Question about sealings.

[natasha]

How does one know if they are or aren't sealed by the holy spirit of promise?

What is bound on earth is bound in heaven.

And what is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven.

[Sandinista]

My situation exactly. My wife was sealed to her first husband and their natural kids were born in the covenant, and some other adopted kids were "sealed" to them. Her ex-husband decided he liked lots of other women too much, they got divorced and he got ex'd.

My first wife decided she had enough of "Joe Smith's Cult" (her words) and beat feet for the horizon. So much for that marriage.

My wife and I met, but she couldn't get her first sealing canceled even though her husband was no longer a member, until right before we were sealed. The Church doesn't want "loose women" running around I guess!

Since my first wife was not a member we were never sealed and I didn't have to get a sealing cancelation.

Anyway, my wife's first sealing was canceled and then we were sealed to each other. Her kids, both the ones born in the covenant and the adopted ones had no need to be sealed to me because, as a very wise Bishop explained, they were already "sealed into the network" and they didn't need to be re-sealed. Just because their dad was a @#@& didn't mean they were guilty of any wrong doing. My kids, haven't never been sealed needed to be sealed to us.

When you really think about it, as much as we talk about "eternal families" with our kids the nuclear "family" they go on into eternity with is their marriage in the everlasting covenant. We are all connected as children of God, though we may have closer relationships with some of our brothers and sisters. Hence the "sealed into the network" comment. There are friends I have in this life that I am almost as connected with as much as I'm connected with my siblings, and I consider it a privilege to be "sealed" in an eternal relationship with them as covenant people of the Lord just as much as I feel "sealed" to my siblings. Of course, my EC (eternal companion) is the one connection that is the most important.

[Thinker]

How does one know if they are or aren't sealed by the holy spirit of promise?

How does one know if they genuinely love and connect with another spiritually?

[marktheshark]

Ok what about this situation. Say a guy (a different one) marries a woman has 3 kids and they are sealed. Later on they get a divorce due to infidelity on both parts. He is ex'd ...rebaptized remarries has 2 more kids, gets sealed...Later there's a divorce same reason as the first. He's ex'd AGAIN.... rebaptized and gets remarried but has to wait 5years get a recommend again....1st wife is in good standing....second wife not even close....where does that leave his kids.

Interesting.

According to scripture (D&C 42), anyone guilty a second time for Adultery should be cast out. Also, I have heard that anyone who is ex'd a second time for Adultery should be denied baptism a third time.

My cousin's first husband is in this situation. Been ex'd 2X for Adultery. He has been told consideration for rebaptizing is a very long and strict path that he must demonstrably prove that he can live the commandments and laws of God.

And he that looketh upon a woman to lust after her shall deny the faith, and shall not have the Spirit; and if he repents not he shall be cast out.
24 Thou shalt not commit adultery; and he that committeth adultery, and repenteth not, shall be cast out.
25 But he that has committed adultery and repents with all his heart, and forsaketh it, and doeth it no more, thou shalt forgive;
26 But if he doeth it again, he shall not be forgiven, but shall be cast out.




His three children, my 2nd cousins, are still sealed to him and their mom (my cousin). This was not broken.

My cousin has since remarried and been sealed to her husband. The kids were not sealed to him.

The concept of sealing of children is a human family concept (we can't be saved without our dead). The sealing of spouses is individualized.

[Tetraman]

According to scripture (D&C 42), anyone guilty a second time for Adultery should be cast out. Also, I have heard that anyone who is ex'd a second time for Adultery should be denied baptism a third time.

Interesting. A similar question was asked of elder Cook in our Stake conference a few years ago. His response was (as I remember it) that because of the times we live in the Lord has directed President Monson to be lenient on these issues.

[Obrien]

Wow...I wish they'd say the Lord told TM ANYTHING in conference.
Did he say anything about leniency in tithing, WoW or porn? Not trying to derail, just curious.

