LDS Freedom Forum

commonwealth wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio ... izophrenia

I worked at Utah State Hospital as a Psych Nurse back in the 80's. I'm familiar with schizophrenia. No one on this forum that I have communicated with fits the bill.

Theres a difference between inpatient and outpatient. Delusions of grandeur can occur anywhere.

Matchmaker wrote:

commonwealth wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio ... izophrenia

I worked at Utah State Hospital as a Psych Nurse back in the 80's. I'm familiar with schizophrenia. No one on this forum that I have communicated with fits the bill.

Let them judge for they are no different than those who have judged all servants of God from the beginning, and will reap as they have sown. For the judgement will come upon them for as they have judged so must they also be judged.

Emmanuel you think you are Christ reborn?

If so I must have missed that post.

commonwealth wrote:You know, he asked us to pray about who he was. I did. The answer I got is "he is an imposter."

When I prayed about it, the answer I got was: "He wishes very much that he was." For me, that settled the argument. I find him less entertaining now and more a subject of pity.

There isn't an antichrist in the singular. The antichrist is anyone that openly or secretly opposes Christ.


Anyone or anything that counterfeits the true gospel plan of salvation and that openly or secretly opposes Christ. John the Revelator described the antichrist as a deceiver (1 Jn. 2:18–22; 4:3–6; 2 Jn. 1:7). The great antichrist is Lucifer, but he has many assistants, both spirit beings and mortals.

The son of perdition opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God:2 Thes. 2:1–12;
He deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of miracles:Rev. 13:13–17;
Sherem denied Christ and deceived many:Jacob 7:1–23;
Nehor taught false doctrines, established a church, and introduced priestcraft:Alma 1:2–16;
Korihor ridiculed Christ, the Atonement, and the spirit of prophecy:Alma 30:6–60;

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/antichrist" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

iWriteStuff wrote:

commonwealth wrote:You know, he asked us to pray about who he was. I did. The answer I got is "he is an imposter."

When I prayed about it, the answer I got was: "He wishes very much that he was." For me, that settled the argument. I find him less entertaining now and more a subject of pity.

Hi iWriteStuff. Hope you are well!

Why have pity on someone who wishes very much that he was Jesus Christ? Honestly, I wish that very much too!

I've been covenanting that I would be willing to take upon me His name for years. When will I actually take His name upon me?

-Finrock

I'm guessing my question answered is yes he does.


Emmanuel. From your last posts. Where you say you are imperfect working towards it. Why then do you look down on us who are the exact same as you? We are equals you see. As I am the son of God as well. We are all sons and daughters of God.
If you are working towards perfection as I am. I would suggest working on pride and judgement. It's been a longtime persuit of mine to rid myself of it. It's has brought me to an understanding of how much I have and how much others have. And why we look down on so many others because of it and treat them so poorly.

I don't enjoy being looked down on when I know as God asked to "be Thou perfect". It's obtainable for myself. And everyone else. No one has any right to look down on anyone in this world.
I for one would love for you to be thou perfect in your judgement of equality of each other. One son of God to another.

Finrock wrote:

iWriteStuff wrote:

commonwealth wrote:You know, he asked us to pray about who he was. I did. The answer I got is "he is an imposter."

When I prayed about it, the answer I got was: "He wishes very much that he was." For me, that settled the argument. I find him less entertaining now and more a subject of pity.

Hi iWriteStuff. Hope you are well!

Why have pity on someone who wishes very much that he was Jesus Christ? Honestly, I wish that very much too!

I've been covenanting that I would be willing to take upon me His name for years. When will I actually take His name upon me?

-Finrock

Howdy Fin

Surely you recognize the difference between being a son of God who has become like Him and actually being Him, right? Was my point really that hard to grasp? :-\

I pity the confused and deluded who do not know who they really are. And I treasure those who seek to be like Christ in every thought and deed. However, as stated, wanting to be like and actually being are very very different concepts. I could not be born as Jesus Christ, the Savior of the World, any more than I could be born as Moses, Joseph Smith or Samuel the Lamanite.

