STAKE CONFERENCE--Tithing

[marktheshark]

marktheshark:

Some do not feel as you do so if you feel so inclined please skip my posts so that others who do enjoy my continued postings can keep reading them. ♡ ♡

Thanks. ♡ ♡

See! That's the ticket! You made your point without the extra fluff.

Btw, I agree that we do need to care for the poor. Anyone who disagrees is not a disciple of Christ. It should be a priority and there should be greater efforts made.

But, accusing the church of abusing tithing funds doesn't sit well with me. Implying they do not know the will of the Lord concerning it also doesn't sit well with me.

[Steve Clark]

marktheshark:

Some do not feel as you do so if you feel so inclined please skip my posts so that others who do enjoy my continued postings can keep reading them. ♡ ♡

Thanks. ♡ ♡

See! That's the ticket! You made your point without the extra fluff.

Btw, I agree that we do need to care for the poor. Anyone who disagrees is not a disciple of Christ. It should be a priority and there should be greater efforts made.

But, accusing the church of abusing tithing funds doesn't sit well with me. Implying they do not know the will of the Lord concerning it also doesn't sit well with me.

Good. It shouldn't sit well with you.

[samizdat]

I still haven't seen where the Church is abusing tithing funds. I just don't see it.

You mention a mall but the authorities never said that tithing was used to build the mall. Au contraire, they said that tithing was NOT used.

Here in Mexico the patrimony of the Church is approximately 2 billion dollars. Half of those are on properties and the other half on stock options, according to a recent report. Keep in mind that the Church has 2,000 wards and branches in Mexico, one MTC that was a local high school, one high school in Chihuahua, and 13 temples. Also keep in mind that there are a couple of campgrounds in addition to the buildings already mentioned. The Church in Mexico also supports an academy for the creation of businesses and has the Perpetual Education Fund there too.

I consider it fortunate that ONLY IN MEXICO, the Church has 1 billion cash on hand to continue building up the Kingdom of God in the way that the leaders see fit. And there are multiple humanitarian projects that the Church has here plus employment centers and bishops storehouses in areas where the Church is well established.

[Robert Sinclair]

To tell the truth any who have followed my posts can see how even I received enlightenment as time has gone on and I myself gain one more little precept by precept just by taking and thinking about these things.

The thought of firstfruits and gleaning for examples of Tithes original intent of God of the first and best as well as the last of your fields and vineyards for example came as I pondered upon where was the original intent of Tithes could be found.

So that I could post about it in a manner that could easily be understood. ♡ ♡

And I know it doesn't sit well and it is troubling, but look into the Scriptures written and see that's what is written. ♡ ♡

Tithes were to be used for the poor at the first and last, and now they are not, and Malachi and Hosea and others have said this should trouble us, and Enoch has said that the Twelve and Seventy Shepherds would destroy all the blind sheep, and this also is troubling. I am only trying to help bring this to light as God has said to do to help, as God has said, and not to harm. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

God's law is there to be read by all, and it doesn't take a prophet to understand what is written, even Joseph Smith as a child could understand what he was reading about in the Scriptures written.

And God has said to weep and howl and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion about the perversion of equity in the fields and in the vineyards.

To be equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly also a little child can understand that is homeless with its parents who are oppressed and yoked and burdened with abject poverty, when they look upon their neighbors who own their own homes and vacation homes as well, while they have nothing.

So there is much to weep and howl and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion about as God has said to do.

Do as God has said to do and be glad you did. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

Remember please that nothing short of keeping the fullness of the gospel is acceptable to God as he has said. ♡ ♡

[jbalm]

Mexico must be one of the sensible countries that doesn't let non-profits hide their books.

[freedomforall]

I don't think any of us worrying about, complaining about, stewing about how the church uses tithing funds, and making accusations sets well with God either.
God requireth a willing heart and mind, for without this tithing is paid in vain. It is as though the money was retained by the giver.

2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Moroni 7:8
8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God

Prov. 15:8
8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Christ suffered pain, shedding of blood, torment and anguish for each and every person on earth, all willingly. Did He withhold the atonement from the individuals He knew would mock and scourge Him? Or the people that would turn their backs to Him? Does He say within Himself something like, for example, "so n' so used my name in vain three times last week so he better not come crawling to me for forgiveness", or, "so n' so is paying his tithes begrudgingly and then complains constantly as to where it is spent, so he better not expect much out of me either?" Or are His arms outstretched to all who will come to Him and be saved?
Therefore, is ten% of our income so much to ask from us. Shouldn't we pay it with outstretched arms and not worry about where it goes? Giving and taking, having or not having a hard heart, a good or bad attitude and being willing is a two way street, God does withhold blessings from those who just plain do not have their heart into it. But if we want blessings from God we have to repent and act accordingly in willingly obeying his commandments.

