LDS Freedom Forum

Thinker wrote:Stahura,
I've appreciated many of your comments.
I think there is one time we didn't understand each other, but that's to be expected, since we're each coming from various backgrounds.

Don't take it personally when people attack you. It is like childish name-calling and logical fallacy (ad hominem), so it's usually more reflective of their issues than yours.

I wish you well in all your goals and in feeling and being guided by the spirit of Christ-like love.

I agree thinker. I try not to take your attacks on our church and leaders seriously, because it's more reflective of your issues.Ditto on

Thinker wrote:Stahura,
I've appreciated many of your comments.
I think there is one time we didn't understand each other, but that's to be expected, since we're each coming from various backgrounds.

Don't take it personally when people attack you. It is like childish name-calling and logical fallacy (ad hominem), so it's usually more reflective of their issues than yours.

I wish you well in all your goals and in feeling and being guided by the spirit of Christ-like love.

I agree thinker. I try not to take your attacks on our church and leaders seriously, because it's more reflective of your issues..

shadow wrote:

Stahura wrote:Look at those who are obsessed with their leaders and how they treat others who have questions and who are passionate about the Gospel. Their fruits are plainly manifest.

Do they treat a brother as Christ would?
Or do they turn them away and call them faithless like Elder Ballard told them not to?

Is that you, Jared?

I love when I am lurking and see that shadow continues to pull out amazing ironies like this one. The fact that I give you my time shows how I treat my brother who hates me. God is my witness and knows your heart as he does mine.

The real question we all should ask is, who is shadow, where might one read about his sincere insights, family, soul-stretching experiences, etc. so we can relate more to this mysterious shadow that lurks on the LDSFF? Or is mr. shadow anonymous (besides PM first name confessions) - which is opposite Christ's blog if you will - he was never anonymous with exception to the road to Emmaus, and that was only short lived...

Bee Prepared wrote:

rewcox wrote:

Stahura wrote:Every once in awhile I have said certain things and posted certain questions and quotes only to see the reaction of others. To see how they handle the inquiries of others and to see if they follow Elder Ballards counsel.

Actually, I've found your posts bizarre. You take a quote from a previous prophet, only posting some part of it. You don't post everything to get the context.

I think you are messed up. I don't believe you when you say you sustain the leaders.

I have 21 months of experience listening to posts such as yours and others. I can tell what is going on.

Yes, an experiment or deception?

I am not sure it warranted the title of deception; do you really?

What I found interesting is that when that Emmanuel character, God bless him, said he was Christ, none of the typical forum blowhards came in with the full wrath of petty judgment, green jello, and dismissal as they have done on countless threads about "the brethren."

I would bet my left [insert body part of your choosing] that if Emmanuel or anyone else posted that they were the one and only prophet of the church.......................BOOM!!! The four riders of the stone throwing apocalypse would gallop in to set him/her straight.....................................................down the path to hell.

Now of course this is speculation, but I just have a beer gut feeling this would be the case.

Blasphemy against Christ....not okay, but okay whatever.

Critical agains leaders.....spiritual death upon you and yours till the 5th generation!!!!

Something doesn't add up.

BrotherOfMahonri wrote:

shadow wrote:

Stahura wrote:Look at those who are obsessed with their leaders and how they treat others who have questions and who are passionate about the Gospel. Their fruits are plainly manifest.

Do they treat a brother as Christ would?
Or do they turn them away and call them faithless like Elder Ballard told them not to?

Is that you, Jared?

I love when I am lurking and see that shadow continues to pull out amazing ironies like this one. The fact that I give you my time shows how I treat my brother who hates me. God is my witness and knows your heart as he does mine.

The real question we all should ask is, who is shadow, where might one read about his sincere insights, family, soul-stretching experiences, etc. so we can relate more to this mysterious shadow that lurks on the LDSFF? Or is mr. shadow anonymous (besides PM first name confessions) - which is opposite Christ's blog if you will - he was never anonymous with exception to the road to Emmaus, and that was only short lived...

So it is you or it isnt? No deceit please.

shadow wrote:

BrotherOfMahonri wrote:

shadow wrote:

Stahura wrote:Look at those who are obsessed with their leaders and how they treat others who have questions and who are passionate about the Gospel. Their fruits are plainly manifest.

