Fifty shades of black and blue and grey?

[marc]

Lots of good stuff there, passionflower. My dad used to always say water seeks its own level. I prefer to say water seeks the level of least resistance. As for women and the down with fairy tale princess stuff, take me as I am, I see a fundamental problem, precisely because, as you say, such women who want Superman are delusional. Fairy tales are rooted in Biblical themes:

Zion/bride=The princess/fair maiden needing rescuing
Savior/bridegroom=Hero or Prince
The Harlot Babylon=Evil Stepmother or Witch
The tyrant=Ogre or Giant
Ministering angels=Fairies or secret helpers
etc

We have become a society who believes less and less in God. It's ok to settle for "take me as I am" because we've devalued ourselves so much as evidenced by the media, which we have glamorized, filling in the roles supplied for us. The Superman that women seek is fictional. There is no perfect man. He is a fantasy. So we might as well not believe that we could become a covenant people worthy of being saved by a God. I work with a lot of single moms who are raising children on their own and I see them struggle day in and day out because they chose to given themselves to men who made easy conquests of them or because some of those men, who were once decent and probably in a true sense, Superman, but because of these influences of society, they decided that seeking conquests was preferable and they abandoned their families. It has become a vicious circle that perpetuates itself and provides its own rationale.

[passionflower]

-delete-

[marc]

Your last few lines reminds of an old movie I saw decades ago starring Dustin Hoffman. It's called The Graduate and pretty much is exactly about what you summed up. By the way, I'm more a sci-fi/fantasy writer/reader myself. Since we're on the topic of "fan fiction," as Fiannan put it. I've written a number of stories, one of which is buried in this forum. I've got another story on the back burner about a coppersmith during Zedekiah's reign. I've been too preoccupied to dust it off.

[Rose Garden]

Thank you for your thoughts, passionflower. They ring true. But then again, they also remind me of issues I had with my husband.

During our marriage, I grew and developed in so many ways. I was amazed at the changes within me. As the outset, I was selfish and unloving but through the challenges of raising my children, and the heartbreak I felt when I failed with them, I changed and became patient and kind with them. I constantly sought the Lord for help and attribute these changes to his atonement. I was delighted with the changes he was making in me.

But all my husband saw was a messy house and a fat wife. I tried to do everything he asked me to and couldn't. He apparently wanted some sort of fantasy wife who looked like a movie star and catered to his every whim, even while pregnant and caring for many small children. And his every whim was quite a tall order: perfect meals, spotless house, his things picked up after him, shirts ironed, and so forth. When I tried to do all the things he wanted, I had no time to care for my children as well. My inability to please him broke my heart.

We keep bringing up the fact that the audiences for these movies are older women, those likely to have been married for some time. Perhaps the issue isn't that they want to be accepted without putting any effort into it. Perhaps it is that they deserve to be appreciated and aren't. Maybe they are tired of putting in full days of work 24/7 only to be told they aren't doing enough, they don't measure up, they haven't yet presented the image of the perfect housewife, just because they can't seem to get out of bed in the morning (after a full night of caring for an infant) to put out a full course breakfast for hubby.

It seems to me that if young girls were the ones being mainly drawn in by this stuff that we might make the case that women in general just want to be accepted for who they are without doing any work. But if we are talking about married women who are mothers, then we are talking about women who do a lot of work. Every mother does of necessity. We are not talking about lazy, star-struck young girls.

I may be off the mark, but for me, the spiritual is so powerful. I believe a husband has a great deal of ability to draw his wife up to a higher level when he does see her at a higher level. But how many can see past their personal desires for a comfortable home enough to see the value in their wives just the way they are? It takes placing the spiritual over the physical, in my opinion.

[passionflower]

Your last few lines reminds of an old movie I saw decades ago starring Dustin Hoffman. It's called The Graduate and pretty much is exactly about what you summed up. By the way, I'm more a sci-fi/fantasy writer/reader myself. Since we're on the topic of "fan fiction," as Fiannan put it. I've written a number of stories, one of which is buried in this forum. I've got another story on the back burner about a coppersmith during Zedekiah's reign. I've been too preoccupied to dust it off.

-delete-

[WhereCanITurn4Peace]

And what is the Twilight story, and why do women love it so much?

It is the story of a boring, unremarkable, untalented, plain, ordinary girl who attracts the adoration, love and attention of a near PERFECT male in a "love at first sight" kind of story. The guy in Twilight, as well as in Shades of Grey, has a very edgy exciting quality about him, and a "dark secret", but of course, his great love for miss "nobody" reforms him, and they live happily ever after.

This is the fantasy aspect of both of these novels and movies that attracts so many women to the story.( not the sexual aspects, though this has a secondary appeal ) Of course this is not reality. A woman has to be a very high value woman with great feminine qualities to attract and be worshipped by a virtual Greek God, and to inspire any reformation that might be necessary. The handsome prince wants a girl worthy to be a princess. Water seeks its own level you know.

