LDS Freedom Forum

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence (robbery) through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. (Old Testament, Genesis 6:13)

The word "violence" in the KJV is translated "robbery" in the Hebrew Bible. According to the Jewish Rabbi Chaim Richmon of the Temple Institute, the term robbery specifically refers to organized crime.

חָמָס = "chamas" = robbery = organized crime = conspiracy = secret combinations = works of darkness

God tells us in the Bible that the sin of Robbery was precisely the sin that brought upon the world the judgement of God in the Great Flood. Amazingly, the Book of Mormon similarly warns us that the secret combinations like the Gadianton Robbers brought about the complete destruction of Jeredite and Nephite civilizations and will similarly bring about the complete destruction of the Gentiles if we do not repent.

And behold, in the end of this book ye shall see that this Gadianton (Robber) did prove the overthrow, yea, almost the entire destruction of the people of Nephi. (Book of Mormon, Helaman 2:13)

Amos says that secret combinations were the cause of the destruction of the Northern Kingdom.

For they know not to do right, saith the Lord, who store up violence (חָמָס = robbery) and robbery (וָשֹׁד = destruction) in their palaces. (Old Testament, Amos, 3:10)

Nehum says that the sin of robbery would be the cause of the destruction of Nineveh and the Assyrian Empire.

Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies and robbery; the prey departeth not; (Old Testament, Nahum 3:1)

And Ezekiel says that secret combinations were the cause of the destruction of Jerusalem.

The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully. (Old Testament, Ezekiel, 22:29)

Isaiah also says that secret combinations oppress the poor, the fathless and the widow.

To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless! (Old Testament, Isaiah 10:2)

Oppressing the poor, the fatherless, the widow? Sounds like Wall Street to me.

The storehouse treasury purpose is for the poor of the church to be cared for with covenants and deeds that cannot be broken, as well as food and raiment.

This is the law for the use of consecrated tithes and offerings to be embraced by the church in Doctrine and Covenants 42 before any residue is to be used for buildings made from the hands of men for worshipping God or purchasing lands or other public benefit items of the church.

Because of this rejection of his greater celestial law, robbery of God is committed.

Wherefore has it been written-----

"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings."
(See Malachi 3:8)

The facts are what they are.

Truth is what it is.

Read Hosea, read Joel, and many of the writing of the Old Testament prophets of what is to take place in the latter days, even The Book of Enoch testifies of such doings in the latter days.

Is there any hope?

Only by the weeping and howling and crying out of the sheep that hear the voice of the Good Shepherd, and the sounding of the alarm, that the old men and administers of the "law" give ear and consider as is written in the Book of Joel, and atonement is made.

"Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl all ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley: because the harvest of the field is perished." (See Joel 1:11)


"Therefore also now, saith the Lord, turn ye even to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God." (Joel:2:12)

Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly----

Let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of the closet.

Come to the marrige of the Lamb of God, and answer the wedding invitation given in D&C 58.

Reject no longer tbe celestial law of imparting covenants and deeds that cannot be broken unto the poor, and be equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly, "All things common among you" as was done by distribution of Peter in the Book of Acts, and the Nephites in 4th Nephi.

Reject no longer the testaments you hold in your hands, O house of Ephraim.

You will be glad you did.♡

I looked it up in Strong's, and it looks like violence is the correct translation. http://biblehub.com/hebrew/2555.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stacy Oliver wrote:I looked it up in Strong's, and it looks like violence is the correct translation. http://biblehub.com/hebrew/2555.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, I saw that in Strong's Concordance. But not everything in Strong's is necessarily correct. It just means the KJV translators were consistent, but not necessarily correct when the scholars choose to interpret "chamas" as "violence".

The Hebrew Bible says "robbery" and Chaim Richman was commenting on a Youtube video that this means "organized crime". See Gen 6: 11-13. This is similar to how the Book of Mormon differentiates thief vs. robber:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo ... pter-6.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I think it is pretty amazing when the Bible and the Book of Mormon teach the same thing on such an important issue.

Hey, I see you use Chabad.org - wonderful. A good place of reference for what is happening with the House of Judah. You know someday, we must join back together as one family united, that serves God.♡

(See Ezekiel 37:15-22)♡

Robert Sinclair wrote:Hey, I see you use Chabad.org - wonderful. A good place of reference for what is happening with the House of Judah. You know someday, we must join back together as one family united, that serves God.♡

(See Ezekiel 37:15-22)♡

Robert, you should subscribe to the Temple Institute Youtube channel if you havn't already. They are really at the heart of everything happening on the temple mount in Jerusalem.

I will check it out.

