Number of Snuffer followers

[WarMonger]

Call me a Snufferite if you want, I don't care. I believe I'm following Jesus Christ according to the dictats of my conscious(AofF 11). In fact we must not be "of" any according to D&C 76. Not of Paul, or Apollos or Cephas; and I would say of Smith, Monson, or even Snuffer we fall short. We cannnot be "of" any but of Christ, otherwise we cannot inherit Celestial glory.

It is a gross misinterpretation. If you are of Christ but don't accept his prophet you are of the telestrial order. You have to accept all not just what you choose. "by my own words or my servants it is the same".

D&C76:98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.
102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud.

[marc]

At the risk of starting another Denver Suffer thread I would like to ask if anyone here has any idea just how many followers of Denver Snuffer there might be? I realize this is likely an impossible question to answer given the un-centralized nature of his movement but I would be interested in hearing your estimates in any event.

Thank you.

I guess it depends what you mean by "follower?" People who "follow the prophet" believe the words and live by the words given to us over the pulpit. I'm in the EQ Prez and one of us (counselors) said that if Pres. Monson told him to start walking 50 miles in one direction, he would not hesitate and would start walking in that direction 50 miles. I don't suspect that all people here would do that. Or maybe they would because the prophet said so. It's too easy to label someone without providing parameters or context.

I've read two of DS' books. I believe he has been in the Lord's presence. I'll visit his blog once in a while. I didn't go to any of his lectures or have read them all. I have listened to most of them. I'm not afraid to hear what he has to say. I'm no more a "follower" of DS than I am of Hugh Nibley.

One thing that strikes me as curious, if not funny-certainly ironic and even tragic. The Jews cast out Isaiah and killed him. He was a heretic! Yet they preserved his words. The Jews mocked, cast out and/or killed many other prophets. yet they preserved their words. They reviled Moses, yet they "followed" his laws and kept his words. They imprisoned Jeremiah. Yet even the brass plates preserved his words! Just as current as today's newspaper! Samuel the Lamanite was spot on.

The Lord chastised Joseph Smith (and the saints) often. DS is an odd duck, but probably no less than all the others who stood in the Lord's presence. So many people have certain expectations. If a prophet (read: messenger) has been in the Lord's presence, he should be perfect. He should say this. He shouldn't say that. He should look like this. He shouldn't look like that. They gladly put stumbling blocks on their own path and ignore the messages.

Who cares how many people "follow" Denver? Funny how fear and doubt can cripple one's heart. But I suppose if one is too busy judging, one doesn't make time for praying and asking God the right questions.

[Phoenixstar117]

Curious. Do you suppose what he told you was a result of you going to visit him for his autograph? If anyone ever sought me out-idolized me-I might be inclined to tell you something that would push you away. I've never met him and have no desire to meet him, so it's hard to make a judgment one way or another.

One thing that strikes me as curious, if not funny-certainly ironic and even tragic. The Jews cast out Isaiah and killed him. He was a heretic! Yet they preserved his words. The Jews mocked, cast out and/or killed many other prophets. yet they preserved their words. They reviled Moses, yet they "followed" his laws and kept his words. They imprisoned Jeremiah. Yet even the brass plates preserved his words! Just as current as today's newspaper! Samuel the Lamanite was spot on.

The Lord chastised Joseph Smith (and the saints) often. DS is an odd duck, but probably no less than all the others who stood in the Lord's presence. So many people have certain expectations. If a prophet (read: messenger) has been in the Lord's presence, he should be perfect. He should say this. He shouldn't say that. He should look like this. He shouldn't look like that. They gladly put stumbling blocks on their own path and ignore the messages.

Who cares how many people "follow" Denver? Funny how fear and doubt can cripple one's heart. But I suppose if one is too busy judging, one doesn't make time for praying and asking God the right questions.

Both of these statements really started making me think about prophet personality. I wonder if sometimes they can come off as very abrasive? In studying church history, I would certainly not feel comfortable in BY's presence. I wonder what people like Isaiah and Jerimiah were like, as people? Joseph sure landed himself in a lot of trouble at times. There was the fact that he was pretty much run out of Kirtland. Nephi's brother's became completely ostricized from him, and I personally don't think it was just because of his message or the fact he was a prophet. Not to blame Nephi, but if my younger brother was such an upstart, I would be pretty upset too.

