LDS Freedom Forum

Every charge thrown at pornography can be leveled at modern consumeristic media in general.

1) Porn sets unrealistic body expectations. Really? I have seen interviews with major porn stars on alternative media sites and they come in far more realistic shapes than women in the fashion industry. Some are flat chested and all seem to have more meat on their bones than one sees in photoshop models on women's magazines.

2) Porn creates an unrealistic view of sex. What, that women like sex as much as men? My experience is that women are far more sexual than men, unless they have been taught that sex is bad, or that if they show their shoulders they may as well take their clothes off and twerk. You know what creates unrealistic views of sex? All those women's magazines sold in stores throughout the western world.

3) Porn stars are forced to be there. Yes, some do go into the business because there is no work out there (thanks Clinton, Bush and Obama). However, some do it to be able to have lots of sex and get paid for it.

4) Porn cheapens sex. I believe that, but one must admit the apex of modern capitalism is to make something as special and intimate as sex into a consumer commodity.

5) The porn industry is something that creeps around in the shadows of American society. The fact is that there are multi-billion dollar hotel chains and telecommunication firms make a ton of money from this industry. Who do you think mainstreamed porn into today's middle-class society? For more info on this please watch the documentary "American Porn" on PBS Frontline's site.

6) Porn causes divorce. Not that much. Here is a graph that is quite telling: http://i1.wp.com/www.austin-institute.o ... ivorce.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Original article here: http://www.austin-institute.org/2014/04 ... n-america/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Porn plays an almost insignificant role in divorce in the general population with only about 1% of men and 7% of women saying that it was in any way a part of the reason for seeking divorce. While not listed here I have read that obesity of one spouse is a major reason for winding up cheating. I find it interesting that one of the articles citing the danger of porn viewing on brain activity used over-eating as the comparison to chemical changes in the brain while watching porn. Weird how few people will jump on people with obesity and tell them they are addicted to food and need to repent.

Fiannan wrote:Every charge thrown at pornography can be leveled at modern consumeristic media in general.

1) Porn sets unrealistic body expectations. Really? I have seen interviews with major porn stars on alternative media sites and they come in far more realistic shapes than women in the fashion industry. Some are flat chested and all seem to have more meat on their bones than one sees in photoshop models on women's magazines.

2) Porn creates an unrealistic view of sex. What, that women like sex as much as men? My experience is that women are far more sexual than men, unless they have been taught that sex is bad, or that if they show their shoulders they may as well take their clothes off and twerk. You know what creates unrealistic views of sex? All those women's magazines sold in stores throughout the western world.

3) Porn stars are forced to be there. Yes, some do go into the business because there is no work out there (thanks Clinton, Bush and Obama). However, some do it to be able to have lots of sex and get paid for it.

4) Porn cheapens sex. I believe that, but one must admit the apex of modern capitalism is to make something as special and intimate as sex into a consumer commodity.

5) The porn industry is something that creeps around in the shadows of American society. The fact is that there are multi-billion dollar hotel chains and telecommunication firms make a ton of money from this industry. Who do you think mainstreamed porn into today's middle-class society? For more info on this please watch the documentary "American Porn" on PBS Frontline's site.

6) Porn causes divorce. Not that much. Here is a graph that is quite telling: http://i1.wp.com/www.austin-institute.o ... ivorce.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Original article here: http://www.austin-institute.org/2014/04 ... n-america/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Porn plays an almost insignificant role in divorce in the general population with only about 1% of men and 7% of women saying that it was in any way a part of the reason for seeking divorce. While not listed here I have read that obesity of one spouse is a major reason for winding up cheating. I find it interesting that one of the articles citing the danger of porn viewing on brain activity used over-eating as the comparison to chemical changes in the brain while watching porn. Weird how few people will jump on people with obesity and tell them they are addicted to food and need to repent.

Sorry. Speaking of obesity. I couldn't resist posting this video about how obese people are causing global warming. I hope I construed your comment correctly and that it adds to your comment, Fiannan. Maybe FAT people are a real menace and porn addicts get to go passed go and collect two hundred bucks.

I've been waiting to share my story

One day in my living room, while eating a chocolate donut, I began to choke and eventually died. I remember Satan standing in front of me. He reached out his clawed hand and wiped the chocolate off my chin and licked it with his slobbery forked tongue.

He then transported me to hell on what appeared to be a flying slice of pizza. It smelled so good, I rolled around in the perfectly melted cheese and was covered with sauce and parmesan, but I could not take a bite.