Thanks.♡

Secret Combinations are a major warning in the Book of Mormon. Now I see Robbery is a major warning of the Bible also.

http://youtu.be/gdhSBowSrcI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes the Bible in Malachi 3:8 is very specific of the robbery of God, of the tithes and offerings donated to the storehouse of the LORD.

Their primary use from the days of Enoch and Melchizedek and Peter and his members, and of the Nephites in 4th Nephi, was for distribution unto the poor and needy until the people had no poor among them of their own freewill; it is God's to do whatever he has asked, and he has asked that covenants and deeds be imparted that cannot be broken unto the poor, as well as food and raiment, all things common among the members, equal in their temporal things for homes and lands, as well as food and raiment.

And it is the secret combinations set up by the twelve and seventy, that will lead to certain destruction of themselves as well as the blind sheep that follow them religiously to the abyss, as is recorded in The Book of Enoch the Prophet, and into captivity as recorded in the Book of Isaiah the Prophet.

This robbery should cease, but cannot until the scriptures are fullfilled every whit.

A cry must go out long and loud, of weeping and howling and sounding the alarm, until the old men and administers of the law, and husbandmen and vinedressers can all give ear and be ashamed for these things and atone, as is written in Isaiah and Joel and Hosea 14:8.

Someone has to do the weeping and howling and sounding of the alarm, and it is the sheep that hear the voice of the Good Shepherd to so do.♡

Robert,

America just might be a "type of Christ" and we are to witness her death and patiently await and assist in her glorious resurrection. It is difficult process to watch. Like Christ, we may need to approach the end like a sheep before the sheerer. We cannot avert the painful surgery that is needed. Weeping will come soon enough. The Great Solemn Assembly will follow. Then Ephraim will finally repent.

The warning voice right now is to receive the sealing in our forehead and to prepare every needful thing prepatory for the judgments that are to come and cannot be averted.

Why not say, I agree, if the LORD has said to weep and howl and sound the alarm, I will.♡

Why discourage from doing as he says to do, are you afraid of being harmed in church, if so, I understand.♡

The warning voice right now is to receive the sealing in our forehead and to prepare every needful thing prepatory for the judgments that are to come and cannot be averted.

In my book report on the things written in the "One Stick" the LORD has said to do-

Weep and howl and spare not, sound the alarm and show my people their transgressions, blow the trumpet in Zion for these things, of the perversion of equity in his vineyard.

So for myself, if I do not do these things I am under condemnation for not doing what I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what he has said to do.

Having listened and read these words over the years hundreds if not thousands of times, I will have no excuse at the judgement bar of Jesus Christ if I do not do this continually till I am dead, or it becomes safe.♡

perversion of equity in his vineyard.


The perversion of equity is because of robbery in the Land.

The Church is very equal in terms of physical things. Our wards have a very equitable budget and our activities are very humble and inexpensive. Yet when I go to the Dominican Republic, I am pleased that the Dominican Saints have a very comfortable chapel to meet in in Santo Domingo, an effective Bishops Storehouse, and a glorious and beautuful temple.

The United Firm spoken of in the Doctrine and Covenants was established because when it came to laying the foundations of cities in Missouri, the Federal government only sold individuals cheap land in large 320 acre plots. So, there were only initially a few land owners who were instructed to give excess (more than any one family could need or even want), to the church and distribute inheritances to the new settlers as opposed to exploiting the new arrivals and making them your debt slaves, or sharecroppers, or renters.

LDS leadership are NOT robbers. The weeping is NOT due to Church leadership actions but general corruption in Christian Western Society as a whole.

The "covenant and deed" command applied to a unique situation at the time. This principle may apply again in the future, but the LDS Church is not in control of land that they are to divy out to all 11 million members.

People are to be self-reliant in our modern circumstances and secure own own land ownership (covenant and deed) instead of being in debt or renting.

One of the major ways modern-day robbers exploit the poor is through debt. So, getting out of debt limits the power of the robbers over us.

Sorrowful, for on this matter I will have to say you may think as you desire, but equal in your temporal things, for homes and lands as well as food and raiment is not just for a time when 320 acre plots of land were sold. This is an everlasting order, from time beginning with Enoch and Melchizedek, and Peter and his members, with the Nephites in 4th Nephi, and even today.

I have assisted in planning and building a city, and know exactly what it means when Joshua was told to divide the lands and everyone to be given an inheritance as a stewardship sufficient for their support.

And I understand exactly what it means when the poor for whatever circumstances have come into their lives where they may not have the means to obtain a home of their own but need help to be able to have one.