I more or less share the desire to keep my distance. I used to think it would be so cool to have a 5 minute interview with the prophet, but nowadays, I want to maintain my distance, mostly for fear of judging. Even members of the First Presidency and the quorum of the 12 I'm hesitant about seeing. I still have a great deal of respect for the office which they hold and the calling which they recieve, so I fear to judge them.

I used to have a lot of anger directed toward the church and the leaders, but I've come to see how blind that was and I'm trying to repent, and watch myself even more carefully. Now, even though I may not see them as the same Holy men I saw in the past, I pray for them and try to do what Jesus taught us.

[marc]

Yeah...Moses was slow of speech. So was Enoch (who at least 65 years of age, considered himself a mere lad). Isaiah preached naked for three years. Nephi probably had anger issues in his forthrightness (I know I speak hard words against the wicked). LOL, he must have ticked off his brothers a LOT! Peter was impetuous and outspoken. Joseph Smith, if I recall, could have a temper. I read somewhere that Pres. Monson does too, but that could be his age and possible dementia. I don't know. It's obvious that the Lord chooses the weak to confound the strong (proud).

[Phoenixstar117]

Yeah...Moses was slow of speech. So was Enoch (who at least 65 years of age, considered himself a mere lad). Isaiah preached naked for three years. Nephi probably had anger issues in his forthrightness (I know I speak hard words against the wicked). LOL, he must have ticked off his brothers a LOT! Peter was impetuous and outspoken. Joseph Smith, if I recall, could have a temper. I read somewhere that Pres. Monson does too, but that could be his age and possible dementia. I don't know. It's obvious that the Lord chooses the weak to confound the strong (proud).

While the message may be true, it's sometimes hard to take the messenger serious.

[Rose Garden]

:)) :)) :))

Good one. At least he has clothes on, as far as I can tell.

Here's the thing. If Denver Snuffer really entered the presence of the Lord, and you are too, then you are following him. You are also following Nephi, Isaiah, Lehi, Joseph, and a whole slew of other fine upstanding characters.

The real question is do you idolize Denver. That is what many people on this thread are really talking about. And to tell the truth, if you are sitting around insisting that you are not following Denver but you are seeking the Lord, then that's a good indication that you may be following (a.k.a. idolizing) Denver. Why are you clinging to his words so closely?

[Daryl]

GK -- you'd get a better or "straight" answer if you refrain from referring to Snuffer "followers" (a term they generally don't like) and instead asked -

How many believe the teaching of Denver Snuffer that the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and all other general authorities lost the priesthood at the April 2014 General Conference?

Quoting Snuffer:

Last general conference, the entire First Presidency, the 12, the 70, and all other
general authorities and auxiliaries, voted to sustain those who abused their authority in
casting me out of the church.

At that moment, the Lord ended all claims of the church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to claim it is led by the priesthood." -- D Snuffer

More: “If you were ordained in the LDS Church before April 2014 you can bless the sacrament and baptize. Otherwise, you should hold a conference among yourselves to sustain those who will minister unto you.” -- Snuffer

An adherent to this teaching is Tim Malone, who wrote in a public blog:
Tim Malone blog:

Significance of April 2014 Conference
Per Denver, “If you were ordained in the LDS Church before April 2014 you can bless the sacrament and baptize. Otherwise, you should hold a conference among yourselves to sustain those who will minister unto you.” This is an obvious reference to the date he claims to have wrested the kingdom or authority away from the Church. What an amazing claim to make. "

I have discussed this claim before, more than once, and noted scriptures that go IMHO against this central teaching of Mr Snuffer.

I believe the quotes and ideas you have cited are mere parochial exercises about a much bigger situation. I didn't need Denver Snuffer telling me that the institution has been operating outside PH authority. I didn't need him to tell me it was not among them. Yet this talk 10 where DS boldly states what you cited is the final blow for those with eyes to see.

To me, it's kinda like David going the extra step. He had already finished Goliath when the stone sunk in his forehead and Goliath fell to the ground face first. Yet as a symbolic act of surety, David removed Goliath's head. A sure sign the God of Israel triumphed. A sign to the watching Israelites that their God had prevailed. A sign to the Canaanites to 'get outta Dodge', as they ran off.

49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.

50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.

51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

People can choose to believe what they want about PH in the church, but it is very clear we have had issues since JS day. JS himself removed his sacred temple garments because he had been asked by God to do so. A very clear sign he needed to repents and return to favor with the Lord. Add 170+ years, it's not difficult to see that PH can so easily be forfited.

