STAKE CONFERENCE--Tithing

[Col. Flagg]

Since we don't practice polygamy, its not our doctrine and it should be condemned. I condemn it too. If it's practiced again, it will be our doctrine and not condemned.

The very scriptures you use to condemn the conference center also condemn the New Jerusalem and the Celestial Kingdom. True story.

Shadow, Shadow, Shadow… where did your Mom and I go wrong? ;) No, they do not condemn the New Jerusalem or the celestial kingdom… funny you bring up the New Jerusalem though… you mentioned earlier that Cranky Creek just might be a structure that will be used during the millennium… you need to remember though that the New Jerusalem (Christ’s HQ) will be in two locales… Jackson County, MO and the current Jerusalem in the middle east, not Salt Lake City. Going back to your insinuation that those very same scriptures condemn the New Jerusalem and celestial kingdom… is Christ going to be concerning himself with money, riches, fine apparel, lavishness, re-building Babylon, etc. while forgetting about those in need after his return? There is a big difference in structures like temples, shelters for families, Bishop’s Storehouses, places of worship, thrift stores for the less fortunate and canneries and structures akin to the great and spacious building that Lehi saw where the pride of the world was – this is the distinction you are not making here.

[marktheshark]

So this goes to show that no bad idea really ever dies in a large enough institution?

Things change. When I first married my wife we didn't have any kids. We lived in a small 1 bedroom apartment, just a few hundred square feet. Now with 4 kids we live in a 5 bedroom 3100 square foot house. 15 years ago the big house would've been a bad idea. Today the small apartment would be a bad idea.

The church has built lots of buildings. I don't see that there's a big crunch for more space to meet. Besides, I told you yesterday, I like the neighborhood church idea. They just wanted a great and spacious building to sit in and speak to the unwashed masses from. Satellite from the old Tabernacle worked fine for that. Hell, now we have apostles "presiding" over stake conferences from the COB in a cubicle made to look like a Relief Society room.

Come off it with your bickering already. [-(

[Robert Sinclair]

To say instead of just giving like Jesus Christ has said to do, let's follow a different way and path, is to go away from what Jesus Christ has said to do.

Ephraim has tried this.

Need to return to keep the commandment of Jesus Christ to just give covenants and deeds that cannot be broken into the hands of the poor Saints sufficient for the support of their families from the consecrated Tithes and Offerings
And be thankful that you are even able to do this, because of the blessings that God has given you. ♡ ♡

You may go the way of all the earth, having had the opportunity to so do, and didn't.

And may have lost your chance to prove to God, that you would do, that which you could have easily done with $40,000,000,000.00 and growing assets consecrated thus far from the faithful Saints that have given.

And what will you say then before the judgment bar of Christ?

The people were not yet right, when you will suddenly realize it was you, and not they, that was not yet right?

Don't let this time arrive for you at the great and terrible day of the Lord to come.

Speedily Ephraim should awaken and say, "What have I to do anymore with idols?"

And finally begin to lay the foundation of Zion spoken of in the Doctrine and Covenants. ♡ ♡

[freedomforall]

I went to Adam-ondi-Ahman years and years ago. There was a restroom and a trash can and a monument.

Has it changed much lately? ♡ ♡

Perhaps the people living around there are too poor.

[Robert Sinclair]

I don't think there were many homes even nearby this site for quite a ways when I went to survey the area many years ago. Or even a gas station. ♡ ♡

[FSM]

I attended stake conference in Mexico. No apostles present but there was an area 70 presiding the conference.

The Stake President opened up with a discourse on the Law of Tithing and the Law of the Fast, quoting Joseph F. Smith, word for word:

God requires one-tenth of our increase to be put into His storehouse; and this is given as a standing law to all of the Stakes of Zion.

