sharing food storage with the unprepared and disobiedient

[will]

8

[ndjili]

[ndjili]

[Rosabella]

Ndjili

I think what Avid, you, others and I have tried to say is ……Yes be obedient have a food storage, encourage others to also, prepare yourself spiritually for that it’s the most important. When and if the Prophets says share your food storage do it happily. Do not focus on how God will punish unprepared members, do not plan or look forward to their suffering. Let God Judge those that did not prepare. Follow the Prophet in all things and be prepared to share your hard earned food storage if he says so……

I am very confused what it is that we are saying that so is wrong????

[Rosabella]

What more could I say than this....................................

Vaughn J. Featherstone, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Oct. 1976, 31–32

Bishop Vaughn J. Featherstone, second counselor in the Presiding Bishopric In the general conference welfare meeting on Saturday morning, April 3, 1976, I discussed this subject. My exact quote regarding that statement is as follows:

“I should like to address a few remarks to those who ask, ‘Do I share with my neighbors who have not followed the counsel? And what about the nonmembers who do not have a year’s supply? Do we have to share with them?’ No, we don’t have to share—we get to share! Let us not be concerned about silly thoughts of whether we would share or not. Of course we would share! What would Jesus do? I could not possibly eat food and see my neighbors starving. And if you starve after sharing, ‘greater love hath no man than this …’ (John 15:13.)

[buffalo_girl]

This same discussion came up in my husband's Priesthood class last week. The Parable of the 10 Virgins is certainly about 'preparedness'. The interesting point in their discussion was that spiritual preparedness or reserves are impossible to share thus implying that those who have failed to measure up to their 'spiritual' potential when the Bridegroom arrives will not be able to 'borrow' from those who are.

Those who are prepared take their spiritual development seriously enough to DO what the Lord asks them to DO. I CANNOT establish a working relationship with my Creator for YOU or for my children, my husband, my neighbor, or my bishop.

It may well be that the Holy Ghost will reveal to me personally that I share my food storage with a stranger or even an enemy. I pray that I am spiritually prepared to 'hear' the Lord's will and, equally as important, to DO what the Lord calls me to DO now or at any given moment.

When we come closer to 'living' the law of the Celestial Kingdom or when we become a ZION People I 'see' the interrelationship between ourselves functioning more perfectly. The integrated patterns we see as God's laws are manifested in the drift of sand moved either by water or wind, the geometric structure of a flower even as it unfolds, or the ebb and flow of a massive flock of migrating birds tells me that those aspects of His Creation are functioning within celestial law. There are many such evidences of the Creation obeying eternal Laws. I believe that we experience a 'type' of 'living' the higher law in the temple ceremony. The pattern therein shows us of how we can live celestial law in our every day mortal world. NO ONE can experience temple worship without all, and we learn to assist one another. It's very simple, but...

Abraham 4
18 And the Gods watched those things which they had ordered until they obeyed.

25 And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth the beasts after their kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind; and the Gods saw they would obey.

27 So the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.

31 And the Gods said: We will do everything that we have said, and organize them; and behold, they shall be very obedient.

I read that to mean 'the Jury is still out'. He is watching to see if we 'shall be very obedient'.

[Rosabella]

I just find it ironic that a huge painting of the "10 virgins" is hanging in the cannery reception area on welfare square. I have a hard time believing it is by accident nor that it is a strictly spiritual when hanging in a very much temporal facility.

I agree. We are to be obedient in all things both spiritual and temporal. The Ten virgins is a good example, even though them meaning of it is primarily spiritual preparation. I really can not think of a picture that would fit better at a cannery. The Ten Virgins symbolize preparedness, but the highest law of it which is spiritual. If you area doing all that the 5 that are prepared did…..that means you are doing everything you have been told to…which one of the many things is food storage. But to use the Ten Virgins as an excuse not to share is not accurate. For there are many many scriptures and talks that say the opposite then that. They just could not share their spiritual light….only a person can gain on their own. You can not borrow it or share it.

