LDS Freedom Forum

Bee Prepared wrote:
Can you really blow it out of proportion, when it damages marriages, and causes one to lose the Spirit of Christ and forfeit the power of the priesthood?

You may want to reference what the scriptures teach about the actions that forfeit preisthood. I'm not justifying pornography, but there are far more subtle ways preisthood connection is severed.

What sin doesn't cause one to lose the "spirit of Christ".

jockeybox wrote:What sin doesn't cause one to lose the "spirit of Christ".

Can I get an hearty amen brothers and sisters?

jockeybox wrote:

Bee Prepared wrote:
Can you really blow it out of proportion, when it damages marriages, and causes one to lose the Spirit of Christ and forfeit the power of the priesthood?

You may want to reference what the scriptures teach about the actions that forfeit preisthood. I'm not justifying pornography, but there are far more subtle ways preisthood connection is severed.

What sin doesn't cause one to lose the "spirit of Christ".[/quote

jockeybox,

Sexual imputity is a serious sin, lets not compare apples and oranges here. Patterns of sexual misconduct often have roots in something more than simple disobedience, They all are far more an affront to God.

Phoenixstar117 wrote:

jockeybox wrote:What sin doesn't cause one to lose the "spirit of Christ".

Can I get an hearty amen brothers and sisters?

:p, refer to above post.

The thing is, I would compare pornography addiction much more to sickness than simply sin. Sin it is, but it falls into the much more broad category of mental sickness than anything else. There is a lot of evidence supporting that regular use affects the brain same as a drugs or alcohol stimulation. It especially affects people or childeren who are ADD/ADHD because it serves to stimulate the same areas of the prefrontal cortex which are normally inhibited by the disorder. Usually people with these disorders have a surpressed pre-frontal cortex which can be treated with enhanced levels of dopamine, hence the widespread drug and alcohol abuse among such people.

A really good book I read last year: http://www.amazon.com/Healing-ADD-Revis ... 0425269973" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT:Grammar

I pray that those who consider viewing the sexual acts of others and/or appraising the most recent stunning female/male body as something akin to a harmless spectator sport will realize that there are consequences to such 'light mindedness'.

You will reap the whirlwind.

I would frankly teach my children that watching any public display of humans engaging in sex is as dangerous and ultimately destructive as chronic exposure to radiation.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with healthy human sexuality within the bounds of a loving and committed marriage. That relationship was never intended to be displayed on the front lawn for your neighbors to enjoy and rate.

Who are these men and women, boys and girls who engage in sexual acts for private amusement in dark places? Do you ever consider what their lives are like?

Who has said, it is harmless?

I think a lot of people are living with a false sense of security. The focus on porn is not helpful if you believe you are closer to salvation than those that view porn.

The standard is perfection or total fail. There is no in between. All sin is equal in the eyes of God.

James 2: 10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

None of us will live up to this standard so even if you live your whole life as a paragon of virtue, one stray thought condemns you to the same fate as the adulterer. That is one reason I dislike the focus on porn. Focus on constant repentance. The only chance any of us have is to bow down in humility and have Christ wash us clean.

The focus on the sins of others does nothing for our salvation. The notion that porn is sin worse than other sin leads those who have a problem with it to believe they are not eligible for the atonement.

We will all reap the whirlwind as long as we have a self righteous standard. All sin must be gone from our lives, including the judgment of others.

I read this entire thread, hoping that at least one person would discuss the immense problem of pornography on the relationship between men and women in general. Ted Bundy notwithstanding (though I think he was excusing his heinous crimes), pornography encourages viewers (male or female) to see females as objects intended for sexual gratification; it encourages both genders to have severely warped view of the human body and it's normalcy. Men begin to become frustrated and dissatisfied with real women whose bodies are nothing like those in the videos/photos they see; women begin to hate their own bodies because they are not like those in the video/photos. Both genders become dissatisfied with their partner's sexual performance--it very rarely measures up to that in pornographic portrayals. This is just the beginning! Pornography is very damaging to both genders' view of themselves and others, and can be very destructive to relationships that no longer match that warped view of things. There is no room in pornographic portrayals for compassion, for patience, for love that puts the partner's happiness first, or for so many of the things that are necessary to a truly satisfying sexual relationship.

I don't think the biggest danger of pornography lies in its power to cause men to move to violence; I believe it is in the warped, unrealistic view it offers, and its addictive nature, bringing men (and increasingly women) back again and again to feel an iintense pleasure sensation that cannot be matched by reality.