Upon arrival in hell I saw many things. Donuts were tied on strings and fat people were jumping trying to get a bite. I saw a lake of fire and brimstone with fat people swimming in it. Satan told me that the lake was available to fat people every Wedensday, he called it
" Whale Wednesday", and explained that the water level had to be lowered on that day because of previous flooding.

I then heard ringing! The " Devil's Donut" truck was coming. I ran as fast as my kankles allowed, my thighs were rubbing together and became like a hot match. Soon the truck faded off in the distance with no one getting a donut. Hell, pure torture, I would do anything for those donuts with the delightful sprinkles on top. I then saw a sign that read, " Employment available, only experience required is knowledge of operating a deep fat fryers." My heart began to pound as I wondered where they got the fat!! I became so emotional I wanted to eat, I wanted anything but deep fried onion rings.

Soon Satan gave me an offer. He told me everything I had learned on earth was wrong, that pornography and other sins were not wrong, only being fat sent people to hell. I was transported back to earth, finished the other 11 donuts, even the one lodged in my throat, and began to keep my promise. I started lectures and began writing a book. At every meeting we had a chocolate fountain with fools, I mean followers, putting their head under it to lap up the chocolate. I started following religious forums gathering more fools, I mean followers and soon became very popular. I often wondered if Satan was lying to me, but what the hell!

If you would like to know more, my book will be out soon, its titled,

" I would go to hell for a donut with sprinkles on top."

The connection to obesity was drawn from the link Thomas shared:

Although the key elements of hypofrontal syndromes—impulsivity, compulsivity, emotional lability, impaired judgment—are well described, much of the process is still unknown. One emerging aspect of these hypofrontal states is their similarity to findings in addictive patients. Addressing hypofrontality, Fowler et al. noted, “studies of addicts show reduced cellular activity in the orbitofrontal cortex, a brain area…[relied upon]…to make strategic, rather than impulsive, decisions. Patients with traumatic injuries to this area of the brain display problems–aggressiveness, poor judgment of future consequences, inability to inhibit inappropriate responses that are similar to those observed in substance abusers.”[8] (emphasis added).

.....

Even more instructive are similar findings seen with the abuse of a normal biological behavior, eating, leading to addiction and obesity. In 2006, a VBM study was published looking specifically at obesity, and the results were very similar to the cocaine and methamphetamine studies.[20] The obesity study demonstrated multiple areas of volume loss, particularly in the frontal lobes, areas associated with judgment and control. This study is significant in demonstrating visible damage in a natural endogenous addiction, as opposed to an exogenous drug addiction. Furthermore, it is easy to accept intuitively because the effects of overeating can be seen in the obese person.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050060/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Disgusting

Fiannan wrote:The connection to obesity was drawn from the link Thomas shared:

Although the key elements of hypofrontal syndromes—impulsivity, compulsivity, emotional lability, impaired judgment—are well described, much of the process is still unknown. One emerging aspect of these hypofrontal states is their similarity to findings in addictive patients. Addressing hypofrontality, Fowler et al. noted, “studies of addicts show reduced cellular activity in the orbitofrontal cortex, a brain area…[relied upon]…to make strategic, rather than impulsive, decisions. Patients with traumatic injuries to this area of the brain display problems–aggressiveness, poor judgment of future consequences, inability to inhibit inappropriate responses that are similar to those observed in substance abusers.”[8] (emphasis added).

.....

Even more instructive are similar findings seen with the abuse of a normal biological behavior, eating, leading to addiction and obesity. In 2006, a VBM study was published looking specifically at obesity, and the results were very similar to the cocaine and methamphetamine studies.[20] The obesity study demonstrated multiple areas of volume loss, particularly in the frontal lobes, areas associated with judgment and control. This study is significant in demonstrating visible damage in a natural endogenous addiction, as opposed to an exogenous drug addiction. Furthermore, it is easy to accept intuitively because the effects of overeating can be seen in the obese person.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050060/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again, sorry. Not only did I mess up, I also hijacked the thread. My point was to make people see just how ridiculous it is to look at things the way they do. I think the real problem with global warming is because of all the methane flatulence coming from all people. :-ss

Ted Bundy? I remember, I grew up in Florida, We turned off the lights when he got executed, we wanted him to have the full experience, it was our way of contributing. Nothing more needs to be said about this piece of trash. He's dead. Let his actions and memory die with him.

