LDS Freedom Forum

I do have every confidence that the founding father's were inspired, and maybe perhaps forordained. Nicola Telsa was a genius in his own right like Einstien in physics. Edison however? I don't know, he was certainly persistant enough, but I don't feel he was the most original and he and Tesla were major competition to each other.

Many on your list are very bad guys. Secret combanations. I don't know if people are forordained to be evil?

Ezra wrote:Many on your list are very bad guys. Secret combanations. I don't know if people are forordained to be evil?

There is a reason I didn't comment on some of them :ymdevil:
Edison is the only one I know to be corrupt, of the others, I haven't read enough biography to know them yet.

Perhaps we could spell foreordained correctly? Y'all are missing the "e" after "for". It comes from the word "before" meaning that one is ordained to do something previous to the time they actually do it.

Also, if I told you what I believe the New Testament says about predestination/foreordination I'd be flamed, so I'm keeping my mouth shut (except for that hint).

I do believe that non-members, just like members, can be foreordained for certain things. One good example is Cyrus the Great of Persia. In prophecy, Isaiah spoke about him by name a long time before he was even born.

The founding fathers and many of the reformers, I believe, fall under that category as well.

I don't know about J. P. Morgan and Carnegie.

Founding fathers were foreordained, imho. JP Morgan, Rockefeller, etc, are modern day Gadiantons. Ever hear of Rothschilds?

Muerte Rosa wrote:

Lizzy60 wrote:Perhaps we could spell foreordained correctly? Y'all are missing the "e" after "for". It comes from the word "before" meaning that one is ordained to do something previous to the time they actually do it.

Also, if I told you what I believe the New Testament says about predestination/foreordination I'd be flamed, so I'm keeping my mouth shut (except for that hint).

That is how my phone spelled it :-??

You should get a smart phone.

MR wrote;
See that's my question is while most of them did do bad things.....it didn't start out that way.....they got greedy for money and power and that's what took them down. Henry Ford was a good guy in the beginning.....they let their egos take over.....

But the things they did had a HUGE positive effect on the world. Like electricity.....and the mass production and use of steel, oil, gasoline.....cars?

There were many people who thought like you in Noah's time. I guess it would be fair to say all, except Noah and his family. The ones that followed Christ had already left. I thought you knew that this world was to be the Devils domain, to test us in the here and now. After the fire, it will be under Christ's control for around 1000 years. I bet you are waiting for your spaceship to arrive. Was not Christ taken upon a mountain and offered the world and all things in it, but refused.

Jude chapter 1 makes it seem there were those foreordained for evil??? Anyone else get that while reading it? Also, Romans chapter 9

Muerte Rosa wrote:and the men who built America and in the series it focus on people like Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, John Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, and Thomas Edison, Nicola Tesla..etc and as i watched this VERY fascinating series.....a question popped up in my head, which was "Are these guys predestined or 'forordained' to accomplish the things they accomplished?"

None of those men "built" America.... listen to this excerpt from an Apostle during General Conference in April 1972.



Now please go read the book he recommended....

http://www.amazon.com/None-Dare-Call-It ... 0945001290" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

free copy here in .pdf format
http://web-beta.archive.org/web/2013092 ... 5B1%5D.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. ‘Which road do I take?’ she asked. ‘Where do you want to go?’ was his response. ‘I don’t know,’ Alice answered. ‘Then,’ said the cat, ‘it doesn’t matter.'

Muerte Rosa wrote:I was just wondering what you guys think about this. To me it seems as though there must be the hand of God in this somewhere. I mean the inventions and innovations of these guys were HUGE.

Making Babylon bigger, stronger and faster than ever. I do admire the ingenuity of these men, but for the most part, their primary motivations were money and vain ambitions. As for JP Morgan and others like him, well...if you enjoyed those Netflix shows, you should appreciate this one:



If you have short attention span, this one is more entertaining:



I think you should watch both, though. Watch them with your hubby and let me know your thoughts, MR! :-B

Muerte Rosa wrote:Me and my husband like to watch a lot of documentaries...mostly historical and scientific ones.