But these stories provide women a sense of ultimate instant romantic gratification WITHOUT the work, personal development or attraction necessary to really make a romance with a "dream" guy ( and especially "reform" him) Once again, in reality, a guy with these kinds of problems that both these novels represent, would only by attracted to such a plain ordinary girl to exploit her ( and her low self esteem ). Any tries at "helping" him would not only be dangerous, but useless.

This princess like virtue that saves the day has been removed from the two particular gothic tales, Twilight and 50 Shades, and has been replaced by instant gratification.

Good points, passionflower! Thanks for that post.

Out of curiosity, what Gothic horror books would you recommend? I'm a voracious reader and would appreciate perusing some new tomes Would Dickens, Austen, and the Bronte sisters be considered authors of that genre? I thoroughly enjoy their works.


On the subject of "50 Shades of Grey", I remember it being really popular a couple years back and upon finding out that S&M was a major factor, was mystified why this was appealing to many. I personally had no desire then to read the series and still don't, but was curious why others would be so taken with it. My opinion is that there are several reasons at play:

1) Similar to what coachmarc stated, we are a wicked and idolatrous people and this is being glamorized in all kinds of ways in various
media.

2) People love a trend, whether it is worthy to be consumed/emulated or not. In other words, herd or mob mentality.

3) The following is a sensitive issue, but my perspective is this could be a reason, although slim, why some are drawn to violence/abuse
such as contained in this movie/book series....It is estimated that 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 6 boys are sexually abused before the age of 18.
A high percentage of people that are survivors of sexual/physical abuse (mainly female) will unfortunately continue that vicious and
self-destructive pattern of abuse throughout their lives unless they seek help.

I'm sure there are other motives people have for seeing this movie, but these are the major ones I could extricate from the myriad of possibilities.

[marc]

..I may be off the mark, but for me, the spiritual is so powerful. I believe a husband has a great deal of ability to draw his wife up to a higher level when he does see her at a higher level. But how many can see past their personal desires for a comfortable home enough to see the value in their wives just the way they are? It takes placing the spiritual over the physical, in my opinion.

You're spot on. I didn't see this when I first married, but because of a powerful personal revelation from the Lord, one, which I trusted, I knew I was marrying the right woman. At the time, I was very young, naive, typical male kid wanting the trophy wife. But I also had a strong spiritual foundation thanks to my mother's upbringing. It made the difference in loving my wife and growing to become the man that she deserves. We're going on 24 years of marriage now and I wouldn't trade it for all the universe. Meili, without the Lord's guidance, I would never have seen past my personal desires.

[marc]

Your last few lines reminds of an old movie I saw decades ago starring Dustin Hoffman. It's called The Graduate and pretty much is exactly about what you summed up. By the way, I'm more a sci-fi/fantasy writer/reader myself. Since we're on the topic of "fan fiction," as Fiannan put it. I've written a number of stories, one of which is buried in this forum. I've got another story on the back burner about a coppersmith during Zedekiah's reign. I've been too preoccupied to dust it off.

How interesting. I did not know that about you. So you have a story "buried" in this forum? What does this mean? Can I read it? And you must have an opinion about Peter Jackmans' (? I think that's his name) cinematic version of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit? So are you going to do anything with these stories or is it just a hobby? I am personal friends with a sci-fi writer ( we were missionary companions )

I have never seen the movie The Graduate. Now I will have to look up the story line.

Buried in this forum just means it dropped down a lot of pages over the years. I did a search and found it. I grew up a big time Star Wars nerd. Back in about 2004, I began honing my writing skills as an aspiring author. Writing original Star Wars stories is how I began. It's just a hobby. I don't have enough time or ambition to publish my work, though I've been told I should. I also have an outline for a Book of Mormon commentary, but I don't feel right about publishing it.

Here it is. I think I shared two stories. The first is an alternate story line of A New Hope and the second is just an adaptation of an old story.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26863" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for Peter Jackson, I think he did a great job with the Lord of the Rings trilogy. He should have quit there. His adaptation of the Hobbit stinks, though, in my opinion.

[WhereCanITurn4Peace]

Jezebel and coachmarc, thank you both for your deeply personal, spirit-filled and uplifting posts. The beautiful things you share are one of the reasons why I come to LDSFF :ymhug:

[larsenb]

. . . . . . On the subject of "50 Shades of Grey", I remember it being really popular a couple years back and upon finding out that S&M was a major factor, was mystified why this was appealing to many. I personally had no desire then to read the series and still don't, but was curious why others would be so taken with it.

