sharing food storage with the unprepared and disobiedient

[NoGreaterLove]

Bella
Thanks, this will be a good opener for my talk tomorrow in sacrament on unity.

[Rosabella]

Bella
Thanks, this will be a good opener for my talk tomorrow in sacrament on unity.

That is so funny. When I was writing the story of the cartoon my husband said "Wow that would make a great opener for a talk in church I'll have to remember that!" Then to hear that you plan to use it....that was amazing. I just felt like I needed to post it. It is something that has stuck with me since I was little. That is so neat it is something you can use!

Thanks for letting me know that!

Bella

[kathyn]

NoGreaterLove:

ella
Thanks, this will be a good opener for my talk tomorrow in sacrament on unity.

Thanks for the great idea. I have to speak in Sac. mtg next week, so I'm going to find a way to share that little story, as well.

[jbalm]

Actually the party is already planned for those of us going to hell. You may still be able to get in on it if you hurry.

Otherwise, it seems pretty obvious that neither will change each others opinions by force (Satan's way?), so may as well not fight about it.

This thread has changed my opinion.

I've decided I will share. But first, whoever wants some food will have to sit through a brief (2-3 hrs.) presentation on how becoming an Amway distributor can change their life.

That'll separate the wheat from the tares.

[Rosabella]

I had not seen the cartoon in 30 years! But I just found it online...it is called Ali Baba Bunny.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7077465182

It is pretty close to my faded memory. It is worth watching

That's all folks!

[will]

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[English Saint]

That's what I believe.

The prepared will be in a very strong position, being independent and self-sufficient, while the unprepared will have to rely on charity from other people and/or government handouts.
Maybe their pride will be hurt when they have to go begging to prepared saints every few days. It could be like Victorian Britain where the poor had to go and ask for parish relief, or even go to the workhouse when they hit rock bottom.

I know I'd rather be independent than have to ask other members for a share of what they have saved over the years.

Were the 5 virgins being mean when they told the other virgins to go and get their own?

[NoGreaterLove]

Will
I agree that food storage is a part of what creates a wise virgin. The root of food storage lies withing obedience to the words of the prophets. This root is what makes a wise virgin, because he recognizes the power of the priesthood as given to man from Christ.
Food storage, tithing, family home evening, scripture study, family unity, temple attendance, partaking of the sacrament, charity, home teaching, etc., are all branches that stem from the root. All are fed by the root. When the root is in good ground, all of the branches will be fed and will bring forth good fruit, which is the Love of God.

[Steve]

The ten virgins was explained in the March Ensign. It totally explained what it meant. It said "spiritual preparedness". It also is about the second coming.

Our food storage is not about the second coming. It is about tribulations and being prepared. For tribulation we need to be prepared to not have fear. Those that are not prepared in all areas will have fear.

We should obey all that the prophets teach and we will be as safe and without fear as possible.

As it has been posted many times including in the March Ensign. The 5 wise virgins could not share because of what oil represents, “the oil of spiritual preparedness can not be shared” pg 49. The vessel described in the March Ensign were containers for extra oil

“Being wise means being prepared for the unexpected, with an extra measure of faith, testimony, and the spirit in our lives.” They never said that oil represented food storage and not to share it.

I feel truly it will be a lesson for all. If you don't have a food storage you are foolish because you were warned.

If you do not share your storage then you fall into being a Foolish virgin for you do not have that measure of extra faith and testimony in God. For if you did you would see the higher law of consecration being more important than holding on to your meager food storage.

The ten virgin are a spiritual parable. Yes one of the ways to bring the Spirit is to have your food storage the other is to give it freely as Christ would. Both will learn a lesson when that day comes.

If you don’t share, sadly you will find yourself a goat in God’s eyes and not a sheep.

If you did not have a storage you may be a goat, but it says in the scriptures if your heart was willing to share and did not have the means you will be judged a sheep.

I would say for everyone do not take the chance either way. Both sides are wrong. There should be no question we should have a food storage and no question that we should share it. If you are on either side be ready for God to cast you with the other goats that thought they were Sheep on God side. They were suprised when they were called Goats.....why....that means they believed in God and thought they followed his rules.....read the earlier post to see who are goats and who are sheep, it is very important to know this.

Many none Christians and very selfish people have a storage for themselves. Do we not think the Gadiantions have a storage, I am sure they do. They are all about selfish gain, that would play a role also, making sure they have everything they need when their plans unfold.

There are plenty of goats that have food storage ready for sustaning only themselves and no others. That does not make them good wise virgins, if they where to shared selflishly that act would be a Christ-like thing to do and that would bring the Spirit to their darkened soul. Which may help them become a wise virgin, but that is just one small step toward it. They still could reject everything else.