I didn't need DS experience of being exed, appeals, sustainings, etc. to know that PH has been lost. But certainly now the head has been severed.

pa·ro·chi·al
pəˈrōkēəl/Submit
adjective
of or relating to a church parish.
"the parochial church council"
having a limited or narrow outlook or scope.
"this worldview seems incredibly naive and parochial"
synonyms: narrow-minded, small-minded, provincial, narrow, small-town, conservative, illiberal, intolerant; informaljerkwater
"she was constantly challenging their parochial approach to education"

[marc]

:)) :)) :))

Good one. At least he has clothes on, as far as I can tell.

Here's the thing. If Denver Snuffer really entered the presence of the Lord, and you are too, then you are following him. You are also following Nephi, Isaiah, Lehi, Joseph, and a whole slew of other fine upstanding characters.

The real question is do you idolize Denver. That is what many people on this thread are really talking about. And to tell the truth, if you are sitting around insisting that you are not following Denver but you are seeking the Lord, then that's a good indication that you may be following (a.k.a. idolizing) Denver. Why are you clinging to his words so closely?

I wrote about that once. We all cannot help but follow each other if we are walking along the iron rod, holding tightly. There's room for only one at a time at any given point along the rod. So in a sense, yes, we are following in the footsteps of those who successfully followed the light of Christ back into his presence. I don't equate "following" with "idolizing" either. I do see your point, but at least for me, it's not applicable. Before Denver, there were many others all the way back to Adam whose words we "cling to."

[Phoenixstar117]

:)) :)) :))

Good one. At least he has clothes on, as far as I can tell.

Here's the thing. If Denver Snuffer really entered the presence of the Lord, and you are too, then you are following him. You are also following Nephi, Isaiah, Lehi, Joseph, and a whole slew of other fine upstanding characters.

The real question is do you idolize Denver. That is what many people on this thread are really talking about. And to tell the truth, if you are sitting around insisting that you are not following Denver but you are seeking the Lord, then that's a good indication that you may be following (a.k.a. idolizing) Denver. Why are you clinging to his words so closely?

I wrote about that once. We all cannot help but follow each other if we are walking along the iron rod, holding tightly. There's room for only one at a time at any given point along the rod. So in a sense, yes, we are following in the footsteps of those who successfully followed the light of Christ back into his presence. I don't equate "following" with "idolizing" either. I do see your point, but at least for me, it's not applicable. Before Denver, there were many others all the way back to Adam whose words we "cling to."

I have to admit, that it is probably a fault in me that I would equate follow with idolize.

In answer to why cling to words so closely? I wouldn't call that idolizing. Truth is self-evident, as the founding fathers of our country would be apt to say. I cling to truth, and whether that truth comes from DS, JS, BY, or the BoM, I cling to it as the rod of iron.

BTW, my favorite modern president of the church has to be Benson. I cling to his beware of pride talk like none other. That doesn't mean I idolize the man, but the message indeed strikes a deep chord in me.

[durangout]

[quote="A Random Phrase

How many believe that Denver opens the scriptures up like no man before him (in my lifetime)? Yes; he takes scriptures out of context and knnowingly misinterpreets them like no man before him.

How many believe that Denver teaches what the Lord told him to teach? =))

How many believe that Denver teaches the truth, but maybe the Lord didn't tell him to say all of that stuff? See my previous answer.

How many believe that Denver began teaching truth but got off the rails? Some truth yes but he taught nothing that hadn't already been taught 100s of times by other people.

How many believe that the first book was spot on, but then Denver let pride rule his heart and followed the wrong path? Denver is the poster child for pride.

How many believe Denver is an agent of the devil? B/c of his paradigm, DS would call ME an agent of the devil. I guess it takes one to know one.

How many believe Denver ... "meh, who cares about him"? Yes; his time in the spotlight is over.

.[/quote]

[durangout]

For those of you who claim not to follow him or refuse to answer (but your really are), you might want to check out the definition of follower:

fol-low-er
[fol-oh-er]
noun
1.
a person or thing that follows.

2.
a person who follows another in regard to his or her ideas or belief; disciple or adherent.

3.
a person who imitates, copies, or takes as a model or ideal:
"He was little more than a follower of current modes."

4.
an attendant, servant, or retainer.

5.
a person who follows or subscribes to another's posts on a social-networking website:
"He spent hours figuring out how to get more followers on Twitter."

