Who has jumped off the Denver Snuffer train?

[freedomforall]

Or he just felt his points were being ignored or brushed away.
I know what it feels like to be on his side of things, having been kicked out of groups before myself.
People eventually find it easier to misconstrue someone as contentious than address their issues.

All of his posts are in the public domain. You are welcome to search them out. Here, on Tim Malone's site or the other forum.

As an aside, people tend to couch their disruptions as "just asking questions"/"seeking truth". I never saw anyone say "I just want everyone to agree with my preconceived notions".

Again, I know what it feels like to be on his side of things.
I don't need to go there to see it as you are doing what he complained of here.
I've seen plenty of times where people refuse to understand me and then accuse me of being what you accuse of him here.
Look, you already twisted his words to accuse him of arguing with himself to try and make him look foolish.
You deserve zero credibility for this obvious blunder on your part, which carries over to who and what you defend.

[freedomforall]

Or he just felt his points were being ignored or brushed away.
I know what it feels like to be on his side of things, having been kicked out of groups before myself.
People eventually find it easier to misconstrue someone as contentious than address their issues.

All of his posts are in the public domain. You are welcome to search them out. Here, on Tim Malone's site or the other forum.

As an aside, people tend to couch their disruptions as "just asking questions"/"seeking truth". I never saw anyone say "I just want everyone to agree with my preconceived notions".

Again, I know what it feels like to be on his side of things.
I don't need to go there to see it as you are doing what he complained of here.
I've seen plenty of times where people refuse to understand me and then accuse me of being what you accuse of him here.
Look, you already twisted his words to accuse him of arguing with himself to try and make him look foolish.
You deserve zero credibility for this obvious blunder on your part, which carries over to who and what you defend.

(Referencing Freedomforall)

Now I realize all over again why I had you on my foe list for a while. Keep it up and you'll be right back there in a jiffy.

I can't imagine why people find you disagreeable...

=)) =)) =))

[freedomforall]

All of his posts are in the public domain. You are welcome to search them out. Here, on Tim Malone's site or the other forum.

As an aside, people tend to couch their disruptions as "just asking questions"/"seeking truth". I never saw anyone say "I just want everyone to agree with my preconceived notions".

Again, I know what it feels like to be on his side of things.
I don't need to go there to see it as you are doing what he complained of here.
I've seen plenty of times where people refuse to understand me and then accuse me of being what you accuse of him here.
Look, you already twisted his words to accuse him of arguing with himself to try and make him look foolish.
You deserve zero credibility for this obvious blunder on your part, which carries over to who and what you defend.

(Referencing Freedomforall)

Now I realize all over again why I had you on my foe list for a while. Keep it up and you'll be right back there in a jiffy.

I can't imagine why people find you disagreeable...

You are attacking people, like I pointed out earlier.
The reason I said this to FFA is for pretty much the same reason.
And, now, you are showing yourself to be of his same spirit.
He could simply apologize when I raise a grievance with him.
However, he does pretty much what you are now doing here.
You have now joined him on my ignore list.

Just check the last few posts and see who is attacking whom. I see innocence has no limit. Perhaps I ought to apologize for being so perceptive. Go figure!
Saying that prophets can deceive people, somehow condoned by God in so many words? Now that's a new one. And all I did was prove otherwise using the same scriptures.

And, in Ezekiel 14 it says that God will even allow true prophets to be a party to those who deserve to be deceived if the people have it coming. Read 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 where God says He purposely allows the Man of Sin to stand in His temple committing blasphemy so that those who do not love the truth are taken in their own lies and deception. It also says this in Isaiah chapter 66 that God will have people given over to their own delusions because they do not delight in His truth. He also says in Romans chapter 1 that there are those who hold the truths of God but they fancy themselves as being more wise and God's truths as foolishness. Therefore, God says He delivers them up to their own lusts and in due time it is eventually manifested through their works in the flesh how they became corrupted in their spirits.

And then there was the claim that our leaders will become sons of perdition via spirit blood, or something like this. Where does this come from?

I mean, someone please decipher this and see what is being said here. To me, the message isn't very nice.