By this principle (tithing) the loyalty of the people of this Church shall be put to the test. By this principle it shall be known who is for the kingdom of God and who is against it. By this principle it shall be seen whose hearts are set on doing the will of God and keeping his commandments, thereby sanctifying the land of Zion unto God, and who are opposed to this principle and have cut themselves off from the blessings of Zion. There is a great deal of importance connected with this principle, for by it it shall be known whether we are faithful or unfaithful. In this respect it is as essential as faith in God, as repentance of sin, as baptism for the remission of sin, or as the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The law of tithing is a test by which the people as individuals shall be proved. Any man who fails to observe this principle shall be known as a man who is indifferent to the welfare of Zion, who neglects his duty as a member of the Church, and who does nothing toward the accomplishment of the temporal advancement of the kingdom of God. He contributes nothing, either, toward spreading the gospel to the nations of the earth, and he neglects to do that which would entitle him to receive the blessings and ordinances of the gospel.

The observance of the law of tithing is voluntary. I can pay my tithing or not, as I choose. It is a matter of choice with me, whether I will do it or not do it; but, feeling as I do, loyal to the Church, loyal to its interests, believing that it is right and just to observe the law of tithing I do observe it—on the same principle that I think it is right for me to observe the law of repentance, and of baptism, for the remission of sins.

We who have not paid our tithing in the past, and are therefore under obligations to the Lord, which we are not in position to discharge, the Lord requires that no longer at our hands, but will forgive us for the past if we will observe this law honestly in the future. That is generous and kind, and I feel grateful for it.

I have said, and I will repeat it here, that a man or woman who will always pay his or her tithing will never apostatize. It does not make any difference how small or how large it may be; it is a law of the Lord; it is a source of revenue for the Church; it is God’s requirement, and He has said that those who will not observe it are not worthy of an inheritance in Zion. No man will ever apostatize so long as he will pay his tithing. It is reasonable. Why? Because as long as he has faith to pay his tithing he has faith in the Church and in the principles of the Gospel, and there is some good in him, and there is some light in him. As long as he will do this the tempter will not overcome him and will not lead him astray.

Then I checked where I could find it and it shows up in the manual of TPC: Joseph F. Smith, chapter 31.

Then I thought of this forum about the people that have been justifying their not paying tithing. Repent ye.

As plain as day. I do not pay tithing and I do not feel bad about it at all. I still help those in need when I can. Plus I don't feel like an evil person. Guilt tripping does not control me. Just my 2 cents. Love you guys.

[FSM]

Guilt is not what should motivate a person to pay tithing. If you are, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

True.

[freedomforall]

I don't think that giving to all the poor by church headquarters is a requirement from God. I do think, however, that members learning to become SELF-RELIANT is.

https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&que ... ance+talks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2009/03/beco ... y?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Becoming Self-Reliant—Spiritually and Physically
From the Church Handbook of Instructions, we learn: “The Savior has commanded the Church and its members to be self-reliant and independent. …

“To become self-reliant, a person must work. Work is physical, mental, or spiritual effort. It is a basic source of happiness, self-worth, and prosperity. Through work, people accomplish many good things in their lives. …

President Marion G. Romney (1897–1988) taught: “Without self-reliance one cannot exercise these innate desires to serve. How can we give if there is nothing there? Food for the hungry cannot come from empty shelves. Money to assist the needy cannot come from an empty purse. Support and understanding cannot come from the emotionally starved. Teaching cannot come from the unlearned. And most important of all, spiritual guidance cannot come from the spiritually weak.” 2 (See also p. 65 of this magazine.)

From: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1975/08/self ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Self-Reliance
The Church was two years old when the Lord revealed that, “the idler shall not have place in the church, except he repent and mend his ways.” (D&C 75:29.) President Marion G. Romney in our last conference explained this principle with his characteristic simple directness: “The obligation to sustain one’s self was divinely imposed upon the human race at its beginning. ‘In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground.’ (Gen. 3:19.)”

The welfare handbook instructs, “(We must) earnestly teach and urge members to be self-sustaining to the fullest extent of their power. No Latter-day Saint will … voluntarily shift from himself the burden of his own support. So long as he can, under the inspiration of the Almighty and with his own labors, he will supply himself with the necessities of life.” (1952, p. 2.)