The ten commandments are temporal and spiritual....making your body get up in the morning and go to church is a temporal thing, really listening and learning with the spirit while at church is spiritual.

So yes it is both....we just can not use it to say not to share. I think that is what everyone is saying when they say it is spiritual....at least that is what I mean.

[will]

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[Rosabella]

I found that March Ensign has a very interesting cover, One of the Ten Virgins Preparing her lamp oil, The Cover story is Self Reliance: Spiritual and Physical pp.48-65. What is Self reliance, I am reading it now, I love it!! It includes both aspects of preparedness

Could you please give the year, name of talk and who it is written by Please...so we can look it up online....?

I would love to read it too!

[Rosabella]

I'm not trying to utilize the painting as a reason not to share. Share or not share will depend on the situation that develops and whether or not I'm "in tune" at the time and what the direction given is...

My only thought with that is like in the parable...maybe we won't be able to share...

I know and have met many that think the church will bail them out or they'll get a gun and go get some from their neighbors...one of the sales guys at Get Some in Murray mentioned to me that he didn't have his food storage but told his Elder's Quorum one Sunday that he had a gun and knew where to get it...

Just a thought though. I have no idea on how everything will roll out. I have some economic perspectives and some economic guesses on demise of the system but....no knowledge!

I agree with you completely...

I just have not agreed with post that say they won't share because it is God's cleansing. I have never disagreed with you points. I think your position is soild and have no issues. So please don't think I was saying you believed that. I agree we must prepared spiritual and temporaly. I feel those that say they will not share are as bad as the ones that say they know where to get it....or I will just expect other to give to me...both are selfish. That is all I really am saying. I agree it means both, I have just heard the 10 virgins use as the excuse not to give.....That did not come from you that is just what I have heard over the years

[Rosabella]

Ditto!

I hear you, no matter what we live in hard times, and will face hardships we can not imagine. It is hard to know how you really handle something till you are in it. I pray for the same, to be close to the Spirit and choose the right.

[will]

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[kathyn]

It is hard to know how you really handle something till you are in it. I pray for the same, to be close to the Spirit and choose the right.

Bella, you may have hit upon the key----if we decide before the situation arises, we may be able to make the better choice. It's kind of like deciding when you were younger that you were never going to take a drink. If you already know what you would do in a situation, it can help you to know what you need to do when/if the time comes. Of course, we can't really imagine how it will really be, but I think we can think about various likely scenarios to help us to prepare ourselves.

[kathyn]

She got the Ensign Today Feb 9th

I hope I get mine tomorrow, then! Do you think there's a reason the March issue is out so early? I have my thoughts. (And they include Obama and the stimulus package.)

[will]

3

[Rosabella]

It is hard to know how you really handle something till you are in it. I pray for the same, to be close to the Spirit and choose the right.

Bella, you may have hit upon the key----if we decide before the situation arises, we may be able to make the better choice. It's kind of like deciding when you were younger that you were never going to take a drink. If you already know what you would do in a situation, it can help you to know what you need to do when/if the time comes. Of course, we can't really imagine how it will really be, but I think we can think about various likely scenarios to help us to prepare ourselves.

You are right, we can make the decision now on certain things and stand strong for them. There are things that catch us off guard, those me must make sure we have the Spirit and have make the decision to follow the prophet and do in all things what Christ would do.

For me the key is to be ready to do whatever the Prophet asks faithfully with no reservations. For me, I have already consecrated my life which includes any and all my things. I also am willing to take anyone in that is in need, orphaned or abandoned children, families that need a place to lay their head. I will make room in my home and share what limited means I have.

I have seen the other side very clearly so I know what I am choosing, it is not a theory for me. For me there is only one path. There is no path I can just go on myself for that path is Lucifer’s, they only other path is to follow the Prophet. If must grow, change to fit His way I will, for it is the only path I will take. Even unto death. I have seen the gates of hell and I fear not, for the Lord my God is with me. I will follow Him and have no fear.

