LDS Freedom Forum

In general, LDS people have a hang up about money. I think some of it comes from the scriptures that "money is the root of all evil", which isn't what is being said in scripture at all. the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. But we put so much into our belief systems, not only from the religious point of view, but from the cultural upbringing from early pioneers, that had to "work hard", and "suffer". Its much like the jewish complex to "suffer", LDS peoples have a problem with money. So we pass this onto our children, and their kids.

So when we think about Priestcraft, we bundle all that together. We turn a "blind eye" to General Authorities who receive a salary, and most LDS members don't even know about that, let alone that nobody is allowed to talk about it. These amounts are secured behind NDA's, and the privacy around such things could be disturbing in and of itself, but LDS members just trust that the prophet is doing the right thing, and likely is.

We don't think about long list of LDS leader authors, business ventures etc., for the same reason. And honestly I'm okay with all that. I'm glad the church is putting and using money wisely, and I'm glad that LDS authors are paid for their time. I don't think any of these things are priestcraft at all.

But I also apply the same rules to anybody else. Unfortunately, money is the currency of service and good exchange, in the world we live. If I pay for a spiritually gifted doctor, I don't tell him to NOT PRAY, or use his spiritual gifts as they dovetail with his skills, because he and I are LDS. As a MHC, if I have a session with a client who is LDS, I don't say, we'll we're both Mormon, so let me do this for free, I don't want to "rip you off". I certainly don't say, by the way, I left the Spirit in the other room, because I'm going to charge you money for this session.

There IS a point where priestcraft enters in., and it has NOTHING to do with money. It has to do with corruption, lies, arrogance, pride, and using a spiritual thing as a part of all that. And I'll say it this way, you don't need to be a LDS GA to find safety behind books, speaking events, and LDS living wage salaries. Non GAs can earn money from books, speaking engagements and can earn salaries from their vocation EVEN when they use the Lord and the Spirit with it. And that's okay.

Having said all that, I know many times that doctors, councilors, and other professionals DO give free service, because it's the Christlike thing to do. And so do I.

brianj wrote:

samizdat wrote:Priestcraft: Setting yourself up as a light to be followed by the masses, looking for glamour and popularity.

Ezra wrote:Priestcraft is not being payed to teach the "gospel". As the gospel is truth light And good. Priestcraft is the teaching of a false gospel. Or mixing truth with lie or the learnings of men and calling it all truth.

I don't know where either of you get this from. Samizdat is closest to the definition in 2 Nephi 26:29, which states priestcraft is setting yourself up as a light to get gain. Under this definition somebody could be teaching nothing but truth but committing priestcraft.

Synonyms of craft include activity, occupation, profession, work, and line of work. Therefore, with a modern definition we could conclude that priestcraft is the occupation of being a priest.

I meant preistcraft is not only being payed to preach the gospel.

Still doesn't public schools set themselfs up as a light unto the world and get gain????

Their are 2 kinds of priestcraft, enforced, being the most destructive:

12 But Alma said unto him: Behold, this is the first time that priestcraft has been introduced among this people. And behold, thou art not only guilty of priestcraft, but hast endeavored to enforce it by the sword; and were priestcraft to be enforced among this people it would prove their entire destruction.

What Lehi saw in his dream, what King Noah did in those great and spacious buildings and what Amulon sold the Lamanites and what Nehor sold the Nephites was enforced priestcraft.

Enforced priestcraft leads to doctorcraft, lawyercraft and pretty soon even the Judges, teachers and plumbers are after the same order... and no one can feed themselves without government certification and licence. A government monopoly that bans the free market from participating in commerce.

Alam said: "This is the first time enforced priestcraft has been introduced among this people"
....suggesting the Nephites did just fine without public education for their first 500 years.

Enforced priestcraft like forced charity, has to be related to government guns in one form or another.

Writing a book or teaching a class, be it piano or religion and selling it.... as long as the buying public has the right to refuse to finance such, is not enforced priestcraft, but voluntary in nature. It is a win win transaction for the buyer and seller.