We have counseled bishops and stake presidents to be very careful to avoid abuses in the welfare program. When people are able but are unwilling to take care of themselves, we are responsible to employ the dictum of the Lord, that the idler shall not eat the bread of the laborer. The simple rule has been, to the fullest extent possible, to take care of one’s self. This couplet of truth has been something of a model:

“Eat it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.”

From:
https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-stren ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Work and Self-Reliance
Set high goals for yourself, and be willing to work hard to achieve them. Develop self-discipline, and be dependable. Do your best in your Church callings, schoolwork, employment, and other worthwhile pursuits. Young men should be willing to do what is needed to be prepared to serve a full-time mission. Heavenly Father has given you gifts and talents and knows what you are capable of achieving. Seek His help and guidance as you work to achieve your goals.

And much, much more:
https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&que ... ance+talks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How can a person learn to be self reliant while laying in a hammock 24/7?

BTW, what does it mean to "Rest on one's laurels" with regard to laying in a hammock?

It means: To be satisfied with one's past success and to consider further effort unnecessary.

For a long time I thought it was referring to sitting on one's backside. The English language sure can fool us, eh?

[Robert Sinclair]

That's a way to make totally null and void the words of Jesus Christ to just give covenants and deeds that cannot be broken into the hands of the poor Saints sufficient for the support of their families from the consecrated Tithes and Offerings without any grudgingly behavior.

Fullfilling the words perfectly of Hosea of exactly what Ephraim shall do, once given the greater celestial law to just give.

Considering it a strange thing and go a whoring away from this law given, and pursuing Babylon and idols of worship set up called "the doctrines of men".

Perfect, you could not have given a more perfect example of this.

Using this as an excuse not to keep the commandment of God given is exactly what was prophesied Ephraim shall do.

Keep the commandment of God given to his beloved son Jesus Christ to just give. And watch what happens when you keep his commandments which he has given us. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

Set the example, earn enough to give many homes away throughout your temporal life, and give them away. Then when hard working Latter Day Saints ask how did you do that, show them also ways to do the same.

Some will come back with at least equal to what they were given, some double some triple, and some even an hundred fold or even more is the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Who do you trust and have faith in?

Jesus Christ or the Doctrine of Men?

Your lives will manifest who you trust in.

Trust in the words of Jesus Christ that he will never lie to you. ♡ ♡

[Obrien]

They just wanted a great and spacious building to sit in and speak to the unwashed masses from.

That's not what Pres. Hinckley said.

I think you should share your ideas with God etc. They're planning some big meeting out in Missouri at a place called Adam-ondi-Ahman. They could just satellite the whole thing into peoples houses.
You're so smart Obrien :-B

No, I am a big believer in the REAL WORLD. AoA will be as real as it gets. Perhaps they should go build a 20,000 seat arena there in preparation for the big meeting. What do you think Jesus would say about that?

[freedomforall]

That's a way to make totally null and void the words of Jesus Christ to just give covenants and deeds that cannot be broken into the hands of the poor Saints sufficient for the support of their families from the consecrated Tithes and Offerings without any grudgingly behavior.

Fullfilling the words perfectly of Hosea of exactly what Ephraim shall do, once given the greater celestial law to just give.

Considering it a strange thing and go a whoring away from this law given, and pursuing Babylon and idols of worship set up called "the doctrines of men".

Perfect, you could not have given a more perfect example of this.

Using this as an excuse not to keep the commandment of God given is exactly what was prophesied Ephraim shall do.

Keep the commandment of God given to his beloved son Jesus Christ to just give. And watch what happens when you keep his commandments which he has given us. ♡ ♡

I think it all boils down to one's own understanding and strong desire to nit pick. Yet we're told in scripture to not lean on our own understanding. Pro 3:5,6
Ever since I was a child going back to a young age where I could comprehend things taught in church, I have heard leaders teach the principle of self reliance. I have provided talks from church leaders on the topic, so continually talking about Ephraim is unproductive at best.
It is the responsibility of church members to have charity and help the poor and needy, etc. not church headquarters.

