STAKE CONFERENCE--Tithing

[Obrien]

Sadly, doing a little late elementary school math is revealing.

$6,000 - Cost to adopt a Liahona Stake for a year
86- at my last count, the number of Stakes ready to be adopted
$516,000 - total cost to fund LCF's needs for these stakes this year.


$1,500,000,000 - Shadow's admitted cost for the mall project.
2,906 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted

5,000,000,000 - Col. Flagg's estimated cost for the City Creek Development
9,690 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted
X( X( X( :-w :-w :-w

[Steve Clark]

Sadly, doing a little late elementary school math is revealing.

$6,000 - Cost to adopt a Liahona Stake for a year
86- at my last count, the number of Stakes ready to be adopted
$516,000 - total cost to fund LCF's needs for these stakes this year.


$1,500,000,000 - Shadow's admitted cost for the mall project.
2,906 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted

5,000,000,000 - Col. Flagg's estimated cost for the City Creek Development
9,690 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted
X( X( X( :-w :-w :-w

[sarcasm]But these weren't tithing funds![/sarcasm]

[jbalm]

Obrien,

What's your imputed inflation rate?

[Obrien]

I said simple elementary school math, not all those fancified ROI TVM calculations. I know my limits.

[Obrien]

No one's forcing you to stay, toots.

[samizdat]

According to the report I saw on Mexico's LDS Church patrimony, which has been garnering interest also in the PROCESO magazine (a magazine that talks about many conspiracies) the LDS Church was the first (and up to now the ONLY) religious organization that has come out and let it be known what their patrimony is.

Makes me wonder how much the Catholics have stored up in Mexico (WINK WINK). Also makes me wonder of the patrimony of the LDS Church in the USA considering they have six times the congregations and multiple land tracts.

There hasn't been any push as far as I can see from the members to let them know where all the tithing is going to. But the LDS Church, like many other religious organizations including the Catholic Church, pay their taxes to Hacienda.

Those of you that donate to LCF are doing a good service. The LDS Church also has multiple humanitarian projects in Mexico and in other countries.

It is condescending to say that the tithing money doesn't go to the poor and it is disingenous to say that it goes to refurbishing malls and luxury condos. The Church does SO MUCH for the poor, but in the same spirit that Jesus had when he told His disciples: Don't let your right hand know what your left is doing (and vice versa) it is rare that you hear of these projects unless you go to the Mormon News website and Google Translate all the news from multiple areas of the world. There are now nearly a hundred countries where this access is available, and they show exactly what they are doing.

If only you knew.

[Tetraman]

Sadly, doing a little late elementary school math is revealing.

$6,000 - Cost to adopt a Liahona Stake for a year
86- at my last count, the number of Stakes ready to be adopted
$516,000 - total cost to fund LCF's needs for these stakes this year.


$1,500,000,000 - Shadow's admitted cost for the mall project.
2,906 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted

5,000,000,000 - Col. Flagg's estimated cost for the City Creek Development
9,690 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted
X( X( X( :-w :-w :-w

Sadly it reveals only what you want it to. Not one of us knows the beginning from the end, save only God. There are too many missing variables to the equation to know what the end result will be. Who will be helped/hurt in the long run, to what extent?

[samizdat]

Sadly, doing a little late elementary school math is revealing.

$6,000 - Cost to adopt a Liahona Stake for a year
86- at my last count, the number of Stakes ready to be adopted
$516,000 - total cost to fund LCF's needs for these stakes this year.


$1,500,000,000 - Shadow's admitted cost for the mall project.
2,906 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted

5,000,000,000 - Col. Flagg's estimated cost for the City Creek Development
9,690 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted
X( X( X( :-w :-w :-w

Sadly it reveals only what you want it to. Not one of us knows the beginning from the end, save only God. There are too many missing variables to the equation to know what the end result will be. Who will be helped/hurt in the long run, to what extent?

You raise a valid point. We have to think with the end in mind.

[Obrien]

Sadly, doing a little late elementary school math is revealing.

$6,000 - Cost to adopt a Liahona Stake for a year
86- at my last count, the number of Stakes ready to be adopted
$516,000 - total cost to fund LCF's needs for these stakes this year.


