sharing food storage with the unprepared and disobiedient

[will]

2

[Jenny]

I understand that some may not have the means to prepare, I was one of those but the lord helped me to do so. I really don't believe we have an excuse. Bishops also can help those who have a desire to do so. President Packerd Said "with all thy getting get going". For some It will be a choice to live and obey or disobey and die. I feel the only ones that will be angered at this will be the disobiedent and the unprepared. If you did not take the time to prepare that is a choice you have made.[/quote]

The disobedient will always be angry. My guess is that when and if we each get the opportunity to choose to share or not share we will be know what is asked of us. Didn't the Savior say it's better for a man to loose his life that he may gain it eternally? If we are asked to save another that is a very serious choice not to be taken lightly. Let me ask you this how will you know if a person didn't prepare, couldn't prepare, or had no knowledge to prepare and could be a wonderful person or not? I think of mother Teresa and how she never asked those questions she just helped all she could help. I was thinking just today about all of the people I know who are now old and gray who prepared and stored food for years and years. They are ready to die, some already have. What did their obedience bring to them? A fat belly and a way to keep something from their neighbor? I think that the obedience itself is one of the most saving factors. Obedience to Heavenly Father's law and instruction is what will save us beyond all temporal blessing and means we can accumulate.

[will]

30

[Jenny]

Obedience is the most important thing when it comes to this principle.

[jbalm]

Just find out all the things your neighbors won't eat, then store lots of that.

[Bridgey]

Sharing can cause any number of situations

If you share during these times when men's hearts have waxed cold, what's to say they just won't kill you and take the lot? How do you secure what you have against people who don't want to share or have just a little of what you got. We're in a world where people are selfish and feel entitled to Govt. handouts, envy the things of others, etc.

or like someone said, you might also run out and all die vs only them dying.

or it might be like in the bible when the widow gave the last of what she had to the prophet and the container kept refilling itself (if we had the faith, could this not also happen). I believe this would only happen with other faithful members.

One idea i came across. Never throw away food that has gone old or expired, or weavels in it. When the times come. Hide your good food. If your ransacked, bullied into giving food, etc make sure they find the crappy old food or let them have it. Just pretend it is all you got and beg them to leave some for you. Or if you do want to share, give that to them. Won't taste nice, but will keep them alive.

[ChelC]

I've never had to starve, so I can't say how selfish I might become when my children look at me with empty bellies. For now, with a full stomach, I believe I would share. I've been the disobedient one. I also realize that while I have finally come around, I am still disobedient in other areas that some people may be better at. I hope that we can come together and I think I would rather starve with my neighbors than watch others suffer outside my door. Like I said, I have a full belly though, and healthy kids. I think I could handle my own starvation, but I don't think I could handle my children's.

[Badcompany]

Will, You have hit the nail on the head. King Benjamin was talking about how socities should work. He wasn't talking about what we are about to be called through. This talk of sharing is what I call good time talk. When there is penty it is an easy thing to say what you would do. In reality just like Katirna you see what human nature is really like. The purpose of that which is coming is to weed the garden. Myself I won't flustrate God's plan to to weed the garden. The same spirit that told you to store food in that day will tell you who to save and who not to save. This is hard doctrine but true. Hang in there Will, you make more sense than you know.

[p51-mustang]

Badcompany,

I understand you have a tiller perfect for weeding in the form of a 50 Caliber rifle?

[n8-r]

I will be over willing to share and I will offer several choices. On the menu will be the classic .22LR, savory 0.40 S&W, robust 12 gauge, and the crowd favorite 5.56 NATO. Take your pick. You can come to my house for lunch

[scottja]

Don't forget the story about Joseph and Egypt. 7 years of plenty followed by 7 years of famine.
They stored up during the first 7 years...The next few years go something like this...
Joseph sold, yes sold, food - note that he did not give it away. There was a trade of
something of value in return for something of value. This is consistent with the LORDS program.
After the money supply was gone the people traded their livestock for food.
Then after the livestock they traded their lands for food. Then after their lands
they indentured themselves as servants for food.
Then Joseph taxed the people a percentage of the grain, and told them to reserving seeds
for he next year.
Whenever quorum members say that they will come to my home for food, I tell them to plan on
bringing work gloves and a shovel/hoe and we will find something for them to do
to trade for food.

