Page 111 of 114

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 15th, 2020, 11:27 am
by Elizabeth
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... monuments/


President Trump announced on Friday he will donate $100,000 of his annual salary to the National Park Service to aid the restoration of monuments. President Trump tweeted: “I promised YOU I would not take a dime of salary as your President,” Trump tweeted. “I donate the entire $400,000! It is my honor to give $100,000 to @NatlParkService to help repair and restore our GREAT National Monuments. So important to our American History! Thank You!!”

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 15th, 2020, 5:04 pm
by Joel
Image

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 15th, 2020, 10:50 pm
by Elizabeth
Condolences to President Trump on the passing of his brother Robert.

Image

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 16th, 2020, 6:17 pm
by Jason
Elizabeth wrote: August 15th, 2020, 11:27 am https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... monuments/


President Trump announced on Friday he will donate $100,000 of his annual salary to the National Park Service to aid the restoration of monuments. President Trump tweeted: “I promised YOU I would not take a dime of salary as your President,” Trump tweeted. “I donate the entire $400,000! It is my honor to give $100,000 to @NatlParkService to help repair and restore our GREAT National Monuments. So important to our American History! Thank You!!”
....wonder how much he's made off of covid???

...probably good reason he needs the tax write-off...

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 16th, 2020, 7:57 pm
by SempiternalHarbinger
Jason wrote: August 16th, 2020, 6:17 pm
Elizabeth wrote: August 15th, 2020, 11:27 am https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... monuments/


President Trump announced on Friday he will donate $100,000 of his annual salary to the National Park Service to aid the restoration of monuments. President Trump tweeted: “I promised YOU I would not take a dime of salary as your President,” Trump tweeted. “I donate the entire $400,000! It is my honor to give $100,000 to @NatlParkService to help repair and restore our GREAT National Monuments. So important to our American History! Thank You!!”
....wonder how much he's made off of covid???

...probably good reason he needs the tax write-off...
Hey brother, I hope you know that I have nothing but love and respect for you and your beautiful family. However, the same question should apply to the church. You would be hard pressed to find a bigger profiteer over this global pandemic than the church.. Zoom...Big Pharma/church investments in Pfizer (received the contract for the covid vaccine and current and active general authority heading the charge) and how their stocks are skyrocketing through this pandemic. One of many examples is the drug, Zoloft. Seems there is a shortage because many folks are going into depression over this pandemic. It's a fair question and is worth investigating.

Houston, we have a major problem.

(On my phone and will edit tomorrow)

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 17th, 2020, 8:53 am
by Jason
SempiternalHarbinger wrote: August 16th, 2020, 7:57 pm
Jason wrote: August 16th, 2020, 6:17 pm
Elizabeth wrote: August 15th, 2020, 11:27 am https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... monuments/


President Trump announced on Friday he will donate $100,000 of his annual salary to the National Park Service to aid the restoration of monuments. President Trump tweeted: “I promised YOU I would not take a dime of salary as your President,” Trump tweeted. “I donate the entire $400,000! It is my honor to give $100,000 to @NatlParkService to help repair and restore our GREAT National Monuments. So important to our American History! Thank You!!”
....wonder how much he's made off of covid???

...probably good reason he needs the tax write-off...
Hey brother, I hope you know that I have nothing but love and respect for you and your beautiful family. However, the same question should apply to the church. You would be hard pressed to find a bigger profiteer over this global pandemic than the church.. Zoom...Big Pharma/church investments in Pfizer (received the contract for the covid vaccine and current and active general authority heading the charge) and how their stocks are skyrocketing through this pandemic. One of many examples is the drug, Zoloft. Seems there is a shortage because many folks are going into depression over this pandemic. It's a fair question and is worth investigating.

Houston, we have a major problem.

(On my phone and will edit tomorrow)
I hear you and have a great deal of respect for you as well. I've seen mixed reports on church investments....up and down. Not that it matters...

I know its all perspective. I also know my personal feelings and confirmation when President Nelson was made the prophet.

I also know there are wolves among the sheep. Its been that way for a long time. The Glenn L. Pace memo that was leaked in the early 90's is a good indicator. And that has been confirmed by Apostles who have stated such in Stake and Area conferences over the years that I've heard directly or immediate family members.

I also know there are very good men who have sacrificed very prosperous businesses and careers as well as family hardships to serve to the best of their capability. I've known a few 70's via family or friends that were that way. I've also known a couple that were absolutely ruthless when it came to business and looking out for their own interests.

I also know from personal experience that the Spirit has substantiated the calling of individuals to service who either were facades at that point in time (not being obedient...like having affairs or other activities...not known at the time of the calling by those doing so but that were currently happening in their lives) or later jumped off the side of the cliff. There is an abundance of examples in my decades of life experience and church service. My only explanation or reconciliation is that the Lord was giving them an opportunity to serve for whatever His reasons were - judgments would be just, or their personality was required to touch and improve the life of another, or other??? My perspective is minute in the grand scheme of things....

So I readily acknowledge the church is an organization of people...some great...some good...some not so good...some down right bad apples. The church, as an organization of people, has no immunity to wickedness. I don't overlay the gospel of Jesus Christ with the imperfections of men. I also don't toss the baby out with the bath water. We've been promised a cleansing...I believe its not too far off.

What matters then is not where the spirituality of Tom, Dick, or Henry lies...or whatever positions they may have held or do hold at that time....but where is my standing at - pursuits, labors and actions?

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 17th, 2020, 1:12 pm
by larsenb
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 8:53 am . . . . . . I also know from personal experience that the Spirit has substantiated the calling of individuals to service who either were facades at that point in time (not being obedient...like having affairs or other activities...not known at the time of the calling by those doing so but that were currently happening in their lives) or later jumped off the side of the cliff. There is an abundance of examples in my decades of life experience and church service. My only explanation or reconciliation is that the Lord was giving them an opportunity to serve for whatever His reasons were - judgments would be just, or their personality was required to touch and improve the life of another, or other??? My perspective is minute in the grand scheme of things....

So I readily acknowledge the church is an organization of people...some great...some good...some not so good...some down right bad apples. The church, as an organization of people, has no immunity to wickedness. I don't overlay the gospel of Jesus Christ with the imperfections of men. I also don't toss the baby out with the bath water. We've been promised a cleansing...I believe its not too far off.
Hmmm . . . . I wonder if your first paragraph could be applied to DT in the secular realm to a certain degree? And you could substitute 'the government' for the 'church' in your 2nd paragraph, above.

That would actually be close to how I view the man, but don't have near the negative view of him that you do.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 17th, 2020, 1:23 pm
by Jason
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:12 pm
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 8:53 am . . . . . . I also know from personal experience that the Spirit has substantiated the calling of individuals to service who either were facades at that point in time (not being obedient...like having affairs or other activities...not known at the time of the calling by those doing so but that were currently happening in their lives) or later jumped off the side of the cliff. There is an abundance of examples in my decades of life experience and church service. My only explanation or reconciliation is that the Lord was giving them an opportunity to serve for whatever His reasons were - judgments would be just, or their personality was required to touch and improve the life of another, or other??? My perspective is minute in the grand scheme of things....

So I readily acknowledge the church is an organization of people...some great...some good...some not so good...some down right bad apples. The church, as an organization of people, has no immunity to wickedness. I don't overlay the gospel of Jesus Christ with the imperfections of men. I also don't toss the baby out with the bath water. We've been promised a cleansing...I believe its not too far off.
Hmmm . . . . I wonder if your first paragraph could be applied to DT in the secular realm to a certain degree? And you could substitute 'the government' for the 'church' in your 2nd paragraph, above.

That would actually be close to how I view the man, but don't have near the negative view of him that you do.
Sure bothers you though...

