LDS Freedom Forum

Here is a list of men who followed the prophet until they became the prophet, after which they were led by Jesus Christ.

1. Brigham Young
2. John Taylor
3. Wilford Woodruff
4. Lorenzo Snow
5. Joseph F. Smith
6. Heber J. Grant
7. George Albert Smith
8. David O. McKay
9. Joseph Fielding Smith
10. Harold B. Lee
11. Spencer W. Kimball
12. Ezra Taft Benson
13. Howard W. Hunter
14. Gordon B. Hinckley
15. Thomas S. Monson

Anyone who says that they have no need to follow the prophet and that they are led by Jesus Christ is not doing what all the Latter-day prophets have done. Jesus Christ employs plenty of servants to help us be worthy of celestial glory when we get to the gate, the gate where He employs no servant.

Wo unto him who says to the Savior Jesus Christ: “You employed those servants for nothing. Servants who followed the prophet as you gave them greater responsibilities in building up your kingdom were wasting their time. All of your servants should have followed ONLY you, the Savior Jesus Christ. They should not have followed the prophet.”

I don't think you are qualified to pronounce woes upon anyone, bro. What do you think you are, a prophet?

Serious question - are you employed by or in any way compensated by the church for posting on LDSFF or anywhere else?
Do you have a calling to do so?

How about Adam? Moses? Abraham? Joseph Smith?

When you enter in at the gate, what is after? The strait and narrow path?

Franco, I think you have totally missed the meaning of that great scripture. No one except Jesus Christ and faith in Him can allow us to enter into the path that leads to eternal life. I agree that we should listen to the counsel of the prophets; they are indeed Christ's servants sent to support, assist, call, and aid us on our path. As we hearken to that counsel, we are more likely to stay on that narrow and very rigidly defined path. However, ONLY by accepting and submitting to Jesus Christ are we even allowed onto the path!

Desert Roses
I don't think Franco was saying that these two concordant ideas are not concordant. He was merely emphasizing an aspect of the plan that is too frequently disregarded in some of these parts.
dc

I think Ephraim is doing what is written they shall do.

Good to hope and pray for Ephraim to awaken and acknowledge their offence against the greater celestial law of "Equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly", "All things common among them", living the "United Order", instructed them, to have oil in their lamps, wicks fully trimmed, the bride brought out of the closet, the feast of fat things well prepared and imparted, unto all the poor of their church, as if they were the Lamb of God himself. ♡

Those in charge ought to read and see what is written they shall do, and give ear, and consider, has the LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ hid his face from us, where he will not meet with us face to face, for these things. And look upon themselves and see that loftiness has indeed come into the vineyard, and inequality of the fruits and flocks is present on their watch.

And finally fullfill Hosea 14:8 and Jacob 5:72-74 where all commandments are kept, and Joel all of chapter 1 and chapter 2. Yes, let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of the closet, that the bridegroom seeing the fast chosen of Isaiah 58, where when thou call, the LORD shall answer saying, "Here I am".

May these things come to pass soon.♡

Original_Intent wrote:I don't think you are qualified to pronounce woes upon anyone, bro. What do you think you are, a prophet?

Serious question - are you employed by or in any way compensated by the church for posting on LDSFF or anywhere else?
Do you have a calling to do so?

The only callings I have are being a teacher on the second Sunday in our Elders Quorum and passing around the sign-up sheet for cleaning the building.

I am not employed by the Church, and the only compensation I receive for preaching the gospel and building up the kingdom of God comes from our Heavenly Father in the way of spiritual blessings. As far as I know, no General Authorities have any idea that I am posting on the internet.

Robert, there is no doubt you are a good guy. Charitable, much heart, well versed in the scriptures. And probably 100 or 1000 other good qualities.
But the world doesn't use oil lamps anymore.
And poverty doesn't exist anymore. The Great Lyndon Johnson eradicated poverty with his brilliant "War On Poverty" back in the '60s.
And I think the only way the United Order will ever return is at the second coming.
So we have to adapt to be more effective today, and live in the world in which we live in. And not in the past.
dc

I do intend to have an oil lamp in my cabin in Utah, which I will probably use as my only light some nights. I love those things.

Stahura wrote:How about Adam? Moses? Abraham? Joseph Smith?

Prophets who stand at the head of any dispensation must be led by Jesus Christ, but that has no relevance to the fact that in this, the last dispensation, the dispensation of the fulness of times, Jesus Christ has directed us to follow His prophet on the earth.

Franco wrote: As far as I know, no General Authorities have any idea that I am posting on the internet.

But I myself and others do know, and I for one, am most grateful for your words here, Franco.
dc

I appreciate your posts Franco, lets me have a chance many times to bring to light the things written of the House of Ephraim which are true.♡

Hosea 14:8 must be fullfilled someday.♡

Stahura wrote:When you enter in at the gate, what is after? The strait and narrow path?

The gate where we need to be worthy of celestial glory is the judgment bar of Jesus Christ, the gate where He employs no servant. If you think He is speaking of baptism as the gate where He employs no servant, then you must think we have no need to be taught His doctrine in any of the priesthood meetings or gospel doctrine classes after we are baptized.

As also Ezekiel 37:15-23 which I hope comes to pass soon.♡

And by the way what is the deal with almost no help for the forum member bree and her family?

I thought their site would have gotten far more help from everyone than they have gotten.

Anyone know why more help has not been given?♡

David13, poverty does exist.♡

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote:When you enter in at the gate, what is after? The strait and narrow path?

