LDS Freedom Forum

You're more patient than I, braingrunt. I started to respond in a similar vein to you, but got tired of trying to organize thoughts around a disorganized main idea. Gold star to you, on this one.

braingrunt wrote:To touch on my speculations: The scripture says there is evil in the flesh. In order for this to be literally true, there does have to be an intelligence and an agency at work, because inanimate things are not literally capable of evil. I suppose the spirits that followed lucifer may be making good on their threat to possess the bodies God created for us; however, I tend to think, that INSTEAD, these are lower intelligences/spirits which operate our cells; and that we must strive to elevate them into one of the three laws (telestial, terrestrial, celestial), in order to properly and righteously be a ruler over them. This parallels the scriptural idea of the righteous becoming the body of christ. Humanity gives Jesus trials and challenges and suffering that he would not otherwise have. But having overcome all this, he elevates all of us, and in the end we freely subject ourselves to him, to be our head.

Interesting, I like it. We know through the Prophets that matter becomes finer, more holy, pure, and endowed with deeper intellectual attributes and sympathetic affections the closer to God we become. Hence the more gross elements, that the Gods commanded until they obeyed, to create heaven and earth, posses these attributes but at a much lower gradient than higher order matter. We can postulate that there are infinite gradients of matter of all types from the telestial through the celestial and beyond. Each particle of matter has enough of the higher attributes to be able to "listen" and "obey" the Gods and this is the same matter that makes up our gross faculties with which our organs are made, and unless "quickened" our gross organs can only "sense" the same type of matter hence the Vail. Since this matter can and does listen and obey I think you are correct in your speculations that we must "strive to elevate them". Since "they" are us, we are are elevating ourselves and if we do not we cannot "align" ourselves with the higher order matter and progress to our ultimate potential.


It makes sense to me that the lower order matter has built in chemical and spiritual "programs" or "AI" enough to at least propagate and survive. I think this is the case because the lower order of matter is not capable of more social and higher order tasks. It also makes sense the higher the order of the matter, the more it is affected by and works together with other higher order matter to complete the ever higher order tasks as it leaves behind the lower more base "programs". Just a thought.

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CONTINUE SPECULATION

To me, what ensures eternal life, is attaining those perfections, and those perfecting influences, which cause life to have a desire to devotedly organize around you, without any compulsion. Without those perfections, you would cease to be 'god', even of your little kingdom which we call a body, much more of children much closer to your sphere of life.

The sons of perdition, without any ability to perfect or be perfect in any sphere or kingdom, will literally fall apart as they are abondoned by those who have been part of their organism, and see the ship sinking so to speak, and seek out other kingdoms which might actually work out for them. Perhaps in the end, the bright intelligence which was the germ of that SOP, which was capable of so much, yet came to nothing--perhaps in the end it will learn something and become a fit part of some organization.

Sorry...my eyes just crossed completely...my left is now my right and my right is now my left. If that could be explained in more simple way, I might understand.

brrgilbert wrote:Further, God's power is wielded through love and influence resulting in "obedience" and not by "forcing" events to occur such as are done through "Telestial" technology.

To be simplistic, yup yup.

braingrunt wrote:To me, what ensures eternal life, is attaining those perfections, and those perfecting influences, which cause life to have a desire to devotedly organize around you, without any compulsion. Without those perfections, you would cease to be 'god', even of your little kingdom which we call a body, much more of children much closer to your sphere of life.

The sons of perdition, without any ability to perfect or be perfect in any sphere or kingdom, will literally fall apart as they are abandoned by those who have been part of their organism, and see the ship sinking so to speak, and seek out other kingdoms which might actually work out for them. Perhaps in the end, the bright intelligence which was the germ of that SOP, which was capable of so much, yet came to nothing--perhaps in the end it will learn something and become a fit part of some organization.

Oh yes oh yes.... I call it discombobulation. My wife laughs and laughs. Excellent speculation my dear sir, most excellent. Totally agree.

]natasha wrote:Sorry...my eyes just crossed completely...my left is now my right and my right is now my left.

oh! um, is there a cure?