I'll put it another way. We were commanded to keep Celestial Laws and told that these Celestial Laws were immutable and unchangeable and that if they were changed or neglected that we would put ourselves under the buffetings of the adversary and damn ourselves and disqualify ourselves from divine protection from the Father. This is why the whole church was placed under condemnation, which condemnation was confirmed to yet be upon us as late as 1988. We could be and should be living Celestial Law in the Father's Celestial Kingdom right now. We are living under Telestial Law and subjected to the usurpation and buffetings of the adversary because this is what we collectively have chosen. The vast majority of saints have the outward notion that we are just waiting for the day when our leaders tell us to start living the higher laws and then they will worry about it. However, the leaders won't receive any such inspiration to redeem us to these higher laws until we repent of our slothful and neglectful attitude towards them. And, unfortunately, our leaders are paying a very dear price to carry out what it is that the masses want done. The tares want the wheat choked out and the manner by which the wheat's "breath" is extinguished is by spiritual capital punishment, which is the shedding of innocent blood. The Holy Ghost is denied to those who are in fact worthy and those who participate in this have shed innocent spiritual blood and shall receive perdition.

The people are slaughtering the wheat and condemning many of our leaders to perdition to have it done.

The church will survive all of this because its time of being cleansed and set in order will come, but so far we are paying a horrible price in the meantime. This is why it says when Lucifer was finally clearly seen and identified and cast down that the heavens wept greatly. The calamities will come and bring all of this to a head and so our leaders need our prayers more than ever before because the traditions and the precepts of men are extremely powerful and it will incline them to shed innocent blood more and more as the tares consolidate their power and influence and try to make their usurpation of the Father's Plan complete.

[AI2.0]

He is talking here about his experience on THEIR forum.
The one that he was kicked off of because they wouldn't address his issues.

Jesef has not been accurate in his portrayal of the events on that forum.

I wouldn't know since I wasn't there and wasn't a witness to it all.
But, if he was treated similar to what I just saw, I'd be inclined to believe him.

He was removed from that forum because he tends pick fights. Just like he did here With his online tantrum.

Anyway, his initial question was over the "in the body" language used in the scriptures and repeated by Denver. I have provided the information he was asking for. I doubt he will find it sufficient though because he began with the conclusion and never had anything in mind except for fighting.

Well, now I know who to believe. Not you, Briznian.

Jesef was even tempered and fair and very accommodating of all views in his thread. There was no 'online tantrum' on this site. And considering your inaccurate claims, I seriously doubt he was guilty of picking fights. I think he bested those who argued with him and proved that there are problems with your Prophet's claims and you didn't like it. I think your Prophet's followers kicked him off their website because they didn't like him bringing up things that made they upset.

[AI2.0]

Or he just felt his points were being ignored or brushed away.
I know what it feels like to be on his side of things, having been kicked out of groups before myself.
People eventually find it easier to misconstrue someone as contentious than address their issues.

All of his posts are in the public domain. You are welcome to search them out. Here, on Tim Malone's site or the other forum.

As an aside, people tend to couch their disruptions as "just asking questions"/"seeking truth". I never saw anyone say "I just want everyone to agree with my preconceived notions".

Actually, they aren't--the Remnant forum has been closed from public viewing. That's one thing I've learned about Snuffer followers. They like to hide their activities from the prying eyes of others.

[freedomforall]

Or he just felt his points were being ignored or brushed away.
I know what it feels like to be on his side of things, having been kicked out of groups before myself.
People eventually find it easier to misconstrue someone as contentious than address their issues.

All of his posts are in the public domain. You are welcome to search them out. Here, on Tim Malone's site or the other forum.

As an aside, people tend to couch their disruptions as "just asking questions"/"seeking truth". I never saw anyone say "I just want everyone to agree with my preconceived notions".

Actually, they aren't--the Remnant forum has been closed from public viewing. That's one thing I've learned about Snuffer followers. They like to hide their activities from the prying eyes of others.

Christ knows. This is what is most important, right?

[BMC]

Well, now I know who to believe. Not you, Briznian.

Jesef was even tempered and fair and very accommodating of all views in his thread. There was no 'online tantrum' on this site. And considering your inaccurate claims, I seriously doubt he was guilty of picking fights. I think he bested those who argued with him and proved that there are problems with your Prophet's claims and you didn't like it. I think your Prophet's followers kicked him off their website because they didn't like him bringing up things that made they upset.

AI2.0 Jesef & NFR aka Minority of One were removed from the forum because of breaking forum rules.

As an aside, the forums purpose is to discuss the gospel of Christ, Joseph Smith and the restoration, Denver Snuffer, was and is the only focus and center of discussion that these two clamored around. I don't want the forum to be about Denver Snuffer, he isn't important to me. Some of the things he espouses I believe to be true, but I have believed many things independent of him, things that are years in the making before he came along. There are some things that I disagree with.

Unlike those mentioned above, I do not think or feel that I need to rebuttal Denver or the things he espouses as truth, I simply move on and connect with God myself, these two were unable too discuss at length anything else pertaining to anything but Denver, therein lies the problem.

