LDS Freedom Forum

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I was just ponderizing this article that I saw posted on Facebook. I was disappointed to hear this happened as I really enjoyed the talk. What are your thoughts?

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Tempest in a teapot.

Some church members seem to view general authorities as perfect individuals, but they most certainly are not.

The idea sounds like a good one, and I am sure that if "ponderize" shirts showed up at Deseret Book stores nobody would complain. But his family so obviously trying to profit off the talk clearly aggravated some church members. Next time they will just try selling their products anonymously through Deseret Book and nobody will complain. Then again, as a counselor in the General Sunday School Presidency, he may not be in office long enough to give another General Conference talk.

brianj wrote:Some church members seem to view general authorities as perfect individuals, but they most certainly are not.

The idea sounds like a good one, and I am sure that if "ponderize" shirts showed up at Deseret Book stores nobody would complain. But his family so obviously trying to profit off the talk clearly aggravated some church members. Next time they will just try selling their products anonymously through Deseret Book and nobody will complain. Then again, as a counselor in the General Sunday School Presidency, he may not be in office long enough to give another General Conference talk.

I don't view them as perfect, but I do view this as tacky and in poor taste. No different than a bishop or stake president who did the same thing from the pulpit. To whom much is given, much is required. If you are speaking at general conference as a general authority, the standard is most certainly higher for you than someone who is called to be an usher and simply did something from the ward pulpit. It not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but in the short term....it's just plain 'ole tacky. Too bad ....because it's one of the talks that I rememebered because it was so catchy.

Franco wrote:Tempest in a teapot.

Whoa. I am so blown away by this response. Paid shill?

He actually was a mission president where I live. He was a wonderful mission president who did a lot of good. I do think it was an unwise choice that his son did. But it doesn't change for me the fact that I believe his talk was inspired and that if we do what he suggests we will be better off for it.

Preistcrafterize!

Capitalize.

TrueIntent wrote:It not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but in the short term....it's just plain 'ole tacky. Too bad ....because it's one of the talks that I remembered because it was so catchy.

I think that was by design, and that's why people have a problem with it.

Up until now the formula seems to have been:

1. General authorities write the best talks they can that will inspire the membership to rededicate themselves to the missions of the church.
2. In a sincere effort to accomplish the above, undoubtedly someone will turn a phrase or hit on a trendy theme that takes hold in the minds of the members.
3. Either out of a sincere desire to promote righteousness, or base profiteering, or a mixture of both, members start to sell each other merchandise capitalizing on those popular themes and phrases from conference.

Not everyone is completely on board with all of this, some people consider it priestcraft, but for the most part it seems pretty harmless and at any rate it has been going on long enough under the church's purview that it seems to carry their approval.

What Durrant appears to have done was to apply Covey's Effective Habit No. 2: Begin With The End In Mind®. He wanted himself or his family to be the ones to profit from the fortunate turn of a phrase in conference this time around, so he crafted his talk with that intent. That's why he laid it on so thick, repeating the phrase that pays so often in his talk. And that's why the website and social media campaigns were set up ahead of time.

Someone described this as the lamest example of insider trading ever, and I think that's pretty apt. It was crass but not really damaging to anyone. There is far worse insider trading going on in the church.

The fact remains that "Ponderizing" is just another way of saying "meditate therein" which Moses had taught as a part of the "law" along with the 10 commandments and Joshua repeated in Joshua 1:8 -----

" This book if the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt "meditate therein" day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to "all" that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success."

Especially the leader---

"Shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, to keep "all" the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
That his heart not be lifted up above his brethern, that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left."