Here is a charge to members:

27 Yea, and when you do not cry unto the Lord, let your hearts be full, drawn out in prayer unto him continually for your welfare, and also for the welfare of those who are around you.

15 But ye will teach them to walk in the ways of truth and soberness; ye will teach them to love one another, and to serve one another.

How about an idler?

29 Let every man be diligent in all things. And the idler shall not have place in the church, except he repent and mend his ways.

How about what God has said?:

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

So what is this about always giving to the poor when the Lord expects them to get off their duff and earn it by the sweat of their brow?

[Robert Sinclair]

Have faith in others to do good and do good yourselves.
In a period of less than 6 months Brother Steven Jones has shown that 2 homes can be just given to poor and needy families without any grudgingly behavior.

Manifesting perfectly that with faith and hope it can be done.

He had total faith and look what he has done already.

Given an entire lifetime he will prove that Jesus Christ words are true, especially if you have even a mustard seed of faith.

Who knows but that hundreds or even thousands or even hundreds of thousands of homes by his example of faith might cause to be given into the hands of the poor and needy Saints among us?

Jesus Christ does not lie, all these things are possible if you will just believe in him and keep his commandments which he has given us to just give. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

Your words church headquarters is not to just give, will cause you to fear and tremble before the judgment bar of Christ, who has commanded that giving be done, and this not grudgingly.

Can you just see yourself saying to Peter and his fellow apostles to not just give as they did in the book of Acts?

Saying wait, don't just hand out and distribute unto all haven't you read the church manual?

Awaken, acknowledge this offence against God, and weep and howl for these things, and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion for this perversion of equity being taught diligently in the church.

Hopefully the old men and administers of the tithing money will give ear to these things and consider:

Can this be true in our day and time and even in the days of our fathers?

Yes, yes it is.

Good to awaken speedily from this nightmare about to fall upon this House of Ephraim and invited guests.

And weep and howl and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion for these things as God has commanded.

You will be everlastingly glad you did as God has said. ♡ ♡

[freedomforall]

Your words church headquarters is not to just give, will cause you to fear and tremble before the judgment bar of Christ, who has commanded that giving be done, and this not grudgingly.

Can you just see yourself saying to Peter and his fellow apostles to not just give as they did in the book of Acts?

Saying wait, don't just hand out and distribute unto all haven't you read the church manual?

Awaken, acknowledge this offence against God, and weep and howl for these things, and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion for this perversion of equity being taught diligently in the church.

Hopefully the old men and administers of the tithing money will give ear to these things and consider:

Can this be true in our day and time and even in the days of our fathers?

Yes, yes it is.

Good to awaken speedily from this nightmare about to fall upon this House of Ephraim and invited guests.

And weep and howl and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion for these things as God has commanded.

You will be everlastingly glad you did as God has said. ♡ ♡

And you conveniently ignored the other scriptures provided? There is a whole lot more than just a few parts from the bible. I don't understand why you will not acknowledge this. Your opinion is great, but scripture doesn't back your point of view in all aspects.
God did not lie when he said for man to earn their way by the sweat of their brow, now did he?

[Robert Sinclair]

How is it that the laborers that just give homes are not laboring?

There is no need to go deep into depth about how if a man has brought upon himself his own misery, the Lord has said he is to still be given unto, and we are not to stay our hand.

Neither of them that would steal away our goods, that Jesus Christ has said to just let them go.

I have never advocated people just do nothing.

I have dilligently taught that Jesus Christ has said to give notwithstanding what even your enemies will do to you.

Self reliance comes naturally to some people so gifted of God that they are able to so easily.

With some this becomes a struggle all their lives.

Why God created some brains and drives so differently and various disabilities I don't have all the answers to.

I only know that of me Jesus Christ has said to give.