I recently changed the forum to members only view for my own purposes, primarily to grow the membership, there is a lot of lurking from all over the world I would like those who are searching if they feel so inclined to join the forum and participate to do so and get involved, those who have serious inquiries will join so they can continue to lurk, and the other occasional lurker will join and run back here or else where to tattle and have some sort of discussion. You or anyone is welcome to come join, lurk and or participate or not, I only ask those who do participate which is a simple request read the forums rules and abide by them.

This thread has been heavily edited, tantrums and tirades and the such have been removed. Briznian is correct. Picking fights may be the wrong verbiage, but the idea nonetheless one can draw from it is accurate. It is naive to think how one conducts themselves among friends would generally be the same for how they conduct themselves with those whom they generally oppose and are at odds with.

I admire Jesef's dedication and effort to prove Denver wrong and his message as false. He has spent a lot of energy, heartache too it seems. I could imagine a better way to spend my time, spending that energy and time pursuing my own salvation, the salvation of my family and friends and coming to and knowing God according to my conscience and understanding. The God of my understanding knows I am powerless to change others, and I am learning to accept the things I cannot change. So with that I don't seek to change others but instead to serve and help others.

Serenity Prayer for Jesef, say it with me:

God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
enjoying one moment at a time;
accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
that I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
forever in the next.
Amen.

[deep water]

I should have kept my nose out of this!

[jeffreyrichardson_]

Deep water, where did you get that Denver is on a forum?

[creator]

I highly doubt it.

[deep water]

Ditto!

[creator]

The "remnant forum" is not this forum. I also doubt Denver would be on any forum, but anything is possible.

[briznian]

Deep water is confused. I was talking about the OP, not Denver.

[Jeremy]

That's one thing I've learned about Snuffer followers. They like to hide their activities from the prying eyes of others.

=))

look-mirror.png (55.2 KiB) Viewed 2273 times

[AI2.0]

That's one thing I've learned about Snuffer followers. They like to hide their activities from the prying eyes of others.

=))

look-mirror.png

(Sorry to derail the thread but I have to ask)

I have no idea what you're trying to suggest with this. Are you privy to my posting practices? @-)

[freedomforall]

Deep water, where did you get that Denver is on a forum?

Possibly more like his own blog only where he has written his material. This link is only shown as a slight indication purposely, for I do not advocate the material: denversnufferblogspot.com

[AI2.0]

Well, now I know who to believe. Not you, Briznian.

Jesef was even tempered and fair and very accommodating of all views in his thread. There was no 'online tantrum' on this site. And considering your inaccurate claims, I seriously doubt he was guilty of picking fights. I think he bested those who argued with him and proved that there are problems with your Prophet's claims and you didn't like it. I think your Prophet's followers kicked him off their website because they didn't like him bringing up things that made they upset.

AI2.0 Jesef & NFR aka Minority of One were removed from the forum because of breaking forum rules.

As an aside, the forums purpose is to discuss the gospel of Christ, Joseph Smith and the restoration, Denver Snuffer, was and is the only focus and center of discussion that these two clamored around. I don't want the forum to be about Denver Snuffer, he isn't important to me. Some of the things he espouses I believe to be true, but I have believed many things independent of him, things that are years in the making before he came along. There are some things that I disagree with.

Unlike those mentioned above, I do not think or feel that I need to rebuttal Denver or the things he espouses as truth, I simply move on and connect with God myself, these two were unable too discuss at length anything else pertaining to anything but Denver, therein lies the problem.

I recently changed the forum to members only view for my own purposes, primarily to grow the membership, there is a lot of lurking from all over the world I would like those who are searching if they feel so inclined to join the forum and participate to do so and get involved, those who have serious inquiries will join so they can continue to lurk, and the other occasional lurker will join and run back here or else where to tattle and have some sort of discussion. You or anyone is welcome to come join, lurk and or participate or not, I only ask those who do participate which is a simple request read the forums rules and abide by them.

This thread has been heavily edited, tantrums and tirades and the such have been removed. Briznian is correct. Picking fights may be the wrong verbiage, but the idea nonetheless one can draw from it is accurate. It is naive to think how one conducts themselves among friends would generally be the same for how they conduct themselves with those whom they generally oppose and are at odds with.

I admire Jesef's dedication and effort to prove Denver wrong and his message as false. He has spent a lot of energy, heartache too it seems. I could imagine a better way to spend my time, spending that energy and time pursuing my own salvation, the salvation of my family and friends and coming to and knowing God according to my conscience and understanding. The God of my understanding knows I am powerless to change others, and I am learning to accept the things I cannot change. So with that I don't seek to change others but instead to serve and help others.