[Chip]

What seems plausible to me is that there could be a pandemic in which only those with adequate means to self-quarantine are able to survive. Maybe the issue of sharing won't even come up. Certainly, prospect of disobedient mobs coming after your stock is a losing situation, and seems to undermine the whole effort of preparation.

[gruden]

This is a good thread - I've done a lot of thinking along these lines.

My EQ prez said that exact same thing to me - he'll come over to my house. He's supposed to be my leader!

The guy in charge of the storehouse said that we are supposed to share. That counsel is coming from above. Get used to that idea right now.

Here's a thought: what kind of people form a Zion society? Who will the Lord pick to start Zion in Missouri? Will he pick people who shot their hungry neighbors or those who willingly gave? Something to ask yourself.

What I feel - and this is only me so meditate on it yourself - is that our food storage will get us through the initial shock. Then we will be called to gather together in places of refuge. If possible (if we obey quickly and leave early) we'll bring at least some of that with us to pool (ie. to share) with those gathered. I'm sure the Church has more squirreled away in preparation as well. People worried about ravenous masses stealing their food may find that's the least of our concerns.

Our concern is us. That is, what kind of people we are. The people who are ready to be Zion people aren't going to have to deal with gangs looking to plunder their precious supplies. I feel very sure of that.

Help your neighbors and when you're called to go, go.

I do believe that being obedient (which is what food storage is about - hearkening to the counsel of prophets) and saving as much food as you reasonably can will be a dividing line. The people who didn't listen will suffer - I'm sure of that. If we can forgive them (is that up to us?) and help them out, speaks very well of us. This is one way we can be saviors on Mount Zion - saving the lives of people who come to us for help. How glorious would that be?

[naturelovertoo]

Brother Joseph made me think of one thing this morning when he was talking, that we are the very characters that will have to save the poor curses that are trying to kill us. They are trying to destroy that Priesthood that pertains to them as much as it does to me. We have got to save them and they have got to come to us. It is degrading to their feelings; but, as degrading as it is, they will come bending to us. What! to brother H. C. Kimball? Yes, as true as the sun shines, if I live my religion; and you will have to bow to me, brother Brigham, and Joseph Smith, and the Twelve Apostles, and thousands and millions of others; for I will tell you, if you make war while you are in the flesh with the servants of God, you never can be redeemed until you make an atonement to satisfy us, and then Joseph, and Peter, and Jesus, and to satisfy the Father: you have offended the whole of them.

J184The day will be, and it will not be many years either: it will be about the time the United States want to send a sufficient force here. About the time they will get unto the hottest times will be about that time. They will persecute us all the time the same as Joseph's brethren did Joseph in Egypt. They whipped him and threw him into a pit, and then they thought of killing him; but Judah prevailed and saved him, and then they took him and sold him as a slave, and he obtained favour in the eyes of the King, and finally held dominion over that whole kingdom, and reared the kingdom, and raised grain previous to the famine, and saved and redeemed his whole father's house and millions of others; and everything had to bow down to the power of Joseph.

J184As true as that thing is true, so true it will be that our enemies will have to bow down to us; and we may do the best we can to store up stores; and it is all we can do before they will come bending unto us. And the President of the United States will bow to us and come to consult the authorities of this Church to know what he had best to do for his people.

J184You don't believe this. Wait and see; and just about the time they think they have got us, the Lord has got them fast. Now mark it, George; you may write every word of it.

J184I will tell you that brother Brigham and his brethren can tell the difference between the wheat and the chaff. [Voice: "The Lord gives wheat and the Devil gives chaff.] Retain all the wheat; and if there is any chaff there, give it to the Devils and the wheat, and the oat, and the barley you shall have; and the day is at hand for you to go to work to raise sheep and raise flax, and there shall be a coat on it four times thicker than any flax you ever saw, and everything else shall increase.

J184Why do you ask God to give you these things until you go to work and raise them? I sowed wheat three years before I got a bit. The Devil or somebody tried to prove me; but I would have stuck to it until this day. I would not give a dime for a man or woman that is not of that character.

J184Am I going to be a Joseph? I will be a Heber, and Brigham will be a Brigham, and he will lay up stores for the inhabitants of the earth, and we will redeem the earth and the inhabitants thereof,—I care not whether they are dead or alive; and I would rather have a lot of dead creatures than many that profess to be Saints here. If they were dead and out of the way, their absence would be a help to us; for they try to hinder the progress of the work of God: but we will be the saviours of the children of men in the last days.