I say just get a food storage and be ready to share it and you are covered. Everything else leave to God.

Please read earlier post for scripture references.

[NoGreaterLove]

Steve
Thanks, I agree whole-heartedly.

[p51-mustang]

To all of you that are willing to share your food storage, Can you please send me your addresses so I can send all my disobedient and unprepared neighbors to your house when the time comes? There will be dozens if not hundreds of them. I hope you have enough for all.

[shadow]

It might be a good idea to go to a quiet place and sing hymn #219 Because I Have Been Given Much. Hopefully some will change their tune. (no pun intended)

[ShawnC]

To all of you that are willing to share your food storage, Can you please send me your addresses so I can send all my disobedient and unprepared neighbors to your house when the time comes? There will be dozens if not hundreds of them. I hope you have enough for all.

c/o The Black Jesus
1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington, DC 20500

You're welcome.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

A friend of mine recently suggested that our food storage could be our ticked into the Order of Enoch. We shall see, but I think charity should be our motto.

[Rosabella]

I suggest reading this talk to help all of us to be prepared so that when the time comes we will be ready when asked by the church to live the law of Consecration. For remember what promises we have made in the temple and what the consequences are from turning our back on them. This is important especialy for those that are idle or greedy, as those were the reasons that the United Order failed before. Zion will be built and this time will not fail. So those that cannot abide by the law of consecration in its full form will not be part of Zion.


http://tinyurl.com/atdod3

First Presidency Message
Living the Principles of the Law of Consecration

By President Marion G. Romney
Second Counselor in the First Presidency

Marion G. Romney, “Living the Principles of the Law of Consecration,” Tambuli, Jan 1980, 1

The law of consecration was revealed early in this last dispensation. On the second day of January 1831, through the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Lord said to his infant church, not yet a year old:

“Let every man esteem his brother as himself.

“For what man among you having twelve sons, and is no respecter of them, and they serve him obediently, and he saith unto the one: Be thou clothed in robes and sit thou here; and to the other Be thou clothed in rags and sit thou there—and looketh upon his sons and saith I am just?

“Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.” (D&C 38:25–27)

Thirty-eight days later, 9 February 1831, the Lord revealed the law of consecration as the means by which the inequality between the rich and the poor could be removed. These are his words:

“If thou lovest me thou shalt serve the and keep all my commandments.

“And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support that which thou hast to impart unto them, with a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken.

“And inasmuch as ye impart of your substance unto the poor, ye will do it unto me; and they shall be laid before the bishop of my church and his counselors, two of the elders, or high priests; such as he shall appoint or has appointed and set apart for that purpose.

“And it shall come to pass, that after they are laid before the bishop of my church, and after that he has received these testimonies concerning the consecration of the properties of my church, that they cannot be taken from the church, agreeable to my commandments, every man shall be made accountable unto me, a steward over his own property, or that which he has received by consecration, as much as is sufficient for himself and family.” (D&C 42:29–32)

The basic principle and the justification for the law of consecration “is that everything we have belongs to the Lord; therefore, the Lord may call upon us for any and all of the property which we have, because it belongs to Him … (D&C 104:14–17, 54–57)” (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., in Conference Report, Oct. 1942, p. 55)

The intent of the law of consecration was that every man is to be “equal according to his family, according to his circumstances and his wants and needs.”

(D&C 51:3) Under it, every man, including the poor, was to receive a “ ‘portion’ … such as would make him equal to others according to his circumstances, his family, his wants and needs.

“The land which you received from the bishop by deed, whether it was part of the land which you, yourself, had deeded to the Church, or whether it came as an outright gift from the Church … and the personal property which you received, were all together sometimes called a ‘portion’ (D&C 51:4–6), sometimes a ‘stewardship’ (D&C 104:11–12), and sometimes an ‘inheritance.’ (D&C 83:3)” (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., in Conference Report, Oct. 1942, p. 56)

The Saints in Jackson County, Missouri, organized a “united order” and attempted to live the law of consecration. They failed, however, and were expelled from Missouri.

The Lord explained the reason for their failure and afflictions as follows:

“Verily I say onto you who have assembled yourselves together that you may learn my will concerning the redemption of mine afflicted people—

“Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning the church and not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now.

“But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them;

“And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;

“And Zion cannot be built up unless it is the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself.

“And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffer.

