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Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 7:58 am
by Robert Sinclair
By their fruits, ye shall know them, equal and delightful, allowing people to steal away their goods, not asking them back, and of being sued at the law, and letting these things just go, even giving more, and of the poor and needy seeing they first are housed in a home of their own, with a covenant and a deed that cannot be broken, and clothed and given food, before one penny is spent on buildings and lands for worship or the public benefit of the saints. Seeing the will and commandments of God are fullfilled every whit, no poor among them of their own freewill. ♡
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 8:39 am
by Franco
zionminded wrote:Yes Franco, at a point, people no longer are tempted. They can be, if they don't keep their covenants, but repentance truly changes people, that they have no desire to sin:
Alma 19:33
And it came to pass that when Ammon arose he also administered unto them, and also did all the servants of Lamoni; and they did all declare unto the people the selfsame thing—that their hearts had been changed; that they had no more desire to do evil.
There are many stories like that, the most powerful being what happened to the Nephite-Lamanite societies after Christ's visit.
By your definition, people reading their scriptures and following the prophet have a "desire" to do evil. But the fact is that reading scriptures and following the prophet are just two of the many things you will do if your relationship with Christ is where it should be.
zionminded wrote:There is a difference between tasting it, and becoming it. MANY will taste it, but will not become like Him. Until they change their hearts (totally) they are susceptible to their weakness (their mortality). Note that changing ones heart completely, is a process, and doesn't mean perfection, it means being willing to be perfected.
After reading your words, I feel much like Alma after he witnessed the Zoramites giving their prayer on the Rameumptom. I am "astonished beyond all measure." Let me rephrase your words:
"Behold, I zionminded, and those like me, are not subject to the weaknesses of mortality because we are willing to be perfected, while those who read their scriptures and follow the prophet can be tempted by Satan. All their prayers, and living the gospel, and their relationship with the Lord will come to naught because, among the many things they do to have a relationship with the Lord, they read scriptures and follow the prophet."
zionminded wrote:
Let me suggest anyone reading their scriptures and only following Jesus Christ's prophet on the earth has also been led astray by Satan, especially if they think doing so is ALL they need.
As I stated in an earlier post, it is obvious that just reading scriptures and following the prophet will not lead to exaltation. There is much more involved on the path to exaltation. But two of the many things you must ALWAYS do while on the path to exaltation are read your scriptures and follow the prophet. There are many more things you must do, such as being valiant in the testimony of Jesus Christ, but those two are something you can never stop doing if you expect to receive eternal life.
zionminded wrote: Damnation is a stop in spiritual progression at any level, even if its a good place to stop at. This behavior is basic (like primary), but it isn't enough for the CK. Eventually strict obedience will get somebody to the point where they are given the choice to seek Christ personally.
Obedience and seeking Christ personally call for reading your scriptures and following the prophet among other things.
zionminded wrote: Like all things, some will and can be lead astray and leave in what Lehi's dream is called "forbidden paths"... sadly, because the adversary can deceive anybody. However, the truth remains that times are changing, and sitting on the fence, just reading scriptures and following the prophet isn't enough. (See 10 virgins)
Again, as I stated in an earlier post, it is obvious that just reading scriptures and following the prophet will not lead to exaltation. There is much more involved on the path to exaltation. But two of the many things you must ALWAYS do while on the path to exaltation are read your scriptures and follow the prophet. There are many more things you must do, such as being valiant in the testimony of Jesus Christ, but those two are something you can never stop doing if you expect to receive eternal life.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 8:48 am
by Robert Sinclair
Franco, there is only "one" prophet all must hearken unto in the latter days, and that prophet is Jesus Christ, and all who do not hearken unto him, shall be cut off and destroyed.
The word of the LORD unto Jeremiah, is not null and void, but is every bit as valid, as the day it was given unto Jeremiah in what is known as chapter 23. ♡
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 8:58 am
by shadow
Rachael wrote:shadow wrote:How many identities do you and/or have you had Brotherofmahonri?
Wow, Tony/Franco is also Brotherofmahonri?
I thought the latter said he was a prophet of sorts, not follow the other ones we have to sustain as PSRs (at least to remain in good graces with the church)?