To quote Popeye, I am who I am and that's all that I am.

And Emmanuel/BurningSword is not Christ.

Emmanuel wrote:

Matchmaker wrote:

commonwealth wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio ... izophrenia

I worked at Utah State Hospital as a Psych Nurse back in the 80's. I'm familiar with schizophrenia. No one on this forum that I have communicated with fits the bill.

Let them judge for they are no different than those who have judged all servants of God from the beginning, and will reap as they have sown. For the judgement will come upon them for as they have judged so must they also be judged.

Interesting approach:

Emmanuel/"Christ" says "here are the means by which you may detect false Christs and false prophets."

Followers of Christ: "Using said means, we have detected that you are a false Christ."

Emmanuel/"Christ": "Nuh-uh!"

So basically "you" give us the keys to detect fraud then deny we have the ability to detect fraud. Makes total sense.

markharr wrote:

Emmanuel wrote:
In truth my Father is not your Father not directly, but mankind are potential adopted Sons and Daughters to God through the Son even Jesus Christ.

This is a direct contradiction of LDS doctrine. I am a child of god, and I am not going to allow you, or anyone else to tell me otherwise.

"Who are we? We are children of God. 32 Our potential is unlimited. Our inheritance is sacred. May we always honor that heritage—in every thought and deed—I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, amen."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Christ adopts us at baptism and becomes our Father as well, and we are joint-heirs with Christ. Romans 8:14-17

Now that being said, I knew from the first post that this guy is off.

iWriteStuff wrote:

Finrock wrote:

iWriteStuff wrote:

commonwealth wrote:You know, he asked us to pray about who he was. I did. The answer I got is "he is an imposter."

When I prayed about it, the answer I got was: "He wishes very much that he was." For me, that settled the argument. I find him less entertaining now and more a subject of pity.

Hi iWriteStuff. Hope you are well!

Why have pity on someone who wishes very much that he was Jesus Christ? Honestly, I wish that very much too!

I've been covenanting that I would be willing to take upon me His name for years. When will I actually take His name upon me?

-Finrock

Howdy Fin

Surely you recognize the difference between being a son of God who has become like Him and actually being Him, right? Was my point really that hard to grasp? :-\

I pity the confused and deluded who do not know who they really are. And I treasure those who seek to be like Christ in every thought and deed. However, as stated, wanting to be like and actually being are very very different concepts. I could not be born as Jesus Christ, the Savior of the World, any more than I could be born as Moses, Joseph Smith or Samuel the Lamanite.

To quote Popeye, I am who I am and that's all that I am.

And Emmanuel/BurningSword is not Christ.

Thanks for the response!

I do know the difference. But, that isn't what is at stake. You stated that God told you that "He wishes very much that he was". If a man wishes very much to be Jesus Christ, that isn't something to be pitied, it is as it should be, if it is sincere. You have judged him to not be sincere and so you don't pity him for wanting to be Jesus Christ but you pity him for being confused and deluded. When we do this then we set ourselves up and we end up closing our ears.

How much does it matter who he claims he is? Don't judge the man, just consider his words and listen. If the Spirit of truth is in you then you will recognize it no matter the tabernacle. And if the Spirit of truth witnesses to you, is that not then God? Is it not then Emmanuel who is speaking?

Don't judge the man to be good or evil. It doesn't matter. The Spirit of truth matters. We can't hear Spirit if we are judging others (whether good or evil).

-Finrock

I don't mind that he is striving to be like Christ. He is claiming to be Christ. That is the difference.

Anyways, how come you all are up all night. This convo has been going on throughout the entire night and early morning hours.

Emmanuel wrote:

Stourme wrote:

Matchmaker wrote:To Stourme and the other guys,

Are you so very sure of your own degree of righteousness and worthiness as a High Priest that you are above and beyond the possibility of being wrong? Are you so sure of your own ability to discern the Spirit that you declare it is impossible for you to make a mistake of this level of seriousness?