And how can I just give save I earn enough to care for not only myself but enough to help others as well.

So self reliance is not the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ but a survivor instinct.

Give is far, far beyond self reliance only.

In order to give to take care of a wife and 10 children, I learned to pursue and do things far, far beyond just self reliance. Sometimes working 2 and 3 jobs for many, many years.

God knows his children.

He knows who he has given abilities unto and whom he has not.

Of yourself look to his words.

The Beast of ignorance spoken of in the book of Revelation has been given power over the ignorant Saints.

All he has to do is blind you just a little bit from some of the words of Jesus Christ who has said you must know and keep them all.

How easy is the task of the Beast to just keep people from knowing all the things Jesus Christ has said to do, and all the ways Jesus Christ has said to be like, and all the things Jesus Christ has said to know.

Few there will be that pass the test of overcoming this Beast of ignorance, who is, yet is not for those who come to know, yet still is because of ignorance.

Baptize yourself in the living waters of the words of Jesus Christ, without even a toe sticking out, and feast upon the bread of life of his words until you are full, and have tasted of all his words of life.

Remember he has said few there will be.

He does not lie.

Come to know all of his words and reach the tree of life and partake of its fruit, and be invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God and gathered into the celestial kingdom of God. ♡ ♡

Learn to just give and give abundantly. ♡ ♡

And to be equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly. ♡ ♡

[Col. Flagg]

Since we don't practice polygamy, its not our doctrine and it should be condemned. I condemn it too. If it's practiced again, it will be our doctrine and not condemned.

The very scriptures you use to condemn the conference center also condemn the New Jerusalem and the Celestial Kingdom. True story.

He didn't say 'I condemn it now' or 'I condemn it because we no longer practice it'... he said "I condemn it as a practice because I don't think it's doctrinal". That's pretty easy to interpret and understand what he was eluding to.

[shadow]

Since we don't practice polygamy, its not our doctrine and it should be condemned. I condemn it too. If it's practiced again, it will be our doctrine and not condemned.

The very scriptures you use to condemn the conference center also condemn the New Jerusalem and the Celestial Kingdom. True story.

He didn't say 'I condemn it now' or 'I condemn it because we no longer practice it'... he said "I condemn it as a practice because I don't think it's doctrinal". That's pretty easy to interpret and understand what he was eluding to.

Isn't that what I said?
As a Prophet, he actually performed plural wife marriages. He could've said "No, you're already married for eternity with your first wife, since she passed on and you found a new wife, you need to get married for time only." but he didn't. That's pretty easy to interpret and understand. Also, two apostles have plural wives. Oaks and Nelson. But we don't practice it in mortality anymore, thankfully. In mortality, it's condemned unless stated otherwise. Jacob explains it very well in the BOM.

[Robert Sinclair]

Not really about tithing but interesting, a man loses a wife because she passed away and he can be sealed to another, what is church policy if a woman's husband passes away can she then be sealed to another husband as well?

Interesting. ♡ ♡

[Robert Sinclair]

Back to tithes for the poor and needy among us.

Not only was Israel to bring forth its first and best fruits and items from the fields and vineyards, for to have administered unto the poor and needy among them by the Bishops of their days of the Levite tribe, they were not to take all from their fields and vineyards, but were to leave some behind for the stranger and the poor to have.

So that it should always be remembered to provide for the poor and needy first and last of the things that they had.

Call it firstfruits and gleaning if you will of your Tithes and Offerings without any grudgingly behavior.

So is it written in the Doctrine and Covenants of the law unto the Church, and the foundation thereof that the people who would like to belong to the church of the living God, are to be equal in their temporal things, and this not grudgingly by the Tithes and Offerings cast into the Storehouse Treasury of the Lord, for food and for raiment for houses and for lands, in whatsoever circumstances the Lord places you.

Get houses and lands as well as food and raiment into the hands of the poor and needy Saints among us as God has commanded.