My response was to Brotherofmahonri, who also used to be ballamsdoctrine and I think at least one other name, maybe more. And yes, he said he was a prophet. The correct term would be a false prophet and a self appointed prophet. He isn't a Franco or a Tony. He or they at least know what they're talking about.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 10:15 am
by Rachael
Franco wrote:Rachael wrote:Franco wrote:[quote="
Anyone not reading their scriptures and not following Jesus Christ's prophet on the earth has been led astray by Satan, especially if they think a relationship with the Lord is ALL they need.
Why would I need more than a relationship with the LORD? He is is the gatekeeper, who employs no servant.
He employs no servant AT THE GATE. He
employs lots of servants to lead his people under his direction so that they can receive eternal life when they meet him at the gate. This is not rocket science.
Are you an employee, say in an official capacity? I mean there are other TBMs here, but you are in a whole 'nuther category. Like Porter Rockwell/Danite devoted. (Thank goodness Blood Atonement has been done away with, or a few of us here may be in danger of having our throats slit from ear to ear, tongues ripped out, disemboweled, and whatnot.) But if my income and 401K depended on it, and that was the only way I had to feed my chill'uns, I could see being a band wagon jumper-on-er too...til I found another job. But we are all different, and thats an overall good thing even if it has some opposition to it.
And no, I'm no rocket scientist. I'm mathematically challenged. But I guess your plainness of words still went over my head like a rocket
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 11:05 am
by caddis
Paid shills. Obama had KMCopeland. The Church has Tony/Franco. The checks must have stopped coming for one of them, because he has disappeared from LDSFF. I'm hoping the checks stop for the other one real soon.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 11:06 am
by passionflower
The quarrelling on this subject of " divine revelation vs personal revelation" boils down to a problem with authority. People just want to be their own boss, you might say, and they resent any intrusion by the church.
But if this church doesn't have any authority, this church doesn't have anything at all.
If angels never appeared to Joseph Smith or did not give him Priesthood authority by the laying on of hands, this church would be no different than any other church. This "divine authority" is what TCOJCOLDS is all about and makes it a "true and living church". The apostles hold the keys of this Priesthood. Without them, the church falls, and the rest of us are dead ducks in the water.
The other day, my bishop agreed with me when I said: "one of the most difficult things for the average person to accept is that in this church, it isn't 'what's right' it's 'who's right'. "
Are you screaming in protest? I have told a story elsewhere about being on temple square to see first hand what happens when a Prophet tells the members something they don't want to hear, and it bordered on violence. So scream away..............
The kind of obedience, humility and SUBMISSION is the oneness Heavenly Father requires for admittance to Zion, the Celestial Kingdom, and the Church of the Firstborn. Priesthood authority is what links everyone together, not only in family units, but in the church, the Kingdom of God, and holds this entire Universe together. In the words of the intercessory prayer, Jesus Christ wants His apostles to be one with Him as He was one with the Father. which shows a oneness to God through the Priesthood line of authority in the church. It only makes sense that Jesus, therefore, would want the general membership to be one with the Apostles.
One of the most dramatic tests in the scriptures or in the church history, is when someone, usually a prophet, is commanded by God to do something they believe is wrong and even horrific. We call this an Abrahamic test. What it tests is our obedience to God, no matter what the sacrifice or how we personally feel about it.
The will of God, the greatest revelation of all, cannot be manifested in our lives as long as our own will is present. As an apostle said a long time ago, the only gift we can really give God is our agency. And He wants it all. He wants our love, obedience, devotion, affections, and loyalty to be placed on Him and Him alone. One cannot be filled with the spirit of the Lord if we don't make room for it.