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 17th, 2020, 1:33 pm
by larsenb
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:23 pm
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:12 pm
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 8:53 am . . . . . . I also know from personal experience that the Spirit has substantiated the calling of individuals to service who either were facades at that point in time (not being obedient...like having affairs or other activities...not known at the time of the calling by those doing so but that were currently happening in their lives) or later jumped off the side of the cliff. There is an abundance of examples in my decades of life experience and church service. My only explanation or reconciliation is that the Lord was giving them an opportunity to serve for whatever His reasons were - judgments would be just, or their personality was required to touch and improve the life of another, or other??? My perspective is minute in the grand scheme of things....

So I readily acknowledge the church is an organization of people...some great...some good...some not so good...some down right bad apples. The church, as an organization of people, has no immunity to wickedness. I don't overlay the gospel of Jesus Christ with the imperfections of men. I also don't toss the baby out with the bath water. We've been promised a cleansing...I believe its not too far off.
Hmmm . . . . I wonder if your first paragraph could be applied to DT in the secular realm to a certain degree? And you could substitute 'the government' for the 'church' in your 2nd paragraph, above.

That would actually be close to how I view the man, but don't have near the negative view of him that you do.
Sure bothers you though...
No Jason. You misread me. Amused would be a better descriptor. It does bother you, though, that I keep trying to bring you to see a different viewpoint. If it didn't bother you, you might say something like: Never thought of that, there could be something to it. But you can't . .. . . apparently; because you're too wedded to your all-or-nothing negative assessment.

I do have a tough time with black-and-white assessments, especially when there is abundant evidence to the contrary.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 17th, 2020, 1:34 pm
by Jason
The open effort in Congress to wrest public lands away from the federal government and transfer them to states or private owners may seem to have subsided. But it has simply gone underground. There is a stealth battle to whittle away at federal authority over public lands that is very much in motion, as the Trump administration aggressively advances an agenda to remake U.S. policies toward those lands.

“There’s a quiet, almost covert, effort to dismantle the public lands management infrastructure,” said Jim Lyons, who was Deputy Assistant Secretary for Land and Minerals Management at the Interior Department in the Obama administration. “It’s very effective. I call it evil genius.”
https://e360.yale.edu/features/open-for ... blic-lands
On Monday, December 4, President Donald Trump signed proclamations eliminating protections for more than 2 million acres of Utah’s Bears Ears National Monument and Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument. The action, which puts wild red rock canyons; prized hunting and fishing areas; and tens of thousands of Native American archaeological sites at risk of destruction, was the largest elimination of protections for public lands in American history
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues ... -internet/

A Timeline of Donald Trump's War on Public Lands
https://www.outsideonline.com/2277446/p ... r-timeline

The Trump administration has ratcheted up its efforts amid the coronavirus pandemic to overhaul and overturn Obama-era environmental regulations and increase industry access to public lands.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... egulations

The Department of the Interior will likely sell the first leases for oil and gas drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, opening up to development the last remaining stretch of protected land along the North Slope.
https://www.typeinvestigations.org/inve ... l-promise/

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Monday finalized its plan to open up part of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska to oil and gas development, a move that overturns six decades of protections for the largest remaining stretch of wilderness in the United States.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/clim ... -anwr.html

...I know there are arguments on this on both sides...but if you've ever been somewhere dominated by private land while trying to find a fishing hole...or even getting access to something the size of lake Sakakawea...you might understand that there are some downsides...

...but when you are bankrupt...you gotta do what ya gotta do...live the libertarian dream and sell out to the highest bidder...who happens to be the one in control of the printing press....at zero or minimal cost...

...then you have the corporate track record for taking care of things...pollution and passing the buck on clean up costs to the taxpayers and all that jazz...

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 17th, 2020, 1:36 pm
by Jason
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:33 pm
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:23 pm
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:12 pm
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 8:53 am . . . . . . I also know from personal experience that the Spirit has substantiated the calling of individuals to service who either were facades at that point in time (not being obedient...like having affairs or other activities...not known at the time of the calling by those doing so but that were currently happening in their lives) or later jumped off the side of the cliff. There is an abundance of examples in my decades of life experience and church service. My only explanation or reconciliation is that the Lord was giving them an opportunity to serve for whatever His reasons were - judgments would be just, or their personality was required to touch and improve the life of another, or other??? My perspective is minute in the grand scheme of things....

So I readily acknowledge the church is an organization of people...some great...some good...some not so good...some down right bad apples. The church, as an organization of people, has no immunity to wickedness. I don't overlay the gospel of Jesus Christ with the imperfections of men. I also don't toss the baby out with the bath water. We've been promised a cleansing...I believe its not too far off.
Hmmm . . . . I wonder if your first paragraph could be applied to DT in the secular realm to a certain degree? And you could substitute 'the government' for the 'church' in your 2nd paragraph, above.

That would actually be close to how I view the man, but don't have near the negative view of him that you do.
Sure bothers you though...
No Jason. You misread me. Amused would be a better descriptor. It does bother you, though, that I keep trying to bring you to see a different viewpoint.

I do have a tough time with black-and-white assessments, especially when ALL of the evidence doesn't support that kind of approach.
Nope...you misread me as well. Amused as well. As I've said...I can sleep well at night knowing I don't have to ignore 95% of the man's life in order to fit him into my paradigm...and if I'm ignoring 5%...so be it.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 17th, 2020, 3:08 pm
by larsenb
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:36 pm
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:33 pm
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:23 pm
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:12 pm

Hmmm . . . . I wonder if your first paragraph could be applied to DT in the secular realm to a certain degree? And you could substitute 'the government' for the 'church' in your 2nd paragraph, above.

That would actually be close to how I view the man, but don't have near the negative view of him that you do.
Sure bothers you though...
No Jason. You misread me. Amused would be a better descriptor. It does bother you, though, that I keep trying to bring you to see a different viewpoint.

I do have a tough time with black-and-white assessments, especially when ALL of the evidence doesn't support that kind of approach.
Nope...you misread me as well. Amused as well. As I've said...I can sleep well at night knowing I don't have to ignore 95% of the man's life in order to fit him into my paradigm...and if I'm ignoring 5%...so be it.
My assessment would put your 5% more up to something like 80-85%.

It's a very noticeable phenomenon that most people outside of the LDS community, excluding those on the Left, don't get nearly as down on DT as many do who are LDS. But even some prominent LDS, like Sen. Lee and former Senator Hatch, have come to like the man and to support him. Why? Because they've actually worked with him and come to see that he's personable and makes a lot of sense in most of his deliberations.

And people who actually listen to what the man says in real time (rallies, press-conferences, presiding over meetings, interviews, speeches, etc., etc.), normally arrive at the same conclusion, which would make them discount a lot of the negative criticism he attracts. DT IS a polarizer. He brings out the best and the worst in people. Not much middle ground. I see this as a very useful characteristic in our present day, however. He causes people to unmask. Mitt Romney is one of these; though Mitt partakes of the characteristic, I think, that I describe below.

Non-LDS supporters and commentators like Tucker Carlson, Lou Dobbs, Laura Inghram (who is a religious Catholic), Hannity, and many, many other commentators they bring on their programs, as well as many commentators from the 'alternative' news/commentator web sites, are primarily focused on what DT says and does, how he implements his original promises, as well as being focused on the idiocy of the Left. They are critical if he deviates (most of them), but don't get hung up on what may be his past moral derelictions. Why? Because they recognize the human condition, and don't see him currently acting this way. They let these things go.

Not so for a certain portion of LDS, mainly males, who allow themselves to be powerfully drawn into their negative distaste for the man. They abhor the more salacious accusations against him, and what they see as his 'incivility'.

Here's my idea of how this works. And I really believe this, for what it's worth. Am I subject to the same thing? Of course, but I try to temper the tendency due to a certain amount of awareness.

I think those LDS males who come to detest the man, do so largely because they are projecting things from their own psyche onto him. There are two sources of this projection, in my view: First, those young males who successfully navigated the moral waters of their adolescence, might be inclined to look waaaay down on someone, not subject to the same strictures, but who didn’t display similar behavior. Secondly, those who may have suffered from significant failures in this rite of passage, might tend to hate the man for the very failures they condemn in themselves. This largely applies to 'moral' behavior, but right social behavior, such as politeness in public, could be included in this mix.