D&C 64:34-36
34 Behold, the Lord requireth the heart and a willing mind; and the willing and obedient shall eat the good of the land of Zion in these last days.
35 And the rebellious shall be cut off out of the land of Zion, and shall be sent away, and shall not inherit the land.
36 For, verily I say that the rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim, wherefore they shall be plucked out.

D&C 97:8
8 Verily I say unto you, all among them who know their hearts are honest, and are broken, and their spirits contrite, and are willing to observe their covenants by sacrifice—yea, every sacrifice which I, the Lord, shall command—they are accepted of me.

2 Cor. 8:12
12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

1 Chr. 29:9
9 Then the people rejoiced, for that they offered willingly, because with perfect heart they offered willingly to the Lord: and David the king also rejoiced with great joy.

[Robert Sinclair]

It sets perfectly with the will of God to sound the alarm, as God is the one who has said to weep and howl and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion, for the perversion of equity. ♡ ♡

Know you not that to remain silent on the matter when he has said to sound the alarm and weep and howl and blow the trumpet in Zion, is to not do as God has said to do.

Better to do as God has said to fullfill his purposes, and to do it with love in your heart, than to hearken unto the spirits of legions that say do it not, worry not, for all is well in Zion, all is well, all is well, all is well.

All is not well, and you are to raise your voice to bring this to light, of the perversion of equity in the vineyard and in the fields, as is written in the book of Joel, of even the bark being stripped off the branches, and of the barrenness of equity and justice and righteousness and goodness and purity of heart.

Why keep the bride hidden in the closet?

Or the light of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ hidden where it can't be seen by others as a light upon a hill?

Yes you should definitely worry, and be alarmed, read what Enoch has said shall happen to the Twelve and Seventy Shepherds and the blind sheep in the latter days.

Tithes which from their foundation were specifically for the poor first and foremost, are being robbed from the poor to build buildings first, and purchase vast tract of land as was forbidden before being equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly.

Decisions, decisions to be made in the valley of decision.

What to do? ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

How much better to be known of the world that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly by their own freewill?

Righteousness would then begin to spread across the whole earth.

No better missionary work can be done, than to keep the commandments of God given to his beloved son Jesus Christ perfectly, as is written in the book of Jacob where the laborers kept "all" of the commandments of God. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

And again Tithes original intent is to be used first and foremost before even one penny is spent on buildings or public benefit lands for welfare farms towards getting the people to become equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly. ♡ ♡

Firstfruits and the best for the poor for distribution by the Bishops of the day the Levite tribe.

Who even to this very day have the right, if they are of this lineage to sit in the office of the Bishop in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

And someday soon they will once again, and offer up these Tithes to the poor and needy among us in righteousness as it is written. ♡ ♡

[freedomforall]

And again Tithes original intent is to be used first and foremost before even one penny is spent on buildings or public benefit lands for welfare farms towards getting the people to become equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly. ♡ ♡

Firstfruits and the best for the poor for distribution by the Bishops of the day the Levite tribe.

Who even to this very day have the right, if they are of this lineage to sit in the office of the Bishop in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

And someday soon they will once again, and offer up these Tithes to the poor and needy among us in righteousness as it is written. ♡ ♡

Say what?

[Robert Sinclair]

Doctrine and Covenants section 13.

Read and see, it is only "one verse". ♡ ♡

See also D&C 68:16-21. ♡ ♡

Aaron is of the tribe of Levi, with the right to distribute the "Tithes" to the poor and needy among us. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

How will it look if someone of the Jews who understands the Scriptures written and is a literal firstborn son of the tribe of Levi, and is converted to Christ, claims his right to distribute the Tithes to the poor and needy among us, to see that we are equal in our temporal things, and this not grudgingly, is told sorry, the Tithes are not exclusively used for that purpose, first and foremost, as has been written?

And is told here are the two meals offerings plus we collect, see if you can get the people to be equal in their temporal things, with that.

Good to ponder upon these things. ♡ ♡

[freedomforall]

Doctrine and Covenants section 13.

