The Prophet Is Jesus Christ’s Spokesman

[sushi_chef]

"substandard"??!!

bwhahahahaha....

"14 Nevertheless, in your temporal things you shall be equal, and this not grudgingly, otherwise the abundance of the manifestations of the Spirit shall be withheld." (dc 70)

"22 And to others it is given to prophesy" (dc 46)

:-B

[Franco]

Ok. Pm me. I'll keep your confidence between the two of us, and I promise never to reveal the person's name, except at a certain time and place, when it will be required of me to disclose it (judgment day).

How am I to know you're a true messenger, if you won't tell me who commissioned you? Honest question. Try to see it from my point of view.

The only true messengers with whom you need to be concerned are those who occupy the First Presidency of the Church.

Have you made any progress on knowing that the Book of Mormon is the word of God?

You answer my question first.

I did not claim to be a messenger.

[Franco]

We need to study the scriptures and pray to God so that we may not be deceived. We need to be willing to be wrong. We need to be willing to allow the Lord to turn our lives upside-down if He sees the need to do so.

Ultimately, it is up to each of us to come to the Lord, personally. No one can do it for us. We can each spout our opinions ad infinitum. We can pretend we know the rules of debate, and we can debate up a storm, getting all A+s in our debating classes. But the truth is, God does not debate. He does nothing of the sort. He will reason with us, though. And He requires us to learn to trust Him. Him. Not any man, even if he be a true and living prophet.

You will apparently trust the words of a true and dead prophet but not the words of a true and living prophet. When those dead prophets were alive, what they said and wrote was not scripture. It was simply the words of true and living prophets. You now have their words as scripture. You apparently trust lots of "men" who were true and living prophets.

If you had been there when these once “true and living prophets” were alive, you would have thought you are not required to trust them, which is what others thought of them and which is why they stoned them or put them in prison.

[Obrien]

Ok. Pm me. I'll keep your confidence between the two of us, and I promise never to reveal the person's name, except at a certain time and place, when it will be required of me to disclose it (judgment day).

How am I to know you're a true messenger, if you won't tell me who commissioned you? Honest question. Try to see it from my point of view.

The only true messengers with whom you need to be concerned are those who occupy the First Presidency of the Church.

Have you made any progress on knowing that the Book of Mormon is the word of God?

You answer my question first.

I did not claim to be a messenger.

Then you're easily ignored.
You're like the protestant minister in the old temple endowment ceremony - spouting your opinion for what you perceive as a reward. I've had a gut full of that in my life...thus, seeking true messengers.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I am looking for messengers from my father... (exit with wife and family)

[Robert Sinclair]

It is Thomas Monson's turn to lead as Enoch and Melchizedek or not, he is a free agent to do as his heart desires, as the head of the House of Ephraim today.♡

[Bee Prepared]

How does one know if what a Prophet is saying is something that came directly from Jesus Christ or if it is his opinion? Will the Prophet say something like, "The Lord has commanded that.................," or "The Lord has said that................" when he is talking to us? Do Prophets ever make a mistake in this area? What about the Church's change in their regard to the ability of the black man to hold the Priesthood? This is a serious question from a convert, and I am looking for a serious answer. Thank you.

I think he would let us know that he had talked to the Lord and the Lord wanted him to say such and so. He would not pretend it was "too sacred" to plainly state that he had seen the Lord. The fact that the Lord told him to preach would not be veiled in secrecy.

On the other hand, some who have not seen the Lord (nor have they been directed by Him to speak in His behalf) speak, using the Lord's name in vain (having not authority, so the scriptures say).

We need to study the scriptures and pray to God so that we may not be deceived. We need to be willing to be wrong. We need to be willing to allow the Lord to turn our lives upside-down if He sees the need to do so.

Ultimately, it is up to each of us to come to the Lord, personally. No one can do it for us. We can each spout our opinions ad infinitum. We can pretend we know the rules of debate, and we can debate up a storm, getting all A+s in our debating classes. But the truth is, God does not debate. He does nothing of the sort. He will reason with us, though. And He requires us to learn to trust Him. Him. Not any man, even if he be a true and living prophet.