I simply don't see any other explanation for this rather strange and severe anti-Trump attitude. You can see it displayed in spades on other LDS blogs, particularly Sic et Non (DP has stopped political threads). Some people will take this to extremes by focusing on researching every negative thing in every aspect of DT's life they can find, to support their original assessment.

The only antidote I see for this condition, is to actually jump into the bitterly cold water and give an honest listen to entire speeches and other performances DT provides, to see if this is the absolutely evil man you thought he was. The only addition to this course of action, would be to do an equal amount of research of evidence and testimony that may counter the accusations against the man, or show that he has actually done a fair amount of good for quite a number of people. He HAS employed probably thousands; he has apparently loaned business start-up money to would-be black business men, then forgiven them the loans after they got up and going. And there are other good things I know about DT.

Then there are those who simply don't like his politics or what they think he stands for (e.g., greed, ostentatious capitalist) are in a different category . . . mainly the Left.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 18th, 2020, 8:45 am
by Sarah
This guy reads the forward to Michael Cohen's book about Trump.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm
by Jason
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 3:08 pm
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:36 pm Nope...you misread me as well. Amused as well. As I've said...I can sleep well at night knowing I don't have to ignore 95% of the man's life in order to fit him into my paradigm...and if I'm ignoring 5%...so be it.
My assessment would put your 5% more up to something like 80-85%.

It's a very noticeable phenomenon that most people outside of the LDS community, excluding those on the Left, don't get nearly as down on DT as many do who are LDS. But even some prominent LDS, like Sen. Lee and former Senator Hatch, have come to like the man and to support him. Why? Because they've actually worked with him and come to see that he's personable and makes a lot of sense in most of his deliberations.

And people who actually listen to what the man says in real time (rallies, press-conferences, presiding over meetings, interviews, speeches, etc., etc.), normally arrive at the same conclusion, which would make them discount a lot of the negative criticism he attracts. DT IS a polarizer. He brings out the best and the worst in people. Not much middle ground. I see this as a very useful characteristic in our present day, however. He causes people to unmask. Mitt Romney is one of these; though Mitt partakes of the characteristic, I think, that I describe below.

Non-LDS supporters and commentators like Tucker Carlson, Lou Dobbs, Laura Inghram (who is a religious Catholic), Hannity, and many, many other commentators they bring on their programs, as well as many commentators from the 'alternative' news/commentator web sites, are primarily focused on what DT says and does, how he implements his original promises, as well as being focused on the idiocy of the Left. They are critical if he deviates (most of them), but don't get hung up on what may be his past moral derelictions. Why? Because they recognize the human condition, and don't see him currently acting this way. They let these things go.

Not so for a certain portion of LDS, mainly males, who allow themselves to be powerfully drawn into their negative distaste for the man. They abhor the more salacious accusations against him, and what they see as his 'incivility'.

Here's my idea of how this works. And I really believe this, for what it's worth. Am I subject to the same thing? Of course, but I try to temper the tendency due to a certain amount of awareness.

I think those LDS males who come to detest the man, do so largely because they are projecting things from their own psyche onto him. There are two sources of this projection, in my view: First, those young males who successfully navigated the moral waters of their adolescence, might be inclined to look waaaay down on someone, not subject to the same strictures, but who didn’t display similar behavior. Secondly, those who may have suffered from significant failures in this rite of passage, might tend to hate the man for the very failures they condemn in themselves. This largely applies to 'moral' behavior, but right social behavior, such as politeness in public, could be included in this mix.

I simply don't see any other explanation for this rather strange and severe anti-Trump attitude. You can see it displayed in spades on other LDS blogs, particularly Sic et Non (DP has stopped political threads). Some people will take this to extremes by focusing on researching every negative thing in every aspect of DT's life they can find, to support their original assessment.

The only antidote I see for this condition, is to actually jump into the bitterly cold water and give an honest listen to entire speeches and other performances DT provides, to see if this is the absolutely evil man you thought he was. The only addition to this course of action, would be to do an equal amount of research of evidence and testimony that may counter the accusations against the man, or show that he has actually done a fair amount of good for quite a number of people. He HAS employed probably thousands; he has apparently loaned business start-up money to would-be black business men, then forgiven them the loans after they got up and going. And there are other good things I know about DT.

Then there are those who simply don't like his politics or what they think he stands for (e.g., greed, ostentatious capitalist) are in a different category . . . mainly the Left.
To each their own assessments...

You realize of course everything you are saying can be turned 180 degrees in terms of an introspective look at your projections, psyche, bitter cold water and a hard look at performance or fruit...from how he does business (google Trump & bankrupcty) to who he does business with...to his personal life...and not limited to one time deals or events....literally decades of supporting evidence...

I'll resist the urge to post a thousand pictures and save a million words...

...but hey speeches and words are what matters these days...and "probably"(s)....or loans to black men...[sarcasm off]...

One could argue the Federal Reserve employs or keeps employed most of the world at this point with the system they created and implemented over the last century...does that make it good or bad??? Black or white???

Very wicked world...but it doesn't mean we need to excuse it...or rationalize it....or support it.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 18th, 2020, 5:18 pm
by larsenb
Jason wrote: August 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 3:08 pm
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:36 pm Nope...you misread me as well. Amused as well. As I've said...I can sleep well at night knowing I don't have to ignore 95% of the man's life in order to fit him into my paradigm...and if I'm ignoring 5%...so be it.
My assessment would put your 5% more up to something like 80-85%.

It's a very noticeable phenomenon that most people outside of the LDS community, excluding those on the Left, don't get nearly as down on DT as many do who are LDS. But even some prominent LDS, like Sen. Lee and former Senator Hatch, have come to like the man and to support him. Why? Because they've actually worked with him and come to see that he's personable and makes a lot of sense in most of his deliberations.

And people who actually listen to what the man says in real time (rallies, press-conferences, presiding over meetings, interviews, speeches, etc., etc.), normally arrive at the same conclusion, which would make them discount a lot of the negative criticism he attracts. DT IS a polarizer. He brings out the best and the worst in people. Not much middle ground. I see this as a very useful characteristic in our present day, however. He causes people to unmask. Mitt Romney is one of these; though Mitt partakes of the characteristic, I think, that I describe below.

Non-LDS supporters and commentators like Tucker Carlson, Lou Dobbs, Laura Inghram (who is a religious Catholic), Hannity, and many, many other commentators they bring on their programs, as well as many commentators from the 'alternative' news/commentator web sites, are primarily focused on what DT says and does, how he implements his original promises, as well as being focused on the idiocy of the Left. They are critical if he deviates (most of them), but don't get hung up on what may be his past moral derelictions. Why? Because they recognize the human condition, and don't see him currently acting this way. They let these things go.

Not so for a certain portion of LDS, mainly males, who allow themselves to be powerfully drawn into their negative distaste for the man. They abhor the more salacious accusations against him, and what they see as his 'incivility'.

Here's my idea of how this works. And I really believe this, for what it's worth. Am I subject to the same thing? Of course, but I try to temper the tendency due to a certain amount of awareness.

I think those LDS males who come to detest the man, do so largely because they are projecting things from their own psyche onto him. There are two sources of this projection, in my view: First, those young males who successfully navigated the moral waters of their adolescence, might be inclined to look waaaay down on someone, not subject to the same strictures, but who didn’t display similar behavior. Secondly, those who may have suffered from significant failures in this rite of passage, might tend to hate the man for the very failures they condemn in themselves. This largely applies to 'moral' behavior, but right social behavior, such as politeness in public, could be included in this mix.

I simply don't see any other explanation for this rather strange and severe anti-Trump attitude. You can see it displayed in spades on other LDS blogs, particularly Sic et Non (DP has stopped political threads). Some people will take this to extremes by focusing on researching every negative thing in every aspect of DT's life they can find, to support their original assessment.