???? Why so much emphasis on pornography nowadays?

???? Why so much emphasis on pornography nowadays?

????WHY so much justification of pornography among Priesthood Holders?

2 Nephi 13
9 The show of their countenance doth witness against them, and doth declare their sin to be even as Sodom, and they cannot hide it. Wo unto their souls, for they have rewarded evil unto themselves!

Pornography fuels lust and so it's virtually impossible to have self control if you choose to view pornography.

I remember hearing President Ed J Pinegar saying that Bundy had gone from viewing magazines to more explicit images and then extreme material including sadism and torture. It was this that lead him to want to act this out and murder these girls.

i want to just add that in the age of the internet, pornography is just as big a problem for women and girls than it is for men and boys. I know many LDS women want to maintain the myth that lust and porn is the domain of men but it's just not true.

Thomas wrote:I think a lot of people are living with a false sense of security. The focus on porn is not helpful if you believe you are closer to salvation than those that view porn.

The standard is perfection or total fail. There is no in between. All sin is equal in the eyes of God.

James 2: 10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

None of us will live up to this standard so even if you live your whole life as a paragon of virtue, one stray thought condemns you to the same fate as the adulterer. That is one reason I dislike the focus on porn. Focus on constant repentance. The only chance any of us have is to bow down in humility and have Christ wash us clean.

The focus on the sins of others does nothing for our salvation. The notion that porn is sin worse than other sin leads those who have a problem with it to believe they are not eligible for the atonement.

We will all reap the whirlwind as long as we have a self righteous standard. All sin must be gone from our lives, including the judgment of others.

:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

Thomas wrote:There is a shaming in our culture and even a justification of divorce over this problem.

I think feeling superior or safe in the thought of our own righteousness is a much more dangerous and common problem.

Our culture focuses on a few commandments and activity in church as the path to salvation when Joseph taught, we must be exactly what Christ is or not be saved.

All are fallen. We all have the same great divide between us and Christ.

This may help:

Mosiah 2:20-26
20 I say unto you, my brethren, that if you should render all the thanks and praise which your whole soul has power to possess, to that God who has created you, and has kept and preserved you, and has caused that ye should rejoice, and has granted that ye should live in peace one with another—
21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.
22 And behold, all that he requires of you is to keep his commandments; and he has promised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land; and he never doth vary from that which he hath said; therefore, if ye do keep his commandments he doth bless you and prosper you.
23 And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him.
24 And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast?
25 And now I ask, can ye say aught of yourselves? I answer you, Nay. Ye cannot say that ye are even as much as the dust of the earth; yet ye were created of the dust of the earth; but behold, it belongeth to him who created you.
26 And I, even I, whom ye call your king, am ano better than ye yourselves are; for I am also of the dust. And ye behold that I am old, and am about to yield up this mortal frame to its mother earth.

If it weren't for Christ's atoning sacrifice allowing mercy to satisfy justice, we all would go to hell. I like the phrase "Ye cannot say that ye are even as much as the dust of the earth."

Porn addicts, whatever qualifies one as such, may want to consider this:

Mosiah 11:25
25 And except they repent in sackcloth and ashes, and cry mightily to the Lord their God, I will not hear their prayers, neither will I deliver them out of their afflictions; and thus saith the Lord, and thus hath he commanded me.

Without repentance, the default setting is hell.

SAM wrote:Well, I apologize for posting it then. I tried to explain that I didn't think everyone who viewed porn would be a serial killer. That was not my intent. I agree with Thomas that all sin causes a rift between ourselves and God. I just think it's good to be aware of potential effects and consequences of any sins. Porn desensitizes the viewers and dehumanizes the actors, but no it's not the same as murder.

What about the murder of one's own soul due to sin? The murdering of someone else is one thing, but the self loathing, shame, hurt, remorse, pain, torment, low self esteem, and the stain of sin kills the soul. That's why we have repentance and turning our attention to living righteously rather than continuing in damnation of one's self.

I mean this does have merit, no?

jockeybox wrote:

Bee Prepared wrote: jockeybox,

Sexual imputity is a serious sin, lets not compare apples and oranges here. Patterns of sexual misconduct often have roots in something more than simple disobedience, They all are far more an affront to God.

I don't disagree with you. Show me a sin that doesn't have serious ramification.