Trusting God IS trusting a true and living Prophet. The voice of the Lord comes through His appointed servants. Of course we can draw close to God individually, we can receive personal revelation, but when you do not trust a living Prophet of God, does that mean you don't trust God?

[2EstablishZion]

This has really been THE never-ending argument at the core of almost all disagreements on this forum.
Personal revelation vs. revelation thru the organization.

No one should dispute the importance of personal revelation. Every scripture I can think of, as well as common sense, tells me that if you have received a revelation, that trumps anything from the organization. But to each their own on that one, if you will follow the prophet or any other man in conflict with a personal revelation...I just know how to address that mindset.

But the organization is pretty crucial to teaching us how to become the type of individual that is ready to receive revelation. In most cases, the institution is instrumental in getting us to the veil. So I also don;t understand people who mock, scoff or treat lightly church leaders (at least for those who are LDS).

Now if you are getting conflicting revelation from what the prophet says, my advice is tread carefully, your salvation may be hanging in the balance. I'd also say that if that is the case, it is intended for you alone, or possibly those in your stewardship. Of course, that changes if you are commanded to share it with the world. I don;t believe that anyone would ever receive revelation specifically for the church, God's house is a house of order, and certainly if this were not the way, it would soon become a house of chaos with every Tom, Dick, and Mary giving revelation for the church.

But I don;t put boundaries on God, I simply try to live in the boundaries He has set for me.

We each have agency and accountability.

We (at least most of us here) have been given direction on discerning true messengers from false messengers.

Please take this seriously and do not treat these things lightly. The stakes are inconceivably high.

Love you all,

Kevin

[Robert Sinclair]

Simple answer is no, that does in no way shape or form, mean you do not trust God.♡

[2EstablishZion]

Trusting God IS trusting a true and living Prophet. The voice of the Lord comes through His appointed servants. Of course we can draw close to God individually, we can receive personal revelation, but when you do not trust a living Prophet of God, does that mean you don't trust God?

No, it is not identical. With the prophet, it is "trust, but verify". With God it would be ridiculous to suggest verifying. Any messenger, be they angels, prophets, or any other possible requires verification if you consider your eternal salvation something you want to be careful of.

[Franco]

Trusting God IS trusting a true and living Prophet. The voice of the Lord comes through His appointed servants. Of course we can draw close to God individually, we can receive personal revelation, but when you do not trust a living Prophet of God, does that mean you don't trust God?

No, it is not identical. With the prophet, it is "trust, but verify". With God it would be ridiculous to suggest verifying. Any messenger, be they angels, prophets, or any other possible requires verification if you consider your eternal salvation something you want to be careful of.

So, God will reveal His truth to you, and if it contradicts what the prophet has said, you think it is because God did not reveal His will to the prophet? Is that right?

The prophet formed an opinion while God revealed the truth to you?

[Franco]

The only true messengers with whom you need to be concerned are those who occupy the First Presidency of the Church.

Have you made any progress on knowing that the Book of Mormon is the word of God?

You answer my question first.

I did not claim to be a messenger.

Then you're easily ignored.
You're like the protestant minister in the old temple endowment ceremony - spouting your opinion for what you perceive as a reward. I've had a gut full of that in my life...thus, seeking true messengers.

You did not ignore me when I asked if you intend to KNOW the Book of Mormon is the word of God in this life, or if you intend to KNOW it is the word of God when you stand before the judgment bar of Jesus Christ.

You even committed to KNOW it is the word of God in this life. What a pity it would be if had ignored me.

[Zathura]

How does one know if what a Prophet is saying is something that came directly from Jesus Christ or if it is his opinion? Will the Prophet say something like, "The Lord has commanded that.................," or "The Lord has said that................" when he is talking to us? Do Prophets ever make a mistake in this area? What about the Church's change in their regard to the ability of the black man to hold the Priesthood? This is a serious question from a convert, and I am looking for a serious answer. Thank you.

I think he would let us know that he had talked to the Lord and the Lord wanted him to say such and so. He would not pretend it was "too sacred" to plainly state that he had seen the Lord. The fact that the Lord told him to preach would not be veiled in secrecy.