The only antidote I see for this condition, is to actually jump into the bitterly cold water and give an honest listen to entire speeches and other performances DT provides, to see if this is the absolutely evil man you thought he was. The only addition to this course of action, would be to do an equal amount of research of evidence and testimony that may counter the accusations against the man, or show that he has actually done a fair amount of good for quite a number of people. He HAS employed probably thousands; he has apparently loaned business start-up money to would-be black business men, then forgiven them the loans after they got up and going. And there are other good things I know about DT.

Then there are those who simply don't like his politics or what they think he stands for (e.g., greed, ostentatious capitalist) are in a different category . . . mainly the Left.
. . . .. .

You realize of course everything you are saying can be turned 180 degrees in terms of an introspective look at your projections, psyche, bitter cold water and a hard look at performance or fruit...from how he does business (google Trump & bankrupcty) to who he does business with...to his personal life...and not limited to one time deals or events....literally decades of supporting evidence...

I'll resist the urge to post a thousand pictures and save a million words...

...but hey speeches and words are what matters these days...and "probably"(s)....or loans to black men...[sarcasm off]...

One could argue the Federal Reserve employs or keeps employed most of the world at this point with the system they created and implemented over the last century...does that make it good or bad??? Black or white???

Very wicked world...but it doesn't mean we need to excuse it...or rationalize it....or support it.
Yes, it's a very wicked world. And the Fed plays a significant role in this.

And no, I don't really fit your 180 deg. flip of my analysis. I'm simply not black-and-white about the man, as you are. This allows me to be much more objective about him.

I recognize he hasn't been a paragon of virtue, that he may have taken advantage of easy Russian money; I decry some of the things he has done as President. But on balance, I think he has done some very good things in this position that should be recognized and that were necessary to do.

And being employed by Trump to build a hotel, or to work at the hotel, or casino, or whatever, after they were built, is only slightly comparable to working for the Fed, but only if you see Trump as being wholly evil. Which you apparently do.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 18th, 2020, 8:32 pm
by Joel
Image

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 19th, 2020, 8:27 am
by Jason
larsenb wrote: August 18th, 2020, 5:18 pm
Jason wrote: August 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 3:08 pm
Jason wrote: August 17th, 2020, 1:36 pm Nope...you misread me as well. Amused as well. As I've said...I can sleep well at night knowing I don't have to ignore 95% of the man's life in order to fit him into my paradigm...and if I'm ignoring 5%...so be it.
My assessment would put your 5% more up to something like 80-85%.

It's a very noticeable phenomenon that most people outside of the LDS community, excluding those on the Left, don't get nearly as down on DT as many do who are LDS. But even some prominent LDS, like Sen. Lee and former Senator Hatch, have come to like the man and to support him. Why? Because they've actually worked with him and come to see that he's personable and makes a lot of sense in most of his deliberations.

And people who actually listen to what the man says in real time (rallies, press-conferences, presiding over meetings, interviews, speeches, etc., etc.), normally arrive at the same conclusion, which would make them discount a lot of the negative criticism he attracts. DT IS a polarizer. He brings out the best and the worst in people. Not much middle ground. I see this as a very useful characteristic in our present day, however. He causes people to unmask. Mitt Romney is one of these; though Mitt partakes of the characteristic, I think, that I describe below.

Non-LDS supporters and commentators like Tucker Carlson, Lou Dobbs, Laura Inghram (who is a religious Catholic), Hannity, and many, many other commentators they bring on their programs, as well as many commentators from the 'alternative' news/commentator web sites, are primarily focused on what DT says and does, how he implements his original promises, as well as being focused on the idiocy of the Left. They are critical if he deviates (most of them), but don't get hung up on what may be his past moral derelictions. Why? Because they recognize the human condition, and don't see him currently acting this way. They let these things go.

Not so for a certain portion of LDS, mainly males, who allow themselves to be powerfully drawn into their negative distaste for the man. They abhor the more salacious accusations against him, and what they see as his 'incivility'.

Here's my idea of how this works. And I really believe this, for what it's worth. Am I subject to the same thing? Of course, but I try to temper the tendency due to a certain amount of awareness.

I think those LDS males who come to detest the man, do so largely because they are projecting things from their own psyche onto him. There are two sources of this projection, in my view: First, those young males who successfully navigated the moral waters of their adolescence, might be inclined to look waaaay down on someone, not subject to the same strictures, but who didn’t display similar behavior. Secondly, those who may have suffered from significant failures in this rite of passage, might tend to hate the man for the very failures they condemn in themselves. This largely applies to 'moral' behavior, but right social behavior, such as politeness in public, could be included in this mix.

I simply don't see any other explanation for this rather strange and severe anti-Trump attitude. You can see it displayed in spades on other LDS blogs, particularly Sic et Non (DP has stopped political threads). Some people will take this to extremes by focusing on researching every negative thing in every aspect of DT's life they can find, to support their original assessment.

The only antidote I see for this condition, is to actually jump into the bitterly cold water and give an honest listen to entire speeches and other performances DT provides, to see if this is the absolutely evil man you thought he was. The only addition to this course of action, would be to do an equal amount of research of evidence and testimony that may counter the accusations against the man, or show that he has actually done a fair amount of good for quite a number of people. He HAS employed probably thousands; he has apparently loaned business start-up money to would-be black business men, then forgiven them the loans after they got up and going. And there are other good things I know about DT.

Then there are those who simply don't like his politics or what they think he stands for (e.g., greed, ostentatious capitalist) are in a different category . . . mainly the Left.
. . . .. .

You realize of course everything you are saying can be turned 180 degrees in terms of an introspective look at your projections, psyche, bitter cold water and a hard look at performance or fruit...from how he does business (google Trump & bankrupcty) to who he does business with...to his personal life...and not limited to one time deals or events....literally decades of supporting evidence...

I'll resist the urge to post a thousand pictures and save a million words...

...but hey speeches and words are what matters these days...and "probably"(s)....or loans to black men...[sarcasm off]...

One could argue the Federal Reserve employs or keeps employed most of the world at this point with the system they created and implemented over the last century...does that make it good or bad??? Black or white???

Very wicked world...but it doesn't mean we need to excuse it...or rationalize it....or support it.
Yes, it's a very wicked world. And the Fed plays a significant role in this.

And no, I don't really fit your 180 deg. flip of my analysis. I'm simply not black-and-white about the man, as you are. This allows me to be much more objective about him.

I recognize he hasn't been a paragon of virtue, that he may have taken advantage of easy Russian money; I decry some of the things he has done as President. But on balance, I think he has done some very good things in this position that should be recognized and that were necessary to do.

And being employed by Trump to build a hotel, or to work at the hotel, or casino, or whatever, after they were built, is only slightly comparable to working for the Fed, but only if you see Trump as being wholly evil. Which you apparently do.
I do...that should be quite obvious by now.

...and there is plenty of evidence to support it...with a little google search on this or that...from the bankruptcy business to money laundering to the gambling business/Italian Mafia to the women to the Russian Mafia to the Rothschilds to the Bilderbergs/CIA/Tavistock Institute and related organizations.

But to each their own.

Reality is though...the world is black and white. There are only 2 sides. The intent to paint 50 shades of gray comes from one side only...

And here's to irony...

President Xi Launches Historic Purge Against China's 'Deep State'
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... deep-state

...bedfellows

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 19th, 2020, 11:33 am
by larsenb
Dup.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 19th, 2020, 11:36 am
by larsenb
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 8:27 am
larsenb wrote: August 18th, 2020, 5:18 pm
Jason wrote: August 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm
larsenb wrote: August 17th, 2020, 3:08 pm
My assessment would put your 5% more up to something like 80-85%.

It's a very noticeable phenomenon that most people outside of the LDS community, excluding those on the Left, don't get nearly as down on DT as many do who are LDS. But even some prominent LDS, like Sen. Lee and former Senator Hatch, have come to like the man and to support him. Why? Because they've actually worked with him and come to see that he's personable and makes a lot of sense in most of his deliberations.