And, he was not to multiply gold nor silver nor wives, and had to write his own personal copy of the "law" in a book of his own to read from. (See Deut:17:14-20)

Yes, commanded of the LORD-----

"Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates." (See Deut 11:18-20)

So whether you wish to call it "ponderize" or "meditate therein" day and night, posting upon your doors and walls and halls and gates and as frontlets before your eyes and on your hands, anything that can and will help you to keep "all" his law and not just some of it, is the command and message and instruction from God for his children, to help them to prosper in the land, and live long upon it, by keeping his commandments which he has given them, that they might always have his Spirit of truth, and Holy Ghost, of charity and justice, to be with them.♡

And as far as making a profit off the word of God these things have been forbidden of the LORD, for self gain, or to set yourself up individually as a light, where loftiness would set in, and one might begin in their own heart to lift themselves up above others of their own family of God, pointing to themselves, saying "follow me" selling books for money, or lectures, or any manner of priestcraft, that would lead away from equality of the family members.

For the law that Moses sought to teach the children of Israel from God, was to be equal in their temporal things, and this not grudgingly, with the feasts days, the first fruit offerings, and of flocks, of gleaning grapes, and corners of fields left for the poor, of no usery and the Lord's release of debt's of the poor every seven years, and of Jubilee, where even lands lost of inheritances and stewardships were to be returned debt free to the poor who had lost such, and again all debt forgiven.

Of laws that said to open your hand wide unto your poor brother even for loans that the seventh year was drawing close, where you knew in your heart, it was to be forgiven soon and let go.

Yes all these statutes and judgements, were to help the children of Israel not lift their hearts one above another, and to labor continually to do good and be equal one with another, living in happiness and unselfishness.

So it is good to obey the LORD and meditate therein or ponderize if that word helps you to remember, to place his words around you everywhere, you look, and seek to have them enscribed upon the table of your heart, mind and soul. ♡

The fact that "Ponderize" T-shirts are now available at the BYU Bookstore has me rethinking step number 3 above. I had assumed that enterprising members were the driving force behind all the conference themed kitsch you can buy, but maybe Durrant's real misstep was that he tried to profit independently instead of going through the proper church channels.

I could see how the church would claim ownership of any ideas generated through conference, and expect to be the ones to profit thereby, if there is any profit to be made.

One person's take on the subject:

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Devin shouldn't feel to bad. He is in good company at the BYU Store.

Devin Durrant doesn't get his name on the Ponderize shirt?

TrueIntent wrote:

brianj wrote:Some church members seem to view general authorities as perfect individuals, but they most certainly are not.

The idea sounds like a good one, and I am sure that if "ponderize" shirts showed up at Deseret Book stores nobody would complain. But his family so obviously trying to profit off the talk clearly aggravated some church members. Next time they will just try selling their products anonymously through Deseret Book and nobody will complain. Then again, as a counselor in the General Sunday School Presidency, he may not be in office long enough to give another General Conference talk.

I don't view them as perfect, but I do view this as tacky and in poor taste. No different than a bishop or stake president who did the same thing from the pulpit. To whom much is given, much is required. If you are speaking at general conference as a general authority, the standard is most certainly higher for you than someone who is called to be an usher and simply did something from the ward pulpit. It not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but in the short term....it's just plain 'ole tacky. Too bad ....because it's one of the talks that I rememebered because it was so catchy.

So it's plain ole tacky when a minor GA markets his catchphrase, but it's not tacky when the Corporation markets the catchphrases of the First Presidency? (See shirt in photos above.)

If they would do WoW coffee cups, I'd buy a dozen.

I think it's all tacky.

In High School I had a "Button Your Fly" T-shirt and a Def Leopard Hysteria T-shirt. The rich kids wore Gerbeau shorts and banana republic shirts.
I'd rather actually see someone lift where they stand than wear a shirt that says it. Ponderize that.
Maybe I could create a shirt with a picture of a kid wearing a shirt that says lift where you stand while he's lifting where he's standing with a caption that says "don't just ponderize, lift where you stand".

Lizzy60 wrote:

TrueIntent wrote:

brianj wrote:Some church members seem to view general authorities as perfect individuals, but they most certainly are not.

The idea sounds like a good one, and I am sure that if "ponderize" shirts showed up at Deseret Book stores nobody would complain. But his family so obviously trying to profit off the talk clearly aggravated some church members. Next time they will just try selling their products anonymously through Deseret Book and nobody will complain. Then again, as a counselor in the General Sunday School Presidency, he may not be in office long enough to give another General Conference talk.

