Re-marrying

[ocarinahuff]

There's been more than a few topics on the subject of polygamy, for and against, pros and cons, etc. I've joined the side arguing against polygamy, but I've remembered something that needs to be explained if polygamy is indeed a false doctrine.

Say a man and woman are married, sealed for both time and eternity. Then some time later the woman dies. After a period of grief the man remarries.

The question is, if polygamy is not practiced in the Celestial Kingdom, then is the second wife sealed for time only? The idea behind the question is that if polygamy is wrong in this life, then it won't magically become right in the next life.

If the second wife is indeed sealed to the man for time AND eternity, then we've got a conundrum. Either it is a bad practice that needs to be corrected, or polygamy is accepted in heaven. In any case, this is one of the most confusing topics in all of LDS theology.

[A Random Phrase]

Good question. If the second wife has never been married before, then what? Very good question.

[jockeybox]

Or maybe what we think we seal on earth really isn't sealed unless ratified by the Holy Spirit of promise.

Has the Holy Spirit sanctioned any plural marriage to endure forever?

[braingrunt]

what more could possibly be said on this topic?

mountains of arguments, including this one, have already been undertaken, with no discernable impact on anyone.

For example, another mention of Cochran by the Col, will just roll my eyes.

Can we just agree on this point, that God will sort it all out one way or another?

[A Random Phrase]

Has the Holy Spirit sanctioned any plural marriage to endure forever?

Not as far as I know.

[A Random Phrase]

Can we just agree on this point, that God will sort it all out one way or another?

I am absolutely sure that he will.

[djinwa]

what more could possibly be said on this topic?

mountains of arguments, including this one, have already been undertaken, with no discernable impact on anyone.

For example, another mention of Cochran by the Col, will just roll my eyes.

Can we just agree on this point, that God will sort it all out one way or another?

So we are to invest endless time and money and effort to get a reward that is unclear and we don't know if we want it?

Years ago I called church headquarters to get the official position on polygamy in the hereafter, and I was told they have no position on the matter and I was to pray and decide for myself. In other words, design your own heaven. Again, for what purpose do we have a prophet?

I don't think a just God would punish a person for waiting to decide after death when hopefully things are made clear. For some, choosing eternal polygamy would be hell.

[Original_Intent]

For some, the idea of an eternity of service to others would be hell. I'm not claiming I know how it is going to be, but I BELIEVE that a good bit will probably be very difficult to adjust to if we are stuck in the traditions of our fathers. Joseph said that church members would try to kill him if he preached everything that he knew. I believe the same is true for most modern church members - anything too outlandish and they freak out.

So we get the gospel we demand, I guess.

[Fiannan]

For some, the idea of an eternity of service to others would be hell. I'm not claiming I know how it is going to be, but I BELIEVE that a good bit will probably be very difficult to adjust to if we are stuck in the traditions of our fathers. Joseph said that church members would try to kill him if he preached everything that he knew. I believe the same is true for most modern church members - anything too outlandish and they freak out.

So we get the gospel we demand, I guess.

Regardless of the polygamy issue this is quite profound.

As for the afterlife I think people expecting a 1950s nuclear family arrangement governed under a corporate model may be in for a huge shock, or maybe not, who knows? Maybe every man will be given his wives plus 70 pale specially created young women with black eyes for their mutual pleasure for the eternities...or?

[Original_Intent]

I'm with you Fiannan. I don't think, of course, that it is going to be some kind of sexual free-for-all, but I DO believe that we are going to be much less....possessive of each other. i.e. "get yer hands off'n MY woman (or man). Again, I don't expect licentiousness, either. I guess one thing I expect is that we are all going to be INTIMATELY aware of each others thoughts and feelings. I think they will be able to be kept private to some extent, but it will be clear whether a person is being open and honest with us.

I think that we will be able to openly admire and express appreciation for others of both sexes without the jealousy that would likely ensue here in Telestial-land. I think of course that we will be much more admiring of spiritual qualities rather than a "well-tabernacled spirit" as we euphemistically used to say. I think this intimacy of knowing each others hearts and minds is going to be a much higher "sacrament" than exchanging bodily fluids. I've heard of a lot of people talking about how simply horrid sharing a spouse would be...I expect we are all going to be sharing a good deal more than we can comprehend - things that are far beyond physical intimacy. All that being said, I REPEAT, I don't think that means we will be sharing physical intimacy as well. That just seems very unheavenly to me. But I also figure I am in for as many paradigm shifts as the next guy or gal.

[natasha]

We are only SEALED for eternity in the temple. Our TIME portion is legit because the sealers in the temple have a license from the county to marry someone for time. I have a good friend who just a year ago was married in the temple for time ONLY...since both of them had deceased spouses to whom they were sealed. And yes...if someone's eternal companion dies and the living male companion later wants to marry someone who has not been sealed to someone else, these two can be sealed for eternity....resulting in the male having two women that he is sealed to for eternity.

[jwharton]

There's been more than a few topics on the subject of polygamy, for and against, pros and cons, etc. I've joined the side arguing against polygamy, but I've remembered something that needs to be explained if polygamy is indeed a false doctrine.