And people who actually listen to what the man says in real time (rallies, press-conferences, presiding over meetings, interviews, speeches, etc., etc.), normally arrive at the same conclusion, which would make them discount a lot of the negative criticism he attracts. DT IS a polarizer. He brings out the best and the worst in people. Not much middle ground. I see this as a very useful characteristic in our present day, however. He causes people to unmask. Mitt Romney is one of these; though Mitt partakes of the characteristic, I think, that I describe below.

Non-LDS supporters and commentators like Tucker Carlson, Lou Dobbs, Laura Inghram (who is a religious Catholic), Hannity, and many, many other commentators they bring on their programs, as well as many commentators from the 'alternative' news/commentator web sites, are primarily focused on what DT says and does, how he implements his original promises, as well as being focused on the idiocy of the Left. They are critical if he deviates (most of them), but don't get hung up on what may be his past moral derelictions. Why? Because they recognize the human condition, and don't see him currently acting this way. They let these things go.

Not so for a certain portion of LDS, mainly males, who allow themselves to be powerfully drawn into their negative distaste for the man. They abhor the more salacious accusations against him, and what they see as his 'incivility'.

Here's my idea of how this works. And I really believe this, for what it's worth. Am I subject to the same thing? Of course, but I try to temper the tendency due to a certain amount of awareness.

I think those LDS males who come to detest the man, do so largely because they are projecting things from their own psyche onto him. There are two sources of this projection, in my view: First, those young males who successfully navigated the moral waters of their adolescence, might be inclined to look waaaay down on someone, not subject to the same strictures, but who didn’t display similar behavior. Secondly, those who may have suffered from significant failures in this rite of passage, might tend to hate the man for the very failures they condemn in themselves. This largely applies to 'moral' behavior, but right social behavior, such as politeness in public, could be included in this mix.

I simply don't see any other explanation for this rather strange and severe anti-Trump attitude. You can see it displayed in spades on other LDS blogs, particularly Sic et Non (DP has stopped political threads). Some people will take this to extremes by focusing on researching every negative thing in every aspect of DT's life they can find, to support their original assessment.

The only antidote I see for this condition, is to actually jump into the bitterly cold water and give an honest listen to entire speeches and other performances DT provides, to see if this is the absolutely evil man you thought he was. The only addition to this course of action, would be to do an equal amount of research of evidence and testimony that may counter the accusations against the man, or show that he has actually done a fair amount of good for quite a number of people. He HAS employed probably thousands; he has apparently loaned business start-up money to would-be black business men, then forgiven them the loans after they got up and going. And there are other good things I know about DT.

Then there are those who simply don't like his politics or what they think he stands for (e.g., greed, ostentatious capitalist) are in a different category . . . mainly the Left.
. . . .. .

You realize of course everything you are saying can be turned 180 degrees in terms of an introspective look at your projections, psyche, bitter cold water and a hard look at performance or fruit...from how he does business (google Trump & bankrupcty) to who he does business with...to his personal life...and not limited to one time deals or events....literally decades of supporting evidence...

I'll resist the urge to post a thousand pictures and save a million words...

...but hey speeches and words are what matters these days...and "probably"(s)....or loans to black men...[sarcasm off]...

One could argue the Federal Reserve employs or keeps employed most of the world at this point with the system they created and implemented over the last century...does that make it good or bad??? Black or white???

Very wicked world...but it doesn't mean we need to excuse it...or rationalize it....or support it.
Yes, it's a very wicked world. And the Fed plays a significant role in this.

And no, I don't really fit your 180 deg. flip of my analysis. I'm simply not black-and-white about the man, as you are. This allows me to be much more objective about him.

I recognize he hasn't been a paragon of virtue, that he may have taken advantage of easy Russian money; I decry some of the things he has done as President. But on balance, I think he has done some very good things in this position that should be recognized and that were necessary to do.

And being employed by Trump to build a hotel, or to work at the hotel, or casino, or whatever, after they were built, is only slightly comparable to working for the Fed, but only if you see Trump as being wholly evil. Which you apparently do.
I do...that should be quite obvious by now.

...and there is plenty of evidence to support it...with a little google search on this or that...from the bankruptcy business to money laundering to the gambling business/Italian Mafia to the women to the Russian Mafia to the Rothschilds to the Bilderbergs/CIA/Tavistock Institute and related organizations.

But to each their own.

Reality is though...the world is black and white. There are only 2 sides. The intent to paint 50 shades of gray comes from one side only...

And here's to irony...

President Xi Launches Historic Purge Against China's 'Deep State'
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... deep-state

...bedfellows
"Intent to paint"?? Nope. "Ability to recognize" is the actuality. And so now, Jason, you've got me pigeonholed as being on the side of evil, along with all those who have supported the man or think as I do, including myriad commentators? My, my.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 19th, 2020, 1:40 pm
by Jason
larsenb wrote: August 19th, 2020, 11:36 am
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 8:27 am
larsenb wrote: August 18th, 2020, 5:18 pm
Jason wrote: August 18th, 2020, 12:53 pm . . . .. .

You realize of course everything you are saying can be turned 180 degrees in terms of an introspective look at your projections, psyche, bitter cold water and a hard look at performance or fruit...from how he does business (google Trump & bankrupcty) to who he does business with...to his personal life...and not limited to one time deals or events....literally decades of supporting evidence...

I'll resist the urge to post a thousand pictures and save a million words...

...but hey speeches and words are what matters these days...and "probably"(s)....or loans to black men...[sarcasm off]...

One could argue the Federal Reserve employs or keeps employed most of the world at this point with the system they created and implemented over the last century...does that make it good or bad??? Black or white???

Very wicked world...but it doesn't mean we need to excuse it...or rationalize it....or support it.
Yes, it's a very wicked world. And the Fed plays a significant role in this.

And no, I don't really fit your 180 deg. flip of my analysis. I'm simply not black-and-white about the man, as you are. This allows me to be much more objective about him.

I recognize he hasn't been a paragon of virtue, that he may have taken advantage of easy Russian money; I decry some of the things he has done as President. But on balance, I think he has done some very good things in this position that should be recognized and that were necessary to do.

And being employed by Trump to build a hotel, or to work at the hotel, or casino, or whatever, after they were built, is only slightly comparable to working for the Fed, but only if you see Trump as being wholly evil. Which you apparently do.
I do...that should be quite obvious by now.

...and there is plenty of evidence to support it...with a little google search on this or that...from the bankruptcy business to money laundering to the gambling business/Italian Mafia to the women to the Russian Mafia to the Rothschilds to the Bilderbergs/CIA/Tavistock Institute and related organizations.

But to each their own.

Reality is though...the world is black and white. There are only 2 sides. The intent to paint 50 shades of gray comes from one side only...

And here's to irony...

President Xi Launches Historic Purge Against China's 'Deep State'
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... deep-state

...bedfellows
"Intent to paint"?? Nope. "Ability to recognize" is the actuality. And so now, Jason, you've got me pigeonholed as being on the side of evil, along with all those who have supported the man or think as I do, including myriad commentators? My, my.
You said it...not me.

Simply fascinating though that you dived into 9/11 yet nothing has changed since then in terms of power players and government...except a few faces and propaganda lines...yet turn a blind eye to all of Trump's history???

And this expectation of some grand revealing on Trump...did that happen with Bush's? Clinton's? Obama?

Only reason Monica became mainstream news...was to detract from Clinton's legal entanglements with China...

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 19th, 2020, 2:45 pm
by larsenb
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 1:40 pm
larsenb wrote: August 19th, 2020, 11:36 am
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 8:27 am
larsenb wrote: August 18th, 2020, 5:18 pm

Yes, it's a very wicked world. And the Fed plays a significant role in this.

And no, I don't really fit your 180 deg. flip of my analysis. I'm simply not black-and-white about the man, as you are. This allows me to be much more objective about him.

I recognize he hasn't been a paragon of virtue, that he may have taken advantage of easy Russian money; I decry some of the things he has done as President. But on balance, I think he has done some very good things in this position that should be recognized and that were necessary to do.