Do they treat a brother as Christ would?
Or do they turn them away and call them faithless like Elder Ballard told them not to?

Is that you, Jared?

I love when I am lurking and see that shadow continues to pull out amazing ironies like this one. The fact that I give you my time shows how I treat my brother who hates me. God is my witness and knows your heart as he does mine.

The real question we all should ask is, who is shadow, where might one read about his sincere insights, family, soul-stretching experiences, etc. so we can relate more to this mysterious shadow that lurks on the LDSFF? Or is mr. shadow anonymous (besides PM first name confessions) - which is opposite Christ's blog if you will - he was never anonymous with exception to the road to Emmaus, and that was only short lived...

So it is you or it isnt? No deceit please.[/quot

I think you're on to something Shadow.

shadow wrote:

BrotherOfMahonri wrote:

shadow wrote:

Stahura wrote:Look at those who are obsessed with their leaders and how they treat others who have questions and who are passionate about the Gospel. Their fruits are plainly manifest.

Do they treat a brother as Christ would?
Or do they turn them away and call them faithless like Elder Ballard told them not to?

Is that you, Jared?

I love when I am lurking and see that shadow continues to pull out amazing ironies like this one. The fact that I give you my time shows how I treat my brother who hates me. God is my witness and knows your heart as he does mine.

The real question we all should ask is, who is shadow, where might one read about his sincere insights, family, soul-stretching experiences, etc. so we can relate more to this mysterious shadow that lurks on the LDSFF? Or is mr. shadow anonymous (besides PM first name confessions) - which is opposite Christ's blog if you will - he was never anonymous with exception to the road to Emmaus, and that was only short lived...

So it is you or it isnt? No deceit please.

No, it's not him. Stahura's spelling and grammar are quite good.

Stacy Oliver wrote:
No, it's not him. Stahura's spelling and grammar are quite good.

:ymblushing:

The ward heretic wrote:

Bee Prepared wrote:

rewcox wrote:

Stahura wrote:Every once in awhile I have said certain things and posted certain questions and quotes only to see the reaction of others. To see how they handle the inquiries of others and to see if they follow Elder Ballards counsel.

Actually, I've found your posts bizarre. You take a quote from a previous prophet, only posting some part of it. You don't post everything to get the context.

I think you are messed up. I don't believe you when you say you sustain the leaders.

I have 21 months of experience listening to posts such as yours and others. I can tell what is going on.

Yes, an experiment or deception?

I am not sure it warranted the title of deception; do you really?

What I found interesting is that when that Emmanuel character, God bless him, said he was Christ, none of the typical forum blowhards came in with the full wrath of petty judgment, green jello, and dismissal as they have done on countless threads about "the brethren."

I would bet my left [insert body part of your choosing] that if Emmanuel or anyone else posted that they were the one and only prophet of the church.......................BOOM!!! The four riders of the stone throwing apocalypse would gallop in to set him/her straight.....................................................down the path to hell.

Now of course this is speculation, but I just have a beer gut feeling this would be the case.

Blasphemy against Christ....not okay, but okay whatever.

Critical agains leaders.....spiritual death upon you and yours till the 5th generation!!!!


Something doesn't add up.

Yes, deception, baiting, mocking and inflaming, and then playing the victim. What are you talking about concerning Emmanuel? He openly admitted he had been deceived. Personally I don't think you read all the posts, speaking of typical forum blowhards. The green jello was yummy, and I wouldn't bet your left anything, because I don't think you have one.( or two) The hot-headed approach and petty judgements you use are ok, right?
Step down " the ward heritic," and cool down, temper tantrums aren't attractive.

BeePrepared,
Some have the intuitive and common sense to NOT trust in the flesh, but to always trust in God, and worship only God, which means to do God's will before what any imperfect person may tell them to do.

If that is having "issues" then I hope I have them!

Yes, deception, baiting, mocking and inflaming, and then playing the victim. What are you talking about concerning Emmanuel? He openly admitted he had been deceived. Personally I don't think you read all the posts, speaking of typical forum blowhards. The green jello was yummy, and I wouldn't bet your left anything, because I don't think you have one.( or two) The hot-headed approach and petty judgements you use are ok, right?
Step down " the ward heritic," and cool down, temper tantrums aren't attractive.