[kathyn]

I also am willing to take anyone in that is in need, orphaned or abandoned children, families that need a place to lay their head. I will make room in my home and share what limited means I have.

Bella, in my view, that is what the Saints in the Rocky Mountains will be asked to do and that will be a trial for some, in and of itself. I suppose it will be that way, also, wherever there are LDS refuges set up.
That should be reason enough for us to lay in extra supplies. Imagine seeing children going hungry because we didn't care enough to do what the prophets have asked of us!

My fear has been for my family, especially the grandchildren. But I can't bear to see other children suffer.
You have the Christ-like attitude because you've already consecrated yourself and goods for the benefit of others.

[NoGreaterLove]

It has been prophesied:

The day will be, and it will not be many years either: it will be about the time the United States want to send a sufficient force here. About the time they will get unto the hottest times will be about that time. They will persecute us all the time the same as Joseph's brethren did Joseph in Egypt. They whipped him and threw him into a pit, and then they thought of killing him; but Judah prevailed and saved him, and then they took him and sold him as a slave, and he obtained favour in the eyes of the King, and finally held dominion over that whole kingdom, and reared the kingdom, and raised grain previous to the famine, and saved and redeemed his whole father's house and millions of others; and everything had to bow down to the power of Joseph.

J184As true as that thing is true, so true it will be that our enemies will have to bow down to us; and we may do the best we can to store up stores; and it is all we can do before they will come bending unto us. And the President of the United States will bow to us and come to consult the authorities of this Church to know what he had best to do for his people.

J184You don't believe this. Wait and see; and just about the time they think they have got us, the Lord has got them fast. Now mark it, George; you may write every word of it.


(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 5: 93.)

(JST Genesis 41:47.)

47 And in the seven plenteous years the earth brought forth by handfuls.

48 And he gathered up all the food of the seven years, which were in the land of Egypt, and laid up the food in the cities; the food of the field, which was round about every city, laid he up in the same.

49 And Joseph gathered corn as the sand of the sea, very much, until he lift numbering; for it was without number.

(JST Genesis 41:54.)

54 And the seven years of dearth began to come, according as Joseph had said; and the dearth was in all lands; but in all the land of Egypt there was bread.

55 And when all the land of Egypt was famished, the people cried to Pharaoh for bread; and Pharaoh said unto all the Egyptians, Go unto Joseph; what he saith to you, do.

56 And the famine was over all the face of the earth; and Joseph opened all the storehouses, and sold unto the Egyptians; and the famine waxed sore in the land of Egypt.

57 And all the countries came into Egypt to Joseph for to buy corn; because that the famine was so sore in all lands

[Avid Disciple]

I have been reading through this thread and considering some of the past posts. I pondered afresh the issue of preparation, spiritual and temporal and how and if the Lord might purge the church. I also heave read our new March Ensign about the parable of the virgins and have prayed about this and considered numerous scriptures that address these issues. These are some of my thoughts.

Regarding those that have hatred and anger and selfishly refused to share, even threatening to kill anyone who begs at their door. In the past God has suffered the selfish to live, even when their selfishness caused the downfall of Zion (Independence Missouri). He led them through a wilderness, just as he did the rebellious of ancient Israel in order that they might repent and be saved in spite of their former wickedness.

But we are now nearing rapidly the last days. God has sworn that Zion will be redeemed before Christ comes. This will happen even if he must destroy the hard-hearted and unrepentant members of the church. There are numerous ways in which members of the church can be disobedient, but I have to consider what Jesus taught when he said that the first commandment was to Love God and second was to love our fellow man, in other words, the greatest virtue is charity. I have to conclude from this that failure to have charity is far worse in God’s eyes than failure to heed a prophet’s council to have a food storage. I have one, so I am not saying this to justify any negligence of my own.