And being employed by Trump to build a hotel, or to work at the hotel, or casino, or whatever, after they were built, is only slightly comparable to working for the Fed, but only if you see Trump as being wholly evil. Which you apparently do.
I do...that should be quite obvious by now.

...and there is plenty of evidence to support it...with a little google search on this or that...from the bankruptcy business to money laundering to the gambling business/Italian Mafia to the women to the Russian Mafia to the Rothschilds to the Bilderbergs/CIA/Tavistock Institute and related organizations.

But to each their own.

Reality is though...the world is black and white. There are only 2 sides. The intent to paint 50 shades of gray comes from one side only...

And here's to irony...

President Xi Launches Historic Purge Against China's 'Deep State'
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... deep-state

...bedfellows
"Intent to paint"?? Nope. "Ability to recognize" is the actuality. And so now, Jason, you've got me pigeonholed as being on the side of evil, along with all those who have supported the man or think as I do, including myriad commentators? My, my.
You said it...not me.

Simply fascinating though that you dived into 9/11 yet nothing has changed since then in terms of power players and government...except a few faces and propaganda lines...yet turn a blind eye to all of Trump's history???

And this expectation of some grand revealing on Trump...did that happen with Bush's? Clinton's? Obama?

Only reason Monica became mainstream news...was to detract from Clinton's legal entanglements with China...
You equate the events of 9/11 with Trump's past, some of which may have been below board??! Astonishing.

You still don't get it. For me, w/my political leanings and understanding, Bush1, Bush2, Clinton and certainly Obama were NEVER up for consideration as viable Presidential candidates. Trump was. Why? Because his platform (never mentioned by the DesNews) resonated with me and a good portion of fly-over zone voters, aka deplorables. Period full stop.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 19th, 2020, 5:56 pm
by Jason
larsenb wrote: August 19th, 2020, 2:45 pm
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 1:40 pm
larsenb wrote: August 19th, 2020, 11:36 am
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 8:27 am
I do...that should be quite obvious by now.

...and there is plenty of evidence to support it...with a little google search on this or that...from the bankruptcy business to money laundering to the gambling business/Italian Mafia to the women to the Russian Mafia to the Rothschilds to the Bilderbergs/CIA/Tavistock Institute and related organizations.

But to each their own.

Reality is though...the world is black and white. There are only 2 sides. The intent to paint 50 shades of gray comes from one side only...

And here's to irony...

President Xi Launches Historic Purge Against China's 'Deep State'
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... deep-state

...bedfellows
"Intent to paint"?? Nope. "Ability to recognize" is the actuality. And so now, Jason, you've got me pigeonholed as being on the side of evil, along with all those who have supported the man or think as I do, including myriad commentators? My, my.
You said it...not me.

Simply fascinating though that you dived into 9/11 yet nothing has changed since then in terms of power players and government...except a few faces and propaganda lines...yet turn a blind eye to all of Trump's history???

And this expectation of some grand revealing on Trump...did that happen with Bush's? Clinton's? Obama?

Only reason Monica became mainstream news...was to detract from Clinton's legal entanglements with China...
You equate the events of 9/11 with Trump's past, some of which may have been below board??! Astonishing.

You still don't get it. For me, w/my political leanings and understanding, Bush1, Bush2, Clinton and certainly Obama were NEVER up for consideration as viable Presidential candidates. Trump was. Why? Because his platform (never mentioned by the DesNews) resonated with me and a good portion of fly-over zone voters, aka deplorables. Period full stop.
Oh I get it...continuation of the same...just different faces...different propaganda...

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 20th, 2020, 1:30 pm
by larsenb
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 5:56 pm
larsenb wrote: August 19th, 2020, 2:45 pm
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 1:40 pm
larsenb wrote: August 19th, 2020, 11:36 am

"Intent to paint"?? Nope. "Ability to recognize" is the actuality. And so now, Jason, you've got me pigeonholed as being on the side of evil, along with all those who have supported the man or think as I do, including myriad commentators? My, my.
You said it...not me.

Simply fascinating though that you dived into 9/11 yet nothing has changed since then in terms of power players and government...except a few faces and propaganda lines...yet turn a blind eye to all of Trump's history???

And this expectation of some grand revealing on Trump...did that happen with Bush's? Clinton's? Obama?

Only reason Monica became mainstream news...was to detract from Clinton's legal entanglements with China...
You equate the events of 9/11 with Trump's past, some of which may have been below board??! Astonishing.

You still don't get it. For me, w/my political leanings and understanding, Bush1, Bush2, Clinton and certainly Obama were NEVER up for consideration as viable Presidential candidates. Trump was. Why? Because his platform (never mentioned by the DesNews) resonated with me and a good portion of fly-over zone voters, aka deplorables. Period full stop.
Oh I get it...continuation of the same...just different faces...different propaganda...
I've never encountered a person who is a Never Trumper or suffering from various degrees of TDS whom I've been able to have an actual conversation with, let alone convincing them of anything I may bring up. Always adversarial.

This is one of the characteristics of those caught up in this type of mentality; others are a tendency to use sarcasm, negative black-and-white assessments and/or sweeping generalities, loss of objectivity, to mention a few.

Unfortunately, the research techniques of throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks and assessing guilt due any type of association or proximity, really won't cut it in a true academic setting. One item of this type you recently used was the Trump as trickster article laced with Jungian archetype allusions. Good grief.

And true to the form I've described, I doubt very much I'm going to see anything different from you, at least on the Trump issue, despite agreeing with you on many others.

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 20th, 2020, 6:24 pm
by Jason
larsenb wrote: August 20th, 2020, 1:30 pm
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 5:56 pm
larsenb wrote: August 19th, 2020, 2:45 pm
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 1:40 pm

You said it...not me.

Simply fascinating though that you dived into 9/11 yet nothing has changed since then in terms of power players and government...except a few faces and propaganda lines...yet turn a blind eye to all of Trump's history???

And this expectation of some grand revealing on Trump...did that happen with Bush's? Clinton's? Obama?

Only reason Monica became mainstream news...was to detract from Clinton's legal entanglements with China...
You equate the events of 9/11 with Trump's past, some of which may have been below board??! Astonishing.

You still don't get it. For me, w/my political leanings and understanding, Bush1, Bush2, Clinton and certainly Obama were NEVER up for consideration as viable Presidential candidates. Trump was. Why? Because his platform (never mentioned by the DesNews) resonated with me and a good portion of fly-over zone voters, aka deplorables. Period full stop.
Oh I get it...continuation of the same...just different faces...different propaganda...
I've never encountered a person who is a Never Trumper or suffering from various degrees of TDS whom I've been able to have an actual conversation with, let alone convincing them of anything I may bring up. Always adversarial.

This is one of the characteristics of those caught up in this type of mentality; others are a tendency to use sarcasm, negative black-and-white assessments and/or sweeping generalities, loss of objectivity, to mention a few.

Unfortunately, the research techniques of throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks and assessing guilt due any type of association or proximity, really won't cut it in a true academic setting. One item of this type you recently used was the Trump as trickster article laced with Jungian archetype allusions. Good grief.

And true to the form I've described, I doubt very much I'm going to see anything different from you, at least on the Trump issue, despite agreeing with you on many others.
Academic setting? Doesn't that require more than just opinion? Like supporting documentation....

Well if you knew anything about the Tavistock Institute...you would know they created Jungian archetypes....so yeah nature of the beast....literally.

Well if there was evidence to the contrary...you might. Not some stupid speech which he can back peddle on days later...and typically does...

Meanwhile the vaccine groundwork continues...
The United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) released an amendment to the PREP Act that allows pharmacists to administer vaccines to children in all 50 states. This update to the PREP Act (Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act) was a third amendment made on August 19, 2020. This authority has several requirements which must be met before vaccinations can be ordered and/or administered.
https://www.slashgear.com/pharmacists-c ... -19634302/
The Trump administration is asking governors to consider sending the National Guard to hospitals to help improve data collection about novel coronavirus patients, supplies and capacity, according to a letter, internal emails and officials familiar with the plans.