The gate where we need to be worthy of celestial glory is the judgment bar of Jesus Christ, the gate where He employs no servant. If you think He is speaking of baptism as the gate where He employs no servant, then you must think we have no need to be taught His doctrine in any of the priesthood meetings or gospel doctrine classes after we are baptized.

Thanks Franco. I didn't think anything, was just wondering what that gate is, and what comes after that gate. If it's separate from the "way" we enter when we receive the baptism of fire.

Being born again allows us to enter in by the way and we then enter the strait and narrow path. The gate lies at the end of the strait and narrow path?

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote:How about Adam? Moses? Abraham? Joseph Smith?

Prophets who stand at the head of any dispensation must be led by Jesus Christ, but that has no relevance to the fact that in this, the last dispensation, the dispensation of the fulness of times, Jesus Christ has directed us to follow His prophet on the earth.

Okay I'll take it

Following the head of Ephraim while he is willingly walking away from the greater things of the law, is to fullfill the scriptures that have been written for this house.

Good to see exactly what Ephraim is doing, and sound the alarm as the LORD has said.♡

Stahura wrote:

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote:When you enter in at the gate, what is after? The strait and narrow path?

The gate where we need to be worthy of celestial glory is the judgment bar of Jesus Christ, the gate where He employs no servant. If you think He is speaking of baptism as the gate where He employs no servant, then you must think we have no need to be taught His doctrine in any of the priesthood meetings or gospel doctrine classes after we are baptized.

Thanks Franco. I didn't think anything, was just wondering what that gate is, and what comes after that gate. If it's separate from the "way" we enter when we receive the baptism of fire.

Being born again allows us to enter in by the way and we then enter the strait and narrow path. The gate lies at the end of the strait and narrow path?

It seems to actually be a "gateway" from baptism to exaltation, but it is only at the gate of exaltation that He is the Judge with no servant.

Franco wrote: It seems to actually be a "gateway" from baptism to exaltation, but it is only at the gate of exaltation that He is the Judge with no servant.

I see. Here's some food for thought.

We enter in by the way only once we receive the Holy Ghost, or an anointing from God. Only then have we entered in by the way.

For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate;

1 John 2:27 says this: 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

So once we have entered in by the way and received the Holy Ghost ( anointing) , we need not that any man teach us. On this strait and narrow path we have this anointing to guide us.

So if we need not that any man teach us on the way to the Gate for which God employs no servant, why do we need many servants along the way?

Honest question. Trying to get some soul searching and some thinking going

Stahura wrote:

Franco wrote: It seems to actually be a "gateway" from baptism to exaltation, but it is only at the gate of exaltation that He is the Judge with no servant.

I see. Here's some food for thought.

We enter in by the way only once we receive the Holy Ghost, or an anointing from God. Only then have we entered in by the way.

For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate;

1 John 2:27 says this: 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

So once we have entered in by the way and received the Holy Ghost ( anointing) , we need not that any man teach us. On this strait and narrow path we have this anointing to guide us.

So if we need not that any man teach us on the way to the Gate for which God employs no servant, why do we need many servants along the way?

Honest question. Trying to get some soul searching and some thinking going

In that particular verse in John’s 1st general epistle to the Church, he was telling the Elders that they were not to be taught about the gospel by those who are not of the Church, but they are to teach men about the gospel. Jesus Christ told us the same thing in these latter days in D&C 43:15;

“Again I say, hearken ye elders of my church, whom I have appointed: Ye are not sent forth to be taught, but to teach the children of men the things which I have put into your hands by the power of my Spirit.”

If members of the Church do not need to be taught anything by those in authority, then there would be no for John and the other apostles to write their epistles, nor would there be a need for Paul to write all those letters.

Your interpretation of that scripture is quite paradoxical. Your interpretation would mean that John, a man, had to teach them that a man should not teach them.

In 1 Corinthians 15:12, Paul asked, “Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?”

There must have been some man or group of men teaching that there was no resurrection from the dead. The apostles always had to deal with false doctrines being taught by men. The Holy Ghost confirms for us the true doctrine being taught by prophets and apostles. Hence, John wrote, “Ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”

Original_Intent wrote:I don't think you are qualified to pronounce woes upon anyone, bro. What do you think you are, a prophet?

So, you, Original_Intent, take the position that wo is NOT pronounced unto him who says to the Savior Jesus Christ: “You employed those servants for nothing. Servants who followed the prophet as you gave them greater responsibilities in building up your kingdom were wasting their time. All of your servants should have followed ONLY you, the Savior Jesus Christ. They should not have followed the prophet.”

Do I understand you correctly?

Where is it written that these of Ephraim follow not Jesus Christ but after the Mother of Harlots and Whore of all the earth.

Who speaks the truth, Hosea or another man?

Who?

Seek for the truth of these things.♡

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote:How about Adam? Moses? Abraham? Joseph Smith?

Prophets who stand at the head of any dispensation must be led by Jesus Christ, but that has no relevance to the fact that in this, the last dispensation, the dispensation of the fulness of times, Jesus Christ has directed us to follow His prophet on the earth.

“Everlasting covenant was made between three personages before the organization of this earth and relates to their dispensation of things to men on the earth. These personages ... are called God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Witness or Testator.”15 (https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-jo ... 81_000_006" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

looks like Joseph taught that we had at least 3 Gods that stood at the head of 3 of the dispensations.. One was the Creator, one the Redeemer, and the final one the Witness or Testator.

I would assume that the Head of the first dispensation, God the First (Creator) leads the rest? or do they all work as one as Christ said "I and my Father are one".. which would then mean those three are not led by christ.. right?