Henry Makow would agree with you, but takes it a step further that it is indicative of society being taken over by a Satanic cult. Excerpt:

Fifty Shades of Satanism

February 13, 2015

Make no mistake, Fifty Shades of Grey invites us to engage in BD S&M: bondage-discipline-sadism & masochism. Society is being transformed into a satanic cult.

by Henry Makow Ph.D.

Sadism is "the tendency to derive pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting pain or humiliation on others." Masochism is getting pleasure from receiving pain or humiliation.

Make no mistake, Fifty Shades of Grey invites us to engage in BD S&M bondage-discipline-sadomasochism. -

See more at: http://henrymakow.com/#sthash.T4rAhW1z.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , along with other related links in the article.

[WhereCanITurn4Peace]

I feel kind of embarrassed now....i liked the twilight series. :ymblushing:

I know you will appreciate this... ;)

nelson-haha.gif (7.12 KiB) Viewed 2003 times

[Rose Garden]

..I may be off the mark, but for me, the spiritual is so powerful. I believe a husband has a great deal of ability to draw his wife up to a higher level when he does see her at a higher level. But how many can see past their personal desires for a comfortable home enough to see the value in their wives just the way they are? It takes placing the spiritual over the physical, in my opinion.

You're spot on. I didn't see this when I first married, but because of a powerful personal revelation from the Lord, one, which I trusted, I knew I was marrying the right woman. At the time, I was very young, naive, typical male kid wanting the trophy wife. But I also had a strong spiritual foundation thanks to my mother's upbringing. It made the difference in loving my wife and growing to become the man that she deserves. We're going on 24 years of marriage now and I wouldn't trade it for all the universe. Meili, without the Lord's guidance, I would never have seen past my personal desires.

I believe that there is pretty much no way a man can see this without a revelation from the Lord. I just don't think it is possible in this world to do so without spiritual guidance. I think that is one of the defining conditions on this earth--those men who are truly in tune with the Spirit and truly humble themselves before the Lord will come to learn that their wife is not there to bring them pleasure and status, but to give them an opportunity to serve and rise up to be a true leader. Thank you for sharing this, coachmarc. It warms my heart.

[marc]

Meili, on the flip side, my wife wanted a trophy husband--someone who always wore certain clothes, carried himself a certain way, provided a certain lifestyle, etc. Through a lot of patience and longsuffering on both sides, and because of our spiritual foundations, my wife and I have grown into the spouses that I believe the Lord intended.

[passionflower]

-delete-

[Rose Garden]

Meili, on the flip side, my wife wanted a trophy husband--someone who always wore certain clothes, carried himself a certain way, provided a certain lifestyle, etc. Through a lot of patience and longsuffering on both sides, and because of our spiritual foundations, my wife and I have grown into the spouses that I believe the Lord intended.

I know what I have said seems very one-sided. Women also have personal responsibility. However, I think there is heavier responsibility placed on the man when it comes to spiritual things.

When a man and woman build a life together and want to have children, they both give their bodies to the creating of it, but the woman is the one who gives 100% of her body over a long period of time to the nurturing of the child in order to bring it into the world and keep it alive. The man initially has no ability to take on that responsibility at all. All he can do it support his wife's needs during the process.

I think that when it comes to spirituality, the man plays a role that requires 100% of his spiritual self. I don't know how that plays out exactly, but I see it hinted at in the gospel. Consider the wedding ceremony in the temple where the man draws the woman through the veil. Isn't this indicating that he has the responsibility to go before and lead the way through persuasion?

A large portion of my understanding of this comes from my interactions with my children and my husband. I found that my children's behavior was almost 100% dependent upon my behavior. In other words, the level to which they acted in respect, obedience, and love toward me and others depended upon the level to which I acted toward them with respect, love, and even obedience. I needed to be obedient to my children's wishes to the extent that I could if I expected them to be obedient to mine.

The thing is, the children were never required to make a decision as to how they would react to me. They never considered whether or not they would be obedient to me or treat me with respect. They just did it. It was spontaneous in them.

I found also that as I became a softer, more childlike person, my reactions toward my husband became very childlike. When he treated me with a lack of respect, I found to my dismay that I was unable to treat him with respect, even though I desired to do so. But when he was treating me respectfully, I automatically returned the same.

If I could have made the decision to always turn the other cheek and treat my husband with respect, I would have. But my nature was changed so that I could not. There was a time I could and I did, but that time ended as I drew closer to the Lord.

That is why I place so much emphasis on the responsibility of the man. I don't want to dodge any responsibility that is mine and I don't want to excuse women's bad behavior either. But I have come to believe through my experience that men really are the spiritual leaders and that the spiritual condition of the world as a whole really is a testimony of their condition, not necessarily women's. I believe those truths are as inevitable as the truths that govern children's behavior.

My ability to affect my children the way I did was because of their natural desire to please me. On the other hand, because I did not possess a natural desire to please them, they never could convince me to change by their behavior toward me. I had to be the one to humble myself and change.