6.
British Informal. a boyfriend or suitor, especially of a maidservant.

7.
Machinery. a part receiving motion from or following the movements of another part, especially a cam.

Synonyms

2. supporter. Follower, adherent, partisan refer to someone who demonstrates allegiance to a person, a doctrine, a cause, and the like. Follower often has an implication of personal relationship or of slavish acquiescence. Adherent, a more formal word, has

[marc]

Well, by some of those definitions, it stands to reason that I do follow Denver Snuffer. And Hugh Nibley. And Thomas S. Monson. And Rich Froning Jr. And Ronda Rousey. And Tony Horton. And Pauline Nordin...

[Rose Garden]

:)) :)) :))

Good one. At least he has clothes on, as far as I can tell.

Here's the thing. If Denver Snuffer really entered the presence of the Lord, and you are too, then you are following him. You are also following Nephi, Isaiah, Lehi, Joseph, and a whole slew of other fine upstanding characters.

The real question is do you idolize Denver. That is what many people on this thread are really talking about. And to tell the truth, if you are sitting around insisting that you are not following Denver but you are seeking the Lord, then that's a good indication that you may be following (a.k.a. idolizing) Denver. Why are you clinging to his words so closely?

I wrote about that once. We all cannot help but follow each other if we are walking along the iron rod, holding tightly. There's room for only one at a time at any given point along the rod. So in a sense, yes, we are following in the footsteps of those who successfully followed the light of Christ back into his presence. I don't equate "following" with "idolizing" either. I do see your point, but at least for me, it's not applicable. Before Denver, there were many others all the way back to Adam whose words we "cling to."

I have to admit, that it is probably a fault in me that I would equate follow with idolize.

In answer to why cling to words so closely? I wouldn't call that idolizing. Truth is self-evident, as the founding fathers of our country would be apt to say. I cling to truth, and whether that truth comes from DS, JS, BY, or the BoM, I cling to it as the rod of iron.

BTW, my favorite modern president of the church has to be Benson. I cling to his beware of pride talk like none other. That doesn't mean I idolize the man, but the message indeed strikes a deep chord in me.

I don't think I adequately expressed what I was trying to say.

There are those who are terribly concerned about whether or not they are "following" Denver because Denver said, don't follow me. He also has talked a lot about the LDS mentality of "follow the prophet" in a negative way. And so these people are adamantly denying that they are following Denver when they really are.

There are those who wait eagerly for every post. There are those who insist that everyone should read everything that Denver writes. There are those who discuss everything he has said at length with others. They are very strongly concerned about Dennver's exact wording and the precise meaning of his words. This is what I mean by clinging to his words. In my opinion, this is an indication that they are led more by Denver than by the Spirit of the Lord. But then again, the Spirit might have told them to do that, so maybe not.

As for me, the only thing I am certain of is that I'm trying my hardest to follow the Spirit of the Lord. If Denver has accomplished something I haven't and am trying to, then I suppose I am following him. I rarely get any insight into things from Denver's words that I haven't already gotten from the Spirit first. It's more like he's following me, from my vantage point.

In the end, it really doesn't matter. I just want to do what the Lord wants me to do. I don't really care if I am following Denver or not. What really matters to me is if I attain Zion or I don't.

[BroJones]

Well, by some of those definitions, it stands to reason that I do follow Denver Snuffer....

I don't.
To be specific (again), I have received a personal witness that Jesus WILL return to Adam-ondi-Ahman, in Missouri -- which Denver Snuffer casts doubt upon, wrongly!

Frankly, it makes me kinda sick the way he seeks to recruit good LDSaints to his way of thinking, casting doubt here, casting aspersions there.

But I will admit that those who "follow" or "heed" or "adhere to" (choose your verb)
Snuffer's teachings post more often here than those who do not, that is, at L-Denver-Snuffer-FF.

[marc]

Semantics. I do respect and love you, Bro. Jones. Of course I don't follow Denver. I have my own path. Like you, I have received answers to my own prayers. I have seen visions, witnessed miracles and have heard the Lord's voice, independent of Denver Snuffer, Thomas S. Monson or anyone else. The Lord has spoken to me in very word, and is drawing nearer to me as I draw nearer to Him. I do not place Denver or anyone else between the Lord and me. As it should be. I look forward to meeting you some day and praising our God together in Zion.

[freedomforall]

I follow Jesus Christ, my Lord, Savior, and King. I do not follow any man.

Personally, when Jesus was upon the earth as a man, I would like to believe I would have followed him. Many people who were with him, around him, saw him and walked with him merely scoffed at him and wanted to harm him. Then at some point they took him, a man, and hung him on a cross. They did not believe he was the son of God even Jehovah clinging to wood by nails in his hands and feet, and intense agony on his face.
How could Snuffer ever be anything like Jesus of Nazareth, unless he repents?