Read and see, it is only "one verse". ♡ ♡

See also D&C 68:16-21. ♡ ♡

Aaron is of the tribe of Levi, with the right to distribute the "Tithes" to the poor and needy among us. ♡ ♡

Who are the poor?
Who are the needy?
When a person takes advantage of the welfare system, always wanting something for nothing what category do they fall in?
If a person gives to another in secret then goes about broadcasting it is that okay?
If a person always gives to the poor and nobody else but God knows about it, is it okay for other people to misjudge them by labeling them as stingy and cold hearted?
Do people want to see the church giving to the poor and needy just to satisfy a selfish need, or can the church give to others as a sacred thing, and the complainers go on complaining?

[Robert Sinclair]

Better to complain about the perversion of equity than to be silent.

Better to relieve the suffering of the poor and needy making noise about it than to not take care of them equally or even not at all.

Who is poor and who is needy?

The oppressed and burdened, and yoked, that struggle to survive and to feed and clothe and shelter themselves and their families.

God gives a perfect reasoning of who is poor and who is needy in the "One Stick" given unto Ephraim to be confounded no more on who is poor and who is not.

And The Book of Enoch the Prophet backs this up perfectly.

Read and come to know and understand all these things and escape from the grasp of this awful Beast of ignorance, and Monster of death and hell, and the Devil, and the firm hold of the Mother of Abominations and of Harlots, and Whore of all the earth, and the Father of all lies.

Bring yourself to life and light of understanding and wisdom and intelligence given of God. ♡ ♡

Come to know and be equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly as God has commanded of all that would belong to his living church. ♡ ♡

Get to the tree of life, partake of its fruit, get your name written in the book of life, and be present at the marriage supper of the Lamb of God, and enter into the celestial kingdom of God. ♡ ♡

And yes, be ye therefore perfect, equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly, filled with charity for all of God's children. ♡ ♡

[freedomforall]

Better to complain about the perversion of equity than to be silent. You had better be absolutely, 100% correct in those thugs you think are taking place.

Better to relieve the suffering of the poor and needy making noise about it than to not take care of them equally or even not at all.

Who is poor and who is needy?

The oppressed and burdened, and yoked, that struggle to survive and to feed and clothe and shelter themselves and their families. Where are they? Next door? Down the street? Across town? Your bishop should know. Then go and help them. We are commanded as individuals to have charity, not the church leadership doing everything.

God gives a perfect reasoning of who is poor and who is needy in the "One Stick" given unto Ephraim to be confounded no more on who is poor and who is not. Forget the "one stick". Poor people are all over the place not even within the House of Israel or Gentiles. So do they get left out? This is where a person comes in that has charity in their heart already. President Kimball used to say "DO IT".

And The Book of Enoch the Prophet backs this up perfectly.

Read and come to know and understand all these things and escape from the grasp of this awful Beast of ignorance, and Monster of death and hell, and the Devil, and the firm hold of the Mother of Abominations and of Harlots, and Whore of all the earth, and the Father of all lies. Just who are you referring to? We are told that the whore of the earth is anyone that fights against Zion.

2 Nephi 10:16
16 Wherefore, he that fighteth against Zion, both Jew and Gentile, both bond and free, both male and female, shall perish; for they are they who are the whore of all the earth; for they who are not for me are against me, saith our God.


Bring yourself to life and light of understanding and wisdom and intelligence given of God. ♡ ♡ Good idea, and be charitable along with it.

Come to know and be equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly as God has commanded of all that would belong to his living church. ♡ ♡ Through personal charity.

Get to the tree of life, partake of its fruit, get your name written in the book of life, and be present at the marriage supper of the Lamb of God, and enter into the celestial kingdom of God. ♡ ♡ True, by having faith, hope and charity.

And yes, be ye therefore perfect, equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly, filled with charity for all of God's children. ♡ ♡

But don't expect the church do what we individuals can do on our own. This is the real test of true saints.

[Robert Sinclair]

The bride is in the closet and needs to be brought out as God has said. ♡ ♡

The expectations of Ephraim is to be honored and called and elected to lay the foundation of Zion, by being equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly, by imparting of covenants and deeds that cannot be broken into the hands of the poor Saints sufficient for the support of their families from the consecrated Tithes and Offerings without any grudgingly behavior.

This is not being done and the Lord has said to weep and howl and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion about this.

Do what the Lord has said to do, and be the way he has said to be, and know what he has said to know.

The Lord has said to sound the alarm, why do you not want to do as he has said?

This to awaken the old men and administers of the law of God as is written in the book of Joel.