I believe women also have a natural desire to please their husbands, which husbands do not have toward their wives, and so the husband has a much better chance to persuade his wife to change than the wife has to persuade her husband to change. I think this is what is meant when Eve was told her desire would be toward her husband. I think things are set up this way as a test, to see if those who are "greater" will humble themselves and become the servants of all.

Women, unlike children, are fallen individuals and so I believe it is more difficult for a man to persuade his wife to change than it would be for a parent to persuade their child. But as I said, I believe it is still much more possible for the man to lead the woman in righteousness than vice versa. If the man does not choose to turn to Christ, the woman will have no power over him whatsoever. It is to the extent that the man humbles himself before the Lord that his wife can have a righteous influence over him.

It's a difficult to explain these things in this fallen world where we want to place individual responsibility on each person and deny the connections we have with each other. But when we realize that we really do have influence on each other, and that influence is affected strongly by stewardship which places some in leadership over others, then the principles become quite easy to understand. And "the Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever."

When you married your wife, coachmarc, you were given a woman who you deserved, who was like you. I do not know how it played out in your marriage, but I would imagine that if you had not decided to humble yourself before the Lord and submit to him, then the changes your wife made would have caused greater difficulties, not fewer. On the other hand, it just might be the changes you made that helped your wife make hers. I don't know. But what I have seen in my life leads me to believe this is possible.

[JohnnyL]

Mommy porn? Mormon connection? What's next?

http://www.people.com/article/fifty-sha ... s-fanworks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now all those mommies who took their daughters to see Jacob take his shirt off can take their daughters to this movie too. ;)

=)) =))

[WhereCanITurn4Peace]

Where can I turn for Peace:
I cannot seem to directly respond to your post, so I hope you see this down below here.

What would I suggest? Yes, the authors you do have works that could be classified as Gothic Romance/Horror.
What makes a Gothic story Gothic is usually, was defined by Horace Walpole, who wrote the first Gothic Novel: The Castle of Utranto in the 1700's. It is probably online somewhere. Then, there is the not totally well written, nevertheless a personal favorite of mine by Ann Radcliffe that gets a mention in Northanger Abbey by Jane Austen, that being " The Mysteries of Udolpho", I like this book because it portrays the true Gothic romantic female heroine. She is a person of very high standards that even her true love is not equal to. She almost doesn't marry this Prince Charming in the end because he might not good enough for her!

Bram Stoker's Dracula is another favorite of mine. This book does have some sexual overtones to it, which have been the source of its trashing over the years, each new version getting worse and worse until now all we have is sexual horror for the sake of sexual hooror. And women eating it up ( for the same reasons as I gave in my original post). But Bram Stoker was originally trying to warn the world about the evils of homosexuality when he wrote Dracula. There is a scene in the book where Van Helsing and Count Dracula are talking and this dialogue was taken straight out of transcripts of a therapy session between a homosexual and a psychiatrist. Frankenstein by Mary Shelley is not much like any of the screen adaptations by the same name. I was brought to tears when I read it. Mary Shelley was married to the poet Percy B Shelley and they had experimented with "free love" . Frankenstein was basically a commentary on the follies and disappointments of sexual freedom outside of marraige and family life. She was basically saying " throw morals out the front door, and you get a monster coming through the back" ( the unconnected child ) Like I said, it is very very sad
but really worth reading.

Thank you for the thoughtful response.

I do remember Henry, his sister, and Catherine in "Northanger Abbey" discussing "The Mysteries of Udolpho" and wondered at the time what it was all about. Thanks for reminding me, I'll have to look into it. It's cliché, but "Sense and Sensibility" and" Pride and Prejudice" are my favorite Austen tales. Followed closely by "Emma" and "Persuasion". "Persuasion" is actually connected to "Northanger Abbey" not only because the two books were originally bound up in one volume and published together, but also because both stories are set partially in Bath (the city du jour during the Georgian era) with which Austen herself was very knowledgeable of, having resided there from 1801 to 1805.

I'm familiar with Stoker's "Dracula" and somewhat with the Dubliner himself...the book is interesting and profoundly encapsulates Victorian views, mores, and attitudes. That bit about homosexuality is fascinating because I've read or seen somewhere that Stoker was possibly homosexual, although I can see how situations could be misconstrued when viewed through a modern lens. Today's cultural norms are vastly different from the way men related to each other during the Victorian period in which he lived.

The Frankenstein story is well-known to me, but I'm sure what I've seen/observed are disparate versions of Shelley's novel. Will have to keep an eye out for that as well.

Really enjoyed this discussion...maybe we could start our own book thread and see what everyone can contribute.

[passionflower]

Where can I turn for Peace:
I cannot seem to directly respond to your post, so I hope you see this down below here.

