Who has jumped off the Denver Snuffer train?

[Jason]

I highly doubt it.

At one point in time couple years back...

[freedomforall]

Who would want to join another forum just to discuss DS? Everything about him has been discussed ad nauseam as it is right here.
The Snufferites talk about Snuffer and his philosophy.
The non-Snufferites talk about Christ and his teachings.
Yet others think that Snuffer had something good to say, but then they woke up and came back to the right path. ;)

Some leave the main path and go down forbidden paths.
Others stay on the path and are not moved by every wind of doctrine.

Some leave the path and see the remaining people on the path as fallen, belonging to a church with lousy leaders and no keys.
Others remain on the path knowing that scripture talks about people leaving the path and becoming apostate.

Some people look to false teachers and leave the path.
Others stay on the path knowing that false teachers will arise and try to get people to leave the path.

Lehi and Nephi knew what they were talking about according to the vision they shared, I'd say.

[AI2.0]

Who would want to join another forum just to discuss DS? Everything about him has been discussed ad nauseam as it is right here.
The Snufferites talk about Snuffer and his philosophy.
The non-Snufferites talk about Christ and his teachings.
Yet others think that Snuffer had something good to say, but then they woke up and came back to the right path. ;)

Some leave the main path and go down forbidden paths.
Others stay on the path and are not moved by every wind of doctrine.

Some leave the path and see the remaining people on the path as fallen, belonging to a church with lousy leaders and no keys.
Others remain on the path knowing that scripture talks about people leaving the path and becoming apostate.

Some people look to false teachers and leave the path.
Others stay on the path knowing that false teachers will arise and try to get people to leave the path.

Lehi and Nephi knew what they were talking about according to the vision they shared, I'd say.

Sometimes when I'm bored and want to read discussions, I come here and there is nothing that interests me. So then I go look at other message forums to see if there is anything interesting to read. I don't read Tim Malone's blog or Denver Snuffer's Blog because I agree with them, I read because I'm looking for discussion that might peak my interest.

When I looked in on the Remnant forum, I recognized many of the user names from here, some who'd disappeared from here or been hidden away in the HG forum for the last year and I was curious what they'd been up to. Surprisingly, most of what I read was not about DS.

[briznian]

Who would want to join another forum just to discuss DS? ...

...
Surprisingly, most of what I read was not about DS.

You're starting from the wrong premise FFA. Nobody that I know of wants to join another forum just to discuss DS. But there are many who wish to be able to discuss a wide variety of topics (including what DS has written/spoken about) without being called names for it ALL of the time.

Like AI2.0 said, the top 10 active posts on the forum at this moment are:

1. Renounce War and Proclaim Peace
2. This and That.
3. Whatever God requires is right
4. Why Polygamy is wrong
5. Name Change?
6. Left his family for Denver Snuffer?
7. The Core Doctrine of Babylon
8. Best Books n Stuff [my comments: None of the books listed were written by DS]
9. 1835 D&C?
10. Some fun hummingbird myths I thought I'd share

There is only one post that references DS and it is universal condemnation of the actions of the people using DS to justify abhorrent (my words) behavior. None of the other posts have anything to do with DS whatsoever and that is representative across the board. Probably <10% of the topics have anything to do with him.

[freedomforall]

Who would want to join another forum just to discuss DS? Everything about him has been discussed ad nauseam as it is right here.
The Snufferites talk about Snuffer and his philosophy.
The non-Snufferites talk about Christ and his teachings.
Yet others think that Snuffer had something good to say, but then they woke up and came back to the right path. ;)

Some leave the main path and go down forbidden paths.
Others stay on the path and are not moved by every wind of doctrine.

Some leave the path and see the remaining people on the path as fallen, belonging to a church with lousy leaders and no keys.
Others remain on the path knowing that scripture talks about people leaving the path and becoming apostate.

Some people look to false teachers and leave the path.
Others stay on the path knowing that false teachers will arise and try to get people to leave the path.

Lehi and Nephi knew what they were talking about according to the vision they shared, I'd say.

Sometimes when I'm bored and want to read discussions, I come here and there is nothing that interests me. So then I go look at other message forums to see if there is anything interesting to read. I don't read Tim Malone's blog or Denver Snuffer's Blog because I agree with them, I read because I'm looking for discussion that might peak my interest.