So do, that it may be well worth it. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

Remember you must do "all" the things that Jesus Christ has said to do. ♡ ♡

So sound the alarm as he has said. ♡ ♡

[Col. Flagg]

I still haven't seen where the Church is abusing tithing funds. I just don't see it.

You mention a mall but the authorities never said that tithing was used to build the mall. Au contraire, they said that tithing was NOT used.

'Twas a little white lie... most of the monies that generated the interest income from the real estate investments which helped fund the project were derived from tithing funds - the church sets aside a portion of tithing funds and invests the money into interest-bearing accounts for several years and then uses the vast majority of those funds for commercial projects.

[LucianAMD]

I still haven't seen where the Church is abusing tithing funds. I just don't see it.

I think the fact that there are malnourished and starving children in the Church all over the world should be proof enough. If we can't bother to even take care of our own then the funds are not being used wisely. Because of their misuse, organizations like the Liahona Children's Foundation have had to try and step in and do what the Church should be doing with the money we give them.

[buffalo_girl]

Ezekiel 34 admonishes me to become a better shepherd. When I have a sick or lame sheep, it isn't always easy to minister to their needs. They often fight restraint. If I fail, however, to apply remedy to the animal's individual complaint or wound, it will DIE.

The more I involve myself in each individual sheep's needs, the more I grow to love them as separate and unique personalities, and the more willing they are to come to me when I call - even when they 'perceive' I mean to subject them to shearing or deworming.

They do retain their independence in fulfilling their God endowed role and calling in mortality, but they TRUST me to attend to situations beyond their capabilities. They will let me know by bellowing most convincingly of their VERY REAL difficulties. However, I don't recall any of them asking for a 'handout'.

I suspect that if I admonished them to simply 'buck-up' (no pun intended) and ignored the fact that someone's head was stuck through a fence or there was no water for 4 or 5 days, they would just DIE.

Early last spring, many shepherds in our region had their flocks sheared prior to lambing in early February. Early lambs fetch a high market price and stockmen in the business of selling take risks with the lives of their ewes in order to capitalize on that market. Unfortunately, those large flocks of pregnant ewes were subjected to a severe temperature drop and blizzard conditions within a few days of their having been sheared. I was told that the yards of many stockmen were stacked several layers deep with the carcasses of undelivered ewes who died of exposure.

Well, anyway...I know I have NOT earned the honor of being called a SAINT. I often wonder why that Honorary was selected by the LORD to distinguish His Latter-day Church. Is it a reminder of an ultimate goal to humbly and sincerely WORK to fulfill its requirements or a condemnation for not having done so?

Ezekiel 34
1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel (Ephraim - Northern Tribes), prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.

4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

7 ¶Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

8 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;

9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

[/color]

[Col. Flagg]

I still haven't seen where the Church is abusing tithing funds. I just don't see it.

I think the fact that there are malnourished and starving children in the Church all over the world should be proof enough. If we can't bother to even take care of our own then the funds are not being used wisely. Because of their misuse, organizations like the Liahona Children's Foundation have had to try and step in and do what the Church should be doing with the money we give them.

Yup...

http://www.liahonachildren.org/#/home

[Tetraman]

So with all this talk about being equal. What does it mean to be equal in the eyes of the Lord? We are not born equal in talents, we are not equal in intelligence, we don't have equal passion to develop our talents, we are not equal in capacity.

I came across this, trying to find greater insight:

17 And you are to be equal, or in other words, you are to have equal claims on the properties, for the benefit of managing the concerns of your stewardships, every man according to his wants and his needs, inasmuch as his wants are just—

18 And all this for the benefit of the church of the living God, that every man may improve upon his talent, that every man may gain other talents, yea, even an hundred fold, to be cast into the Lord’s storehouse, to become the common property of the whole church—

My first impression is the we are to be equal in our claim on resources for the purpose of building talents and developing new talents. I think this implies hard work, not just getting stuff to make us comfortable. If we did this then the Lords storehouse would be increased an hundred fold.

If I look around at who owns the vast majority of the "property of the earth", it's not the church I get mad at. It's the filthy rich who claim ownership of what God provided for us and we can only have access to it for money. The church is trying to do the best it can in a world where Babylon controls it all.

[Steve Clark]

I still haven't seen where the Church is abusing tithing funds. I just don't see it.

I think the fact that there are malnourished and starving children in the Church all over the world should be proof enough. If we can't bother to even take care of our own then the funds are not being used wisely. Because of their misuse, organizations like the Liahona Children's Foundation have had to try and step in and do what the Church should be doing with the money we give them.

Repeating because this cannot be said enough. God, forgive us.