What would I suggest? Yes, the authors you do have works that could be classified as Gothic Romance/Horror.
What makes a Gothic story Gothic is usually, was defined by Horace Walpole, who wrote the first Gothic Novel: The Castle of Utranto in the 1700's. It is probably online somewhere. Then, there is the not totally well written, nevertheless a personal favorite of mine by Ann Radcliffe that gets a mention in Northanger Abbey by Jane Austen, that being " The Mysteries of Udolpho", I like this book because it portrays the true Gothic romantic female heroine. She is a person of very high standards that even her true love is not equal to. She almost doesn't marry this Prince Charming in the end because he might not good enough for her!

Bram Stoker's Dracula is another favorite of mine. This book does have some sexual overtones to it, which have been the source of its trashing over the years, each new version getting worse and worse until now all we have is sexual horror for the sake of sexual hooror. And women eating it up ( for the same reasons as I gave in my original post). But Bram Stoker was originally trying to warn the world about the evils of homosexuality when he wrote Dracula. There is a scene in the book where Van Helsing and Count Dracula are talking and this dialogue was taken straight out of transcripts of a therapy session between a homosexual and a psychiatrist. Frankenstein by Mary Shelley is not much like any of the screen adaptations by the same name. I was brought to tears when I read it. Mary Shelley was married to the poet Percy B Shelley and they had experimented with "free love" . Frankenstein was basically a commentary on the follies and disappointments of sexual freedom outside of marraige and family life. She was basically saying " throw morals out the front door, and you get a monster coming through the back" ( the unconnected child ) Like I said, it is very very sad
but really worth reading.

Thank you for the thoughtful response.

I do remember Henry, his sister, and Catherine in "Northanger Abbey" discussing "The Mysteries of Udolpho" and wondered at the time what it was all about. Thanks for reminding me, I'll have to look into it. It's cliché, but "Sense and Sensibility" and" Pride and Prejudice" are my favorite Austen tales. Followed closely by "Emma" and "Persuasion". "Persuasion" is actually connected to "Northanger Abbey" not only because the two books were originally bound up in one volume and published together, but also because both stories are set partially in Bath (the city du jour during the Georgian era) with which Austen herself was very knowledgeable of, having resided there from 1801 to 1805.

I'm familiar with Stoker's "Dracula" and somewhat with the Dubliner himself...the book is interesting and profoundly encapsulates Victorian views, mores, and attitudes. That bit about homosexuality is fascinating because I've read or seen somewhere that Stoker was possibly homosexual, although I can see how situations could be misconstrued when viewed through a modern lens. Today's cultural norms are vastly different from the way men related to each other during the Victorian period in which he lived.

The Frankenstein story is well-known to me, but I'm sure what I've seen/observed are disparate versions of Shelley's novel. Will have to keep an eye out for that as well.

Really enjoyed this discussion...maybe we could start our own book thread and see what everyone can contribute.

-delete-

[WhereCanITurn4Peace]

Actually, my husband and I just attended the Regency Ball and dinner( for Valentines' Day), put on by the Jane Austen Society. It was announced during the evening that there will be a Jane Austen Convention in Salt Lake City, which will be held for three days in the summer of
2016. Just thought you might like to know. I'm certainly going to attend. There will be another ball on one of the evenings. These are events that are truly " of good report and praiseworthy" and should be sought after and supported. I wish we could have more of these events in my own area.

I first time I read Dracula was when I was 17 and ill with a very bad flu virus. Being really bedridden, bored and all alone home, I got my Bram Stoker Dracula book, illiustrated will many stills from the 1931 movie with Bela Lugosi(which I had never seen ). So I begin reading, and become so engrossed--the way this novel is written is pretty intense!-and could not put it down until I was done, The morning had turned into evening at this point, I was still alone home, and in a total state of terror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( I had lived with a poltergeist for 3 1/2 years during my childhood, and some of the scenes were reminiscent of a few of my "experiences" there. ( My brother has written a book about this, and it's for sale on line). So there I am, with the sun gone down, laying in my bed very ill, in a big old victorian house, all alone....I was really REALLY scared! Anyway, as Mina Harker said, "I commenced to get drowsy" and decided to get up to LOCK the dormer window my bed was under before I fell asleep.
By the time I awoke, the sun was up. I am still alone, because my parents have already gone to work. I am still in a bad and agitated state of mind, and very sick. I get struggle up, though, and get to the bathroom, and of course, look at myself in the mirror. I literally gasped, screamed, and nearly fainted. THERE WAS BLOOD DRIPPING DOWN THE CORNERS OF MY MOUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I instinctively felt all around my throat (didn't dare look!) and after reeling on the bathroom vanity for a minute or two, I finally got my oats together a bit, and took another look at my mouth. I opened it, and it was full of blood. I also wore braces. After taking a few more breathes, I did something smart, and decided to call my orthodontist. He told me that this bad virus going around had gotten into my gums via the braces, formed pocket of pus, which caused all this bleeding.
I laugh about this experience now, and even though I credit it as being my favorite, and just about perfectly written as a gothic horror novel could be. I have never read that book again to this day!
It's a funny thing, too, that as I get on in years, people are always remarking on my youthful appearance. I never seem to age. "What is my secret?" they ask eagerly. " I don't know, really," I answer. " It must be my religious beliefs, because "I never drink......wine"....