None of us can save ourselves. In staying close to the Brethren, one is indeed turning their salvation over to someone else, the only person who can save you, Jesus Christ.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 1:36 pm
by EPH
There is always a lot of talk on, "following the prophet," on these boards. For those who claim they, "follow the prophet," where exactly are you going? I'm in my 30's and have been a member my whole life. I can't recall any revelations given in my lifetime. We sometime like to call things revelations (missionary age change) even though those changes are made based on pilot programs. If you want your eyes opened on how changes are made in the church just participate in one of the many surveys the church conducts. My husband did surveys for two years and was asked his opinion on everything from how long he'd prefer church to last to his ideas on gays in the church. Follow the prophet? Or are we following the opinions of thousands of members just like my husband? If not the latter, then why spend precious resources learning the members opinions. Why not ask God? I'm really confused why we as members are so eager to call policy changes, revelations. Maybe we are all just so hungry for the real thing. Someone earlier said that those who disagree with the idea of, "following the prophet," do so because they don't want someone telling them what to do. I REJECT this statement. I have no desire to be disobedient. I don't think I have any problem with what President Monson has taught over the past few years. Taking care of widows and loving people. Good stuff. I agree. But, "following the prophet," is not scriptural. It is not doctrinal. Prophets are supposed to point us to Christ not themselves. They can't save us! There is no good ship zion we can board and breathe a sigh of releif because men with keys are steering. We must seek Christ ourselves. We listen to the prophets as they point us to Christ. But it is Christ who is the way. These are one young mothers beliefs. We all get to beleive as we choose.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 2:38 pm
by Rachael
passionflower wrote:The quarrelling on this subject of " divine revelation vs personal revelation" boils down to a problem with authority. People just want to be their own boss, you might say, and they resent any intrusion by the church.
Youve must have beem a winner on the local bishop roulette wheel. Count your many blessings. As we all should. Free agency can be a biotch at times. Makes us want to do our own thing even it isnt the wisest course
passionflower wrote:But if this church doesn't have any authority, this church doesn't have anything at all.
Agree
passionflower wrote:f angels never appeared to Joseph Smith or did not give him Priesthood authority by the laying on of hands, this church would be no different than any other church. This "divine authority" is what TCOJCOLDS is all about and makes it a "true and living church". The apostles hold the keys of this Priesthood. Without them, the church falls, and the rest of us are dead ducks in the water.
Yep.
passionflower wrote:The other day, my bishop agreed with me when I said: "one of the most difficult things for the average person to accept is that in this church, it isn't 'what's right' it's 'who's right'. "
The history surely doenst help deciphering whether JS was a prophet or just another W.Jeffs. But it is the lay members fault? We need Jesus to to appear to sort it out, but we could ex'd in the meantime if we shared it with others since it would not be authorized.
passionflower wrote:[Are you screaming in protest? I have told a story elsewhere about being on` temple square to see first hand what happens when a Prophet tells the members something they don't want to hear, and it bordered on violence. So scream away..............
\
No screaming here. But silence responses for asking questions can be just as deafening. Most of that can be attributed to evangelicals trying to "save us" plus disaffected members for being ignored. Most of us are trying to live under the radar while trying to sort all this out
passionflower wrote:The kind of obedience, humility and SUBMISSION is the oneness Heavenly Father requires for admittance to Zion, the Celestial Kingdom, and the Church of the Firstborn. Priesthood authority is what links everyone together, not only in family units, but in the church, the Kingdom of God, and holds this entire Universe together. In the words of the intercessory prayer, Jesus Christ wants His apostles to be one with Him as He was one with the Father. which shows a oneness to God through the Priesthood line of authority in the church. It only makes sense that Jesus, therefore, would want the general membership to be one with the Apostles.
True in a way, but TSM and Co, INC., are not direct witnesses of JC, or if they are, are not proclaiming
that.
passionflower wrote:One of the most dramatic tests in the scriptures or in the church history, is when someone, usually a prophet, is commanded by God to do something they believe is wrong and even horrific. We call this an Abrahamic test. What it tests is our obedience to God, no matter what the sacrifice or how we personally feel about it.
Polygamy is horrible, JS murdered, saints scattered, the Nauvoo temple destroyed, the church almost losing everything built up in UT, etc. It also went against prior revelations ("treated lightly" ring a bell?), the D&C altered to accommodate it, and all kinds of sordid things we must endure cognitive dissonance about. Besides, Abraham didn't go through with sacrificing Issac. That was the real test, not "going into Hagar" and producing Ishmael. I'm sure that wasn't all that hard.
passionflower wrote:The will of God, the greatest revelation of all, cannot be manifested in our lives as long as our own will is present. As an apostle said a long time ago, the only gift we can really give God is our agency. And He wants it all. He wants our love, obedience, devotion, affections, and loyalty to be placed on Him and Him alone. One cannot be filled with the spirit of the Lord if we don't make room for it.
Agree
passionflower wrote:None of us can save ourselves. In staying close to the Brethren, one is indeed turning their salvation over to someone else, the only person who can save you, Jesus Christ.