“Therefore, in consequence of the transgressions of my people, it is expedient in me that mine elders should wait for a little season for the redemption of Zion—

“That they themselves may be prepared, and that my people may be taught more perfectly, and have experience, and know more perfectly concerning their duty, and the things which I require at their hands.” (D&C 105:1–6, 9–10)

So ended the first attempt to implement the law of consecration.

In October of 1936, about one hundred years after the termination of the law of consecration experience, the First Presidency of the Church announced the organization of the welfare program.

President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., its principal Planner said concerning the welfare program and the united order:

“We have all said that the Welfare Plan is not the United Order and was not intended to be. However, I should like to suggest to you that perhaps, after all, when the Welfare Plan gets thoroughly into operation … we shall not be so very far from carrying out the great fundamentals of the United Order.

“In the first place I repeat again, the United Order recognized and was built upon the principle of private ownership of property; all that a man had and lived upon under the United Order, was his own. Quite obviously; the fundamental principal of our system today is the ownership of private property.

“In the next place, in lieu of residues and surpluses which were accumulated and built up under the United Order, we, today, have our fast offerings, our Welfare donations, and our tithing, all of which may be used for the care of the poor, as well as for the carrying on of the activities and business of the Church. After all, the United Order was primarily designed to build up a system under which there should be no abjectly poor, and this is the purpose, also, of the Welfare Plan.

“In this connection it should be observed that it is clear from these earlier revelations, as well as from our history, that the Lord had very early to tell the people about the wickedness of idleness, and the wickedness of greed, because the brethren who had plenty were not giving properly, and those who had not were evidently intending to live without work on the things which were to be received from those who had property …

“Furthermore, we had under the United Order a bishop’s storehouse in which were collected the materials from which to supply the needs and the wants of the poor. We have a bishop’s storehouse under the Welfare Plan, used for the same purpose.

“As I have already indicated, the surplus properties which came to the Church under the Law of Consecration, under the United Order, became the ‘common property’ of the Church … and were handled under the United Order for the benefit of the poor. We have now under the Welfare Plan all over the Church, ward land projects. In some cases the lands are owned by the wards, in others they are leased by the wards or lent to them by private individuals. This land is being farmed for the benefit of the poor, by the poor where you can get the poor to work it …

“Thus you will see, brethren, that in many of its great essentials, we have, as the Welfare Plan has now developed, the broad essentials of the United Order. Furthermore, having in mind the assistance which is being given from time to time and in various wards to help set people up in business or in farming, we have a plan which is not essentially unlike that which was in the United Order when the poor were given portions from the common fund.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1942, p. 57–58.)

Considering that we are not now required to live the law of consecration and that we have the welfare program which, as President Clark said, if put “thoroughly into operation … we shall not be … far from carrying out the great fundamentals of the United Order,” I suppose the best way to live the principles of the law of consecration is to live the principles and practices of the welfare program.

These principles and practices include avoiding idleness and greed, contributing liberal fast offerings and other welfare donations, paying a full tithing, and complying with the purpose for which the First Presidency organized the program, which they thus stated:

“Our primary purpose was to set up, in so far as it might be possible, a system under which the curse of idleness would be done away with, the evils of a dole abolished, and independence, industry, thrift and self-respect be once more established amongst our people. The aim of the Church is to help the people to help themselves. Work is to be reenthroned as the ruling principle of the lives of our Church membership.” (In Conference Report, October 1936, p. 3.)

[will]

In the next place, in lieu of residues and surpluses which were accumulated and built up under the United Order, we, today, have our fast offerings, our Welfare donations, and our tithing, all of which may be used for the care of the poor, as well as for the carrying on of the activities and business of the Church. After all, the United Order was primarily designed to build up a system under which there should be no abjectly poor, and this is the purpose, also, of the Welfare Plan.

Where was Food Storage mention as a welfare Plan?,

today, have our fast offerings, our Welfare donations, and our tithing,

[will]

1

[Rosabella]

We do not know how it all will play out. But we do know some things.

1) We have been told again and again to have a food storage so we should obey.

2) We have been told and told about the law of consecration so we should obey.

Both are based on obedience. You can chose not do either one, but it puts you temporally and spiritually at risk in choosing not to do either one.

"The basic principle and the justification for the law of consecration “is that everything we have belongs to the Lord; therefore, the Lord may call upon us for any and all of the property which we have, because it belongs to Him … (D&C 104:14–17, 54–57)” (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., in Conference Report, Oct. 1942, p. 55)"

We have already said yes to this law in the temple have we not? So we can be called upon at anytime to do this. This statement is pretty clear...."any and all of the property which we have" (food storage is our property too.) Just remember the temple….and what we have promised.