Maybe a scripture will help in the matter. Check out this verse 2 Nephi 28:

15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

See that. Wise. Learned. Pride. False doctrine. Whoredoms. All of them get a three-fold "wo" condemnation, and all are thrust to hell. That's pretty serious, don't you think?

So please be fair to those that view porn and with those that are prideful (do you posses pride?). We're all going to the same place, unless Christs grace saves us.

Could pride (or any of those listed) damage a marriage as much as porn. My gut says yes.

This corroborates your position nicely.

Alma 5:28
28 Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life.

Please read verses 26-33, let alone the whole chapter. Therein is mentioned pride, envy and mocking our brother, and that we need to have the image of God in our countenance.

buffalo_girl wrote:

???? Why so much emphasis on pornography nowadays?

????WHY so much justification of pornography among Priesthood Holders?

2 Nephi 13
9 The show of their countenance doth witness against them, and doth declare their sin to be even as Sodom, and they cannot hide it. Wo unto their souls, for they have rewarded evil unto themselves!

There is no justification, only one lying to themselves and trying to cover their poor choices with a smile. A wolf in sheep's clothing, we might say. How many porn addicts teach the word of God each Sunday, in Sunday School, HPG, EQ, GD or as a talk from the pulpit?
But we should show love to those in this predicament and encourage them to seek a mighty change. We cannot give anyone hope and a desire to clean up their act by mocking and scorning them.

And here is a warning to those that still hold bad feelings toward someone that has repented:

Mosiah 26:31
31 And ye shall also forgive one another your trespasses; for verily I say unto you, he that forgiveth not his neighbor’s trespasses when he says that he repents, the same hath brought himself under condemnation.

So it is very important that we do not judge, rather to show love and compassion, to encourage repentance.

Desert Roses wrote:I read this entire thread, hoping that at least one person would discuss the immense problem of pornography on the relationship between men and women in general. Ted Bundy notwithstanding (though I think he was excusing his heinous crimes), pornography encourages viewers (male or female) to see females as objects intended for sexual gratification; it encourages both genders to have severely warped view of the human body and it's normalcy. Men begin to become frustrated and dissatisfied with real women whose bodies are nothing like those in the videos/photos they see; women begin to hate their own bodies because they are not like those in the video/photos. Both genders become dissatisfied with their partner's sexual performance--it very rarely measures up to that in pornographic portrayals. This is just the beginning! Pornography is very damaging to both genders' view of themselves and others, and can be very destructive to relationships that no longer match that warped view of things. There is no room in pornographic portrayals for compassion, for patience, for love that puts the partner's happiness first, or for so many of the things that are necessary to a truly satisfying sexual relationship.

I don't think the biggest danger of pornography lies in its power to cause men to move to violence; I believe it is in the warped, unrealistic view it offers, and its addictive nature, bringing men (and increasingly women) back again and again to feel an iintense pleasure sensation that cannot be matched by reality.

I am not in favor of pornography. But I do see a double standard. If you really care about relationships, you should be against all issues that cause problems. But instead, we are only against the problems that are primarily those of men. While they will deny it, women see porn as competition, and they don't want to compete. They want to have complete control over their man's sexuality. If they were really worried about relationships, they would beat up women over their lusts that damage relationships. But they don't want to do that, as it would mean less power and control.

If we were so concerned about the threats to relationships, along with the war on porn, we would have a war on consumerism and materialism. Women initiate most divorces, and the leading cause of divorce is money. The only divorces I know among my church-going relatives were the wives leaving due to husbands that didn't make enough money. Now how is it that those women were not shamed into staying with their husbands? Why was there no disciplinary action taken against them for their lustful behavior? What kind of eternal marriage ends when finances get tough?

This is evil!!!! This is INEXCUSABLE TO TAKE DADS AWAY FROM THEIR CHILDREN OVER MONEY, YET NOBODY CARES!!!!!! It is so much bigger of an issue if dad sneaks a peak at porn once a year, right!!!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

The hypocrisy makes me sick, as does the damage to my relatives kids by b*****s that needed more money to keep up their status.

Yes, it is just fine to divorce, as long as you're not looking at porn! In the eyes of the church, one dirty thought is worse than leaving your husband over money. LIke I said, this is evil.

BenMcCrea wrote:Pornography fuels lust and so it's virtually impossible to have self control if you choose to view pornography.

I remember hearing President Ed J Pinegar saying that Bundy had gone from viewing magazines to more explicit images and then extreme material including sadism and torture. It was this that lead him to want to act this out and murder these girls.

i want to just add that in the age of the internet, pornography is just as big a problem for women and girls than it is for men and boys. I know many LDS women want to maintain the myth that lust and porn is the domain of men but it's just not true.