I agree with everything you said, Desert Rose. What I disagree with is the notion that t,hose who watch porn should be discarded or made to feel inferior.

Thomas wrote:I agree with everything you said, Desert Rose. What I disagree with is the notion that t,hose who watch porn should be discarded or made to feel inferior.

No one can "make" anyone feel inferior. Usually, in my experience, those feelings come from knowing you are doing something wrong but don't want to admit it.

There is a shaming in our culture and even a justification of divorce over this problem.

I think feeling superior or safe in the thought of our own righteousness is a much more dangerous and common problem.

Our culture focuses on a few commandments and activity in church as the path to salvation when Joseph taught, we must be exactly what Christ is or not be saved.

All are fallen. We all have the same great divide between us and Christ.

The focus on the sins of others does nothing for our salvation.

You assume I am 'focusing on the sins of others' because I judge them inferior spiritually.

I hope to God, those who intruded their value system on a 5-year-old child will find redemption. Sadly, we are living with the corrosive fallout imposed upon our entire family by the 'sins of others'. That puts this issue in an entirely different light.

The notion that porn is sin worse than other sin leads those who have a problem with it to believe they are not eligible for the atonement.

Yes, indeed! Perhaps that is a VERY good reason to consider pornography with the gravity it demands. Our son has struggled with feeling ineligible for the Atonement since he was a child in Primary.

When you have experienced the nightmare we have, get back with me on this issue.

All sin must be gone from our lives, including the judgment of others.

Wow! Talk about creating a stumbling block to the Atonement!

It is apparent to me that you refuse to address the spiritual, emotional, and even physical damage sustained by those who are living in the real world of pornography.

An individual's complicity in participating as a casual 'viewer' sustains & perpetuates the EVIL that very real people - on the other side of that camera from you - are living day in and day out. WHO advocates for them? WHAT about their Redemption?

I wish you well in your 'view' of sin. Hope it works for you.

Perhaps it is better to face the fact that you need Christ right now then to cross over the veil and find yourself on the wrong side of things.

Perfection is the standard. Are you perfect?

Why do you assume I endorse porn? What would you like me to do, set my hair on fire?

All sin keeps us from Christ so focusing on one sin leaves you far short of the mark.

It is not all to be done in this lifetime. Move from grace to grace.

I am sorry your son has issues with porn. Get angry at God about it not me. My son has many issues as well. All I can do is love him and forgive him. Trying to magnify the gravity of his sins by comparing him to Ted Bundy is counter productive.

Bundy may have crossed over the threshold of full forgiveness. My son has not nor has yours.

We need to foster a culture of repentance and forgiveness of sin not the demonization of our loved ones caught up in this problem.

Sorry if I refuse to buy into the porn equals mass murder paradigm. I try to bolster the self esteem of my son at every opportunity. Why would I try to tell him he committed a sin equal to murder.

Some people.

Did anyone here equate viewing porn to murder? I haven't seen that here, just a discussion of some possible effects.

SAM wrote:Did anyone here equate viewing porn to murder? I haven't seen that here, just a discussion of some possible effects.

yes.

Where? At least twice on this thread I've explained that I don't think everyone who watches porn will become Ted Bundy.

SAM wrote:Where? At least twice on this thread I've explained that I don't think everyone who watches porn will become Ted Bundy.

The video on the OP. Ted was just a victim of porn, etc.

Well, I apologize for posting it then. I tried to explain that I didn't think everyone who viewed porn would be a serial killer. That was not my intent. I agree with Thomas that all sin causes a rift between ourselves and God. I just think it's good to be aware of potential effects and consequences of any sins. Porn desensitizes the viewers and dehumanizes the actors, but no it's not the same as murder.

My son has many issues as well. All I can do is love him and forgive him. Trying to magnify the gravity of his sins by comparing him to Ted Bundy is counter productive.

Bundy may have crossed over the threshold of full forgiveness. My son has not nor has yours.

We need to foster a culture of repentance and forgiveness of sin not the demonization of our loved ones caught up in this problem.

Sorry if I refuse to buy into the porn equals mass murder paradigm. I try to bolster the self esteem of my son at every opportunity. Why would I try to tell him he committed a sin equal to murder.

Mmmm....there is an underlying grief here.

No one is suggesting we compare our sons to Ted Bundy.