How wonderful! Did you and your husband have a good time? Were you required to dress in Georgian era type clothing? Was the food presented that of the period? Lol... Sorry, I'm probably asking too many questions, but I would so love to attend a function like that. I'm afraid my husband really isn't interested in history or literary pursuits. The nearest thing to a history gala that I've dragged him to is our local Renaissance Festival and I believe he goes because of the humongous turkey legs they serve! I really shouldn't complain though, he is an amazing husband who loves to make me happy (and I, him). We just have different ideas of what constitutes enjoyable entertainment. I agree with you that there should be more events/gatherings/amusements that are of good report and praiseworthy.

That is quite an experience you had at 17! Definitely a noteworthy incident to recount ...thank you for sharing, I could really picture it unfolding in my mind as I read. "I never drink......wine..." haha, what a perfect ending!

[passionflower]

Actually, my husband and I just attended the Regency Ball and dinner( for Valentines' Day), put on by the Jane Austen Society. It was announced during the evening that there will be a Jane Austen Convention in Salt Lake City, which will be held for three days in the summer of
2016. Just thought you might like to know. I'm certainly going to attend. There will be another ball on one of the evenings. These are events that are truly " of good report and praiseworthy" and should be sought after and supported. I wish we could have more of these events in my own area.

I first time I read Dracula was when I was 17 and ill with a very bad flu virus. Being really bedridden, bored and all alone home, I got my Bram Stoker Dracula book, illiustrated will many stills from the 1931 movie with Bela Lugosi(which I had never seen ). So I begin reading, and become so engrossed--the way this novel is written is pretty intense!-and could not put it down until I was done, The morning had turned into evening at this point, I was still alone home, and in a total state of terror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( I had lived with a poltergeist for 3 1/2 years during my childhood, and some of the scenes were reminiscent of a few of my "experiences" there. ( My brother has written a book about this, and it's for sale on line). So there I am, with the sun gone down, laying in my bed very ill, in a big old victorian house, all alone....I was really REALLY scared! Anyway, as Mina Harker said, "I commenced to get drowsy" and decided to get up to LOCK the dormer window my bed was under before I fell asleep.
By the time I awoke, the sun was up. I am still alone, because my parents have already gone to work. I am still in a bad and agitated state of mind, and very sick. I get struggle up, though, and get to the bathroom, and of course, look at myself in the mirror. I literally gasped, screamed, and nearly fainted. THERE WAS BLOOD DRIPPING DOWN THE CORNERS OF MY MOUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I instinctively felt all around my throat (didn't dare look!) and after reeling on the bathroom vanity for a minute or two, I finally got my oats together a bit, and took another look at my mouth. I opened it, and it was full of blood. I also wore braces. After taking a few more breathes, I did something smart, and decided to call my orthodontist. He told me that this bad virus going around had gotten into my gums via the braces, formed pocket of pus, which caused all this bleeding.
I laugh about this experience now, and even though I credit it as being my favorite, and just about perfectly written as a gothic horror novel could be. I have never read that book again to this day!
It's a funny thing, too, that as I get on in years, people are always remarking on my youthful appearance. I never seem to age. "What is my secret?" they ask eagerly. " I don't know, really," I answer. " It must be my religious beliefs, because "I never drink......wine"....

How wonderful! Did you and your husband have a good time? Were you required to dress in Georgian era type clothing? Was the food presented that of the period? Lol... Sorry, I'm probably asking too many questions, but I would so love to attend a function like that. I'm afraid my husband really isn't interested in history or literary pursuits. The nearest thing to a history gala that I've dragged him to is our local Renaissance Festival and I believe he goes because of the humongous turkey legs they serve! I really shouldn't complain though, he is an amazing husband who loves to make me happy (and I, him). We just have different ideas of what constitutes enjoyable entertainment. I agree with you that there should be more events/gatherings/amusements that are of good report and praiseworthy.

That is quite an experience you had at 17! Definitely a noteworthy incident to recount ...thank you for sharing, I could really picture it unfolding in my mind as I read. "I never drink......wine..." haha, what a perfect ending!