Unfortunately you judge incorrectly. I am perfectly calm; not upset at all. You have been on this forums for awhile, you should learn not to assume ones emotion or temperament based on a few lines of text; but alas! It's a trap many fall into.

Listen bee, be known for you honey, not your sting!

Did you suggest I have no testicles or arms? You don't think I have one or two? Is there any call for that? Tis a shame, funny, but a shame. Oh the anonymity of the Internet. We should meet up some time for coffee and hot chocolate; I think you would like me.

But to the point, of course I didn't read all of the posts that Emmanuel wrote! Are you kidding. But instead of insults, maybe you could actually tell me why all the typical rank and file didn't start defending Christ like they do the church and brethren like so many times before?

Remember bee. Sting=bad, sweet honey=good. I have seen you do both. Stick with the sweet. It makes Jesus smile.

Thinker wrote:BeePrepared,
Some have the intuitive and common sense to NOT trust in the flesh, but to always trust in God, and worship only God, which means to do God's will before what any imperfect person may tell them to do.

If that is having "issues" then I hope I have them!

Simple and beautiful concept. I will never fully understand how this offends so many. Thanks.

14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.
16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.
20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

Though Thomas Monson, Spencer Kimball, John Taylor, And Joseph smith were in it, they shall deliver neither son or daughter, they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness

For ever 10 posts I see made about prophets apostles and leaders, I see one post about faith, or baptism, or the Holy Ghost, or our Savior Jesus.

What would Joseph Smith say?

president Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel–said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church–that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls–applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall–that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds…”
TPJS p.237


Trust not in the arm of flesh.

Let the accusations and judgements come. I know who my rock is.
Pray that seekers of truth can filter out the contention and philosophies of men that they may more fully understand the fullness of the Gospel that was restored in our day, and that they may been spiritually born of God and enjoy the blessings of heaven, and the gifts of the Spirit that come with being spiritually begotten.

I hold the same sentiment that Stahura has. I feel like there are a many that are dissenters(trolls) and others(very few) that actually "follow the light". I have felt the impression not to post personal things on here. I've written many posts, yet never posted because of this.

I've pretty much read A TON of posts on her and finally resorted to studying the scriptures and reading books to get my "fill" for knowledge. Anyways, still lurking, yet not too hopeful.

Stahura wrote:Trust not in the arm of flesh.

Let the accusations and judgements come. I know who my rock is.
Pray that seekers of truth can filter out the contention and philosophies of men that they may more fully understand the fullness of the Gospel that was restored in our day, and that they may been spiritually born of God and enjoy the blessings of heaven, and the gifts of the Spirit that come with being spiritually begotten.

Don't trust in your own arm of flesh, because you post quotes out of context. And then you go off on the leaders.

Denver Snuffer would take the same approach. Quote some scripture, say some good things, then attack the leaders in one form or another.

We do consider what you post and see the philosophy of your man.

Like I've said, we have experience so we can tell.

Jacob 6:8

8 Behold, will ye reject these words? Will ye reject the words of the prophets; and will ye reject all the words which have been spoken concerning Christ, after so many have spoken concerning him; and deny the good word of Christ, and the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and quench the Holy Spirit, and make a mock of the great plan of redemption, which hath been laid for you?

rewcox wrote:

Stahura wrote:Trust not in the arm of flesh.

Let the accusations and judgements come. I know who my rock is.
Pray that seekers of truth can filter out the contention and philosophies of men that they may more fully understand the fullness of the Gospel that was restored in our day, and that they may been spiritually born of God and enjoy the blessings of heaven, and the gifts of the Spirit that come with being spiritually begotten.

Don't trust in your own arm of flesh, because you post quotes out of context. And then you go off on the leaders.

Denver Snuffer would take the same approach. Quote some scripture, say some good things, then attack the leaders in one form or another.

We do consider what you post and see the philosophy of your man.

Like I've said, we have experience so we can tell.

You have a way of putting things into perspective rewcox.

Who should be my leader except God?
If a leader tells me to engage in corrupt financial practices, counter to God, but using Jesus's name in vain (to make money), I will not follow that leader.
If the leader teaches about choosing the right (what is of God not men) and letting the consequences follow, I'll do it because it is of God.

God is my God, NOT man.