On the other hand, some who have not seen the Lord (nor have they been directed by Him to speak in His behalf) speak, using the Lord's name in vain (having not authority, so the scriptures say).

We need to study the scriptures and pray to God so that we may not be deceived. We need to be willing to be wrong. We need to be willing to allow the Lord to turn our lives upside-down if He sees the need to do so.

Ultimately, it is up to each of us to come to the Lord, personally. No one can do it for us. We can each spout our opinions ad infinitum. We can pretend we know the rules of debate, and we can debate up a storm, getting all A+s in our debating classes. But the truth is, God does not debate. He does nothing of the sort. He will reason with us, though. And He requires us to learn to trust Him. Him. Not any man, even if he be a true and living prophet.

Trusting God IS trusting a true and living Prophet. The voice of the Lord comes through His appointed servants. Of course we can draw close to God individually, we can receive personal revelation, but when you do not trust a living Prophet of God, does that mean you don't trust God?

Trusting God = Trusting Thomas S Monson?

[Zathura]

How does one know if what a Prophet is saying is something that came directly from Jesus Christ or if it is his opinion? Will the Prophet say something like, "The Lord has commanded that.................," or "The Lord has said that................" when he is talking to us? Do Prophets ever make a mistake in this area? What about the Church's change in their regard to the ability of the black man to hold the Priesthood? This is a serious question from a convert, and I am looking for a serious answer. Thank you.

I think he would let us know that he had talked to the Lord and the Lord wanted him to say such and so. He would not pretend it was "too sacred" to plainly state that he had seen the Lord. The fact that the Lord told him to preach would not be veiled in secrecy.

On the other hand, some who have not seen the Lord (nor have they been directed by Him to speak in His behalf) speak, using the Lord's name in vain (having not authority, so the scriptures say).

We need to study the scriptures and pray to God so that we may not be deceived. We need to be willing to be wrong. We need to be willing to allow the Lord to turn our lives upside-down if He sees the need to do so.

Ultimately, it is up to each of us to come to the Lord, personally. No one can do it for us. We can each spout our opinions ad infinitum. We can pretend we know the rules of debate, and we can debate up a storm, getting all A+s in our debating classes. But the truth is, God does not debate. He does nothing of the sort. He will reason with us, though. And He requires us to learn to trust Him. Him. Not any man, even if he be a true and living prophet.

Trusting God IS trusting a true and living Prophet. The voice of the Lord comes through His appointed servants. Of course we can draw close to God individually, we can receive personal revelation, but when you do not trust a living Prophet of God, does that mean you don't trust God?

Honest question bee. The scriptures that speak of trusting in the arm of flesh, when do they apply? When do we use and apply that scripture in our lives?

[Zathura]

I just got called out by a poster "Nyr" for not stating unequivocally that TSM is a PSR.

Someone else quotes:
"Num. 12:6,8 "If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream . . . and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold."

Im waiting for the PSRs to prophesy, see, revelate, share a vision, or a dream... something, besides their opinions, which are usually pretty good. But until then, hold them (the PSRs) to the same standard as you demand other posters that disagree with you to

The Lord was speaking to ancient Israel. If you think this applies to all prophets, then show me where the Lord made himself known in a vision to each and every prophet in the Bible and the Book of Mormon and where He spoke to them in a dream.

Ok, by this logic, all prophets dont have to prophesy anything to be prophets except the ancient ones? It would be easier for you to give examples of the ancient prophets that lacked some sort of manifestation from the LORD than vise versa

Prophets, whether ancient or modern, do not have to prophesy to be prophets. And trust me, documented fulfillment of prophesies does not do much to convince people who have hardened their hearts against the truth.

This confuses me. Because a prophet is only called a prophet because he is one who prophesies. Hence why these 2 words come from the same root.

[Franco]

The Lord was speaking to ancient Israel. If you think this applies to all prophets, then show me where the Lord made himself known in a vision to each and every prophet in the Bible and the Book of Mormon and where He spoke to them in a dream.