Idleness and greed both ended the United Order. So my point was this, both must not exist within the Church. All members must prepare and have food storage we are warned and should obey. If you do not have a storage you can not count on being able to mooch off of someone else’s We do not know exactly what will happen. Even if you have a food storage you can not count on it alone many things could happen to it. It could be destroyed in a fire, flood or stolen. Then what would you do? You would need to turn to fellow members and church that still have storage. To survive you would have to hope that someone one would share with you and not say to you “which of my children should I let starve to feed you?.

We have been told many many times to work on being a Zion people and taught about Unity. Our stake conference was about Unity of the Saints and preparedness. They go hand in hand. We can not do it all alone. We must work together to survive and to build Zion. If we are not willing to work together during an emergency then there is not hope for us to work together in building Zion.

Many unrighteous, selfish, or non-temple-worthy members and non-members have food storages so it in its self is not a ticket into anything or a promise of anything either.

Food storage has been counseled for many reason, not just for the last days. It is counseled for loss of jobs, disasters. It part of being self-reliant but not designed to be an excuse for selfishness. There is a great difference between being self-reliant and selfish. We are counseled to be self reliant and not selfish. Families today are being counseled to use their food storage to live on because of job loss. Are they going to be cast aside as slothful disobedient members by others if they can not build it back up in time? I think not. How is anyone going to prove that they had or did not have what equaled a proper amount of food storage for a year to be judge by other members. This is why I do not see this a some kind of measuring stick to who we should let starve. That is for God to judge why they did not have a storage and only Him to determine their punishment, not us. We have been told to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, etc. for if we do this we are doing this unto Christ if we do not do this then we are not doing it unto Christ. He says his Sheep will do these things but the goats will not. Those goats thought they were sheep, thought they were followers of Him but were not.

(Matthew 25)
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


(Mosiah 4:16–26.)
“Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just.”

18 But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God.

Is it wrong for members not to get a food storage? Yes. Is it wrong to not share it if the Church says to? Yes. Is it right for us to share our food storage even if we are not commanded to by the living Prophet to do so? Yes absolutely for it is the highest law of loving your brother as yourself and we have been told this by Christ and all the Prophets. If for some reason the Living Prophet at the time goes against all others ever…then we must follow what he says. But this has not ever happened. They always peach the same law of Charity.

If you would want someone to help you and your family if you had lost your storage, then you need to be willing to share yours with others. If you do not feel this way then be prepared to be very alone and fending for yourself in all things and find yourself out side of Zion and out side the doors of the Wedding Feast.

I’ve been doing a deep study into this subject in preparation for the last days, studying the scriptures, ensigns, talks by general authorities (including conferences), books by GAs, talking with my own local leaders, and have found nothing that states we are not to share. Rather, I have found thousands of quotes about how we are expected the share with the needy and not judge the reasons why they are needy.

Nevertheless God will take to task those who knowingly procrastinated getting their food storage just as he will with those who selfishly refuse to share. Though in my opinions the latter is far worse. I believe God will be more forgiving of procrastination then lack of Charity. Those that “plan” to depend “steal” from others will also fall under heavy condemnation but that is between them and God and the Church leaders. It is not our business to turn them away unless we are given direct orders to do so. Which we have not been given we have been told to share.

I have shared what has been stated on this site with my leaders and they say those that are preaching not sharing are apostates in the making for they are teaching doctrines opposite of the Church due to there own selfishness fear and justification of it. As it is said “the love of many will wax cold”.

D&C 45: 27
27 And the love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound.

[Rosabella]

Something to ponder on................

Make sure we don’t do what Ananias and Sapphira did when they were voluntarily entering the united order during the time of Christ, they held back part of their wealth. They told the Apostles they had consecrated All their property, but had not and the Apostles knew "by the Spirit" that they held back some money. Peter pointed out to them that it was their property to do with as they pleased, implying that their decision to enter into the United Order was voluntary and not yet bound as we are by a temple covenant. Their sin was in the fact that they intentionally lied to the apostles to gain access to the blessing of the United Order while holding on to their “Golden Parachute”. What is a vital point of the story is that the Lord immediately struck them both dead as punishment. Considering they were not under covenants yet what will happen to members of the Church that lie or hold back their property who ARE under covenant to live the Law of Consecration? “God will not be Mocked.” (Acts 5)


I will stand by the Church and my leaders and will live the Law of Consecration when called to do so, for I have promised to do that, and I will do it with complete joy. In my daily life until that day I will help all those I can that I find in need.

