LDS Freedom Forum

Sandinista wrote:Maybe we should ban forks and spoons because that's the tool overeaters who die from obesity use to "kill" themselves.

I eat pizza with my bare hands.

skmo wrote:

Robin Hood wrote:Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

Occasionally, those who live by the sword die by the shovel, or the axe, or the garrote.

The U.S. has BY FAR the highest number of guns per capita of all countries in the world. It's estimated that we have over 112 guns per 100 people, meaning we have more guns than people.

HOWEVER,

In terms of homicide rates, we come in at number 111 out of 218 countries or principalities.

Haters gonna hate. Killers gonna kill. Guns gonna protect my fat behind.

111 out of 218?
Oh that's fine then. Thank goodness you're not 112th.
Actually, both Canada and Switzerland are armed to the teeth but don't have the gun=murder problem the US has.
Apparently, so I'm told by my fellow board members, it's because you're afraid of the government. If you're afraid of the government shoot them, not each other!
I once saw a documentary featuring Americans living in France. I will always remember what they said. They said that in France "the government are afraid of the people and in America the people are afraid of the government".
People who live in fear are not free.

Robin Hood wrote:I know about the constitution and the right to bare arms etc, but a right is not necessarily an obligation. From here it appears that many Americans are either paranoid, or afraid.
My question is, what are they afraid of?

History reveals that once guns are removed from society, this is when genocide is easily put into action

The Genocide Chart: The Human Cost of Gun Control: http://www.sodahead.com/living/the-geno ... n-3448305/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In other words, let's give up our guns so that government can turn around and kill us with theirs...only we'll be on our knees and faces in the dirt.

But, hey, history never happens, right?

Robin Hood wrote:

skmo wrote:

Robin Hood wrote:Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

Occasionally, those who live by the sword die by the shovel, or the axe, or the garrote.

The U.S. has BY FAR the highest number of guns per capita of all countries in the world. It's estimated that we have over 112 guns per 100 people, meaning we have more guns than people.

HOWEVER,

In terms of homicide rates, we come in at number 111 out of 218 countries or principalities.

Haters gonna hate. Killers gonna kill. Guns gonna protect my fat behind.

111 out of 218?
Oh that's fine then. Thank goodness you're not 112th.
Actually, both Canada and Switzerland are armed to the teeth but don't have the gun=murder problem the US has.
Apparently, so I'm told by my fellow board members, it's because you're afraid of the government. If you're afraid of the government shoot them, not each other!
I once saw a documentary featuring Americans living in France. I will always remember what they said. They said that in France "the government are afraid of the people and in America the people are afraid of the government".
People who live in fear are not free.

Most of the known world lives in fear of our government...or more specifically...the cabal that controls it. If they don't...they're likely really ignorant of what makes the world go around...

Let's really put this into perspective. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in 2013 there were 10,076 deaths due to intoxicated (drunk) driving in the United States.

According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in 2011 (I know, different years but statistically its still relevant) there were a total of 16,121 homicides in the US, of which 11,208, or 69%, were by firearms of all types.

So what does this tell us? First there are a significant number of homicides, about 30%, which are committed by means other than firearms. That's interesting. If someone wants to kill they will find a way. Doesn't sound like "guns" are always to blame.

But more importantly, roughly the same number of people in the United States are killed each year by drunk drivers as are killed by guns. And we are not talking about "accidents", either with gun deaths or drunk driving deaths. In both scenarios it is a willful act by an individual that kills; an individual makes a conscious decision to do something that can result to serious bodily harm or death to another individual. In other words, no matter how painful the consequences may be either to themselves or to others, they exercise their free agency, that free agency that we are all granted by God. That same free agency, or liberty, that we as a people in the United States demanded was an "inalienable right" of every human being and threw off the yoke of the oppressive British Crown that tried to take that liberty away. And by doing so created the exact environment that was foreseen by prophets for ages necessary for the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be restored to the earth in the latter days, the last dispensation of time. The same Gospel that you, as member of the Church, enjoy the fruits of today even if you do not live in the United States. That took freedom to "bear arms" ,by the way.