Serenity Prayer for Jesef, say it with me:

God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
enjoying one moment at a time;
accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
that I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
forever in the next.
Amen.

Fair enough.
I must concede, the moderators here do edit and remove whole sections of posts and even complete threads have disappeared at times, so I can't for certain know if there was bad behavior on Jesef's part, I can only say I didn't see it.

[freedomforall]

That's one thing I've learned about Snuffer followers. They like to hide their activities from the prying eyes of others.

This scripture may corroborate your statement.
Ps. 1:1 (1–2)
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

[EmmaLee]

That's one thing I've learned about Snuffer followers. They like to hide their activities from the prying eyes of others.

=))

look-mirror.png

(Sorry to derail the thread but I have to ask)

I have no idea what you're trying to suggest with this. Are you privy to my posting practices? @-)

My guess would be he considers you a "TBM" and since he considers the LDS Church to be "secretive" and "hiding activities", etc. you, by default, are as well, and are laughed at and told to look in a mirror. Never mind that when the entirely pro-Snuffer sub-forum "Heavenly Gift" was up and running here on LDSFF, it was "hidden" from the prying eyes of others and you had to have permission to read/post there. Same with the "Remnant of Jacob" forum. Oh, and same with their Facebook group(s). So in truth, AI2.0, you speak the truth.

[BMC]

That's one thing I've learned about Snuffer followers. They like to hide their activities from the prying eyes of others.

=))

look-mirror.png

(Sorry to derail the thread but I have to ask)

I have no idea what you're trying to suggest with this. Are you privy to my posting practices? @-)

My guess would be he considers you a "TBM" and since he considers the LDS Church to be "secretive" and "hiding activities", etc. you, by default, are as well, and are laughed at and told to look in a mirror. Never mind that when the entirely pro-Snuffer sub-forum "Heavenly Gift" was up and running here on LDSFF, it was "hidden" from the prying eyes of others and you had to have permission to read/post there. Same with the "Remnant of Jacob" forum. Oh, and same with their Facebook group(s).So in truth, AI2.0, you speak the truth.

Why bear false witness? Once you register an account you can post/read. That's standard with forums.

[Zathura]

Why bear false witness? Once you registers an account you can post/read. That's standard with forums.

^^^
There are tech forums and gaming forums that you cannot read without registering an account. Just sayin

[AI2.0]

My guess would be he considers you a "TBM" and since he considers the LDS Church to be "secretive" and "hiding activities", etc. you, by default, are as well, and are laughed at and told to look in a mirror. Never mind that when the entirely pro-Snuffer sub-forum "Heavenly Gift" was up and running here on LDSFF, it was "hidden" from the prying eyes of others and you had to have permission to read/post there. Same with the "Remnant of Jacob" forum. Oh, and same with their Facebook group(s).So in truth, AI2.0, you speak the truth.

Why bear false witness? Once you register an account you can post/read. That's standard with forums.

I don't think it's false witness--it certainly isn't as far as the HG forum here--before it was closed, it was only for Snuffer followers and those who were 'grandfathered' in. Many people who tried to gain access were denied because they were not adherents to DS. However, it may not pertain to your site.

Well, thanks, your reasoning for closing the forum (to get more people to register) made sense. Maybe some of us will take you up on the offer.

[EmmaLee]

That's one thing I've learned about Snuffer followers. They like to hide their activities from the prying eyes of others.

(Sorry to derail the thread but I have to ask)

I have no idea what you're trying to suggest with this. Are you privy to my posting practices? @-)

My guess would be he considers you a "TBM" and since he considers the LDS Church to be "secretive" and "hiding activities", etc. you, by default, are as well, and are laughed at and told to look in a mirror. Never mind that when the entirely pro-Snuffer sub-forum "Heavenly Gift" was up and running here on LDSFF, it was "hidden" from the prying eyes of others and you had to have permission to read/post there. Same with the "Remnant of Jacob" forum. Oh, and same with their Facebook group(s).So in truth, AI2.0, you speak the truth.

Why bear false witness? Once you register an account you can post/read. That's standard with forums.

Harsh! Please forgive me, BMC; I was going by this statement (guess I should have read further) -

I recently changed the forum to members only view for my own purposes

[BMC]

Why bear false witness? Once you register an account you can post/read. That's standard with forums.

Harsh! Please forgive me, BMC; I was going by this statement (guess I should have read further) -

I recently changed the forum to members only view for my own purposes

Yes of course, I guess I was a little harsh, huh? Will you also please forgive me?

[EmmaLee]

Of course!