Being a history buff or bookworm is NOT required for entry into the Jane Austen Regency Ball, so tell hubby to have no fear, he would not be out of place there. Lots of regular guys, who once thought they'd rather be dead than dancing at a ball like this, and who only reluctantly agreed to go because their wife begged them, bribed them, or said "This is all I want for Valentines' Day, you won't have to do anything else..." eagerly give testimonials over the dinner table about how cool this Ball turned out to be, and they come every year now(And dress to kill for it, speaking of costumes) But if this does historically interest you, there is nothing like dressing up like people of a different era, adopting their manners, eating their food, and most of all, dancing their dances, to give you a real feel of what these people were like.

Thanks for liking my story.

[Rose Garden]

Actually, my husband and I just attended the Regency Ball and dinner( for Valentines' Day), put on by the Jane Austen Society. It was announced during the evening that there will be a Jane Austen Convention in Salt Lake City, which will be held for three days in the summer of
2016. Just thought you might like to know. I'm certainly going to attend. There will be another ball on one of the evenings. These are events that are truly " of good report and praiseworthy" and should be sought after and supported. I wish we could have more of these events in my own area.

I first time I read Dracula was when I was 17 and ill with a very bad flu virus. Being really bedridden, bored and all alone home, I got my Bram Stoker Dracula book, illiustrated will many stills from the 1931 movie with Bela Lugosi(which I had never seen ). So I begin reading, and become so engrossed--the way this novel is written is pretty intense!-and could not put it down until I was done, The morning had turned into evening at this point, I was still alone home, and in a total state of terror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( I had lived with a poltergeist for 3 1/2 years during my childhood, and some of the scenes were reminiscent of a few of my "experiences" there. ( My brother has written a book about this, and it's for sale on line). So there I am, with the sun gone down, laying in my bed very ill, in a big old victorian house, all alone....I was really REALLY scared! Anyway, as Mina Harker said, "I commenced to get drowsy" and decided to get up to LOCK the dormer window my bed was under before I fell asleep.
By the time I awoke, the sun was up. I am still alone, because my parents have already gone to work. I am still in a bad and agitated state of mind, and very sick. I get struggle up, though, and get to the bathroom, and of course, look at myself in the mirror. I literally gasped, screamed, and nearly fainted. THERE WAS BLOOD DRIPPING DOWN THE CORNERS OF MY MOUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I instinctively felt all around my throat (didn't dare look!) and after reeling on the bathroom vanity for a minute or two, I finally got my oats together a bit, and took another look at my mouth. I opened it, and it was full of blood. I also wore braces. After taking a few more breathes, I did something smart, and decided to call my orthodontist. He told me that this bad virus going around had gotten into my gums via the braces, formed pocket of pus, which caused all this bleeding.
I laugh about this experience now, and even though I credit it as being my favorite, and just about perfectly written as a gothic horror novel could be. I have never read that book again to this day!
It's a funny thing, too, that as I get on in years, people are always remarking on my youthful appearance. I never seem to age. "What is my secret?" they ask eagerly. " I don't know, really," I answer. " It must be my religious beliefs, because "I never drink......wine"....

Oh, my, what a scary experience!

Have you ever read Phantom, the book about the Phantom of the Opera story? I've read it twice. Couldn't put it down both times and read it within 24 hours of starting it. It's a rather thick book, so it took all that 24 hours both times. I would love to read it again, but never did after I had children, because I didn't think they could go without eating for that long . . .

[JohnnyL]

I first time I read Dracula was when I was 17 and ill with a very bad flu virus. Being really bedridden, bored and all alone home, I got my Bram Stoker Dracula book, illiustrated will many stills from the 1931 movie with Bela Lugosi(which I had never seen ). So I begin reading, and become so engrossed--the way this novel is written is pretty intense!-and could not put it down until I was done, The morning had turned into evening at this point, I was still alone home, and in a total state of terror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( I had lived with a poltergeist for 3 1/2 years during my childhood, and some of the scenes were reminiscent of a few of my "experiences" there. ( My brother has written a book about this, and it's for sale on line). So there I am, with the sun gone down, laying in my bed very ill, in a big old victorian house, all alone....I was really REALLY scared! Anyway, as Mina Harker said, "I commenced to get drowsy" and decided to get up to LOCK the dormer window my bed was under before I fell asleep.
By the time I awoke, the sun was up. I am still alone, because my parents have already gone to work. I am still in a bad and agitated state of mind, and very sick. I get struggle up, though, and get to the bathroom, and of course, look at myself in the mirror. I literally gasped, screamed, and nearly fainted. THERE WAS BLOOD DRIPPING DOWN THE CORNERS OF MY MOUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I instinctively felt all around my throat (didn't dare look!) and after reeling on the bathroom vanity for a minute or two, I finally got my oats together a bit, and took another look at my mouth. I opened it, and it was full of blood. I also wore braces. After taking a few more breathes, I did something smart, and decided to call my orthodontist. He told me that this bad virus going around had gotten into my gums via the braces, formed pocket of pus, which caused all this bleeding.
I laugh about this experience now, and even though I credit it as being my favorite, and just about perfectly written as a gothic horror novel could be. I have never read that book again to this day!
It's a funny thing, too, that as I get on in years, people are always remarking on my youthful appearance. I never seem to age. "What is my secret?" they ask eagerly. " I don't know, really," I answer. " It must be my religious beliefs, because "I never drink......wine"....