So when we hear about a drunk driver killing a family of five on their way home from church do we immediately blame the car and not the driver? Of course not, that would be ludicrous. The car doesn't do anything on its own, Even more importantly, do we immediately start to scream for "car control"? Sure, we try to legislate "safety" features into our vehicles to try to protect drivers and passengers as much as possible. But we don't take away the car itself. Or how about "booze control"? Do we immediately demand that we eliminate all alcohol products from the market? If the alcohol would not have been available then the driver wouldn't have been drunk and wouldn't have driven while intoxicated thus killing the family. Nope, tried that one (Prohibition) and it sure didn't work! Or do we look for the solution to the unnecessary deaths by addressing the real problem, the individual and their unfortunate and inappropriate exercise of free agency. Do we look for solutions in the Gospel which teaches us to elevate and refine our intellect and spirit in order to freely choose the right in all things? Or do we take the way of Satan that we've fought against from the beginning and "force" obedience on all, which is exactly happens when Governments try to legislate or force behavior (its' called Socialism). Whether it be by onerous taxes and regulations hindering the free enterprise of their citizens, limiting the free exercise of religion, limiting individual liberty (and the responsibility for the consequences of our actions that accompany that liberty), or any number of other actions when a Government tries to do that they are on Satan's team.

My point is that all unnecessary deaths are tragic, but unfortunately a part of our mortal existence. But the answer is not to blame the tool, whether it be a gun, car, or whatever. The answer is to bring us all to a point where we value the lives of all our brothers and sisters as much as we do our own and make our choices accordingly. That's "liberty", which by definition requires personal responsibility, and the Christ like way. Not Satan's plan which is to just take away "liberty" and force, or control, behavior.

One other small point, there are a lot of uses for "guns" other than for killing. I have a rather large collection of guns and I haven't killed anything in decades. I used to hunt growing up in the Western United States but now don't do that much anymore. I use all my guns, including handguns, in competitions, sporting events, and in just relaxing with friends and family enjoying shooting. All of my weapons are locked in safes, anyone who has access to them is trained and follows strict firearm safety rules, and long before any of my children ever picked up a gun they were extensively trained, just like they were before they drove a car (another dangerous weapon). In my circle of family and friends no one has ever been harmed or killed by a firearm, but I have loved ones who have been harmed or killed by other "tools" such as airplanes, cars, construction equipment, hand tools, trees and logs, rivers and other waterways, etc. I haven't called for "control" of any of them.

Sorry for the tirade, but I'm frankly tired of people who don't live in the United States, but enjoy the benefits of the Gospel that was restored because of the existence of the our nation which was built on the principals of liberty and free agency reflected in our Constitution, including the 2nd Amendment. I'm tired of people who do not have a stake in our nation trying to preach about how we should live. I'm tired of the same old emotionally charged and inaccurate data and arguments repeated each time there is a tragedy caused by an individual's wrong choice (not the tool they used, but their choice to act in a way that caused harm). If you choose to give up your God given free agency, your liberty, to your government that is your choice. But please don't tell me that I should do the same.

Col. Flagg wrote:
Of course he is. X( How much longer before they go all out and issue a total private gun ban? I know the Prophet Joseph Smith issued a prophecy about guns being banned in the U.S. at some point - I think it was in conjunction to his prophecy about the next great civil war starting in Chicago owing to the devaluation of our currency, but can't recall exactly.

I would love to get my hands on Joseph Smith’s prophecy about guns being banned in the U.S. Any chance you might be able to find it?

Anyone else know about this prophecy? Please post if you have information about it!!!

friendsofthe wrote:

Col. Flagg wrote:
Of course he is. X( How much longer before they go all out and issue a total private gun ban? I know the Prophet Joseph Smith issued a prophecy about guns being banned in the U.S. at some point - I think it was in conjunction to his prophecy about the next great civil war starting in Chicago owing to the devaluation of our currency, but can't recall exactly.

I would love to get my hands on Joseph Smith’s prophecy about guns being banned in the U.S. Any chance you might be able to find it?

Anyone else know about this prophecy? Please post if you have information about it!!!

I would be very surprised if such a prophecy exists.

Jason wrote:Most of the known world lives in fear of our government...or more specifically...the cabal that controls it. If they don't...they're likely really ignorant of what makes the world go around...

+1. :ymapplause:

Sandinista wrote:According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in 2011 (I know, different years but statistically its still relevant) there were a total of 16,121 homicides in the US, of which 11,208, or 69%, were by firearms of all types.

How many of those were one scumbag killing another scumbag we're better off without? How many of those are people defending themselves against someone else trying to hurt them? Nice thing about statistics, one can use them to prove anything.

My point is that all unnecessary deaths are tragic, but unfortunately a part of our mortal existence.

We need to define who is dying before we can say it's tragic. If someone killed Michael Vick, not everyone would agree it was necessary or unnecessary, but I certainly wouldn't say it would be tragic. I'd say karma jumped up and bit his butt like one of his dogs should have done.