Say a man and woman are married, sealed for both time and eternity. Then some time later the woman dies. After a period of grief the man remarries.

The question is, if polygamy is not practiced in the Celestial Kingdom, then is the second wife sealed for time only? The idea behind the question is that if polygamy is wrong in this life, then it won't magically become right in the next life.

If the second wife is indeed sealed to the man for time AND eternity, then we've got a conundrum. Either it is a bad practice that needs to be corrected, or polygamy is accepted in heaven. In any case, this is one of the most confusing topics in all of LDS theology.

What I predict is people's attitudes will shift in such a way that who you are sealed to is actually meaningless and that it is only important that you have participated in the sealing ordinance.

Why do I predict this? As soon as a higher law is rejected and a people are unwilling to repent of rejecting that higher law, from that point onward there is a domino effect that ultimately takes from them all of the former light and truth that they held.

The conundrum of the widow of a deceased husband to whom she is sealed is far more vexing. Whatever man she marries will need to accept that he won't be able to be sealed to her and whatever children she bears will be the eternal posterity of her deceased husband.

What does this do to her options to re-marry? (Someone please answer this in detail.)
What does this do to the eternal options of the man that marries her for time?

The only fix for this is to allow the man the widow marries to also marry another wife through whom he can establish his eternal family.

[jwharton]

Can we just agree on this point, that God will sort it all out one way or another?

Nope, not satisfied with that because it is a cop-out.
We didn't enter into Celestial covenants to just cop-out of keeping them.
God already has settled this in the "former commandments" we are under condemnation for neglecting to administer in righteousness.
We already have a knowledge of all the things we are to do, we just have far too many who remain unconvinced that they need to be done.

[jwharton]

For some, the idea of an eternity of service to others would be hell. I'm not claiming I know how it is going to be, but I BELIEVE that a good bit will probably be very difficult to adjust to if we are stuck in the traditions of our fathers. Joseph said that church members would try to kill him if he preached everything that he knew. I believe the same is true for most modern church members - anything too outlandish and they freak out.

So we get the gospel we demand, I guess.

And it is upon this basis that the leaders will never be counted as having led the church astray.

[jwharton]

I'm with you Fiannan. I don't think, of course, that it is going to be some kind of sexual free-for-all, but I DO believe that we are going to be much less....possessive of each other. i.e. "get yer hands off'n MY woman (or man). Again, I don't expect licentiousness, either. I guess one thing I expect is that we are all going to be INTIMATELY aware of each others thoughts and feelings. I think they will be able to be kept private to some extent, but it will be clear whether a person is being open and honest with us.

I think that we will be able to openly admire and express appreciation for others of both sexes without the jealousy that would likely ensue here in Telestial-land. I think of course that we will be much more admiring of spiritual qualities rather than a "well-tabernacled spirit" as we euphemistically used to say. I think this intimacy of knowing each others hearts and minds is going to be a much higher "sacrament" than exchanging bodily fluids. I've heard of a lot of people talking about how simply horrid sharing a spouse would be...I expect we are all going to be sharing a good deal more than we can comprehend - things that are far beyond physical intimacy. All that being said, I REPEAT, I don't think that means we will be sharing physical intimacy as well. That just seems very unheavenly to me. But I also figure I am in for as many paradigm shifts as the next guy or gal.

Wish that "thank for post" mechanism was working. I can't not thank you for this post.

[braingrunt]

Can we just agree on this point, that God will sort it all out one way or another?

Nope, not satisfied with that because it is a cop-out.
.....

Not so much of a cop-out, as on opt-out. Aside from the voting and explaining my vote, I've stayed out of that other polygamy thread because I'm sure it's just more of the same. As superdan put it, a bit like a dog chasing its tail. It goes nowhere, and does so vigorously. There are so so so many posts in polygamy threads.

To explain my annoyance: here I thought that maybe I'd come into this thread and be treated to a discussion on Jesus' statements against remarriage after divorce; and instead ANOTHER POLYGAMY THREAD. No disrespect to the OP really, just not what I was hoping for. So my natural man blurts out: WHY?

My more spiritual man says to myself: just back out and let them discuss what they want to.

Ps, if you go look at some of those other polygamy threads, you will see that I'm a polygamy apologist; I just have no personal interest in living it.

[Tony]

Polygamy was practiced in the Old Testament. It was restored pursuant to the "restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:21)

The Prophet Joseph Smith said, "I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 324)

The Book of Mormon tells us that a man can only have one wife unless God commands his people to “raise up seed unto me.” God specifically states that if he will raise up seed unto himself, he will “command” his people, “otherwise they shall hearken unto these things,” meaning they shall have only one wife.

And the second chapter of Jacob, verses 27-30, states:

"Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

"For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

"Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

"For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

We need keep in mind what the great Jehovah said through Isaiah: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Our understanding of the way things are on earth has little to do with the way things are in the celestial kingdom. Jesus Christ’s doctrine is that a man can be sealed to many women and that it will last for eternity for all parties worthy of a celestial glory.

[jwharton]

Can we just agree on this point, that God will sort it all out one way or another?

Nope, not satisfied with that because it is a cop-out.
.....