Those who have said God will purge the church of the unrighteous are right. He will. But they may be dismayed about whom he will purge first. It may come to pass that those who so proudly and selfishly hoard their oh-so-precious food storage and threaten to turn away any who come begging, may find that they will not need it, as they may be struck down by a plague or some other God-sent disaster and their food storage which they were unwilling to consecrate to God will be consecrated anyway to the remaining church members, because God WILL feed his flock, even if he has to destroy a selfish miser in order to do it. There is no way that a selfish uncharitable soul will be allowed to be a citizen of Zion. The church will be cleansed of proud and selfish people, either by them repenting, or by them willfully apostatizing or being destroyed.

Another possible scenario is this. Joe Selfish takes his family and his oh-so-precious food storage which he values above the law of charity and holes up in a mountain cabin. A year later he and his family have run completely out of food and no one will share with him, because the rest of the saints have all gone to Zion and are living the united order. God refuses to help him any other way, because of his former selfishness. He and his family starve because they trusted in their own arm of flesh, while the faithful saints of Zion are being fed with the oil of sharing and when their storages are depleted, the Lord sends down manna from heaven as he has done in other dispensations.

Remember there are some blessings that the Lord will only grant his people when they are a united Zion. Individuals and families, notwithstanding other measures of their righteousness, who refuse the law of Zion, which is to be one, to own all things in common, cannot be given those blessings.

I reflected on the parable of the ten virgins and then remembered another parable from Luke 14.

16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

I believe those bidden to the supper are the members of the true church. Many of them refused to come and share which symbolizes their refusal to have charity or keep other commandments. The host (the Lord) swears in his wrath that they will never taste of his supper, but goes out and calls in people from the wide world. Here is the interpretation that I felt impressed with. Many who are currently members of the church, but who do not really love the Lord or their fellow men will fall away as the wheat and tares are separated in the near future. The Lord has sworn that Zion will be peopled and so he will go out and when the church stands pure, cleansed and undefiled, he will bring in the faithful of every other Christian denomination and even non-christian faiths (the god-fearing, selfless seekers of refuge from the storms of the last days) and will bring them with songs into Zion. Many who thought they were first will be last and many who knew not the restoration and even who knew not Christ, will stand in their place and be fed with bread and wine at the table of the Lamb.

I am very glad that I found the church in my college years. If I had come across the kind of hateful statements that I have seen made on this site by some church members who are supposed to be brethren in the Lord, I would never join this church. I would not even allow myself to consider any merits that it might have or any truth that its doctrine might contain, because of the poor example of its members. Those who by their examples of Luciferic hatred and lack of charity cause innocent seekers of truth (spiritual babes) to stumble, it would be better for them never to have been born. Indeed it would be better to have a millstone hung about their necks and be sunk into the depths of the sea.

What redeems this site and the discussion threads here are the posts by those who clearly reflect the countenance of Christ in their kind, charitable and loving words. I have been impressed with the words of those who express not only their willingness to share their storage, but their desire to do so and are preparing to do so by storing extra food and supplies beyond their own needs. It is not a burden to share, but a blessing. And doing so brings blessings, even unforeseen and unexpected blessings.

I guarantee this, those who have charity and are willing to share their storage will not perish, except by the Lord’s will, while those who selfishly refuse to share will not live unless they repent. What happens to those who have not prepared a storage, that depends largely on their reasons. Some have wanted to, even yearned to, but have procrastinated because they were overwhelmed by life’s troubles. Some had storages, but unemployment or illness forced them to use them up. Some are grasshoppers who know they aren’t preparing and have imagined in their minds that they will just sponge off the general weal or even take food at gunpoint. Only the last group are those that I would fear for. Indeed, they may very well be purged from the church, though God may choose in some cases to let them experience hunger and privation until they truly repent of their premeditated stealing and will then allow them to be shown mercy. However those who have no mercy and premeditate turning the needy away will scarcely escape the wrath of God, unless they also come down into the depths of repentance and beg forgiveness for their uncharitable hearts.