Yes.

I have the utmost faith in my ability to discern and declare in all righteousness that Emmanuel is NOT a member of the Godhead.

The leader of the Pharisees thought the same and he currently resides in the darkness of Hades. Bearing false witness is breaking a commandment of God. It is actually a serious thing for you to declare as you have done and brings full accountability upon you if being wrong which I testify you are indeed wrong.

I accept full and complete responsibility for bearing witness that you are in fact NOT a member of the Godhead. [-(

I want to make sure there is no ambiguity in where I stand in this discussion. k? :-w

A testimony has no weight if it's not true.

I'm sorry that you find yourself in a state of being that has you making these statements. I don't know if you actually believe what you're saying. I certainly hope you don't actually believe you are Jesus Christ. But I do wish you'd stop making these statements for your own sake.

iWriteStuff wrote:So basically "you" give us the keys to detect fraud then deny we have the ability to detect fraud. Makes total sense.

I see no problem with that logic, what's your problem?

Matchmaker wrote:You self-righteous bunch of hypocrites!....

Have you not considered the implications of following this man as though he really was Christ? Do you not see the danger in following a false Christ?

I'm not entirely convinced you understand the role of the priesthood. If the role of the priesthood is to stand idly by while someone falsely claims to be Christ and seeks a following and audience, then sure, we're all under condemnation who have rejected him. If, however, the role of the priesthood is to guard the sheep and lead them to the true shepherd, then we would all be under condemnation if we did NOT call him out for the imposter that he is.

The man is not Christ nor are all of his words inspired. I don't understand how you think I would honor my priesthood by shutting my ears to falsehood and willingly believing something the Spirit has told me, beyond question, is not true.

All of which isn't to say that I can't listen to and find truth in some of his words. But I have prayed and find his claims to divinity to be utterly false and I will not deny the Spirit which has confirmed this to me. That would be the sin for which I could be condemned.

Matchmaker wrote:You self-righteous bunch of hypocrites!....

You do realize that he's not "striving to be like the Christ", he's claiming to actually BE the Christ....right?

Is it really your idea of "humble" that requires everyone to shut up and let a false prophet or false Christ teach? To grovel at their feet? Beg forgiveness for contradicting them? Apologize for living? Is that what it means to be humble?

I'm guessing you think the 2000 stripling warriors were a bunch of arrogant jerks? Maybe Gideon should have been more humble in the face of Nehor?

When Korihor came into the land teaching false doctrine the people bound him up and dragged him before Alma the chief judge. Korihor was struck dumb and couldn't speak and he begged Alma to ask God to remove his curse and Alma said:

Alma 30
55 But Alma said unto him: If this curse should be taken from thee thou wouldst again lead away the hearts of this people; therefore, it shall be unto thee even as the Lord will.

56 And it came to pass that the curse was not taken off of Korihor; but he was cast out, and went about from house to house begging for his food.

Or would you call Alma a "cackling jackal" lacking in humility too?

I think Emmanuel is being treated very well, we're engaging him in conversation and putting his claims to the test.

Honestly though, I'm sorry if you've been offended, I hope you'll forgive my offense. However, don't expect me to cuddle up and be all chummy with false prophets and false Christs...well...ever. I don't want to give the impression that I have doubts or support their cause in any way. ;)

Suppose that it is true that Emmanuel who is posting is the Adversary. Would he not have succeeded in stirring up the hearts of others to mock, scorn, and to belittle?

If you must, pretend that Emmanuel is your enemy. Let not your enemy have power of you!

Luke 6 wrote:27 ¶But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same bmeasure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

We have no excuse. Let not the Adversary cause us to stumble because we judge and condemn others, even if it be our enemy.

-Finrock

Finrock wrote:Suppose that it is true that Emmanuel who is posting is the Adversary.

Straw man argument. No one accused him of being the Adversary.