Considering the source of this series how do you know that what you are seeing is even true and not just revisionist history as we are all taught in the schools.? What about bogus science? I mean how can you believe it? Or does truth matter not when its fascinating or interesting? /:)

Something interesting about foreordination.

DIVERSITY AMONG MEN AS TO THEIR CAPACITY FOR RECEIVING TRUTH, &C.
REMARKS BY PRESIDENT BRIGHAM YOUNG, MADE IN THE BOWERY, GREAT SALT LAKE
CITY, SEPTEMBER 2, 1860. JOD08 Page 160

" When the wicked man forsakes his wickedness, though he has rolled it under his tongue as a sweet morsel, he can be saved. If God has foreordained certain men to certain ends, it is because he knew all things from eternity, as in the case of Pharaoh, who he knew would do wickedly; consequently, selected him to be put upon the throne. "You are determined to be wicked and to carry out the schemes of the Devil;therefore I will use you to promote my kingdom on the earth and to exalt me among men, for I know that you will do all you can against my children, against my work, and against my grace to save the children of men." God raised him to the throne of Egypt because he foresaw that in this position he could use him to the greatest advantage to His cause— not because he was foreordained to that position. "

Personally I don't think inventions were important enough to foreordain anyone to the task no matter how huge they were. They could have and would have been invented by men who were inspired to invent them and many men could have did what most these people that you mention did except for perhaps one, Tesla. Inspiration is not foreordination.

Man, Tesla was robbed. Robbed, I tell ya! [-(

So has anybody watched the videos I posted?

coachmarc wrote:Man, Tesla was robbed. Robbed, I tell ya! [-(

So has anybody watched the videos I posted?

I'm going to have to watch them later. Can't watch videos at work I'm afraid. Even between calls.

Incidentally, the videos have nothing to do with Tesla. That was just me expressing myself. The videos, however, tell the history of how men have conspired to successfully rule and how it has corrupted the US. You can buy anything in this world with money. You can easily see parallels with Book of Mormon history.

coachmarc wrote:Incidentally, the videos have nothing to do with Tesla. That was just me expressing myself. The videos, however, tell the history of how men have conspired to successfully rule and how it has corrupted the US. You can buy anything in this world with money. You can easily see parallels with Book of Mormon history.

And church history , but maybe we shouldn't go there.

Muerte Rosa wrote:Just go away

So Christ like....

Foreordination is for very important missions only and is probably only for priesthood missions. If you read what Brigham Young said about the Pharaoh, we realize that God does put people in certain positions, even evil positions, to further his work. But it is not Foreordination. Case in point is Samson who was foreordained to begin saving Israel and took the vow of a Nazerite. But as we learned through Samson even foreordination does not guarantee anything you still have choices to make.

Muerte Rosa wrote:

coachmarc wrote:Incidentally, the videos have nothing to do with Tesla. That was just me expressing myself. The videos, however, tell the history of how men have conspired to successfully rule and how it has corrupted the US. You can buy anything in this world with money. You can easily see parallels with Book of Mormon history.

Yeah i get that... What i meant by my original post is not to put them in the same category as like Washington and Colombus and others like them, But even though they were corrupt ands did some bad things....where would we be without the things they came up with? I really was just posting a question that had popped in my head a few times.....like just wondering do you think they were predestined to do the things they did with (electricity, oil, gasoline etc)? Or do you think things like that are open for anyone? That they just happened to be the ones to accomplish it? Because all these men as bad and corrupt asc they all became...they were BRILLIANT. And they didn't all start out bad but let greed take over their lives. And in most cases is what ruined them professionally.

I get you. I don't know where we'd be without modern marvels. Probably the same as any ancient civilization. The only difference between us and any of them is our technological advancement. Nephi wasn't a ship builder, but he built the most cutting edge ship of his time with tools that he personally fabricated. And that was long after Noah, who also built a cutting edge ship for his time. Then there's the bro. of Jared who had no electricity. Yet his people were able to transport themselves across an ocean along with animals and bees, all with light. The brother of Jared moved a mountain without any equipment. I don't think they were anywhere as brilliant as Tesla or Edison in the terms discussed in this thread, but neither inventor ever moved a mountain.