When I looked in on the Remnant forum, I recognized many of the user names from here, some who'd disappeared from here or been hidden away in the HG forum for the last year and I was curious what they'd been up to. Surprisingly, most of what I read was not about DS.

I find that I wrote the question incorrectly. I should have left out the word "just." Then the following point that elucidates it would have had more impact.

It was meant to read thus: Who would want to join another forum to discuss DS? This implies that DS is discussed here one way or another.

Then comes the reason why: Everything about him has been discussed ad nauseam as it is, right here.

And the word "everything" could be a stretch because, perhaps, not everything has been discussed on the main forum. I do believe, however, the PTHG forum was used to discuss him in depth, based on what other posters have related over time.

So to put my question differently, why would anyone go to another forum where DS could be discussed, when you can stay right here and discuss him simply knowing there are many threads already about him? Including this one.

Simply type is the search engine the words Denver Snuffer and you'll see 43 hits for thread titles alone, going back to Apr of 2010. I'd say this is to the point of ad nauseam level.
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keyw ... y&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AI2.0]

FFA, I see your point, I can agree that if I WANTED to discuss DS, I'd do it here, not on a pro-DS website. If I were to post there, I assume I would have to not argue or challenge his teachings, as that would be inappropriate. I'm more likely to not post on other message forums, I'm mostly a 'lurker'.

[BMC]

FFA, I see your point, I can agree that if I WANTED to discuss DS, I'd do it here, not on a pro-DS website. If I were to post there, I assume I would have to not argue or challenge his teachings, as that would be inappropriate. I'm more likely to not post on other message forums, I'm mostly a 'lurker'.

You assumed incorrectly, however, If their is an issue and you want to discuss it, do it, if you want to challenge a particular point, do it. Just don't do the following in the process: derail others threads, become abusive of those who disagree with you, spamming the same message over and over again like a dog chasing its tail, taking every thread and post and some how relating it back to DS. Not everyone has to respond to your comments or questions, if you don't like someone's answer don't abuse them for not answering the way you wanted them too.

It's rather simple, be kind to one another. Be courteous and don't take offense even if offense was intended. In other words be charitable, Christ like and love one another and let us reason together that we might have a better understand of each other and the things of God.

[rewcox]

Just don't do the following in the process: derail others threads, become abusive of those who disagree with you, spamming the same message over and over again like a dog chasing its tail, taking every thread and post and some how relating it back to DS. Not everyone has to respond to your comments or questions, if you don't like someone's answer don't abuse them for not answering the way you wanted them too.

It's rather simple, be kind to one another. Be courteous and don't take offense even if offense was intended. In other words be charitable, Christ like and love one another and let us reason together that we might have a better understand of each other and the things of God.

We have some of that dog chasing its tail around here.

[freedomforall]

Just don't do the following in the process: derail others threads, become abusive of those who disagree with you, spamming the same message over and over again like a dog chasing its tail, taking every thread and post and some how relating it back to DS. Not everyone has to respond to your comments or questions, if you don't like someone's answer don't abuse them for not answering the way you wanted them too.

It's rather simple, be kind to one another. Be courteous and don't take offense even if offense was intended. In other words be charitable, Christ like and love one another and let us reason together that we might have a better understand of each other and the things of God.

We have some of that dog chasing its tail around here.

Ya, and it keeps whipping around and smacking people in the face.

[Jalden]

Who has jumped off the Denver Snuffer Train?

I at one time seriously entertained Denver's claims to authority, altho there was always 'red flags' along the way. Still I continued to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I no longer give him any special credence.

What are my reasons? His 10 talks were all supposedly all about "preserving the restoration" and preserving what Joseph taught and revealed, and yet so many of the things Denver has said flatly contradict the scriptures - particularly the D&C. I know people will want references so I give just a few (there are many more). The sustaining by 7 women. The D&C says it is to be by the entire congregation, and I cant really see how a small sample of the congregation is better - especially when it contradicts the previous revelation by Joseph - Isn't that what he criticizes the church for doing - improvising or improving upon what Joseph revealed and thereby amending, altering, or abandoning the original revealed pattern?