J184Mark my words, and see if these things do not come to pass quicker than you can prepare yourselves for them.

J184Will this land be a land of milk and honey? Yes. Missouri is cracked up to be the greatest honey country that there is on the earth; but it will not be many years before they cannot raise a spoonful in that land, nor in Illinois, nor in any other land where they fight against God. Mildew shall come upon their honey, their bees, and their crops; and famine and desolation shall come upon the nation like a whirlwind.

J184Go and read the Prophets: they all say so. You never saw a Prophet in your life but what would say so. Don't be frightened: I tell you it will come. I am willing that my friends that have come through here from California should tell them of it; and it would be better for you to believe it yourselves, and go and make calculations accordingly.

J184Shall we ever be brought to want? I tell you, if we live our religion, we never shall. Cannot God Almighty send manna here, honey, and everything else, just as well as he could in the days of Moses? This is the last dispensation, and it has got all the power, the interest, the miracles that were in all of them, and tenfold more.

J184Last year or the year before they made some thousands of pounds of sugar at Provo and other places from the honey-dew. Where did they find it? On the leaves of the cottonwood, the quaking asp, and the milk-weed. They are now making honey from milk-weed.

J184What does all this mean? And then don't you believe God can rain sweetening as well as running water? This I can prove by thousands of witnesses—good sugar, as handsome as I ever made in the United States; and I have made hundreds of tons of it. The maple-trees in the States will be blasted; yes, and they might as well try to make sugar from an oak tree: and everything else will be mildewed and go to destruction, when we shall have thousands.


(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 5: 93.)

[naturelovertoo]

Orson Pratt said that at this time other governments would br crumbling, and gave this description of the coming of Gentile peoples to the West from foreign lands:]*

"The following stream is one that runs continually; and the Gentiles will, in that day, come to us as a following stream, and we shall have to set our gates open continually, they will come as clouds and as doves in large flocks. Do you suppose that the Gentiles are going to be ignorant of what is taking place? 'Now this will not be the case, they will perfectly understand what is taking place.' The people will see that the hand of God is over this people; they will see that He is in our midst, and that He is our watch-tower, that He is our shield and our defense, and therefore, they will say, 'Let us go up and put our riches in Zion, for there is no safety in our own nations.' Those nations are trembling and tottering and will eventually crumble to ruin, and those men of wealth will come here, not to be baptized, but many of them will come that have never heard the servants of God; but they will hear that peace and health dwell among us, and that our officers are all peace officers, and our tax-gatherers men of righteousness."

[George Q. Cannon also raised his voice to explain that when strife came, men would have to "flee to the Mormons" for safety:]*

"I expect to see the day when the Latter-day Saints will be the people TO MAINTAIN CONSTITUTIONAL GOVERNMENT on this land. Men everywhere should know that WE BELIEVE IN CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLES, and that we expect that it will be our destiny to maintain them. That the prediction will be fulfilled that was made forty-four years ago the seventh of las March, wherein God said to Joseph Smith - 'Ye hear of wars in foreign lands; but behold I say unto you, they are nigh, even at your doors, and not many years hence ye shall hear of wars in your lands;' but the revelation goes on to say that the day will come among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor, must needs flee unto Zion for safety. A portion of that revelation has been fulfilled, the remainder will be. The causes are in operation to bring it about. We are not alone in the thought that the republic is drifting steadily in that direction; that we are leaving the old constitutional landmarks, and that the time is not far distant when there will be trouble in consequence of it, when there will be civil broils and strife; and to escape them, we believe, men will be compelled to flee to the 'Mormons,' despised as they are now."

[The Prophet Joseph, while telling of the influx of the Gentiles to the western communities during the internal wars, warned:]*

"You will be so numerous that you will be in danger of famine, but not for the want of seed time and harvest, but because of so many to be fed. Many will come with bundles under their arms to escape the calamities, and there will be no escape except by fleeing to Zion."

[Heber C. Kimball warned that:]*

"The day will come that you (strangers) will have to come to us for bread to eat; and we will be your saviours here upon Mount Zion. You don't believe it now; but wait a little while, and you will see that it will come to pass."

[DOZ]

This is my answer to that very important question...share or not share??

Sharing Our Food Supply

In April conference of 1976, Elder Vaughn J. Featherstone also talked about sharing our food supply with our neighbors.