Then there's the Titanic. Irony at its finest. In any case, I believe we would be much, much further advanced if it weren't for greed and corruption. Priesthood power aside, I believe we would be able to heal any illness or cancer. We'd have vehicles that run on water or solar power or who knows what else. There are powers that profit from whatever market they decide to corner and monopolize.

They will not be able to stand against the fullness of the priesthood when it is finally restored.

JST Genesis 14:25 And Melchizedek lifted up his voice and blessed Abram.

26 Now Melchizedek was a man of faith, who wrought righteousness; and when a child he feared God, and stopped the mouths of lions, and quenched the violence of fire.

27 And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch,

28 It being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God;

29 And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name.

30 For God having sworn unto Enoch and unto his seed with an oath by himself; that every one being ordained after this order and calling should have power, by faith, to break mountains, to divide the seas, to dry up waters, to turn them out of their course;

31 To put at defiance the armies of nations, to divide the earth, to break every band, to stand in the presence of God; to do all things according to his will, according to his command, subdue principalities and powers; and this by the will of the Son of God which was from before the foundation of the world.

32 And men having this faith, coming up unto this order of God, were translated and taken up into heaven.

33 And now, Melchizedek was a priest of this order; therefore he obtained peace in Salem, and was called the Prince of peace.

34 And his people wrought righteousness, and obtained heaven, and sought for the city of Enoch which God had before taken, separating it from the earth, having reserved it unto the latter days, or the end of the world;

Muerte Rosa wrote:I think we probably already have Those technology's but greed is keeping them hidden.

Agreed. Some studies have us being 300 years behind the technology that actually exists and what is in the public domain. :-s

So has anyone watched the videos I posted yet? They illustrate how the secret combinations spoken of by Moroni have gotten above us.

coachmarc wrote:So has anyone watched the videos I posted yet? They illustrate how the secret combinations spoken of by Moroni have gotten above us.

I've seen both these videos before. They are very interesting--and true. I'd been thinking a lot about that lately, when my Dad was telling me that in 1952, he was a service station attendant the summer between his high school graduation and starting college in the fall. He made $100 a week, which is $920 or more in today's dollars. Now who do you know that makes $920 a week today working at a gas station? There's a lot to the story of the way that bankers have taken over our lives, and are day by day pushing us ever farther toward a complete loss of our freedoms, as they continue to tighten their power and grip over us. My only hope is the knowledge that Satan has never had the power he thinks he does, and cannot unify anything. He can only destroy. The scriptures are clear in telling us the outcome, and it isn't going to be the way the "insiders" imagine it. As has been said by one general authority, "The outcome is not in question. The score has already been posted on the scoreboard. The only thing in question is how each one of us will perform on the field."

As for Muerta's question, I don't believe anyone is "foreordained" to invent things, and as has been mentioned already, be careful--The History Channel is not exactly a good source of historical truth. It may just be that these men had inquisitive minds and pushed the limits. One thing that is true, however, is that they couldn't have come up with any of these ideas unless the Lord allowed it, or even somewhat inspired their minds. All of the great inventions of humankind are given with the purpose of increasing the spread of the gospel, and are, according to Joseph Fielding Smith, possible because the gospel is restored!

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith “I maintain that had there been no restoration of the gospel, and no organization of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there would have been no radio; there would have been no airplane, and there would not have been the wonderful discoveries in medicine, chemistry, electricity, and the many other things wherein the world has been benefited by such discoveries. Under such conditions these blessings would have been withheld, for they belong to the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times of which the restoration of the gospel and the organization of the Church constitute the central point, from which radiates the Spirit of the Lord throughout the world. The inspiration of the Lord has gone out and takes hold of the minds of men, though they know it not, and they are directed by the Lord. In this manner he brings them into his service that his purposes and his righteousness, in due time, may be supreme on the earth.

“Now let me say briefly that I do not believe for one moment that these discoveries have come by chance, or that they have come because of superior intelligence possessed by men today over those who lived in ages that are past. They have come and are coming because the time is ripe, because the Lord has willed it, and because he has poured out his Spirit on all flesh” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1926, p. 117).

Ezra wrote:Many on your list are very bad guys. Secret combanations. I don't know if people are forordained to be evil?

Oh for heaven's sake.