Tithing without bishops. the D&C has many references to bishops being the stewards over the temporal affairs of the church, managing tithing and consecrated funds, etc., but despite this, Denver advocates no bishops. There is no talk of bishops - in fact, offices are rejected generally (even tho they are spoken of in the Book of Mormon as being part of the church). Now, I'm not saying that what is being done is bad. Maybe it is better. I do think the church has been doing tithing wrong - and I came to this conclusion long before Denver ever came around. It is just hypocritical to say you are trying to preserve the restoration (which the church has failed to do), then go ahead and reject the revelations in the D&C willy nilly. If you think you have a better idea than Joseph did, or a better revelation, then say so. Don't claim to be returning to what Joseph did, then do something completely different.

Like I said, there are many more contradictions.

Some might say, that these discrepancies are due to the early saints being given revelations to match their wants, or that some things in the D&C will be required later, but now we are just working up to them. That's fine. Just don't say you are preserving the restoration, when in fact you are going in a different direction (granted, it is a similar, but still a different direction - this is what makes for different denominations).

Lastly, I tire of his lawyerly ways. He has claimed not to criticize the brethren, when he obviously has. He is like one of my children. One claims the other keeps "touching them" while we are driving in the car. So, I have the offending child fold their arms. A short while later, a complaint arises that they are still touching the other child. I look back but the arms are still folded. They claim innocently that they never unfolded their arms and that they have kept their hands to themselves. I turn around and watch in the mirror as the child with the folded arms begins to nudge and rub the other child with his elbow. He pretends to be surprised when he is disciplined (because he has done nothing to offend the church), and I just roll my eyes. The thing is, I agree with many of his criticisms of the church - I just don't know why he would claim that he wasn't when he so clearly was. it is ridiculous.

He says one thing and does another, and he contradicts himself so incredibly often. Oh well. I still like a lot of what he has said, and what he still says. I just don't grant it any special authority. I am on my own path.

Peace.

PS does anyone else find it funny that Passing the Heavenly Gift has a picture of a snuffed, smoking candle on it and was written by a man named 'Snuffer'?

[freedomforall]

Who has jumped off the Denver Snuffer Train?

I at one time seriously entertained Denver's claims to authority, altho there was always 'red flags' along the way. Still I continued to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I no longer give him any special credence.

What are my reasons? His 10 talks were all supposedly all about "preserving the restoration" and preserving what Joseph taught and revealed, and yet so many of the things Denver has said flatly contradict the scriptures - particularly the D&C. I know people will want references so I give just a few (there are many more). The sustaining by 7 women. The D&C says it is to be by the entire congregation, and I cant really see how a small sample of the congregation is better - especially when it contradicts the previous revelation by Joseph - Isn't that what he criticizes the church for doing - improvising or improving upon what Joseph revealed and thereby amending, altering, or abandoning the original revealed pattern?

Tithing without bishops. the D&C has many references to bishops being the stewards over the temporal affairs of the church, managing tithing and consecrated funds, etc., but despite this, Denver advocates no bishops. There is no talk of bishops - in fact, offices are rejected generally (even tho they are spoken of in the Book of Mormon as being part of the church). Now, I'm not saying that what is being done is bad. Maybe it is better. I do think the church has been doing tithing wrong - and I came to this conclusion long before Denver ever came around. It is just hypocritical to say you are trying to preserve the restoration (which the church has failed to do), then go ahead and reject the revelations in the D&C willy nilly. If you think you have a better idea than Joseph did, or a better revelation, then say so. Don't claim to be returning to what Joseph did, then do something completely different.

Like I said, there are many more contradictions.

Some might say, that these discrepancies are due to the early saints being given revelations to match their wants, or that some things in the D&C will be required later, but now we are just working up to them. That's fine. Just don't say you are preserving the restoration, when in fact you are going in a different direction (granted, it is a similar, but still a different direction - this is what makes for different denominations).

Lastly, I tire of his lawyerly ways. He has claimed not to criticize the brethren, when he obviously has. He is like one of my children. One claims the other keeps "touching them" while we are driving in the car. So, I have the offending child fold their arms. A short while later, a complaint arises that they are still touching the other child. I look back but the arms are still folded. They claim innocently that they never unfolded their arms and that they have kept their hands to themselves. I turn around and watch in the mirror as the child with the folded arms begins to nudge and rub the other child with his elbow. He pretends to be surprised when he is disciplined (because he has done nothing to offend the church), and I just roll my eyes. The thing is, I agree with many of his criticisms of the church - I just don't know why he would claim that he wasn't when he so clearly was. it is ridiculous.