I'll state it again: I'm perfectly open to hearing him out, and I keep an open mind to his thoughts/perspectives/whatever. It's the claims to divinity that I reject.

I'm sorry if that offends you, but he's not Christ. Letting him get away with claiming to be Christ isn't charity or open-mindedness; it's foolish and dangerous.

I choose to stand for truth, and that is truth.

And that's the last I'll say on the matter of his claims to divinity. Clearly we stand on opposite sides of the belief spectrum as regards whether my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is posting on an anonymous internet forum.

Emmanuel wrote: Stand against me if you wish, spend your remaining time doing so if you choose. All the energy people are putting in trying to find flaws in me could have been better used in removing the motes from their own eyes.

It's my God given right and also an obligation to discern spirits and the teachings of those claiming to come in the name of God. Even Adam did that. It's not my fault if your claims don't pass muster.

My own flaws do not in anyway suppress my right to discern your words. And you trying to distract from our discernment by trying to shame us into silence is intellectually dishonest.

iWriteStuff wrote:

Finrock wrote:Suppose that it is true that Emmanuel who is posting is the Adversary.

Straw man argument. No one accused him of being the Adversary.

Thanks for pointing out the ambiguity, but I did not intend to imply that anyone had accused him of being the Adversary, although if he is being accused of being a false Christ, leading people away, then I what other options are there? However, what I was saying is, let us suppose (as an exercise to explore) that it is true that Emmanuel is the Adversary. If Emmanuel is the Adversary (let us suppose) then wouldn't it be true that the Adversary has succeeded in this thread in strirring others to mock, belittle, and scorn another? Is doing this justified even with our enemy?

iWriteStuff wrote:I'll state it again: I'm perfectly open to hearing him out, and I keep an open mind to his thoughts/perspectives/whatever. It's the claims to divinity that I reject.

Awesome. I'm saying his claims of divinity are irrelevant.

iWriteStuff wrote:I'm sorry if that offends you, but he's not Christ. Letting him get away with claiming to be Christ isn't charity or open-mindedness; it's foolish and dangerous.

I choose to stand for truth, and that is truth.

And that's the last I'll say on the matter of his claims to divinity. Clearly we stand on opposite sides of the belief spectrum as regards whether my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is posting on an anonymous internet forum.

I'm not offended at all. I respect you and your perspective. I don't judge Emmanuel. I'm don't judge you either and I am trying to find God in your words too. If you don't think God can post on an anonymous internet forum, then we do differ in this belief. I believe with God all things are possible.

-Finrock

It must needs be that the scriptures are fullfilled every whit.

Wherefore is it written of the latter days-----

Matthew 24:5

"Many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ"

If it was not so, the scriptures written would be untrue.


But as stated it would be good to always be filled with loving kindness towards all, as Jesus Christ has taught.♡

Finrock wrote: I'm not offended at all. I respect you and your perspective. I don't judge Emmanuel. I'm don't judge you either and I am trying to find God in your words too. If you don't think God can post on an anonymous internet forum, then we do differ in this belief. I believe with God all things are possible.

-Finrock

Please be sure you understand my context, as I think you are falsely implying that I don't think God could post on an anonymous internet forum (I can't believe I just said that). To be clear, this is what I said:

iWriteStuff wrote: Clearly we stand on opposite sides of the belief spectrum as regards whether my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is posting on an anonymous internet forum.

It's a matter of "is" vs "can" - of course God CAN post. He can do anything. That's not the question - it's whether God Himself IS posting on an anonymous internet forum in the guise of Emmanuel/BurningSword. He's not.

I don't judge the man. He is what he is, and that's not my realm to speculate. But I can judge his claims. In fact the very nature of the claims demand that I do. It sounds like you're choosing not to discern truth from error.

Truth is irrelevant? Discerning true messengers, even the Lord Himself isn't relevant? Good luck with that.

I'll say it again plainly: I don't judge the man. He is what he is. But his claim is false. Let the implications of that be what they are.