I should like to address a few remarks to those who ask, “Do I share with my neighbors who have not followed the counsel? And what about the nonmembers who do not have a year's supply? Do we have to share with them?” No, we don't have to share—we get to share! Let us not be concerned about silly thoughts of whether we would share or not. Of course we would share! What would Jesus do? I could not possibly eat food and see my neighbors starving. And if you starve to death after sharing, “greater love hath no man than this …” (John 15:13.)

Now what about those who would plunder and break in and take that which we have stored for our families' needs? Don't give this one more idle thought. There is a God in heaven whom we have obeyed. Do you suppose he would abandon those who have kept his commandments? He said, “If ye are prepared, ye need not fear.” (D&C 38:30.) Prepare, O men of Zion , and fear not. Let Zion put on her beautiful garments. Let us put on the full armor of God. Let us be pure in heart, love mercy, be just, and stand in holy places. Commit to have a year's supply of food by April 1977. 5

[gruden]

Now what about those who would plunder and break in and take that which we have stored for our families' needs? Don't give this one more idle thought. There is a God in heaven whom we have obeyed. Do you suppose he would abandon those who have kept his commandments? He said, “If ye are prepared, ye need not fear.” (D&C 38:30.) Prepare, O men of Zion , and fear not. Let Zion put on her beautiful garments. Let us put on the full armor of God. Let us be pure in heart, love mercy, be just, and stand in holy places. Commit to have a year's supply of food by April 1977. 5

Thank-you for posting that quote. That's exactly what I was looking for.

[naturelovertoo]

Perfect quote DOZ!

[will]

Sharing Our Food Supply

In April conference of 1976, Elder Vaughn J. Featherstone also

talked about sharing our food supply with our neighbors.

I should like to address a few remarks to those who ask, “Do I share with my neighbors who have not followed the counsel? And what about the nonmembers who do not have a year's supply? Do we have to share with them?” No, we don't have to share—we get to share! Let us not be concerned about silly thoughts of whether we would share or not. Of course we would share! What would Jesus do? I could not possibly eat food and see my neighbors starving. And if you starve to death after sharing, “greater love hath no man than this …” (John 15:13.)

[*]



I like the quote however for those who choose not to prepare do not let this be your excuse, The Church teaches self reliance and how we should be prepared. Sharing our food with those that need it is a worthy cause however to have the attitude that we do not need to prepare because we will share with those that have "I will just share when the time comes" that attitude is likened unto the foolish virgins who got locked out. Do you really want to be the moocher who could have prepared but didn't because you thought it would be o.k. to mooch? When the time comes I do not want to look at my wife and children and say " I am sure we can eat tommorrow or don't worry I will just go borrow from Brother dogooder I'm sure he will feed us." The point is
= be prepared be self reliant. If you do not choose to prepare then do not be surprised if you don't eat. that is not a risk you should take. However if you choose to be unprepared will you eat? Who knows. Good luck to you for disobeying.

[Badcompany]

Let me start with, a Prophet Seer and Revelator told us to get a years suppy of food, fuel where possible and clothing. Vaughn J. Featherstone does not hold the title Prophet, Seer and Revelator. That means what he says is interesting. No more than that. He cannot override the counsel from a Prophet. Not no way, not no how. It isn't in out Father's plan. All this talk about sharing with the unprepared and disobiedient is what I call good time talk. No more no less. It all sounds so wonderful but has a few problems for me. Which of your family member are you going to send to Vaughn house because you have decided to take another unprepared and disobiedient person in? They have chosen to be unprepared and disobiedient. That was their choice. The war in Heaven started over agency and it continues over agency. This principal is driven by agency. There was a plan in Heaven to save everyone. That plan was rejected outright and another was decide on. Some would be lost but their agency was protected. They would not be able to say they didn't have a chance or a choice. What other gospel principal are they choosing not to obey so that some other obediant member can cover for them? Tithing, Home Teaching or keeping a journal? A prophet told us to store a years supply of food, only a prophet can tell us to give it up. Not a Stake President, Not a Bishop and not a EQP. Stay with the prophets. Only they have a promise. Not some underling. It is not in our Fathers plan. He has a plan to weed the garden. Will you flustrate his plan to do that? What do you think is ment by the scripture that says,he will cleanse the inward vessle so that he might better cleanse the outward? What on Earth do you think he is talking about. How do you interperet this scripture? Is it lawful for the unprepared and disobiedient to command the obediant? Satan said he would save all of our Father's children. He was wrong then and all this talk is wrong now. If it isn't then let's start a fund to pay the tithing of the unprepared and disobiedient. Find out who isn't doing their home teach and start doing it. Maybe our Father in Heaven will see this great work and spank the unprepared and disobiedient and verily save them in the Kingdom of Heaven. So send me all your address so I can send all who show up at my door and then you may be ready to receive them. I also have stored for them. I have stored Food and Ammunition. What do youthink I will be handing out. COme close be near unto me ye unprepared and disobiedient. Nephi sent many of his brethern unprepared to meet their maker. Interesting wording. They were unprepared. He sent them anyway.