[p51-mustang]

We have also been told to provide for our families brethren. So if all of you really mean what you say here and are willing to watch your children die so you can share your food with the disobedient, why wait. I'm sure you can find someone in your ward who has lost his job and cant make his house payment. Why dont you step up and forego say half of your house payment and give it to him so he can pay some of his house payment? You both will end up losing your homes but hey, you will be blessed and will feel good that you were able to share right? Heck for that matter why not hand all of your money over to the bishop as a fast offering so he can help those in dire straits. You and your children will be homeless and without food or clothing, but the blessings will make up for all that.

If you really believe in all this sharing stuff, there are many suffering right now. You better hurry up and get sharing since so many blessings await you!

We are worse than "infidels" according to Paul if we dont provide for our own. Our job as fathers is to provide for our children. If we have extra then we can share with others. After all isnt this what the law of consecration is about, having enough for our own needs and consecrating any surplus to the needy? It doesnt ask us to turn over 100% of the means of our support and go completely without and starve to death does it?

[Avid Disciple]

Loved your post Bella.

p51-Mustang, your last post was very sarcastic and biting. The tone did not recommend to me anything you said. Are you saying that people who lose their jobs and need financial assistance are disobedient? I am a father, I understand what you are saying, but I believe that the quote about being worse than an infidel refers to those who are not willing to work to provide for their families. I know a man who works hard at two jobs, but struggles in spite of it, in part due to outrageous health costs for his chronically ill wife. I do not regard him as an infidel just because he needs help from the church. I am glad that some of my fast offerings and things I have given him have gone to helping him to make ends meet. Our bishop has told all of us to tighten our belts to help each other, to cut out luxuries and extras in order to be able to help those in need. Our bishop is himself out of work, so he knows how hard it is.

Bella I have seen the kind of loving, selfless member-to-member help you are talking about. It is comforting to see the church gradually becoming more pure and full of loving members as the nasty, mean, unkind ones are getting all caught up in the "divine within" and the "law of attraction" as taught by the new age occult and are choosing to go inactive or remove their membership. I know of several who left the church over Prop 8 in california. They came out in open defiance against the prophet on that count and decided they did not want to be in the church any more. I long to see Zion "put on her beautiful garments" and arise a pure and chosen virgin to meet the bridegroom. Mormonism (restored christianity) is just not a good fit for the selfish. I recommend Luciferianism to them (the new age occult), as it extols selfishness as a virtue.

[Rosabella]

We have also been told to provide for our families brethren. So if all of you really mean what you say here and are willing to watch your children die so you can share your food with the disobedient, why wait. I'm sure you can find someone in your ward who has lost his job and cant make his house payment. Why dont you step up and forego say half of your house payment and give it to him so he can pay some of his house payment? You both will end up losing your homes but hey, you will be blessed and will feel good that you were able to share right?

If you really believe in all this sharing stuff, there are many suffering right now. You better hurry up get sharing since so many blessings await you!

We are worse than "infifels" according to Paul if we dont provide for our own. That commandment trumps the others here IMO.

This quote of "infidels" does not in anyway prove that point. Those that have food for their families and shared are not "infidels" they are taking care of their family, but it is clear when it comes to sharing even with the last of what we have, we have been told to do that. Remember the widow and child that gave the last of their food to the prophet were they not bless by God with bounty? They would have starved if they would have leaned onto the arm of flesh and not given the last of their food to the prophet. God may not have helped them at all if they had not given the last remnants of their food. Did the widow sin the sin of the infidels when she gave the last of her food? No. She was blessed because of her selflessness and Christ like Charity!

Why do you think they are asking for us to give higher fast offerings?

By the way yes, people are giving each other money and food....I know of many many cases of families that are struggling finding a basket on their front porch with food and hundreds of dollars in it. The giver never tells them who it is from. People are babysitting for free to help those that need go to interviews for jobs….all kinds of incredible acts of kindness are coming forth to help each other during this troubled time. So the righteous Saints are already doing these things. It is beautiful to watch as Zion becomes United. What a testimony of the Charity and love of Christ in these beautiful saints.

I must belong to a different Church then some of you. For I am finding the most generous loving people helping each other as I have never seen before. I guess we are starting to see the separation of the Wheat and Tares.

[kathyn]

Charity is the pure love of Christ and it is Christ-like love for others. I believe that the Lord will help us find a way to feed our families and also to share, if we're called upon to do so. The Law of Consecration is sure to be a blessing in our lives if we can live it. Perhaps it is a way for the Lord to reclaim some of his children in their extremity, as well.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

Hey P-51, That is not the spirit of Zion at all. You are going down the wrong road and may want to consider your attitude or you may find you have been climbing the wrong ladder, as President Hinckley used to say.

[will]

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