Again, He employeth no servant at the gate
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 7:10 pm
by passionflower
Just so you know, Rachael, my experiences with church leaders is not some complete bed of roses. If there was a contest here on who had the best horror story related with the church, I really believe I would win. And I have so many stories I could enter! But I still have a strong testimony, and church history stories do not bother me whatsoever.
I have said before that there are basically three reasons people get disaffected from the church:
!. They are angry at God
2. They are angry at church leaders or members
3. They are angry at church leaders/members and God
These three reasons are always placed outside the "victim", as if something "out there" caused the problem they now face. But in reality, reacting to a crises of faith with anger, resentment, confusion or doubt is a spiritual problem within the disaffected person.
This is very difficult and painful to figure out for this person and no one can minimize this. Anyone who has been there, knows how bad this is, and you can see it all over the forum. And preaching at him doesn't really help. He already knows what the church teaches.
Basically, the only place to go when you have one of the above three problems is on your knees. Only Jesus Christ can help cure these spiritual problems when they surface. The work of Jesus Christ is to reconcile and atone. He doesn't pull things apart, He brings all things back together in perfect order. This is healing. It is not His will that someone leave the church, lose faith or rebel for any reason whatsoever. His will is to Reconcile you and bring you back like the good shepherd that He is. This is the way to peace. It brings certainty, sureness of the path before, and this peace that is beyond all understanding. Very worth the price of doing or feeling what I had to in order to keep myself in the fold.
I can say with all I have been through, now that I see the end coming, the sacrifice of my own will or ideas of what was right or wrong was well worth it. I am not sorry I sacrificed my own sense of justice for God's. What I have received in return is far greater than I could have ever imagined.
Whatever you think of Joseph Smith or other church leaders in relation to polygamy, etc. I am content to say that if JS or BY said they only did what the Lord commanded them, I believe them. Simple as that. What I think about it is unimportant. And yes, Abraham didn't go through with sacrificing Isaac, but if the angel had not appeared, he would have. That was enough for the Lord and this is how Abraham earned his exaltation. Now through him all nations of the earth will be blessed. Not bad. You just cannot have anything eternally you are not willing to sacrifice here. That includes our own will and desires.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 20th, 2015, 7:26 pm
by Obrien
Franco wrote:According to Joseph Smith, people have to follow the prophet in order to know "the mind and will of God to the Church."
President Joseph Smith, Jun., addressed the assembly and said, the Melchizedek High Priesthood was no other than the Priesthood of the Son of God; that there are certain ordinances which belong to the Priesthood from which flow certain results; and the Presidents or Presidency are over the Church; and revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency. This is the order of heaven. - History of the Church, Volume Two, page 477
No one can know the mind and will of God without following the prophet. Anyone who wants to get to "heaven" will give heed to these words.
History of the Church, Volume 2 is not scripture.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 10:12 am
by Franco
Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:According to Joseph Smith, people have to follow the prophet in order to know "the mind and will of God to the Church."
President Joseph Smith, Jun., addressed the assembly and said, the Melchizedek High Priesthood was no other than the Priesthood of the Son of God; that there are certain ordinances which belong to the Priesthood from which flow certain results; and the Presidents or Presidency are over the Church; and revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency. This is the order of heaven. - History of the Church, Volume Two, page 477
No one can know the mind and will of God without following the prophet. Anyone who wants to get to "heaven" will give heed to these words.
History of the Church, Volume 2 is not scripture.
It is the "doctrine" that was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Shall I quote the "scripture" that says Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 10:30 am
by Obrien
Franco wrote:Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:According to Joseph Smith, people have to follow the prophet in order to know "the mind and will of God to the Church."
President Joseph Smith, Jun., addressed the assembly and said, the Melchizedek High Priesthood was no other than the Priesthood of the Son of God; that there are certain ordinances which belong to the Priesthood from which flow certain results; and the Presidents or Presidency are over the Church; and revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency. This is the order of heaven. - History of the Church, Volume Two, page 477
No one can know the mind and will of God without following the prophet. Anyone who wants to get to "heaven" will give heed to these words.
History of the Church, Volume 2 is not scripture.
It is the "doctrine" that was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Shall I quote the "scripture" that says Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself.
Please do.
Does that same scripture mention BY, JT, WW, LS, JFS, HG, GAS, DM, JFS, HL, SK, EB, HH, GH OR TM?
