LDS Freedom Forum

Franco wrote: The Holy Ghost is not "another" Comforter to us. He is the ONLY Comforter we have. Jesus promised the apostles “another Comforter” because He would be leaving them.

marc wrote:In Joseph Smith's discourse found in the book, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, here on page 150 and 151: http://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; he clearly lists two Comforters, the First Comforter and the Last Comforter, or as we know Him, The Second Comforter. There are two Comforters.

marc wrote:

Franco wrote:

marc wrote:

Franco wrote:Satan deceives people into believing his lies while convincing them that they are listening to the Holy Ghost. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan....

Good evening, Franco. That's a very powerful statement, but it's probably true. So in the spirit of truth, I would like to ask you a question, if you please. Referencing Sunday's Priesthood session, I offer the following quote from one of our Apostles, Elder Anderson's talk:

Honest Questions

Addressing honest questions is an important part of building faith, and we use both our intellect and our feelings. The Lord said, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart.” Not all answers will come immediately, but most questions can be resolved through sincere study and seeking answers from God. Using our mind without our heart will not bring spiritual answers. “The things of God knoweth no man, but [through] the Spirit of God.”14 And to help us, Jesus promised us “another Comforter” and called Him “even the Spirit of truth.”15

Here is the link to his talk at lds.org: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... 41andersen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you can see, two scriptures are referenced (one from 1 Corinthians and the other from the gospel of John). Who is Elder Anderson referring to in this paragraph? What say ye?

Christ was speaking to the apostles before He was taken in the Garden of Gethsemane. He was speaking of the Holy Ghost as being the Comforter that would come after He is gone. Notice what the Savior said in John 16:7, "It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Elder Anderson erred when he said Jesus was promising "us" another Comforter. Jesus made that promise to the apostles.

Thank you, Franco for your prompt and honest reply. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the Holy Ghost is the "other comforter" and you seem to affirm that He made that promise to his apostles exclusively. Thus:

1. The "other comforter" is the Holy Ghost in this passage
2. Elder Anderson erred when he said that Jesus was promising "us" another Comforter.

I would like to quote Joseph Smith from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 150, which I have right next to me:

The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of this generation. After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.

Note the 16, 17, 18, 21, 23 verses:

“16. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with
you forever;
“17. Even the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither
knoweth him; but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
“18. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. * *
“21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them he it is that loveth me: and he that
loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
“23. If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come
unto him, and make our abode with him.”

Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions—Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn.

Furthermore:

John 14: 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

D&C 130:3 John 14:23—The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false.

Franco, either you and Elder Anderson are both wrong and Joseph Smith is correct, or Joseph Smith knew what he was talking about and you have misunderstood Elder Anderson, who also erred. So who is listening to Satan and who is listening to the Holy Ghost? Like I said, that is a very powerful statement to declare and to make a topic of it.

Stahura wrote:

marc wrote:In Joseph Smith's discourse found in the book, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, here on page 150 and 151: http://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; he clearly lists two Comforters, the First Comforter and the Last Comforter, or as we know Him, The Second Comforter. There are two Comforters.

This is why I'm confused, I'm trying to understand what Franco is saying.

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote:

marc wrote:In Joseph Smith's discourse found in the book, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, here on page 150 and 151: http://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; he clearly lists two Comforters, the First Comforter and the Last Comforter, or as we know Him, The Second Comforter. There are two Comforters.

This is why I'm confused, I'm trying to understand what Franco is saying.

I should have checked teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith before I addressed Marc's post. Marc is correct. His source, Joseph Smith, is impeccable.

Desert Roses wrote:Wow...I guess I've been attending a different church all these years! I've heard many, many stories of spiritual gifts, of miracles from healings to raising the dead to changing a person's very nature, of gifts of speaking in tongues, of prophecies, and just about any other gift you can find reference to in the scriptures--and that's just in Sunday School and RS. I've experienced healings, prophecies for my own family and self, visions, ministrations of angels...and so on. I'm not a person with anything special or any special talents, and if its like that for me, and for those I talk to (in Utah wards), then what's going on that the ones you know aren't having any of these blessings? That's sad!

Robert Sinclair wrote:Be equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly.♡

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote:

marc wrote:In Joseph Smith's discourse found in the book, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, here on page 150 and 151: http://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; he clearly lists two Comforters, the First Comforter and the Last Comforter, or as we know Him, The Second Comforter. There are two Comforters.

This is why I'm confused, I'm trying to understand what Franco is saying.

I should have checked teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith before I addressed Marc's post. Marc is correct. His source, Joseph Smith, is impeccable.

Stahura wrote:

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote:

marc wrote:In Joseph Smith's discourse found in the book, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, here on page 150 and 151: http://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; he clearly lists two Comforters, the First Comforter and the Last Comforter, or as we know Him, The Second Comforter. There are two Comforters.