$1,500,000,000 - Shadow's admitted cost for the mall project.
2,906 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted

5,000,000,000 - Col. Flagg's estimated cost for the City Creek Development
9,690 - number of years LCF could serve the stakes ready to be adopted
X( X( X( :-w :-w :-w

Sadly it reveals only what you want it to. Not one of us knows the beginning from the end, save only God. There are too many missing variables to the equation to know what the end result will be. Who will be helped/hurt in the long run, to what extent?

I agree, my childish presentation does not reveal the end from the beginning. Of course, that was not my intent. If I wanted to do that, I'd go dig up my interpreters, my big hat and finish translating the other 2/3rds of the plates...

[Robert Sinclair]

I really think if everyone was to focus on the original intent of the tithing of the increase of the children of Israel, and how these tithes were to be brought to the bishops of their day, the first born of the tribe of Levi who were the literal decendants of Aaron, to distribute these unto the poor and needy and the stranger as well as the last of the fields and vineyards gleanings, one could see how the feasting of the poor and needy has been gone away from. Inasmuch as "Tithes and Offerings" were for the Latter Day Saints to be a "Feast Of Fat Things" required for the poor and needy, see D&C 58.

This requirement that the Latter Day Saints might be honored to bear testimony of this supper of the Lord unto which all nations shall be invited to do the same.

That the day of the power of God comes, where the poor and the lame, the blind, and the deaf, would come in to the marriage supper of the Lamb of God, prepared for this great day.

So look to the embracing of the celestial law given of God and of the requirements of being equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly for laying the foundation of Zion, for not only food and for raiment; but for houses and for lands as well, with covenants and deeds that cannot be broken, sufficient for the support of the poor and needy Saints among you. ♡ ♡

A serious review by The Council of the Disposition of Tithes ought to be considered of finally acknowledging this error of spending the money first on lands and building buildings for the worshipping of God, and return to the original intent for this requirement of God for the poor, which though his Scriptures written given us, manifest that this is his will and commandment to the church. ♡ ♡

Just weeping and howling and sounding the alarm and blowing the trumpet in Zion about this perversion of equity and of the law of God, that the old men and administers of the law of God and the Tithes and Offerings consecrated, might just give ear and consider: as is written in the book of Joel:

Has this perversion of equity and the justice of God been in our day and time, and even in the days of our fathers?

Yes, yes it has.

Time to return to keep the requirements of God given for taking care of the poor and needy Saints among us, first and last of our firstfruits and of our gleanings. ♡ ♡

Yes, of seeking for the truth in all humility and love one for another as the Gospel requires. ♡ ♡

[worthit]

Found the answer to this one. The church incorporated, which puts the management of affairs under government control. As a 501-3c it has restrictions on choice of how to handle money. "The church may not use in-kind donations, or cash, or it will be suspected of "money laundering." All books and records must be made available for IRS inspection at all times.

It would also define increase the same as the IRS fiat of income.

[samizdat]

Found the answer to this one. The church incorporated, which puts the management of affairs under government control. As a 501-3c it has restrictions on choice of how to handle money. "The church may not use in-kind donations, or cash, or it will be suspected of "money laundering." All books and records must be made available for IRS inspection at all times.

It would also define increase the same as the IRS fiat of income.

If you look at the quote from Joseph F. Smith (the original post) this was done BEFORE the IRS had even been formed!

[worthit]

yes, but forces that brought it about, and the incorporation of the church were done at the same time, gratis of the church leader's having used church property and businesses as a source of generous funding and debt collateral.

[freedomforall]

For those having an issue with the church buying property or building structures other than chapels and temples...look at this:

D&C 42:35
35 And for the purpose of purchasing lands for the public benefit of the church, and building houses of worship, and building up of the New Jerusalem which is hereafter to be revealed—

The question is...what does "purchasing lands for the public benefit" mean? Because then comes..and...building houses of worship.

Could the City Creek Mall be considered public benefit? Or does public benefit mean something else entirely? If so, what?

[Robert Sinclair]

My dear family members, Re- 42:35,

look at what is written in verse 32 and verse 33, and see that these things were forbidden to be done until after becoming equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly, by seeing all has sufficient for their wants and needs, and then with the "residue" after that, yes only after was the "residue" to be used for the purchasing of lands or the building of buildings for the public benefit of the church and for the further worshipping of God. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

We could take this to "60 Minutes" to investigate and tell the truth or in any court of Justice in the land or among any of the Jewish elders or lawyers and they could tell you this is true. Equal first, purchasing of lands and building buildings thereafter with the residue.

Nothing but the truth. ♡ ♡