The ward heretic wrote:

Yes, deception, baiting, mocking and inflaming, and then playing the victim. What are you talking about concerning Emmanuel? He openly admitted he had been deceived. Personally I don't think you read all the posts, speaking of typical forum blowhards. The green jello was yummy, and I wouldn't bet your left anything, because I don't think you have one.( or two) The hot-headed approach and petty judgements you use are ok, right?
Step down " the ward heritic," and cool down, temper tantrums aren't attractive.

Unfortunately you judge incorrectly. I am perfectly calm; not upset at all. You have been on this forums for awhile, you should learn not to assume ones emotion or temperament based on a few lines of text; but alas! It's a trap many fall into.

Listen bee, be known for you honey, not your sting!

Did you suggest I have no testicles or arms? You don't think I have one or two? Is there any call for that? Tis a shame, funny, but a shame. Oh the anonymity of the Internet. We should meet up some time for coffee and hot chocolate; I think you would like me.

But to the point, of course I didn't read all of the posts that Emmanuel wrote! Are you kidding. But instead of insults, maybe you could actually tell me why all the typical rank and file didn't start defending Christ like they do the church and brethren like so many times before?

Remember bee. Sting=bad, sweet honey=good. I have seen you do both. Stick with the sweet. It makes Jesus smile.

OH MY GOSH! you say something like this;

"I would bet my left [insert body part of your choosing] " and then ask me if there's any call for that.

The ward heretic wrote:
I am not sure it warranted the title of deception; do you really?

What I found interesting is that when that Emmanuel character, God bless him, said he was Christ, none of the typical forum blowhards came in with the full wrath of petty judgment, green jello, and dismissal as they have done on countless threads about "the brethren."

I would bet my left [insert body part of your choosing] that if Emmanuel or anyone else posted that they were the one and only prophet of the church.......................BOOM!!! The four riders of the stone throwing apocalypse would gallop in to set him/her straight.....................................................down the path to hell.

Now of course this is speculation, but I just have a beer gut feeling this would be the case.

Blasphemy against Christ....not okay, but okay whatever.

Critical agains leaders.....spiritual death upon you and yours till the 5th generation!!!!

Something doesn't add up.

I can only assume you are only vaguely aware of Emmanuel/Burningsword/etc.'s posts. It was pretty obvious he has some kind of mental issue, which is why the 'forum blowhards' such as I didn't give him our 'full wrath of petty judgment, green jello and dismissal'(and I have to ask, what about YOUR judgment...is it free of bias?). Maybe we aren't all creeps around here and actually feel some sympathy for others and don't go after people who need our patience. I find it disturbing that you perceived it as-- we only defend 'the brethren' and not Christ. Pretty low opinion you have of us.

As for Stahura, I don't see mental illness in his posts, though I see a person who is confused--he seems to have one foot in the church and one foot on it's virtual neck. At times his posts sound like a believer but when he feels he's losing an argument, he'll throw ANYONE under the bus--he did this to Pres. Joseph F. Smith in one thread and a number of people pointed it out.

And frankly, this 'test' of his does remind me of BrotherofMahonri (BoM likes to make these kinds of posts), I can see why some suggested they might be the same poster. However, I highly doubt that, other than this annoying habit they share, they don't sound the same.

I say this with the hopes of being helpful.

Think about all of the energy and time spent talking negatively about another person. It will always seem justified in the moment. But, when you strip away all the pride, all the pomp, and all rationalizations what we are left with is a situation where many people are using words, time, and energy in a way that is not uplifting to other people. It is self-serving to make jabs and witty remarks towards others. It is fun and it can be entertaining. It is especially enticing when you have a group of friends who support you and validate your behavior. It feels good but it doesn't edify, build up, uplift, or bring about good purposes.

It seems so easy to see that Satan wants us to spend time talking about each other and our flaws rather than spending time talking about truth and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

-Finrock

Finrock wrote:It seems so easy to see that Satan wants us to spend time talking about each other and our flaws rather than spending time talking about truth and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

-Finrock

Can't even agree on the truth.

I love my Savior, this is his Church. I sustain the current leaders, and I've never claimed anything else.

And I'd prefer talking about faith and the 4 levels of faith that David Bednar taught, and repentance, and the layers of repentance, and of being born again and the blessings that came with it. This is what I want to speak of. This is what uplifts me.

rewcox wrote:Can't even agree on the truth.

I think all can agree to the truth that as Christ has loved us, so must we love one another.

-Finrock