[marc]

I follow Jesus Christ, my Lord, Savior, and King. I do not follow any man.

Personally, when Jesus was upon the earth as a man, I would like to believe I would have followed him. Many people who were with him, around him, saw him and walked with him merely scoffed at him and wanted to harm him. Then at some point they took him, a man, and hung him on a cross. They did not believe he was the son of God even Jehovah clinging to wood by nails in his hands and feet, and intense agony on his face.
How could Snuffer ever be anything like Jesus of Nazareth, unless he repents?

How can any of us unless we repent?

[ajax]

There are those who are terribly concerned about whether or not they are "following" Denver because Denver said, don't follow me. He also has talked a lot about the LDS mentality of "follow the prophet" in a negative way. And so these people are adamantly denying that they are following Denver when they really are.

There are those who wait eagerly for every post. There are those who insist that everyone should read everything that Denver writes. There are those who discuss everything he has said at length with others. They are very strongly concerned about Dennver's exact wording and the precise meaning of his words.

You forgot about those who went out to their way to follow him to every lecture location.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

Coach, did you just bust out the Ronda Rousey card? You did! =)) =)) =))

[freedomforall]

Well, by some of those definitions, it stands to reason that I do follow Denver Snuffer. And Hugh Nibley. And Thomas S. Monson. And Rich Froning Jr. And Ronda Rousey. And Tony Horton. And Pauline Nordin...

Ronda Rousey? 8-|

Ronda Rousey.jpg (67.32 KiB) Viewed 1233 times

[marc]

Coach, did you just bust out the Ronda Rousey card? You did! =)) =)) =))

I knew someone would catch that sooner or later.

I used to watch a LOT of UFC back in the day. I still see event line ups on my Facebook feed. So, yeah, I indirectly follow her. Girls can be a lot meaner than guys, especially when they know how to fight. She was in the news not too long ago for being bullied by a bunch of thugs in a theater. They had no clue who they messed with and she ended up mopping the floor with them.

[freedomforall]

I follow Jesus Christ, my Lord, Savior, and King. I do not follow any man.

Personally, when Jesus was upon the earth as a man, I would like to believe I would have followed him. Many people who were with him, around him, saw him and walked with him merely scoffed at him and wanted to harm him. Then at some point they took him, a man, and hung him on a cross. They did not believe he was the son of God even Jehovah clinging to wood by nails in his hands and feet, and intense agony on his face.
How could Snuffer ever be anything like Jesus of Nazareth, unless he repents?

How can any of us unless we repent?

The idea of not following any man is ambiguous, in that Jesus was a man and people followed him, right? And yes we must repent and follow Jesus as if he were still an earthly man to be followed by those desiring to emulate him, as it should be.
Jesus has put his trust in men in our day to run his church called prophets, seers and regulators, I mean revelators. As long as these men are leading us toward the man Jesus, we should follow them as well as though Jesus were among them in person. Why is it that so many saints have such a hard time concerning this concept? In fact, there are scriptures with God telling us in his words that we are to follow his servants. And for those casting them out of their lives, wo, wo, wo be unto them. This is good enough for me to understand and hold to.

[marc]

I understand what you're trying to say, FFA. Thank you for your thoughtful post. IF I lived during Christ's mortal life, I'd like to think that I would follow, and I mean literally follow Him wherever he went and do whatever He bid me do.

[freedomforall]

There are those who are terribly concerned about whether or not they are "following" Denver because Denver said, don't follow me. He also has talked a lot about the LDS mentality of "follow the prophet" in a negative way. And so these people are adamantly denying that they are following Denver when they really are.

There are those who wait eagerly for every post. There are those who insist that everyone should read everything that Denver writes. There are those who discuss everything he has said at length with others. They are very strongly concerned about Dennver's exact wording and the precise meaning of his words.

You forgot about those who went out to their way to follow him to every lecture location.

Probably more people than ever went to "Know Your Religion".

[WarMonger]

James 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

The question is simple either your agree with DS that the PH has been removed from the LDS church or not. If you agree with him (DS) better to give up your LDS membership and receive his baptism. One cannot chose both - one is salty the other pure, your decision.

The Messiah speaking of false prophets, same principle either a tree is corrupt or not! You decide which tree is corrupt, what tree you decide is not corrupt - you are then a follower of that tree. The teaching that we don't follow prophets and don't need them is simple false doctrine.

Matt. 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.