The move is part of a new data reporting protocol for hospitals that eliminates the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as a recipient of that information — a decision that is sparking controversy about whether or not the data is reliable.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... d-19-data/
The Department of Health and Human Services announced on May 15 that Army Gen. Gustave Perna would be the chief operating officer of Operation Warp Speed — a joint project of HHS and the Department of Defense that aims “to accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution” of a COVID-19 vaccine. The goal is to have 300 million vaccination doses available by January.

HHS will use “traditional vaccine distribution networks” to deliver the vaccines, a senior HHS official told us on the condition that we not use the official’s name. The Defense Department will handle the logistics of distribution and manufacturing, including assembling the vaccination kits, according to a senior administration official who spoke anonymously at a July 30 background briefing.

But there’s no evidence that the military is “fully set up” to distribute a vaccine or that it will play a major role in the actual distribution of the vaccines, contrary to Trump’s remarks on July 28.

The amount of work that still remains to do was evident at the July 30 background briefing, where two senior administration officials described some of the biggest logistical challenges to delivering vaccines, such as planning “for a multitude of scenarios,” depending on the type of vaccine and the number of doses available; setting priorities when limited doses are available; and creating an IT system “to keep track of every individual in the country who’s getting” a vaccine. All of that work is in progress.

Dr. Paul Offit, chair of vaccinology at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania and a member of the Food and Drug Administration’s vaccines advisory committee, said he believes there is a plan, but he doesn’t know what it is — even after attending two briefings with Defense Department officials involved in the planning.

“I don’t know if there is or isn’t [a plan]. I’m choosing to believe there is a plan – I can’t image they don’t have a plan,” Offit said in a phone interview.

“I don’t think it is fair for Joe Biden to say there is no plan,” Offit said. “It is fair to say we don’t know what the plan is, and we may never know,” because of the “secretive culture of the Defense Department.”

The goal of Operation Warp Speed is to begin manufacturing a vaccine even before it is authorized or approved for use, as explained in an HHS fact sheet. That would allow for wide distribution of the vaccine more quickly once it is proven to be safe and effective and receives all necessary government approvals. (The FDA must authorize or approve the vaccine and manufacturing process.)

In addition to the military, several federal agencies at the HHS are involved in the development and manufacturing of a vaccine, including the CDC, FDA, the National Institutes of Health and the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority.

Offit said he supports the concept of Operation Warp Speed. “I give credit to the administration for doing this,” he said. “Vaccine is ultimately our way out of this.”

The administration has contracts with several pharmaceutical companies to mass produce their vaccine candidates at the government’s expense. On July 31, the administration announced a $2 billion agreement with Sanofi and GlaxoSmithKline that will, among other things, provide for the production of 100 million vaccine doses, with an option to purchase an additional 500 million. Similar contracts were announced Johnson & Johnson for 100 million doses of its vaccine candidate and AstraZeneca for 300 million doses.

“If it doesn’t work, we throw it away,” Offit said of the vaccines that fail to win government approval. “That’s fine. I think that’s all good.”

Trump repeatedly has said a vaccine would be available “by the end of the year,” even suggesting recently that it may be ready well before the end of the year. “We’re balancing speed and safety, and we’re on pace to have a vaccine available this year, maybe far in advance of the end of the year,” he said at an Aug. 3 press briefing.

Three days later, Trump in a radio interview with Geraldo Rivera said that it is “possible before” the election, “but right around that time.”

Trump claimed that the military is “fully set up” to deliver the vaccines, and a senior administration official at the July 30 briefing seemed to confirm that the Defense Department is handling “all the logistics.”

“The DOD is handling all the logistics of getting the vaccines to the right place at the right time and the right condition,” the official said. “And it’s not just the logistics of distribution it is the logistics of manufacturing and the logistics of preparing for manufacturing as well. And it involves things like kitting,” referring to the assembling of the vaccination kits.

“So, you know, we’re in receipt and we’ll continue to be in receipt of hundreds of millions of needles, and syringes and vials. And all of those need to be prepared properly by type of vaccine,” the officials said. “The DOD is handling all of those logistics.”

Offit said he believes there will be two or three vaccines and some may require two doses, meaning that the distribution system requires tracking people to make sure they get a second dose. That would be done by the CDC, a senior administration official said in the July 30 briefing.

“Things like postvaccination, tracking of patients will be handled as you could expect by the CDC,” the official said. “Some of the communications through the state and the state relationships [with] the state public health organizations will be handled through the CDC.”

One administration official said there is “a huge IT component” to the administration’s plans to distribute the vaccines and track those who receive doses.

“We will be leveraging a lot of private partners who already have a good deal of that in place,” the official said. “We are under negotiation with several of them, but suffice it to say, we are not developing all that from scratch.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/dueli ... tribution/
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues ... cine-plan/

...if you know anything about Paul Offit and vaccines...that ought to give you a pause...and the alarm bells should be ringing...

...you may not like the 9/11 comparison but I believe its very applicable to Covid-19...and is a game changer just as 9/11 was in legislation and making executive changes in America....
On the vaccine front, some very good news. Today, I met with the leaders of Operation Warp Speed, our historic undertaking to produce a safe and effective vaccine in record time.

We heard an update from the top scientists and the government and the leaders of pharmaceutical companies, which, right now, aren’t too thrilled with me. They’re taking millions of dollars’ worth of ads because I’ve created a favored-nation status for drugs, which is going to reduce drug prices by 40, 50, 60, and maybe even 70 percent in some cases — numbers that have never been heard or thought of. So when you see those ads, remember: That means your drug prices are coming down. When you see ads attacking your President, it’s very simple — that means drug prices are going to be falling very soon.

This evening, I’m pleased to announce that we have reached an agreement with Moderna to manufacture and deliver 100 million doses of their coronavirus vaccine candidate. The federal government will own these vaccine doses; we’re buying them.

Recently, we also secured partnerships with Johnson & Johnson, as well as Sanofi and GSX [GSK] to support the large-scale manufacturing of their vaccines. Doing very well on those vaccines — tremendous promise in every single one of them, and we have many of them. And they’re years ahead of schedule. This would have been — if it were in the previous administration or any of the previous administrations, where we are now would have taken years.

Three vaccine candidates are now in phase three trials already — the final stage of clinical trials. This is the final stage. We are investing in the development and manufacture of the top six vaccine candidates to ensure rapid delivery. The military is ready to go. They’re ready to deliver a vaccine to Americans as soon as one is fully approved by the FDA, and we’re moving very close to that approval.

We’re on track to rapidly produce 100 million doses, as soon as the vaccine is approved, and up to 500 million shortly thereafter. So we’ll have 600 million doses. Operation Warp Speed is the largest and most advanced operation of its kind anywhere in the world and anywhere in history.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st ... t-11-2020/
Established years before the current pandemic, the program was halfway done when the first case of the novel coronavirus arrived in the United States early this year. But everyone involved in the effort by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) knew their time had come ahead of schedule.

The four teams participating in the program abandoned their plans and began sprinting, separately, toward the development of an antibody for covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus.

“We have been thinking about and preparing for this for a long time, and it’s almost a bit surreal,” said Amy Jenkins, manager of DARPA’s antibody program, which is known as the Pandemic Prevention Platform, or P3. “We are very hopeful that we will at least be able to have an impact on this outbreak. We want to make a difference.”

The first company in the United States to enter clinical trials with a vaccine for the virus was funded by DARPA. So was the second company. And the P3 program has already led to the world’s first study in humans of a potential covid-19 antibody treatment. If successful, antibody treatments would offer up to three months of immunity against covid-19. Unlike vaccines, they could also help heal people already infected with the virus.

Some of the vaccines and antibodies linked to DARPA could be ready later this year, which would mark one of the speediest responses to a global pandemic in the history of medicine.

By 2019, a project DARPA funded at the Massachusetts-based company Moderna demonstrated in a Phase 1 clinical trial that RNA could indeed deliver an antibody to humans and provide protection against the mosquito-borne virus chikungunya. It was an affirmation of Wattendorf’s bet that came after years of DARPA funding the effort.

