor has been ordained, can do much good for the spreading of the Gospel in that part of the land.

Many members disagree with this. I don't understand how, but they do.

God has many servants, and I imagine many or most aren't even in this Church. He will use whatever he can to perform his work.

Of course he can share, preach and prophesy without "permission". Anyone that says otherwise is, dare I say it, an anti-Christ.

"if ye have desires to serve God ye are called to the work" (D&C 4:3)

The 1987 church film How Rare a Possession features the story of Vincenzo Di Francesca, a Methodist minister who discovered a copy of the book of Mormon with an unreadable cover and missing the first several pages. He taught from the Book of Mormon in his sermons until he was censured and excommunicated from his church.

Twenty years after finding that incomplete book, he accidentally found the word Mormon in a dictionary, and wrote President Heber J Grant to describe his story and request baptism. He was sent a copy of the Book of Mormon in Italian but, between wars and mail delays, he wasn't baptized for another 21 years.

Brother Di Francesca is just one of many examples of people who preach the gospel without a specific calling and setting apart, without priesthood authority, and even without baptism by proper authority.

His part of How Rare a Possession is available streaming at: https://youtu.be/5rZNcTkD__o?t=22m46s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This happens all the time. It is my experience that the Lord calls and gives help to people outside the LDS umbrella to do His work. What do you think translated beings are busy doing?

The LDS church is a part of His kingdom (I know some pride and arrogance will make people question that), but the Lord actually loves people more than most people realize, and he works to lay the foundation where the church cannot go, or work to have good people "stand" in places with (brace yourself) real revelation, working with real "angels", and when needed real authority (doesn't always mean "keys"), where the LDS church cannot reach politically or culturally.

Stahura wrote:SO here's a hypothetical situation.

Lets say there's a man in North Korea, or some place in China that has never had the Gospel preached, and won't have any church members/missionaries for a long time, if ever. Lets say that he somehow hears about Jesus Christ and experiments. He cries unto God just like King Lamoni and has a wonderful experience and is born of God. Perhaps he even sees God like Lehi/Alma/Lamoni in a vision or speaks with an Angel afterwards. Perhaps he has a vision of the destruction of a local village.

Can he not share what he experienced with others in that area? Does he have to shut his mouth until the church is there(which may never be there) to lay their hands on his head and give him permission to share his experience and preach the Gospel of Christ?

He can't have a gathering in a plaza and preach Jesus Christ?

Well, my first thought is that if he wants to preach Christ in a North Korean plaza, he better be more like Alma or Lehi than Lamoni. In short, take what flock you can and run for the frickin' hills! The Kim family is God up there, and they don't like competition.

Pretty sure Joseph Smith did a lot of good work before there was a church hierarchy to vote in common consent. But maybe that's the wrong parallel to use....

iWriteStuff wrote:

Stahura wrote:SO here's a hypothetical situation.

Lets say there's a man in North Korea, or some place in China that has never had the Gospel preached, and won't have any church members/missionaries for a long time, if ever. Lets say that he somehow hears about Jesus Christ and experiments. He cries unto God just like King Lamoni and has a wonderful experience and is born of God. Perhaps he even sees God like Lehi/Alma/Lamoni in a vision or speaks with an Angel afterwards. Perhaps he has a vision of the destruction of a local village.

Can he not share what he experienced with others in that area? Does he have to shut his mouth until the church is there(which may never be there) to lay their hands on his head and give him permission to share his experience and preach the Gospel of Christ?

He can't have a gathering in a plaza and preach Jesus Christ?

Well, my first thought is that if he wants to preach Christ in a North Korean plaza, he better be more like Alma or Lehi than Lamoni. In short, take what flock you can and run for the frickin' hills! The Kim family is God up there, and they don't like competition.

Pretty sure Joseph Smith did a lot of good work before there was a church hierarchy to vote in common consent. But maybe that's the wrong parallel to use....

Good point. I think it's good to remember examples like this. Things aren't as black and white as we like to think.

Stahura wrote:SO here's a hypothetical situation.

Lets say there's a man in North Korea, or some place in China that has never had the Gospel preached, and won't have any church members/missionaries for a long time, if ever. Lets say that he somehow hears about Jesus Christ and experiments. He cries unto God just like King Lamoni and has a wonderful experience and is born of God. Perhaps he even sees God like Lehi/Alma/Lamoni in a vision or speaks with an Angel afterwards. Perhaps he has a vision of the destruction of a local village.

Can he not share what he experienced with others in that area? Does he have to shut his mouth until the church is there(which may never be there) to lay their hands on his head and give him permission to share his experience and preach the Gospel of Christ?

He can't have a gathering in a plaza and preach Jesus Christ?

Look at the church's video about African pioneers. More than one person read the Book of Mormon or had a dream, or a vision, and desired baptism; however, there were no missionaries or church organization in Africa then. They taught their neighbors, organized congregations, and preached the gospel. When the organized church did show up, they gladly accepted the authority of the priesthood, and were baptized. Of course the Lord opens the way sometimes way ahead of what the organized church is able to deal with!

Ordination is just required to do specific Priesthood ordinances. Preaching is not one of them. Even a 7 year old can preach the gospel.