I understand exactly what the laws of having an Inheritance in the land from a stewardship imparted from the storehouse treasury is, and a feast of fat things well prepared for the poor is, and you may ask any poor member of the church under the yoke of poverty and burden of struggling to keep a roof over their heads if they would be happy if imparted a home free and clear, if they would not mind sending in any surplus money they would then have for others to have the same, relief and security of having a home debt free to live and pray and work from, free of oppression of fear of being cast out into the street. You are a witness to even members that Brother Steven Jones along with the help of forum members helped give homes to those who had not.

And the church in in control of land and businesses and stocks and bonds and all manner of donations and consecrations, of $40,000,000,000.00 and growing assets, that they could sell and turn into money to distribute to the poor members to work with them to have homes, that have need for such, along with a call out to the billionaires and millionaires to help with such, and to deny the poor their right given of God, is to deny them their right.

I myself with my own family may be in a place where we may again be able to give homes away again, in the not too distant future, I hope to see an amendment in the tax code by then, where no tax penalties are imposed but possibly a deduction where we can go and do the same again, and again, where if we gave them to the church, they would be swallowed up, never to be distributed or seen by the poor and needy ever, under current church policy.

Ask members currently suffering about to lose their homes for whatever reasons or that have doubled up with other people just trying to get by, unsure month by month how they will be able to get by or feel they are imposing upon others or struggling with rent or mortgage payments, or even having a simple job, how they would feel, if given help and assistance owning outright their own homes debt free. And the LORD has had written there is more than enough and to spare to accomplish this, the will of God for his people.

And know this, not all members of the church need this help, many already own their own homes, and some have more than truly needed for their own support even now.

After reading the scriptures written of the "One Stick" I know exactly what it means for distribution was made unto all, that none had need or want, but they had "all things common among them" by their own freewill.

There are many at this time without, and if the answer is these people have brought upon themselves their own problems of not having a home, and it is their responsibility to obtain their own, then the world lies in sin for this, if this is the mind and heart of most of the members that have their own, plus possibly additional homes as well as wealth in the millions and billions say the same, let the poor all earn their own, and become self sufficient on their own merits and labors, then robbery of God is upon these as well.

Robbery of God is what it is, and when you stand before the judgement seat of Christ, with the idea of let them earn their own, when Jesus Christ has said there is more than sufficient for all to be imparted homes first and foremost, and inhertiances of stewardships imparted by covenants and deeds that cannot be broken, and you look and see that those accounted worthy to obtain that life with him for the thousand years promised have no temples built anywhere (See Revelation 21:22) by the hands of men anymore to be as idols of worship made from the hands of men you will surely understand at that time, what temples became for the House of Ephraim, when commanded to build them "after all had sufficient for their needs and wants" first of home and land, as well as food and raiment.

"Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold even I have seen it, saith the LORD" (See Jeremiah 7:11)

You will know why John the baptist needed no building to baptize Jesus Christ, nor Alma for his people, none need a building to do these things of God, except as the LORD asks, after all have sufficient for their wants and needs.

People housed with covenants and deeds for stewardships of places to live with homes and land first, before any "residue" is used for buildings of worship or lands purchased for the public benefit of the members, is the "law to be embraced by the church", anything less than obeying this law is robbery of God, of that which he has commanded. You will know this perfectly at his judgement bar, and when you knock upon his door and ask to enter in, what "The right of the needy" judgement of God was and is.♡

Good to understand the condition of the vineyard written and testified of in the Book of Joel, and of the loftiness and inequality of the vineyard written and testified of by Zenos, from the brass plate so carefully preserved for our day in the Book of Jacob, and as Jeremiah and Moroni, and Micah and Hosea, and so many have born witness and testified of what is to take place in the latter days, that you may understand perfectly, and be confounded no more, on how the poor and needy are to be treated, equal and as one, imparted unto, all things common, no poor among you of your own freewill.♡

I think one of the reasons secret combinations, organized crime, or "robbery" in context of the opening post, is so dangerous to society is you have groups of people working together with evil intent, and each individual's ability to reason is easily swallowed up in the group.

The gang mentality of "go along with what is being done or be eliminated" is dangerous.

Once a person is in the "robber" club, it is pretty tricky to get out, even if you have a change of heart. I can see how organized crime, or "robbery" would indeed be a sin which brings destruction.