Today, RNA vaccines, although still experimental, are among the fastest-moving candidates in the race to stop covid-19. In March, Moderna was the first company in the United States to enter Phase 1 trials with a covid-1 vaccine using RNA. The company injected its first test into a human 66 days after receiving the virus’s genetic code. Phase 2 trials began in May, and Phase 3 began on July 27, making it possible that the vaccine could be available by the end of the year.

In addition to Moderna, two other pharmaceutical companies — Pfizer and CureVac — are pursuing RNA vaccines, as is a small laboratory at Imperial College in London and the People’s Liberation Army Academy of Military Sciences in China. CureVac was also funded by DARPA.

“DARPA comes off as a visionary organization that was ringing people’s doorbells and saying you have to prepare for this,” said Mark C. Poznansky, director of the Mass General Vaccine and Immunotherapy Center.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
In 2006, DARPA announced its Predicting Health and Disease (PHD) program, which sought to determine “whether an individual will develop an infectious disease prior to the onset of symptoms.” The PHD program planned to accomplish this by “identifying changes in the baseline state of human health through frequent surveillance” with a specific focus on “viral, upper respiratory pathogens.”

Three years later, in 2010, DARPA-funded researchers at Duke University created the foundation for this tool, which would use the genetic analysis of blood samples to determine if someone is infected with a virus before they show symptoms. Reports at the time claimed that these “preemptive diagnoses” would be transmitted to “a national, web-based influenza map” available via smartphone.

Following the creation of DARPA’s BTO in 2014, this particular program gave rise to the “In Vivo Nanoplatforms (IVN)” program. The diagnostics branch of that program, abbreviated as IVN:Dx, “investigates technologies that incorporate implantable nanoplatforms composed of bio-compatible, nontoxic materials; in vivo sensing of small and large molecules of biological interest; multiplexed detection of analytes at clinically relevant concentrations; and external interrogation of the nanoplatforms without using implanted electronics for communication.” Past reports on the program describe it as developing “classes of nanoparticles to sense and treat illness, disease, and infection on the inside. The tech involves implantable nanoparticles which sense specific molecules of biological interest.”

DARPA’s IVN program has since helped to finance and produce “soft, flexible hydrogels that are injected just beneath the skin to perform [health] monitoring and that sync to a smartphone app to give the use immediate health insights,” a product currently marketed and created by the DARPA-funded and National Institutes of Health (NIH)-funded company Profusa. Profusa, which has received millions upon millions from DARPA in recent years, asserts that the information generated by their injectable biosensor would be “securely shared” and accessible to “individuals, physicians and public health practitioners.” However, the current push for a national “contact tracing” system based on citizens’ private health data is likely to expand that data sharing, conveniently fitting with DARPA’s years-old goal of creating a national, web-based database of preemptive diagnoses.

Profusa is also backed by Google, which is intimately involved in these new mass surveillance “contact tracing” initiatives, and counts former Senate majority leader William Frist among its board members. They are also partnered with the National Institutes of Health (NIH)The company also has considerable overlap with the diagnostic company Cepheid, which recently won FDA approval for its rapid coronavirus test and was previously awarded lucrative government contracts to detect anthrax in the U.S. postal system. As of this past March, Profusa again won DARPA funding to determine if their injectable biosensors can predict future pandemics, including the now widely predicted “second wave” of Covid-19, and detect those infected up to three weeks before they would otherwise show symptoms. The company expects to have its biosensors FDA licensed for this purpose by early next year, about the same time a coronavirus vaccine is expected to be available to the general public.

For example, in 2015, Michael Goldblatt, then-director of DARPA’s Defense Sciences Office (DSO), which oversees most aspects of the agency’s “super soldier” program, told journalist Annie Jacobsen that he saw no difference between “having a chip in your brain that could help control your thoughts” and “a cochlear implant that helps the deaf hear.” When pressed about the unintended consequences of such technology, Goldblatt stated that “there are unintended consequences for everything.”

For instance, the top funders behind Inovio Pharmaceuticals include both DARPA and the Pentagon’s Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) and the company has received millions in dollars in grants from DARPA, including a $45 million grant to develop a vaccine for Ebola. They were also recently awarded over $8 million from the U.S. military to develop a small, portable intradermal device for delivering DNA vaccines, which was jointly developed by Inovio and the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), which also manages the “biodefense” lab at Fort Detrick.

In addition, the German company CureVac, which is also developing a CEPI-backed RNA vaccine for Covid-19, is another long-time recipient of DARPA funding. They were one of DARPA’s earliest investments in the technology, winning a $33.1 million DARPA contract to develop their “RNActive” vaccine platform in 2011.

In Moderna’s case, DARPA financed the production and development of their RNA vaccine production platform and their RNA therapy candidate for Chikungunya virus (their first for an infectious disease) was developed in direct collaboration with the agency. Since 2016, Moderna’s RNA vaccine program has received $100 million in funding from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. The Gates Foundation has since poured millions directly into both Moderna’s and Inovio’s Covid-19 vaccine efforts.

Gates’ backing of DNA and RNA vaccines is significant, given that Gates – a billionaire with unparalleled influence and control over global healthcare policy – recently asserted that the best options for a Covid-19 vaccine are these same vaccines, despite the fact that they have never before been approved for use in humans. Yet, thanks to the emergency authorizations activated due to the current crisis, both Moderna’s and Inovio’s testing for these vaccines has skipped animal trials and gone straight to human testing. They are also set to be fast-tracked for widespread use in a matter of months. Moderna’s clinical trial in humans began in mid-March, followed by Inovio’s in the beginning of April. Thus, they are not only Gates’ favorites to be the new vaccine, but are also slated to be the first to complete clinical trials and garner emergency U.S. government approval, especially Moderna’s vaccine which is being jointly developed with the government’s NIH.
https://hiddenhistorycenter.org/coronav ... st-agenda/

Re: TRUMP.

Posted: August 20th, 2020, 7:38 pm
by larsenb
Jason wrote: August 20th, 2020, 6:24 pm
larsenb wrote: August 20th, 2020, 1:30 pm
Jason wrote: August 19th, 2020, 5:56 pm
larsenb wrote: August 19th, 2020, 2:45 pm
You equate the events of 9/11 with Trump's past, some of which may have been below board??! Astonishing.

You still don't get it. For me, w/my political leanings and understanding, Bush1, Bush2, Clinton and certainly Obama were NEVER up for consideration as viable Presidential candidates. Trump was. Why? Because his platform (never mentioned by the DesNews) resonated with me and a good portion of fly-over zone voters, aka deplorables. Period full stop.
Oh I get it...continuation of the same...just different faces...different propaganda...
I've never encountered a person who is a Never Trumper or suffering from various degrees of TDS whom I've been able to have an actual conversation with, let alone convincing them of anything I may bring up. Always adversarial.

This is one of the characteristics of those caught up in this type of mentality; others are a tendency to use sarcasm, negative black-and-white assessments and/or sweeping generalities, loss of objectivity, to mention a few.

Unfortunately, the research techniques of throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks and assessing guilt due any type of association or proximity, really won't cut it in a true academic setting. One item of this type you recently used was the Trump as trickster article laced with Jungian archetype allusions. Good grief.

And true to the form I've described, I doubt very much I'm going to see anything different from you, at least on the Trump issue, despite agreeing with you on many others.
Academic setting? Doesn't that require more than just opinion? Like supporting documentation....

Well if you knew anything about the Tavistock Institute...you would know they created Jungian archetypes....so yeah nature of the beast....literally.

Well if there was evidence to the contrary...you might. Not some stupid speech which he can back peddle on days later...and typically does...
OK, Jason, here's your opportunity. Perhaps you could identify maybe one or two Jungian archetypes the Tavistock Institute created having to do w/Trump. Give good documentation for this if you can and TRY to be succinct. I'm not sure you understand how off-putting it is for someone to try to deal with a mud-against-the-wall approach.