If you're so worried about lust, then as I said, I assume you fight against lusting for material things, right? Since most divorces result from women lusting for more money and stuff, I assume you support a ban on 'porn' like advertisements and billboards that entice us to buy more. How about some shame for looking at advertisements - maybe women should hide them under their mattress. Perhaps there should be 'anti-shopping conferences'.

But I doubt you really care. You only care about the problems of men, and maintaining control.

Alma 5:53

And now my beloved brethren, I say unto you, can ye withstand these sayings; yea can ye lay aside these things, and trample the Holy one under your feet; yea, can ye be puffed up in the pride of your hearts; will ye still persist in the wearing of costly apparel and setting your hearts upon the vain things of the world, upon your riches?

Alma 5: 54

Will ye persist in supposing that ye are better than one another; will ye persist in the persecution of your brethren, who humble themselves and walk after the holy order of God, wherewith they have been brought into this church, having been sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and they do bring forth works which are meet for repentance...

I wonder when there will be this kind of effort to get members to control their lust for materialism. Nice houses, cars, clothes, etc, etc. Why not live like the Amish? Lust!

Saw this in Rexburg a few years ago. I live in a remote area of Washington, and people would laugh their heads off at this. In our town, the only banner is for the annual fisherman's breakfast. I can't help but think this kind of nonsense just promotes perversion. The tabernacle was probably full of people looking for new sources of pornography they shouldn't be looking at.

Djinwa,
There are countless ways people lust and get their priorities mixed up. It's true.
And again, I'd suggest you figure out how to reconnect with your wife - to love her in ways that are meaningful to her - and she'll be more likely to love you in meaningful ways too.

Pornography is often addictive and problematic.
There are other problems like greed but the topic of this thread is warning of pornography problems.

Btw- Re: OP
Ted Bundy had a very troubled childhood besides his violent porn addiction.

Another thing that makes me sick, are the members who have no problem sending out young men off to far away lands to get their limbs blown off and become mentally deranged experiencing the horrors of a useless war. But hey, they will return in honor, as long as they don't look at porn! I mean, it might lead to death, divorce, suicide, and debilitated for a lifetime, but we have to have our priorities straight. No porn, but war is fine.

Again, where is the outcry against this nightmare? I heard that 22 veterans a day are committing suicide. Is it from porn, or war?

Of course, we don't really care, since most of them are men, and men are supposed to suck it up and be tough.

djinwa wrote:

Desert Roses wrote:I read this entire thread, hoping that at least one person would discuss the immense problem of pornography on the relationship between men and women in general. Ted Bundy notwithstanding (though I think he was excusing his heinous crimes), pornography encourages viewers (male or female) to see females as objects intended for sexual gratification; it encourages both genders to have severely warped view of the human body and it's normalcy. Men begin to become frustrated and dissatisfied with real women whose bodies are nothing like those in the videos/photos they see; women begin to hate their own bodies because they are not like those in the video/photos. Both genders become dissatisfied with their partner's sexual performance--it very rarely measures up to that in pornographic portrayals. This is just the beginning! Pornography is very damaging to both genders' view of themselves and others, and can be very destructive to relationships that no longer match that warped view of things. There is no room in pornographic portrayals for compassion, for patience, for love that puts the partner's happiness first, or for so many of the things that are necessary to a truly satisfying sexual relationship.

I don't think the biggest danger of pornography lies in its power to cause men to move to violence; I believe it is in the warped, unrealistic view it offers, and its addictive nature, bringing men (and increasingly women) back again and again to feel an iintense pleasure sensation that cannot be matched by reality.

I am not in favor of pornography. But I do see a double standard. If you really care about relationships, you should be against all issues that cause problems. But instead, we are only against the problems that are primarily those of men. While they will deny it, women see porn as competition, and they don't want to compete. They want to have complete control over their man's sexuality. If they were really worried about relationships, they would beat up women over their lusts that damage relationships. But they don't want to do that, as it would mean less power and control.

If we were so concerned about the threats to relationships, along with the war on porn, we would have a war on consumerism and materialism. Women initiate most divorces, and the leading cause of divorce is money. The only divorces I know among my church-going relatives were the wives leaving due to husbands that didn't make enough money. Now how is it that those women were not shamed into staying with their husbands? Why was there no disciplinary action taken against them for their lustful behavior? What kind of eternal marriage ends when finances get tough?