He says one thing and does another, and he contradicts himself so incredibly often. Oh well. I still like a lot of what he has said, and what he still says. I just don't grant it any special authority. I am on my own path.

Peace.

PS does anyone else find it funny that Passing the Heavenly Gift has a picture of a snuffed, smoking candle on it and was written by a man named 'Snuffer'?

I suppose some people in Christ's day gave him the benefit of the doubt as well, but look what happened anyway. The doubt grew into hate until they hung Jesus on a cross. People tend to follow less than perfect doctrines because of hate and being cut to the core by their sins. Others seek Christ and his pure and true gospel and are willing to change and embrace his teachings...no matter how much it hurts.

[rewcox]

Who has jumped off the Denver Snuffer Train?

DS made a post in Oct 2013 where he said the book he wrote didn't claim to be true.

So why do people believe him?

[Ezra]

Who has jumped off the Denver Snuffer Train?

DS made a post in Oct 2013 where he said the book he wrote didn't claim to be true.

So why do people believe him?

I've always wondered why he worded it that way.

Like the book doesn't claim itself to be true.
Yet ds seems to not make a comment himself???

It's kinda weird wordin

[marc]

Who has jumped off the Denver Snuffer Train?

DS made a post in Oct 2013 where he said the book he wrote didn't claim to be true.

So why do people believe him?

I've always wondered why he worded it that way.

Like the book doesn't claim itself to be true.
Yet ds seems to not make a comment himself???

It's kinda weird wordin

I recently read a post on this forum, which I can't find right now, where someone wrote to President Monson (or maybe a previous GA) asking if he was a true prophet of God. A letter was sent with a reply to the effect that he refused to answer it. The point was that the person who wrote the letter should ask God instead whether President Monson (or previous GA) is a true prophet. I suppose the point is the same. What good does it do if the book claims it is true?

Just my 2 cents, anyway. Take it with a grain of salt.

[Ezra]

Does the Book of Mormon claim to be true?

[marc]

Does the Book of Mormon claim to be true?

It seems to follow the same formula.

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

[Ezra]

I like to be different so I'm going to say it here and now.

I'm true. I'm man through and through.

[marc]

I find it interesting that Moroni challenges us to ask if "these things are not true. It's as if he is channeling Paul, who, of course, channeled the Spirit in declaring that we believe all things, hope all things, etc. Should we not apply the same formula to all queries wherein we lack wisdom, just as the GA did with that letter? The formula seems to be:

1. Receive
2. ask God in the name of Christ
3. if it is NOT true
4. with a sincere heart
5. with real intent
6. having faith in Christ

Personally speaking I haven't received an answer regarding DS one way or another. I have, however gained much wisdom from his writings, many of his conclusions of which, I have also drawn. My final analysis:

All is not well in Zion. But I didn't need DS to tell me that. It's in Isaiah and the Book of Mormon and D&C.

[marc]

I like to be different so I'm going to say it here and now.

I'm true. I'm man through and through.

I believe you.

[rewcox]

Does the Book of Mormon claim to be true?

It seems to follow the same formula.

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

Well, the Savior gives us a strong hint:
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

The Savior also told us the church was true.

[freedomforall]

I like to be different so I'm going to say it here and now.

I'm true. I'm man through and through.

Man 1: Will you tell the guy you are afraid?
Man 2: Well, I, I don't know if I can.
Man 1: What's the matter with you? Are you a man or a mouse? Come on, squeak up!

Really, I hear that a real man............loves Jesus. So I suppose this is why you're a man through and through, huh? I thought so.

[freedomforall]

Does the Book of Mormon claim to be true?

It seems to follow the same formula.

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

Well, the Savior gives us a strong hint:
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

The Savior also told us the church was true.

Isn't it now?

[marc]

Squeak up! Bahahaha! :))

[rewcox]

Well, the Savior gives us a strong hint:
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

The Savior also told us the church was true.

Isn't it now?

Yes, except at LDSFF.

[Jesef]

Would a child of Christ choose contention? What is contention? Heated/angry disagreement, disputation, argument, discord, conflict, friction, strife, etc.? Isn't there always just a little bit of anger when we just have to prove our point? What is Love/Charity if not harmlessness and helpfulness? Just sharing some thoughts. May you all be blessed and healed and filled and loved!