I don't view them as perfect, but I do view this as tacky and in poor taste. No different than a bishop or stake president who did the same thing from the pulpit. To whom much is given, much is required. If you are speaking at general conference as a general authority, the standard is most certainly higher for you than someone who is called to be an usher and simply did something from the ward pulpit. It not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but in the short term....it's just plain 'ole tacky. Too bad ....because it's one of the talks that I rememebered because it was so catchy.

So it's plain ole tacky when a minor GA markets his catchphrase, but it's not tacky when the Corporation markets the catchphrases of the First Presidency? (See shirt in photos above.)

Of course it's not tacky....hence the name " Corporation "......it implies they are trying to make a profit. I don't see anything wrong with that. I also don't see anything wrong with people who are members of the church ( or business owners) who design plaques with quotes on them to sell the merchandise for a personal profit or anyone who takes religious quotes whether it be from leadership , or out of the Bible, or from Jesus Christ himself and puts it on a mug or T-shirt or picture frame etc. so that people can purchase them and put them in their home.

However I do have a problem with our leadership who are supposedly called by God giving a message in conference, And then turn around and try make a profit from their message that is supposedly inspired by God. Because when they do that it seems like instead of being inspired by God it's inspired by profit. If that guy wants to make money, he can write a book on his own personal time about ponderizing and try and get it published, but we are counseled as members of this church to WATCH conference. And if conference is a way for leadership to make monetary gains off the message they're sharing, then I don't intend to watch it anymore. I don't believe that's the purpose. I hope that's not the purpose. But that's inappropriate if that were the purpose. No General authority should be trying to profit off off their message..... Especially when so much emphasis is placed on having the membership watch general conference.

I wish I had the tithing of the tithing of the money made on CTR rings over the years...

TrueIntent wrote: Of course it's not tacky....hence the name " Corporation "......it implies they are trying to make a profit. I don't see anything wrong with that. I also don't see anything wrong with people who are members of the church ( or business owners) who design plaques with quotes on them to sell the merchandise for a personal profit or anyone who takes religious quotes whether it be from leadership , or out of the Bible, or from Jesus Christ himself and puts it on a mug or T-shirt or picture frame etc. so that people can purchase them and put them in their home.

This is where I start having heart burn is because I think to myself, if it is about love, then why aren't we giving these shirts away? It is said that such things might help another be better. If it is about the salvation of souls, if that is truly the motivation, why wouldn't we be giving away all of the t-shirts so that perhaps even just one soul might be saved by our efforts? But, see, we can't buy spirituality with money.

Alma 1:20 wrote:Yea, they did persecute them, and afflict them with all manner of words, and this because of their humility; because they were not proud in their own eyes, and because they did impart the word of God, one with another, without money and without price.

Further, the principles seems to be we must give money away to get spirituality. I suppose the more we give our money away, the more spirituality we get. If we give all our money away, perhaps we will get all spirituality.

In Zion nobody will have to pay money for the Words of Christ because they will be written upon their hearts and even if they weren't, there will be no money to buy things anyway.

Satan said, "You can buy anything in this world with money" God says "Come unto me all ye ends of the earth, buy milk and honey, without money and without price."

-Finrock

Obrien wrote:If they would do WoW coffee cups, I'd buy a dozen.

=)) :ymparty:
Or CTR shot glasses! Man that would be sweet. Shall we open a shop!?

"Insider priestcraft"
I think that sums it up nicely.

shadow wrote:I think it's all tacky.

In High School I had a "Button Your Fly" T-shirt and a Def Leopard Hysteria T-shirt. The rich kids wore Girbeau shorts and banana republic shirts.

Really? You weren't sporting a "Lengthen Your Stride" t-shirt like the rest of us? Huh.

I just hope people who purchase the soon to be available "Old Ship Zion" idol of worship from Deseret Book will be able to ponderize while on deck. Ahoy Matey!

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