This is evil!!!! This is INEXCUSABLE TO TAKE DADS AWAY FROM THEIR CHILDREN OVER MONEY, YET NOBODY CARES!!!!!! It is so much bigger of an issue if dad sneaks a peak at porn once a year, right!!!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

The hypocrisy makes me sick, as does the damage to my relatives kids by b*****s that needed more money to keep up their status.

Yes, it is just fine to divorce, as long as you're not looking at porn! In the eyes of the church, one dirty thought is worse than leaving your husband over money. LIke I said, this is evil.

Very good point, I must say. It all boils down to the mote and eye story.

I ask, just what does it mean to have VIRTUE garnish our thoughts unceasingly?
Is virtue limited to the allowance of some sin and not others?
Is virtue a coverup for sin?

Let's see what scripture tells us:

Doctrine and Covenants 121:45
45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.

WOW! Having virtue garnish our thoughts promises us that we will have confidence in the presence of God.
And the doctrine of the priesthood will distil upon our souls as the dews from heaven.

Sounds like virtue, and not sin in any of its ugly forms, is needed and required for salvation in God's kingdom, and to stand uprightly in the presence of God. We would also have the image of God in our own countenance.

Alma 5:14
14 And now behold, I ask of you, my brethren of the church, have ye spiritually been born of God? Have ye received his image in your countenances? Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts?

Alma 5:19
19 I say unto you, can ye look up to God at that day with a pure heart and clean hands? I say unto you, can you look up, having the image of God engraven upon your countenances?

Virtue is everything.

djinwa wrote:I wonder when there will be this kind of effort to get members to control their lust for materialism. Nice houses, cars, clothes, etc, etc. Why not live like the Amish? Lust!

Saw this in Rexburg a few years ago. I live in a remote area of Washington, and people would laugh their heads off at this. In our town, the only banner is for the annual fisherman's breakfast. I can't help but think this kind of nonsense just promotes perversion. The tabernacle was probably full of people looking for new sources of pornography they shouldn't be looking at.

I feel deep sympathy for problems like you have described. You have obviously tasted the bitter cup, leaving an extremely bitter taste in your mouth. Your children have been affected and your very life changed. What a horrible experience.

I think of Christ, He was spat upon, He was struck and scourged, He was offered vinegar and gall as he thirsted. In Gethsemane His agonies were so great that He began to bleed at every one of thousands of His pores. He pled with the Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt” (Mark 14:36).

This was pleading from a suffering Son in the deepest possible distress.

We have trials such trials such as experiencing illness, aloneness, persecution, betrayal, irony, poverty, false witness. Jesus acknowledged, “For this cause came I into the world” (John 18:37). We also came “into the world” to pass through our particularized portions of the mortal experience.

Though in a much smaller measure, we too may suffer the intensified, interactive pain of “body and spirit”—physical and mental anguish (D&C 19:18). He will comfort us and reassure us, the burdens may not lifted from us, But through His atoning sacrifice, He will help us to bear them.

djinwa wrote:Another thing that makes me sick, are the members who have no problem sending out young men off to far away lands to get their limbs blown off and become mentally deranged experiencing the horrors of a useless war. But hey, they will return in honor, as long as they don't look at porn! I mean, it might lead to death, divorce, suicide, and debilitated for a lifetime, but we have to have our priorities straight. No porn, but war is fine.

Again, where is the outcry against this nightmare? I heard that 22 veterans a day are committing suicide. Is it from porn, or war?

Of course, we don't really care, since most of them are men, and men are supposed to suck it up and be tough.

I'm with you on that, Djinwa.
That is partially why I detest harmful herd mentalities.
Who would send their son off to kill on their own?
What sane mother would kill her own child within her without a herd telling her it's just a "parasite"?
We each struggle enough with mistakes and sins but when you add negative peer pressure, including excessive shame, it makes it so much more difficult to do good.

They say that suicide kills more than war - and war's killed a lot!
There are so many battles to be fought - but of the spirit.
At some point, ideally we sense the obligation or "call" to help as we are best prepared to help.

And I believe a real man who's brave and courageous is so not only regarding integrity but also in matters of the heart. It takes guts to make yourself vulnerable to FEEL.
My heart feels for soldiers from physical or spiritual battles who are beaten in spirit. I hope they get help first from God, then from others - and feel free to message me.