[passionflower]

-delete-

[jdawg1012]

I have been divorced and re-married. Both marriages were temple marriages. The first sealing was not cancelled before I was sealed to my current wife. The councel given was to not have the sealing cancelled until my first wife was ready to be sealed again because there were children involved. She remarried, but not in the temple, so the sealing was never officially cancelled. My understanding is that the act of getting a divorce violates the covenant so the sealing is no longer in effect anyway, and as has been already stated here, nothing is truly valid in the eternities until sealed by the holy spirit of promise.

My dad was sealed to his first wife, then divorced, married my mother, and they too were sealed. There was no dissolution of the first sealing. Dad was sealed to two living women.

Additionally, a friend of mine married (was sealed) a woman, whom he later divorced and married a second woman who had to have a dissolution of her sealing to her first husband, in order to be sealed to my friend. My friend didn't have to dissolve the sealing to his first wife, only the woman had to dissolve her sealing (and had to go all the way to the First Presidency, for approval), in order to be sealed to second spouses.

WOMEN cannot be sealed to multiple men. Men CAN BE sealed to multiple, living women, unless the policy has VERY recently changed.

I have no comment about the opinion that sealings are, de facto, "no longer in effect" by divorce.

[djinwa]

I'm sure as on other issues in the church, things are done differently depending on your leaders. Probably a lot of people sealed in error.

Kind of makes you wonder why we care so much. Seems like a lot of busy work. If I were to become a god, don't think I'd have people wasting their time trying to figure this out.

I mean, I can have all my kids sealed to me, but doesn't mean we're going to be together. If someone is unrighteous, they will be separated, never to be seen again.

And my righteous kids and parents will be off building their own worlds and doing church work, and will rarely see me anyway. Sort of like my relatives now who don't have time to visit because of their church obligations. Gone to meetings, missions, home teaching, temple, callings, cleaning the church, etc. Little time for extended family.

[Ezra]

My sister was sealed and then devorced. Her ex remarried and was sealed to his 2nd. And she was still sealed to him untell she was married for the hehe no 2nd or 3rd but 4th time to a nice guy who after a year were then sealed together. But befor they could be sealed she the first had to be released. But tell she was ready to be sealed for the second time she was still sealed to her first.

I also dated a girl for awhile that had the same. She was still sealed to her ex who was remarried and sealed to a second.

So something might have changed in the last 8 years??

[natasha]

Further up I asked a question...let me repeat: In actuality, aren't we being sealed to the Abrahamic Covenant...thereby affording us all the blessings and promises given to him?

Also (edited to add)...weren't we all brothers and sisters in our premortal life...and that includes are children and spouses...we were first brothers and sisters before any of our earthly relationships...therefore, sealing us all into one big eternal family?

[lgr3065]

our temple ordinances are not the REAL thing, they are a guide to what we can accomplish in this life which is speaking to the LORD through the veil in the flesh. We mush accomplish this. When we make that connection then Christs gives us the REAL thing and only then. Sealing comes from this process and MUST be by the Holy Spirit of Promise and is a result of our calling and elections directly from Christ (no man can do it for us). Vicarious ordinances are instructional for the most part, ancestors have to make the personal connection likewise. The saving element is our connection to Christ. If we make the REAL connection with Christ and are sealed to Him and touched by Him gives us the covenant and ordinance directly, we then are sealed to the Fathers (Abraham, etc), we make that connection our families will then be blessed because of that connection but each one needs to make a connection. We worry about the worldly ordinances and completely miss the point as to what we are truly supposed to do. Loretta

[Elizabeth]

Of course

Further up I asked a question...let me repeat: In actuality, aren't we being sealed to the Abrahamic Covenant...thereby affording us all the blessings and promises given to him?

Also (edited to add)...weren't we all brothers and sisters in our premortal life...and that includes are children and spouses...we were first brothers and sisters before any of our earthly relationships...therefore, sealing us all into one big eternal family?

[oneClimbs]

All ordinances are contracts. The terms have to be met otherwise they are of no force. You have all these people afraid that they are going to be stuck with someone or that someone will have power over them in the next life. That's not how it works. Nobody who is baptized is forced into heaven against their will, you have to keep the terms of the covenant.