See to it that programs are established, to get covenants and deeds that cannot be broken, into their hands sufficient for the support of their families from these consecrated assets, and become equal in your temporal things and this not grudgingly, before the great and terrible day of the Lord that soon comes, with the fury of the whirlwinds of the Lord of destruction, upon those who refused to be equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly.

Yes, speedily awaken from this illusion that all is well, and of the nightmare about to fall upon this House of Ephraim for rejecting the celestial law given unto them.

Sound the alarm and weep and howl and blow the trumpet in Zion about these things and live and not be utterly destroyed in the time soon to come. ♡ ♡

[Col. Flagg]

Since we don't practice polygamy, its not our doctrine and it should be condemned. I condemn it too. If it's practiced again, it will be our doctrine and not condemned.

The very scriptures you use to condemn the conference center also condemn the New Jerusalem and the Celestial Kingdom. True story.

He didn't say 'I condemn it now' or 'I condemn it because we no longer practice it'... he said "I condemn it as a practice because I don't think it's doctrinal". That's pretty easy to interpret and understand what he was eluding to.

Isn't that what I said?

No - you were indicating that the reason he condemned it was because it is no longer practiced and considered an ex-communicable offense if you do. I maintain he condemned it because he does not think it was ever doctrinal.

As a Prophet, he actually performed plural wife marriages. He could've said "No, you're already married for eternity with your first wife, since she passed on and you found a new wife, you need to get married for time only." but he didn't. That's pretty easy to interpret and understand. Also, two apostles have plural wives. Oaks and Nelson.

He never sealed a man to another woman though when the first wife was still around, right? As for Oaks and Nelson... personally, I would never and could never subject my wife to accepting another woman in some sort of twisted 'love triangle' simply because I either wanted another companion on the earth or wanted/needed a sexual relationship. A husband and wife are to be of one flesh, right? Sharing your life, body and soul with another is sacred and a deep bond between two people... a husband taking another wife after his first one passes away or whatever desecrates that. And how is it fair to a woman who passes away whose husband turns around and gets sealed to another woman that the first suddenly has to accept now for eternity in a love triangle? I seriously doubt that is how the Lord operates.

But we don't practice it in mortality anymore, thankfully. In mortality, it's condemned unless stated otherwise. Jacob explains it very well in the BOM.

Yes, Jacob explains it very well...

Jacob 2

7: And also it grieveth me that I must use so much boldness of speech concerning you, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God;
10 But, notwithstanding the greatness of the task, I must do according to the strict commands of God, and tell you concerning your wickedness and abominations, in the presence of the pure in heart, and the broken heart, and under the glance of the piercing eye of the Almighty God.
23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.
34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.
35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.

This is a thread on tithing and so I apologize for changing the subject here temporarily.

[Robert Sinclair]

Ephraim's current use of Tithes is far, far away from the original intent and law of God.

God's law is firstfruits and gleaning for the poor.

That first and foremost before even one penny is spent on buildings or public benefit lands for welfare farms, each and every single member is to be set up with an inheritance of a stewardship with a covenant and a deed that cannot be broken, sufficient for the support of their own self and their family. And that the members are to be equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly, for food and for raiment for houses and for lands, in whatsoever circumstances the Lord places them.

This Ephraim needs to get back to doing saying, "What have I to do anymore with idols?" to fullfill the Scriptures written of Hosea 14:8. And bring his bride out of the closet clothed with equity and justice and righteousness and goodness and purity of heart, of fruits that are equal and delightful unto the Lord. ♡ ♡

Anyone who tells you otherwise knows not the will of God given to his own Church.

See Doctrine and Covenants section 42 and 58 and 70 and 105.

In fact read the entire "One Stick" given unto Ephraim and his invited guests and "The Book of Enoch the Prophet" testified of by Joseph Smith that it would soon be testified of, and then be confounded no more on how to treat the poor. ♡ ♡

Discuss this with your Twelve and Seventy Shepherds and see if they will listen and give ear as it is written.