I thought not...
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 10:43 am
by jbalm
You left out a bunch of middle initials.
Blasphemer.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 2:29 pm
by Franco
Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:According to Joseph Smith, people have to follow the prophet in order to know "the mind and will of God to the Church."
"President Joseph Smith, Jun., addressed the assembly and said, the Melchizedek High Priesthood was no other than the Priesthood of the Son of God; that there are certain ordinances which belong to the Priesthood from which flow certain results; and the Presidents or Presidency are over the Church; and revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency. This is the order of heaven". - History of the Church, Volume Two, page 477
No one can know the mind and will of God without following the prophet. Anyone who wants to get to "heaven" will give heed to these words.
History of the Church, Volume 2 is not scripture.
It is the "doctrine" that was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Shall I quote the "scripture" that says Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself.
Please do.
Does that same scripture mention BY, JT, WW, LS, JFS, HG, GAS, DM, JFS, HL, SK, EB, HH, GH OR TM?
I thought not...
Thank you for asking. The Spirit tells me that the answer deserves its own topic -->>
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I know you are trying to change the subject to Latter-day prophets other than Joseph Smith, but out of curiosity, are you acknowledging that, regardless of what you think of all the other Latter-day prophets, Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself?
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 3:04 pm
by Rachael
Well if the Savior appears to you and says JS was wrong about this, that, or another, are you gonna whip out your History of the Church volumes, or your D&C (which was ALTERED after JS died) and debate Christ?
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 5:16 pm
by Obrien
Franco wrote:Franco wrote:Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:According to Joseph Smith, people have to follow the prophet in order to know "the mind and will of God to the Church."
"President Joseph Smith, Jun., addressed the assembly and said, the Melchizedek High Priesthood was no other than the Priesthood of the Son of God; that there are certain ordinances which belong to the Priesthood from which flow certain results; and the Presidents or Presidency are over the Church; and revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency. This is the order of heaven". - History of the Church, Volume Two, page 477
No one can know the mind and will of God without following the prophet. Anyone who wants to get to "heaven" will give heed to these words.
History of the Church, Volume 2 is not scripture.
It is the "doctrine" that was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Shall I quote the "scripture" that says Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself.
Thank you for asking. The Spirit tells me that the answer deserves its own topic -->>
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I know you are trying to change the subject to Latter-day prophets other than Joseph Smith, but out of curiosity, are you acknowledging that, regardless of what you think of all the other Latter-day prophets, Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself?
Words spoken under the influence of the Spirit, whether by you or JS, I would accept. I do not accept all the words of JS as equal to the words if Jesus. That is an odd kind of loyalty...
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 6:02 pm
by Franco
Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:Franco wrote:Obrien wrote:
History of the Church, Volume 2 is not scripture.
It is the "doctrine" that was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Shall I quote the "scripture" that says Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself.
Thank you for asking. The Spirit tells me that the answer deserves its own topic -->>
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I know you are trying to change the subject to Latter-day prophets other than Joseph Smith, but out of curiosity, are you acknowledging that, regardless of what you think of all the other Latter-day prophets, Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself?
Words spoken under the influence of the Spirit, whether by you or JS, I would accept. I do not accept all the words of JS as equal to the words if Jesus. That is an odd kind of loyalty...
Are you saying that it was not revealed to Joseph that "revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency" and that it was not revealed to Joseph that "this is the order of heaven"?
If that is what you are saying, then please fill in the blank for me. "Revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through ____________."
And after you have filled in the blank, please tell me if it is "the order of heaven."
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 7:41 pm
by Obrien
Franco wrote:Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:Franco wrote:
It is the "doctrine" that was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Shall I quote the "scripture" that says Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself.
Thank you for asking. The Spirit tells me that the answer deserves its own topic -->>
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I know you are trying to change the subject to Latter-day prophets other than Joseph Smith, but out of curiosity, are you acknowledging that, regardless of what you think of all the other Latter-day prophets, Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself?
Words spoken under the influence of the Spirit, whether by you or JS, I would accept. I do not accept all the words of JS as equal to the words if Jesus. That is an odd kind of loyalty...
Are you saying that it was not revealed to Joseph that "revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency" and that it was not revealed to Joseph that "this is the order of heaven"?