If I understand correctly, sealing is more about binding together the entire human family. Whatever "dad" you are sealed to doesn't matter so much as that you are sealed. You real dad is your heavenly Father anyway. Husbands and wives will probably be independent units in the afterlife anyway, I don't think generations will all just live in the same house.

Do you think heaven will be you having a room with your spouse in your parent's house? I don't think so. Yeah, your kids can be sealed to you, but I think that what's really happening is that they are sealed into God's family *through* you instead. It's not that in the next life you'll have this little home with bedrooms for all your kids, they are going to be adults as well, with their own kids, grandkids, etc...

I think many of us Latter-day Saints make a lot of incorrect assumptions and burden ourselves with unnecessary worry. It's good people are asking questions and that we have a platform to discuss these things. I've been thinking about really researching this more and publishing an article on it.

For the record, those who are afraid that one day they'll be in heaven and have to share a husband with multiple other women, read Jacob 2. I personally don't believe in polygamy, but that's just me. Sure we seal multiple women to one man in the temple (after they are deceased of course) but we also denied priesthood to a whole group of people based on what we thought was the right thing to do. Yeah, it's not fun, but this is a work in progress. The restoration is still coming forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, it's trying to be what it is destined to be.

I've been studying Jacob 2 a lot lately, specifically that supposed loophole in vs. 30 that some think allows for plural marriage. Well, I had some major breakthroughs a few weeks ago and then some new ones just last night. Finally, I get what that verse is saying and it is NOT a loophole for polygamy and it can be proven quite easily.

[oneClimbs]

Further up I asked a question...let me repeat: In actuality, aren't we being sealed to the Abrahamic Covenant...thereby affording us all the blessings and promises given to him?

Also (edited to add)...weren't we all brothers and sisters in our premortal life...and that includes are children and spouses...we were first brothers and sisters before any of our earthly relationships...therefore, sealing us all into one big eternal family?

I think you've said it best Natasha, we get so focused on our immediate families that we forget that we are part of something bigger.

[mchlwise]

There are a couple important things that need to be understood:

Church policy (unless, again, it has VERY recently changed) is that a brother can be sealed to more than one living woman, with clearance from the First Presidency. A sister cannot be sealed to more than one man, to be sealed a second time she must apply for a Cancellation from the First Presidency, which will only be granted when a sealing is imminent.

The other thing to understand is that nobody (in the couple) is sealed TO anybody else. Go to the temple and do some proxy sealings and listen carefully. The couple is married, then that marital unit is collectively Sealed with all kinds of stuff.

Essentially, the brother in a divorced couple is standing in as proxy for the future righteous husband of the divorced sister. He is basically holding that Sealing "umbrella" for her until she marries again and is sealed again with her new husband.

Edit to add: I mention that nobody in the couple is sealed to anybody, because in a child to parent sealing the language does seal the child TO the parents, but it goes on to say "as if" they had been born in the covenant.

It's really all about the Abrahamic covenant, and how we qualify for it. Being born to two parents who were Sealed when you were born is one way. Being Sealed later is another.

[Desert Roses]

I have been divorced and re-married. Both marriages were temple marriages. The first sealing was not cancelled before I was sealed to my current wife. The councel given was to not have the sealing cancelled until my first wife was ready to be sealed again because there were children involved. She remarried, but not in the temple, so the sealing was never officially cancelled. My understanding is that the act of getting a divorce violates the covenant so the sealing is no longer in effect anyway, and as has been already stated here, nothing is truly valid in the eternities until sealed by the holy spirit of promise.

I've also been through this. My husband and I are married in the temple, but we were both divorced before we married in 2008. As a woman, I had to get my sealing cancelled, but my husband did not although he did have to get a letter from his first wife as part of the approval process for our wedding. He is still sealed to wife #1--she is inactive and living a worldly lifestyle. Your husband's friend just has to go through an approval process. He may have a new and poorly informed bishop. :p

[Elizabeth]

Can a living person who is endowed, but not sealed to anyone, be sealed to their deceased parents who have been married in the Temple by proxy... and then would they have accomplished being sealed as required to Heavenly Fathers' family as per Abrahamic covenant.