You will be glad you did. ♡ ♡

[marktheshark]

Ephraim's current use of Tithes is far, far away from the original intent and law of God.

God's law is firstfruits and gleaning for the poor.

That first and foremost before even one penny is spent on buildings or public benefit lands for welfare farms, each and every single member is to be set up with an inheritance of a stewardship with a covenant and a deed that cannot be broken, sufficient for the support of their own self and their family. And that the members are to be equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly, for food and for raiment for houses and for lands, in whatsoever circumstances the Lord places them.

This Ephraim needs to get back to doing saying, "What have I to do anymore with idols?" to fullfill the Scriptures written of Hosea 14:8. And bring his bride out of the closet clothed with equity and justice and righteousness and goodness and purity of heart, of fruits that are equal and delightful unto the Lord. ♡ ♡

Anyone who tells you otherwise knows not the will of God given to his own Church.

See Doctrine and Covenants section 42 and 58 and 70 and 105.

In fact read the entire "One Stick" given unto Ephraim and his invited guests and "The Book of Enoch the Prophet" testified of by Joseph Smith that it would soon be testified of, and then be confounded no more on how to treat the poor. ♡ ♡

Discuss this with your Twelve and Seventy Shepherds and see if they will listen and give ear as it is written.

You will be glad you did. ♡ ♡

You know, if you would actually quit copy pasting the same mantra repeatedly, and make more concise comments people would be more apt to listen to your points and give you more attention to your replies and comments.

It's really tiresome to weed through a 7 paragraph post when 2 or 3 sentences of actual response is present and which will suffice.

There's not a regular on here that doesn't know your position on covenants and deeds, the Twelve and Seventy Shepherds blatant misuse of tithing funds in your skewed opinion, equal in our temporal things not begrudgingly, etc, etc, etc.

We don't need to hear it 30 times a day, honestly.

[Steve Clark]

Ephraim's current use of Tithes is far, far away from the original intent and law of God.

God's law is firstfruits and gleaning for the poor.

That first and foremost before even one penny is spent on buildings or public benefit lands for welfare farms, each and every single member is to be set up with an inheritance of a stewardship with a covenant and a deed that cannot be broken, sufficient for the support of their own self and their family. And that the members are to be equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly, for food and for raiment for houses and for lands, in whatsoever circumstances the Lord places them.

This Ephraim needs to get back to doing saying, "What have I to do anymore with idols?" to fullfill the Scriptures written of Hosea 14:8. And bring his bride out of the closet clothed with equity and justice and righteousness and goodness and purity of heart, of fruits that are equal and delightful unto the Lord. ♡ ♡

Anyone who tells you otherwise knows not the will of God given to his own Church.

See Doctrine and Covenants section 42 and 58 and 70 and 105.

In fact read the entire "One Stick" given unto Ephraim and his invited guests and "The Book of Enoch the Prophet" testified of by Joseph Smith that it would soon be testified of, and then be confounded no more on how to treat the poor. ♡ ♡

Discuss this with your Twelve and Seventy Shepherds and see if they will listen and give ear as it is written.

You will be glad you did. ♡ ♡

You know, if you would actually quit copy pasting the same mantra repeatedly, and make more concise comments people would be more apt to listen to your points and give you more attention to your replies and comments.

It's really tiresome to weed through a 7 paragraph post when 2 or 3 sentences of actual response is present and which will suffice.

There's not a regular on here that doesn't know your position on covenants and deeds, the Twelve and Seventy Shepherds blatant misuse of tithing funds in your skewed opinion, equal in our temporal things not begrudgingly, etc, etc, etc.

We don't need to hear it 30 times a day, honestly.

Perhaps it's the lack of change in the audience that keeps him going. We could shut him up really easy by taking care of the poor.

[Robert Sinclair]

marktheshark:

Some do not feel as you do so if you feel so inclined please skip my posts so that others who do enjoy my continued postings can keep reading them. ♡ ♡

Thanks. ♡ ♡