This problem of some premeditating become mooches and others premeditating becoming misers will be a great test and shakeout in the church. Both are worthy of destruction, unless they repent. Both the miser and the mooch are the same - selfish and full of pride. Frankly they deserve one another. Those that are humble and selfless will make every attempt to have a storage, though some may just be starting now and may not have time get a full year together (ie. new members, college students, those who used up their storage and are trying to replenish it.) They will also be willing to share what they have with others, regardless of the reasons why those others are unprepared. They are willing to live the law of consecration as they had covenanted to do in the temple. The mooch cannot live the law of consecration because he has nothing to consecrate and the miser can't live it because he is unwilling.

Perhaps this is what will happen. A moocher will come with his gun to get food from the home a member, not realizing that that member is a miser, also with a gun. They will have their shootout leaving both dead, and the surviving church members will find themselves relieved of two selfish and burdensome people, not to mention suddenly in possession of a great unexpected bounty of food storage, which they proceed to use to help feed some god-fearing, selfless, but needy families in their community who have already used up their food storage because they shared it and been praying for a blessing of mercy during the present famine. God sure answers prayers in mysterious ways.

[will]

4.

[Rosabella]

Will is this what you are saying?

1) Be Obedient and have a 1 year storage you have been warned to have it. Promises and blessings come from obeying.
2) Share happily if ask by the Prophet. Do it the way he says to do it. Promises and blessings come from obeying

3) If you don’t have a 1 year storage you put yourself at risk. You have not obeyed therefore there is no covenant between you and the Lord. So there may be no blessing of safety for you and possibility a punishment. So don't take the chance.

4) If you don’t not share when you are told to do so you are being disobedient. Therefore there is not blessing of safety and possibility a punishment. So don't take the chance


For me, If I am not told I will assume I am to share, for that was Chirsts example.

[will]

For me, If I am not told I will assume I am to share, for that was Chirsts example

.

yea, thats pretty much it. Except I believe something that has taken so much effort, we will guided what to do when the time comes. I believe it serves a purpose one which I might not even know. If I am wrong, I'm OK with that to. I am so Glad we have a Prophet to follow.

[Rosabella]

For me, If I am not told I will assume I am to share, for that was Chirsts example

.

yea, thats pretty much it.

Cool deal. That is what I have been thinking you were meaning. We just say it different

Most my post were in resonse to the post that plan to have a gun and shot to kill anyone that comes asking for food.....that is where I feel they have gone over the deep end. They are just as bad as the one coming to your house with a gun to get the food. Both need to re-think and repent.

If I missed anything let me know, I have really just wanted to understand where you were coming from.

It did not seem like you were on the side of kill to keep your food storage no matter what. The.." Don't come a knocking or I will be a cocking.....and bang game over." kinda guy. You seemed reasonable and I should say saine LOL

For me I just say what would Christ do.....

[kathyn]

Avid Disciple, Will and Bella. I am with you. I like the saying "we don't have to share. We get to share."
I truly believe this will be one of the greatest tests of the last days and will surely assist in the separation of the tares from among the wheat.

We are all in this together and none of us will survive if not for brotherly love and obedience. The Law of Consecration is a true principle and not just something we may be asked to do. Otherwise, the Survivalists would be the only ones left and I don't for one minute believe this is what the Lord intends.

I do believe it will go like this: First, we'll be asked to increase our offerings. Then we'll be asked to donate to and help specific families in our wards. Then we'll be asked to take others into our household and care for them. Then we may need to combine our stores at our wardhouses so that all can share. Then the real Law of Consecration begins and that's the only way we'll be able to make it. And that's when we can stand still and see power of the Lord.

If we can be of the mindset that everything is the Lord's in the first place and all he's asked is a tenth part , then it gets easier to see the material things as His and we are merely stewards. And we want to do what He asks of us.

[will]

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