This is why I'm confused, I'm trying to understand what Franco is saying.

I should have checked teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith before I addressed Marc's post. Marc is correct. His source, Joseph Smith, is impeccable.

So Franco, did Elder Anderson contradict Joseph Smith?
Or am I understanding something incorrectly?

If he did, what does that mean?

brianj wrote:
I am curious: The stories you have heard of raising the dead, were they recent stories? I have heard many stories from the early days of the church, but the most recent stories I have heard are still over 100 years old.

brianj wrote:There is plenty that people reject. In the Last Days forum somebody argued that nobody but the prophet is entitled to receive revelation. In addition to denying that anybody at the stake or ward level is called by revelation, that claim would mean that we can't have the revelation that our testimonies should be based in.

I have come across quotes from First Presidency members telling members that we should be praying for gifts of the spirit that we don't have, but it seems that a majority of the members I have known believe that prophecy, dreams, and visions are only for general authorities, that angels no longer minister, that healings no longer happen and blessings are only given to encourage and strengthen people until they recover, that prophesied future events can't possibly happen because the US, like Jerusalem or Zarahemla, is too great to fall, and so on.

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote: So Franco, did Elder Anderson contradict Joseph Smith?
Or am I understanding something incorrectly?

If he did, what does that mean?

I will get back to you on that.

Stahura wrote:

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote: So Franco, did Elder Anderson contradict Joseph Smith?
Or am I understanding something incorrectly?

If he did, what does that mean?

I will get back to you on that.

I'll hold you do that

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote:

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote: So Franco, did Elder Anderson contradict Joseph Smith?
Or am I understanding something incorrectly?

If he did, what does that mean?

I will get back to you on that.

I'll hold you do that

Elder Anderson was obviously unfamiliar with what Jesus Christ had revealed through His prophet on the earth. Apostles do not have revelation for the Church. Only the prophet can have revelation for the Church. Bruce McConkie, too, made a few claims that contradicted what God has revealed through His prophets.

Since Jesus Christ's apostles cannot have revelation that contradicts what Jesus Christ has revealed through His prophets, it should be more than obvious that members cannot have revelation that contradicts what He has revealed through His prophets.

Stahura wrote:

Franco wrote: Elder Anderson was obviously unfamiliar with what Jesus Christ had revealed through His prophet on the earth. Apostles do not have revelation for the Church. Only the prophet can have revelation for the Church. Bruce McConkie, too, made a few claims that contradicted what God has revealed through His prophets.

Since Jesus Christ's apostles cannot have revelation that contradicts what Jesus Christ has revealed through His prophets, it should be more than obvious that members cannot have revelation that contradicts what He has revealed through His prophets.

Okay

Currently in my Bible, the footnote says Jesus Christ, Second Comforter on the scripture that Elder Anderson quoted. Now, the 2013 edition version of the bible, the footnote says Holy Ghost. So not only is Elder Anderson unfamiliar with what Jesus revealed through Joseph, but it seems that the church, or whatever Apostles approved the footnote changes also were not familiar with this..

what do you think?

also, just an observation(not criticism) that I made, is on LDS.org, there is an approved summary of the changes to the 2013 edition, including footnote changes. They have a HUGE list of footnote changes, but this specific scripture is left off of the list of footnote changes, even though it was changed.

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote:

Franco wrote:

Stahura wrote: So Franco, did Elder Anderson contradict Joseph Smith?
Or am I understanding something incorrectly?

If he did, what does that mean?

I will get back to you on that.

I'll hold you do that

Elder Anderson was obviously unfamiliar with what Jesus Christ had revealed through His prophet on the earth. Apostles do not have revelation for the Church. Only the prophet can have revelation for the Church. Bruce McConkie, too, made a few claims that contradicted what God has revealed through His prophets.

Since Jesus Christ's apostles cannot have revelation that contradicts what Jesus Christ has revealed through His prophets, it should be more than obvious that members cannot have revelation that contradicts what He has revealed through His prophets.

The ward heretic wrote: They are all ordained and sustained as prophets. Is the president of the church ordained and sustained differently?

Also, does a dead prophets words overrule the words of a living apostle?

Franco wrote:Elder Anderson was obviously unfamiliar with what Jesus Christ had revealed through His prophet on the earth. Apostles do not have revelation for the Church. Only the prophet can have revelation for the Church. Bruce McConkie, too, made a few claims that contradicted what God has revealed through His prophets.

Since Jesus Christ's apostles cannot have revelation that contradicts what Jesus Christ has revealed through His prophets, it should be more than obvious that members cannot have revelation that contradicts what He has revealed through His prophets.