Not so much of a cop-out, as on opt-out. Aside from the voting and explaining my vote, I've stayed out of that other polygamy thread because I'm sure it's just more of the same. As superdan put it, a bit like a dog chasing its tail. It goes nowhere, and does so vigorously. There are so so so many posts in polygamy threads.

To explain my annoyance: here I thought that maybe I'd come into this thread and be treated to a discussion on Jesus' statements against remarriage after divorce; and instead ANOTHER POLYGAMY THREAD. No disrespect to the OP really, just not what I was hoping for. So my natural man blurts out: WHY?

My more spiritual man says to myself: just back out and let them discuss what they want to.

Ps, if you go look at some of those other polygamy threads, you will see that I'm a polygamy apologist; I just have no personal interest in living it.

I too have no personal hankering for it.
But, when I see Mormon chapter 8 telling me a sword is hanging over us because we as a people forbid it, this is where it does get very personal to me and I also really feel for the plight of widows and orhpans and see no better solution for them than plural marriage.
I admit I injected that into this thread and if you like I'll delete that post. At the least I will forebear to spill it over into this thread.

[A Random Phrase]

As for the afterlife I think people expecting a 1950s nuclear family arrangement governed under a corporate model may be in for a huge shock, or maybe not, who knows? Maybe every man will be given his wives plus 70 pale specially created young women with black eyes for their mutual pleasure for the eternities...or?

I think that the afterlife will be a huge shock - and, at the same time, something so familiar we will be embarrassed at the things we didn't "get" while we were here.

I've stayed out of that other polygamy thread because I'm sure it's just more of the same. As superdan put it, a bit like a dog chasing its tail. It goes nowhere, and does so vigorously.

Pretty much, yes. It is like the other polygamy threads I've read on LDSFF for the last 5+ years. Different actors (no Col Flagg). Different spins at times. Same going back and forth and no one is convinced.

[shadow]

There's been more than a few topics on the subject of polygamy, for and against, pros and cons, etc. I've joined the side arguing against polygamy, but I've remembered something that needs to be explained if polygamy is indeed a false doctrine.

Say a man and woman are married, sealed for both time and eternity. Then some time later the woman dies. After a period of grief the man remarries.

The question is, if polygamy is not practiced in the Celestial Kingdom, then is the second wife sealed for time only? The idea behind the question is that if polygamy is wrong in this life, then it won't magically become right in the next life.

If the second wife is indeed sealed to the man for time AND eternity, then we've got a conundrum. Either it is a bad practice that needs to be corrected, or polygamy is accepted in heaven. In any case, this is one of the most confusing topics in all of LDS theology.

I think polygamy can be accepted in Heaven. I've known two men who lost their wives to cancer who's wives set up their second marriages for after their deaths. The one married the wife's sister, in the Temple for eternity. She hadn't ever been married. The second was a wife who arranged for her husband to marry a dear friend who also hadn't been previously married. They married for eternity as well. Both were the wishes of the wives. Both could've asked that they marry for time only, but that wasn't the case. I don't think I'd have that kind of love and charity. I think those two wives are more Christlike for their desires than I had previously thought. Both were well versed in the Gospel.

For me, I find remarrying after a spouse dies a bit foreign. I wouldn't do it (I say it as a man with a living wife). As far as I'm concerned, if my wife dies it's just a temporary separation. I wouldn't remarry if she were trapped on some island or serving a life sentence in prison. I don't really see a difference as far as the separation is concerned.
Maybe I just have an odd perspective. Wouldn't the spouse who passed away be lonely too? There's no marriage in the spirit world. As far as I'm aware, time is the same here as it is there. Hopefully it won't ever be a choice I'll be confronted with.

[Original_Intent]

For me, I find remarrying after a spouse dies a bit foreign. I wouldn't do it (I say it as a man with a living wife). As far as I'm concerned, if my wife dies it's just a temporary separation. I wouldn't remarry if she were trapped on some island or serving a life sentence in prison. I don't really see a difference as far as the separation is concerned.
Maybe I just have an odd perspective. Wouldn't the spouse who passed away be lonely too? There's no marriage in the spirit world. As far as I'm aware, time is the same here as it is there. Hopefully it won't ever be a choice I'll be confronted with.

Nice perspective. I feel the same way.

[SkyBird]

There's been more than a few topics on the subject of polygamy, for and against, pros and cons, etc. I've joined the side arguing against polygamy, but I've remembered something that needs to be explained if polygamy is indeed a false doctrine.

Say a man and woman are married, sealed for both time and eternity. Then some time later the woman dies. After a period of grief the man remarries.

The question is, if polygamy is not practiced in the Celestial Kingdom, then is the second wife sealed for time only? The idea behind the question is that if polygamy is wrong in this life, then it won't magically become right in the next life.

If the second wife is indeed sealed to the man for time AND eternity, then we've got a conundrum. Either it is a bad practice that needs to be corrected, or polygamy is accepted in heaven. In any case, this is one of the most confusing topics in all of LDS theology.

The whole "sealing" process is symbolic and metaphorical. Any "sealing" is always symbolic of an individuals personal righteousness to the principles of godliness.

That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 121:36)