Ok, by this logic, all prophets dont have to prophesy anything to be prophets except the ancient ones? It would be easier for you to give examples of the ancient prophets that lacked some sort of manifestation from the LORD than vise versa

Prophets, whether ancient or modern, do not have to prophesy to be prophets. And trust me, documented fulfillment of prophesies does not do much to convince people who have hardened their hearts against the truth.

This confuses me. Because a prophet is only called a prophet because he is one who prophesies. Hence why these 2 words come from the same root.

Maybe I can help.

Prophet comes directly from the Latin word propheta, which is from the Greek word prophetes, meaning “an interpreter, spokesman,” especially of the gods, “inspired preacher or teacher.” Prophetes is from pro-, meaning “before” + root of Greek phanai, “to speak.”

Prophecy comes from a 12th century Modern French word, prophétie, which is from an Old French word, profecie, and directly from Late Latin prophetia from Greek propheteia "gift of interpreting the will of the gods," from prophetes. The meaning “thing spoken or written by a prophet” came about in the 13th century.

Prophesy traces back only as far as the 13th century Old French word prophecie. It has no Latin or Greek origins, but it is obviously from the origins of prophet, which is from pro-, meaning “before,” + root of Greek phanai, “to speak.”

God's prophets speak for Him. Perhaps when people start giving heed to what God's prophet says, God will reveal through His prophet things that will come to pass.

[Obrien]

No, Stahura, a prophet is one who is ACCEPTED, and even better REVERED, as a prophet by his followers. It also helps to have a big fancy chair to prophet from. And nice clothes.

Get real...who expects PROPHECY from a PROPHET???
The next thing you'll want is teachers that teach, fire fighters that fight fires, builders that build, writers that write, mechanics that fix things, engineers that engineer things, lawyers who are expert in the law and cab drivers that drive cabs. THEN where would we be...?

;)

[EmmaLee]

Since Jesus Christ himself is posting on LDSFF, why not just ask him who his spokesman is? Or maybe he's his own spokesman now?

[Obrien]

Since Jesus Christ himself is posting on LDSFF, why not just ask him who his spokesman is? Or maybe he's his own spokesman now?

Or possibly spokeswoman? ;)

[Zathura]

No, Stahura, a prophet is one who is ACCEPTED, and even better REVERED, as a prophet by his followers. It also helps to have a big fancy chair to prophet from. And nice clothes.

Get real...who expects PROPHECY from a PROPHET???
The next thing you'll want is teachers that teach, fire fighters that fight fires, builders that build, writers that write, mechanics that fix things, engineers that engineer things, lawyers who are expert in the law and cab drivers that drive cabs. THEN where would we be...?

;)

Lol.. I know right

[Finrock]

A prophet is a prophet even if they have nice clothes and are sitting in a nice chair. Let the Spirit of prophecy or Spirit of truth be the guide as to who is a prophet.

-Finrock

[Rachael]

Franco: "...God's prophets speak for Him.."
If God is not telling them anything, they are putting words in His mouth

[Robert Sinclair]

This is all laid out to understand and see of the latter days perfectly in Jeremiah chapter 23, that they will speak out of their own hearts and minds, and not from meeting with the LORD personally, and obtaining the words from his own mouth, to return to us, to repeat these words faithfully.

So it has been written and so it is being done, to prove to us all, that the scriptures are true, and we should read and know them all.♡

[Obrien]

A prophet is a prophet even if they have nice clothes and are sitting in a nice chair. Let the Spirit of prophecy or Spirit of truth be the guide as to who is a prophet.

-Finrock

Agreed. Now let's hear a prophecy...that will help clarify the question.

[Franco]

No, Stahura, a prophet is one who is ACCEPTED, and even better REVERED, as a prophet by his followers. It also helps to have a big fancy chair to prophet from. And nice clothes.

Get real...who expects PROPHECY from a PROPHET???
The next thing you'll want is teachers that teach, fire fighters that fight fires, builders that build, writers that write, mechanics that fix things, engineers that engineer things, lawyers who are expert in the law and cab drivers that drive cabs. THEN where would we be...?
;)

So, all you want is a prophet who will tell you of things that will come to pass?