[will]

10

[gruden]

Let me start with, a Prophet Seer and Revelator told us to get a years suppy of food, fuel where possible and clothing. Vaughn J. Featherstone does not hold the title Prophet, Seer and Revelator. That means what he says is interesting. No more than that. He cannot override the counsel from a Prophet. Not no way, not no how. It isn't in out Father's plan. All this talk about sharing with the unprepared and disobiedient is what I call good time talk. No more no less.

In speaking with the brother that runs the local storehouse, he says be prepared to share, and that comes straight from the top. Anything else is rationalizing.

That being said, if you accept what people have said has been shown to them about the call out, the people who didn't listen and prepare will suffer. If there's a pandemic, they will suffer.

In any case, the story of the Prodigal Son might be worth another look...

Or, for that matter, Elijah and the Widow.

[naturelovertoo]

Following the Lord means following your the line of the Priesthood Authority all the way from Christ down to the father in the home. This includes Stake Presidents, Bishops and Elders Quorum Presidents.
This is the order established by God himself and if we are to make it through the times that are ahead, we will need to abide by the counsel of ALL of these leaders who are chosen of God.
Thanks for the scripture about the begger. It is perfect as an answer to the post above. Hopefully this will educate this person on Gods plan.
If we pay close attention to the pamplet put out by the Chruch concerning food storage, we will see we are to assist the Bishop in his needs to help the ward.

[abbykay13]

It would be hard to shoot someone who's begging for food. My own brother and sister and their kids I'd have to feed. It's frustrating when they have been taught the same things and haven't prepared, but I can't just let them starve.

It might be so bad that we won't want to live anyway, we can share with others and die doing the right thing. I'm getting a little nervous right now, even though I feel I'm close to being prepared.

[zion or bust]

So often we focus strickly on the physical preparation and forget where the Lord is trying to take us -- to establish Zion both in our hearts and geographically. What prevented the Saints from establishing Zion in the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith? You can look at D&C 101 & 105 to find the answers. But for our purposes here, I really like D&C 105:3-5 which says, "But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil (hopefully most of us are fairly obedient and are not full of evil but the next part really relates to our subject here), and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them; And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom; And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself." That is really where the Lord wants to take us. And I think that if we are preoccupied with thinking "well, I was obedient and got my food storage and they weren't obedient and didn't get theirs and so I am not going to share," then I don't think we are quite where the Lord wants us. We probably all have some repenting to do in this area.

I also like what the Lord says in D&C 104:13-18. A key principle to remember is that everything on this earth (including us) belongs to the Lord. The Lord wants his church to become very great but he also want it to become sanctified (see D&C 105:31-32). And I think that a lot of the sanctification will come about through the future trials because IMO we as a church are not where the Lord want us. A key scripture that helps us understand why the Lord will give us these future trials is found in Alma 32:13 which says, "And now, because ye are compelled to be humble blessed are ye; for a man sometimes, if he is compelled to be humble, seeketh repentance; and now surely, whosoever repenteth shall find mercy; ad he that findeth mercy and endureth to the end the same shall be saved." (emphasis added) (cf Hel. 12:1-3.) So we see that the Lord really is going to use whatever methods he can to bring us to him and give us salvation. But, of course, it is better on an individual basis if we don't have to be compelled to be humble (see Alma 32:16). But the Lord has many methods to bring us to him (see also D&C 43:20-25) and establish Zion which is where our ultimate focus should be.

Joseph Smith said, "We ought to have the building up of Zion as our greatest object.... The time is soon coming, when no man will have any peace but in Zion and he stakes." (TPJS, pp. 160-61.)