Satan's gospel of force could not be preached to the ends of world without Public Education.

The converted children of Ammon buried their weapons of war, yanked their children out of the clutches of the public schools and taught them themselves. The Lamanite teachers union of Amulon and the Nephite teachers of Nehor were not impressed and came upon those converts with swords...

The prophet and founder of public education in the US, Horrace Mann loaded and bayoneted the guns of the Massachusetts Militia in 1852 to gather the children from their parents...that is why it is called Enforced Priestcraft.

Today's school textbooks however may very well be termed enforced priestcraft because of the force or compulsion involved.

Melissa wrote:

Stahura wrote:I frequently see people condemn Julie Rowe/Spencer(Pontius family)/Hector/anybody else for selling their Gospel related books for money. The problem here is that this can very well be priestcraft, preaching the Gospel for money.

At the same time, they praise General Authorities for their books. These men also sell their books for profit.

Nobody knows what Julie/Spencer(Pontius family)/Hector does with their money. For all you know, they donate it all to the homeless, or the the missionary fund.

Nobody also knows what is done with the profits from the books sold by General Authorities, everybody assumes it all goes to their stipend or the missionary fund. The church can do whatever it pleases with the money it has, and it has this in text on tithing slips.

Either way, I have seen many times the claim " They are servants of the Lord, so it's different, they are anointed servants it's different"

How is it different? Are General Authorites exempt from Priestcraft because of their titles?

How is it possible to see 2 people that do the exact same thing, and accuse one of priestcraft and praise the other?

Disclaimer* I do not give any opinion. I do not claim that anyone here commits priestcraft, that anyone is right or wrong. I don't claim that Thomas Monson made a mistake or that Julie Rowe is a prophet.

I speak only of this principle and the unfair treatment of those who aren't at the top of a hierarchy.

What about the selling of scriptures?

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Ezra wrote:

brianj wrote:

samizdat wrote:Priestcraft: Setting yourself up as a light to be followed by the masses, looking for glamour and popularity.

Ezra wrote:Priestcraft is not being payed to teach the "gospel". As the gospel is truth light And good. Priestcraft is the teaching of a false gospel. Or mixing truth with lie or the learnings of men and calling it all truth.

I don't know where either of you get this from. Samizdat is closest to the definition in 2 Nephi 26:29, which states priestcraft is setting yourself up as a light to get gain. Under this definition somebody could be teaching nothing but truth but committing priestcraft.

Synonyms of craft include activity, occupation, profession, work, and line of work. Therefore, with a modern definition we could conclude that priestcraft is the occupation of being a priest.

I meant preistcraft is not only being payed to preach the gospel.

Still doesn't public schools set themselfs up as a light unto the world and get gain????

One might say that but until you have a better option that is feasible and still within man's laws (remember we are to sustain the law where we live), you have to live with the public schools and be vigilant to what they teach and teach correct principles.

You cannot home school in Mexico. And private education is through the roof although it is superior in quality to public education.

Or I could come up there...oh...wait...you guys don't like Mexicans for thinking they support socialism. Whoops.

No we are to obey the law of the land that is constitutional. Anything more or less is evil.
Public schools are not constitutional.

Ezra wrote:No we are to obey the law of the land that is constitutional. Anything more or less is evil.
Public schools are not constitutional.

Federally mandated education is unconstitutional, in the United States.

10th Amendment clearly states that the powers outside of the realm of the feds are given to the states and to the people. 9th Amendment says there are other rights too that are not specifically enumerated in the Constitution (an example of this is the right to privacy that is implied in the 4th Amendment).

Therefore, the Feds can't mandate public schooling, but the states and munis can.

Federally mandated education is constitutional and established as a right, where I live. Every school here has to follow the federal curriculum (something which I disagree with but the law is the law here and we have to abide by it per the Article of Faith).

the constitution dose not grant the government the right to make the people pay for public school either.

Where you will find both of those desires is in the 10th plank of the communist manifesto. For free education run by the government and payed for through taxation.

Gotta love that the government is following the communist manifesto closer then the constitution