Types and shadows of each other and of Babylon, which brings about destruction of hearts and minds, whether by so horrible as murder to keep this power of robbery going forward, among the people, from gangs, or even as little as the threat of being disfellowshipped or exed for not obeying this mindset of the leaders to keep this power over the assets of the storehouse treasury, keeping the wealth, and power to control, to a few select of a group, which thing has been forbidden of God, when he has commanded that all members are to have equal claim upon, and by secret combinations, this right is removed to only one, or just a few, to have all power and say, no more of the common consent, of all things common among them.
This is what is meant when it is written, "Will a man rob God?", and the answer of the LORD is - "In tithes and offerings". You can know of yourselves it is not just evil gangs, that will rob the people, but those overcome by the mindset of the Mother of all harlots, and Whore of all the Earth, of Babylon, such as the leaders of the House of Ephraim, as foretold thousands of years ago by Hosea, who was commanded as a type and shadow of the LORD to marry a wife of whoredoms, and have children with a wife of whoredoms, for a sign for such as would be from the House of Israel of Ephraim. And even now Ephraim commits whoredom, willingly walking away from the celestial law, and robbing the poor of their right, to homes and lands, as well as just food and raiment, from the tithes and offerings consecrated unto the LORD.
Good for Ephraim to awaken from this whoredom, and finally be ashamed (Joel 1:11) and finally do as is written in (Hosea 14:8) saying, "What have I to do anymore with idols?, and finally bring the members to be equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly, no longer divided into classes of rich and poor, for this brought about the destruction of the church in 4th Nephi beginning with verse 25, where it is written---

"And from that time forth they did have their goods and their substance no more common among them. And they began to be divided into classes ................"

Such has been the doings of the House of Ephraim, since receiving the greater celestial law. Sad tale to tell. ♡

Looking up the word "Hamas" or "violence" in the Old Testament shows that nearly all the prophets warned about it. "Hamas" always has to do with the rich, powerful, priests class exploitation of the poor using unjust economic practices, usury, taxes, or skirting the letter of the law (loopholes).

"Hamas" or "conspiracy/robbery" is different than "violent thievery" which is the word "gazal" in Micah 2:2.

Kitkat wrote:I think one of the reasons secret combinations, organized crime, or "robbery" in context of the opening post, is so dangerous to society is you have groups of people working together with evil intent, and each individual's ability to reason is easily swallowed up in the group.

The gang mentality of "go along with what is being done or be eliminated" is dangerous.

Once a person is in the "robber" club, it is pretty tricky to get out, even if you have a change of heart. I can see how organized crime, or "robbery" would indeed be a sin which brings destruction.

People involved in robbery/conspiracy can't get out because 1. the penalty for breaking their oath is death 2. Satan tells them they have committed the unpardonable sin and they cannot be forgiven.

In reality the Book of Mormon and New Testament may discuss how to repent from seemingly "unpardonable sins". Sherem and the thief crucified next to Jesus may be examples.

1. Confess and Accept the Savior
2. Publically confess sin
3. Willingly submit to punishment without appeal or plea deal. (seals your witness)

I think Brigham Young was teaching something like this which critics label "blood atonement" which it is NOT. Only Christ's blood forgives sin. Submission to punishment is about making proper restitution.

"Hamas" or robbery doesn't necessarily have anything to do with violence or terrorism but the wealthy and powerful using their position, usury, taxes, government policies, to exploit the poor.

The term "robber barons" referring to 19th-century businessmen like JP Morgan, Jay Gould, Vanderbuilt, Rockefeller etc, correctly expresses the meaning of "robber".

Micah 2:2 uses the term "gazal" to refer to "violent thievery" which is different from "hamas/robbery".

Just like the Book of Mormon differentiates between a thief and a robber, so does the Bible.


חָמָס = "hamas" = robbery, organized crime, conspiracy, secret combinations, works of darkness

גָּ֝זַ֗ל = "gazal" = violent thievery, seized, stolen, torn away.

See you use Micah 2:2, and see in verse 5 the lord says "the congregation of the LORD".

Then all of chapter 3 speaks directly to the heads of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor the judgement to be rendered for the poor, who pervert all "equity".

"Equity" is a judgement of God unto his people to be distributed equally, but the leaders obey him not.

This brings about destruction where Zion shall be plowed as a field.

Again, sad tale to tell. ♡

The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the Lord, and say, Is not the Lord among us? none evil can come upon us. (Old Testament, Micah 3:11)

LDS Leadership do not practice priestcraft. They do not "teach for hire".

Mainstream Christianity on the other hand does follow after the order of Nehor and preach to be popular.

Robert, I am of the opinion that you are speaking against the Lord's anointed. I and others are continually having to defend the Lord's anointed against your attacks. You claim to use scripture to attack LDS Leadership. But an attack is an attack however it is done.

You claim to be on the side of Zion yet you have set yourself up in opposition to those who possess the keys of Zion. LDS Leadership will do what the Lord tells them when the Lord tells them to do it.

Right now the Lord wills that the weeds and tares grow together in America and West until a time of harvest and cleansing. Its difficult to watch, okay. But be patient and trust the Lord knows what he is doing.

It is not our place to direct the head of the Lord's Church. We can talk about scripture. But it is crossing the line to lay blame or criticize Church leadership or seek to steady the ark.

Yes, a very sad tale