If that is what you are saying, then please fill in the blank for me. "Revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through _the Holy Spirit_."
And after you have filled in the blank, please tell me if it is "the order of heaven."
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 8:14 pm
by Franco
Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:
Thank you for asking. The Spirit tells me that the answer deserves its own topic -->>
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I know you are trying to change the subject to Latter-day prophets other than Joseph Smith, but out of curiosity, are you acknowledging that, regardless of what you think of all the other Latter-day prophets, Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself?
Words spoken under the influence of the Spirit, whether by you or JS, I would accept. I do not accept all the words of JS as equal to the words if Jesus. That is an odd kind of loyalty...
Are you saying that it was not revealed to Joseph that "revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency" and that it was not revealed to Joseph that "this is the order of heaven"?
If that is what you are saying, then please fill in the blank for me. "Revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through _the Holy Spirit_."
And after you have filled in the blank, please tell me if it is "the order of heaven."
If it is the Holy Spirit that reveals the mind and will of God to the Church, then why do we see in the Doctrine and Covenants that Jesus Christ continuously spoke to the Church through the Prophet Joseph Smith?
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 8:20 pm
by Rachael
Franco wrote:
Are you saying that it was not revealed to Joseph that "revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency" and that it was not revealed to Joseph that "this is the order of heaven"?
If that is what you are saying, then please fill in the blank for me. "Revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through ____________."
And after you have filled in the blank, please tell me if it is "the order of heaven."
Sidney Rigdon was the survivor of the 1st Prexidency after JS died, at least until BY & Co. had him ex'd, if you wanna go there. They didnt give heed to him
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 8:44 pm
by Obrien
jbalm wrote:You left out a bunch of middle initials.
Blasphemer.
Middle initials are used to rarify a common name. Who would feel inspired by a book authored by Tom Monson? Dave McKay? Or, even worse - "Spencer". I am so far past middle initials, I forget my own at times. If skipping middle initials makes one a blasphemer, I take the title with relish.
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 8:49 pm
by Obrien
Franco wrote:Obrien wrote:Franco wrote:
Thank you for asking. The Spirit tells me that the answer deserves its own topic -->>
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I know you are trying to change the subject to Latter-day prophets other than Joseph Smith, but out of curiosity, are you acknowledging that, regardless of what you think of all the other Latter-day prophets, Joseph's words are to be taken as, or the same as, those of the Savior himself?
Obrien wrote:Words spoken under the influence of the Spirit, whether by you or JS, I would accept. I do not accept all the words of JS as equal to the words if Jesus. That is an odd kind of loyalty...
Franco wrote:Are you saying that it was not revealed to Joseph that "revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through the Presidency" and that it was not revealed to Joseph that "this is the order of heaven"?
If that is what you are saying, then please fill in the blank for me. "Revelations of the mind and will of God to the Church are to come through _the Holy Spirit_."
And after you have filled in the blank, please tell me if it is "the order of heaven."
If it is the Holy Spirit that reveals the mind and will of God to the Church, then why do we see in the Doctrine and Covenants that Jesus Christ continuously spoke to the Church through the Prophet Joseph Smith?
I have not heard of a revelation from Joseph for the church since John Taylor said he talked to JS one night. It's been over 100 years, at least. I suppose the Lord spoke to Joseph for the church because that was his calling. Nowadays , all we get are a bunch of ... never mind... kinder gentler Obrien taking over...
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 8:52 pm
by captainfearnot
What about Lafayette Hubbard? No thank you.
L. Ron Hubbard sounds much better.
I don't know what D. Todd Christopherson is doing, though. Who prefers Todd over David?
Re: Revelations Of The Mind And Will Of God To The Church
Posted: August 21st, 2015, 9:21 pm
by Rachael
Obrien wrote:
I have not heard of a revelation from Joseph for the church since John Taylor said he talked to JS one night. It's been over 100 years, at least. I suppose the Lord spoke to Joseph for the church because that was his calling. Nowadays , all we get are a bunch of ... never mind... kinder gentler Obrien taking over...
Thank goodness he passed away in 1887 a mere 3 years before his successor, Wilford Woodruff, had to deal with all that Manifesto stuff. But he (JT) did scope out Mexico and Canada. Maybe the Lord/JS warned him all those extra wives might need a refuge soon...
or the wanted posters... google the images if you want to see