:)) :)) Great story, that must have been pretty freaky!

[JohnnyL]

BTW, parents and Sunday school teachers, don't be surprised if your young teenager knows what SM is... ;(

I had a talk yesterday with the children about 50 Shades, Twilight, etc. It went well.

Thanks!

[JohnnyL]

I know what I have said seems very one-sided. Women also have personal responsibility. However, I think there is heavier responsibility placed on the man when it comes to spiritual things.

When a man and woman build a life together and want to have children, they both give their bodies to the creating of it, but the woman is the one who gives 100% of her body over a long period of time to the nurturing of the child in order to bring it into the world and keep it alive. The man initially has no ability to take on that responsibility at all. All he can do it support his wife's needs during the process.

I think that when it comes to spirituality, the man plays a role that requires 100% of his spiritual self. I don't know how that plays out exactly, but I see it hinted at in the gospel. Consider the wedding ceremony in the temple where the man draws the woman through the veil. Isn't this indicating that he has the responsibility to go before and lead the way through persuasion?

I found also that as I became a softer, more childlike person, my reactions toward my husband became very childlike. When he treated me with a lack of respect, I found to my dismay that I was unable to treat him with respect, even though I desired to do so. But when he was treating me respectfully, I automatically returned the same.

If I could have made the decision to always turn the other cheek and treat my husband with respect, I would have. But my nature was changed so that I could not. There was a time I could and I did, but that time ended as I drew closer to the Lord.

That is why I place so much emphasis on the responsibility of the man. I don't want to dodge any responsibility that is mine and I don't want to excuse women's bad behavior either. But I have come to believe through my experience that men really are the spiritual leaders and that the spiritual condition of the world as a whole really is a testimony of their condition, not necessarily women's. I believe those truths are as inevitable as the truths that govern children's behavior.

My ability to affect my children the way I did was because of their natural desire to please me. On the other hand, because I did not possess a natural desire to please them, they never could convince me to change by their behavior toward me. I had to be the one to humble myself and change.

I believe women also have a natural desire to please their husbands, which husbands do not have toward their wives, and so the husband has a much better chance to persuade his wife to change than the wife has to persuade her husband to change. I think this is what is meant when Eve was told her desire would be toward her husband. I think things are set up this way as a test, to see if those who are "greater" will humble themselves and become the servants of all.

Women, unlike children, are fallen individuals and so I believe it is more difficult for a man to persuade his wife to change than it would be for a parent to persuade their child. But as I said, I believe it is still much more possible for the man to lead the woman in righteousness than vice versa. If the man does not choose to turn to Christ, the woman will have no power over him whatsoever. It is to the extent that the man humbles himself before the Lord that his wife can have a righteous influence over him.

When you married your wife, coachmarc, you were given a woman who you deserved, who was like you. I do not know how it played out in your marriage, but I would imagine that if you had not decided to humble yourself before the Lord and submit to him, then the changes your wife made would have caused greater difficulties, not fewer. On the other hand, it just might be the changes you made that helped your wife make hers. I don't know. But what I have seen in my life leads me to believe this is possible.

I think I disagree with a lot in here, though I've been exposed to it now. ;) Maybe it's just cultural, but... I don't see this from one-way. I think too much feminism has turned it around a lot. I know many men who try to lead well, but it's easier to herd rabbits than try to lead some wives. For many, it's "my way or divorce (and your money and the kids)". I politely taught one sister who was always complaining about her marriage and husband about how to follow her husband, and they were very happy--for two weeks. Then it was back to "old ways". Many women have lots of messed up ideas about what "righteous husband" means. If she does not humble herself, forget trying to have a righteous influence over her.

[Rose Garden]

Certainly I did not mean to imply that a righteous man would be guaranteed to have his wife follow him. My main point is that I believe a man has a better chance at softening his wife than a woman does at softening her husband. If that is true, then though we struggle with the difficulty of dealing with fallen spouses, we will have a firmer foundation to stand on if we understand these things.

If a man with a hardened wife comes to believe these things, but still is unable to influence his wife, then the responsibility is on her, not him. But if he rejects these principles without seeking to become the type of leader who can persuade his wife to follow him, then he can make no claim before the Lord for justice. He will never qualify for a humble wife if he himself is not humble. Because of this, I think it would be important for a man to discover if these things are true.