The fact that our children are being maimed and wounded by life's experiences - whether from personal choices or from those imposed by others suggests - NOT that we condemn them - rather, that we do all within our power as parents to assist them in the healing process by leading them to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

The repentance/conversion process requires a fully conscious understanding of evil as the very real power it is before we can fully wake up to its danger and comprehend the need to change course.

Alma did not spare words with Corianton. At the same time, he shared many of the most profound Gospel truths with him - even over those he shared with Corianton's brothers.

Corianton didn't retreat into shame and self defeat for the simple reason that his father's love and forthright communication assisted in redirecting him to a more productive effort.

Had Corianton been 'hell bent' on chasing after the Zoromite exotic dancer after being 'corrected' by his presiding Priesthood Authority, I'm not sure what the outcome would have been. (If he were my son, I would continue to love him, set the best example of living the Gospel as I could, and hope & pray for that day when he would look homeward for the peace for which his heart yearned.)

As it was...Corianton returned with full commitment to a righteous life.

Alma 49
30 Yea, and there was continual peace among them, and exceedingly great prosperity in the church because of their heed and diligence which they gave unto the word of God, which was declared unto them by Helaman, and Shiblon, and Corianton, and Ammon and his brethren, yea, and by all those who had been ordained by the holy order of God, being baptized unto repentance, and sent forth to preach among the people.

Alma 63
10 And it came to pass in the thirty and ninth year of the reign of the judges, Shiblon died also, and Corianton had gone forth to the land northward in a ship, to carry forth provisions unto the people who had gone forth into that land.

Bee Prepared wrote: jockeybox,

Sexual imputity is a serious sin, lets not compare apples and oranges here. Patterns of sexual misconduct often have roots in something more than simple disobedience, They all are far more an affront to God.

I don't disagree with you. Show me a sin that doesn't have serious ramification.

Maybe a scripture will help in the matter. Check out this verse 2 Nephi 28:

15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

See that. Wise. Learned. Pride. False doctrine. Whoredoms. All of them get a three-fold "wo" condemnation, and all are thrust to hell. That's pretty serious, don't you think?

So please be fair to those that view porn and with those that are prideful (do you posses pride?). We're all going to the same place, unless Christs grace saves us.

Could pride (or any of those listed) damage a marriage as much as porn. My gut says yes.

jockeybox wrote:

Bee Prepared wrote: jockeybox,

Sexual imputity is a serious sin, lets not compare apples and oranges here. Patterns of sexual misconduct often have roots in something more than simple disobedience, They all are far more an affront to God.

I don't disagree with you. Show me a sin that doesn't have serious ramification.

Maybe a scripture will help in the matter. Check out this verse 2 Nephi 28:

15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

See that. Wise. Learned. Pride. False doctrine. Whoredoms. All of them get a three-fold "wo" condemnation, and all are thrust to hell. That's pretty serious, don't you think?

So please be fair to those that view porn and with those that are prideful (do you posses pride?). We're all going to the same place, unless Christs grace saves us.

Could pride (or any of those listed) damage a marriage as much as porn. My gut says yes.

Do I posess pride? This isn't about me.

"Pride can damage a marriage as much as pornography," you gut says yes, or is it simply for the sake of argument? Once again, we are not discussing pride.

The Effect of Pornography on the Spouse of an Addict


By Geoff Steurer, MS, LMFT
Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist


In all my years of counseling individuals and couples, I have never seen any other behavior produce a pattern of pain and misery as predictable as that which happens to an individual and his marriage when he views pornography.

Shock, denial, anger, rage, depression, self-loathing, isolation, and fear are some of the words that describe what a woman experiences when she learns of her husband’s secretive sexual behaviors. Virtually every woman I’ve worked with has experienced deep shame, embarrassment, and humiliation. Unfortunately, partners will often suffer privately and become more disconnected and isolated from their support systems. Even if they initially react in anger, most of the pain becomes “sorrow that the eye can’t see.” (LDS Hymn #220 “Lord, I Would Follow Thee”)

So very sad.

ajax wrote:I wonder what caused serial rapists and murderers to do what they did in an era of pre-porn availability? (Which would include most historical actors). Was it by observing nature and the rough sex that occurs in the animal kingdom?

Perhaps nowadays, PBS's "Nature" is to blame, or should at least be considered a gateway drug.

I remember being taught about Bundy as a YM in church. The idea being conveyed to our young minds that coming near it puts you on the path to being a monster. And no doubt, those who saw a little skin, were made to feel so terrible about themselves to the point of despair, being lumped in with Bundy and all.

Are those who view porn any worse off than the pious, sanctimonious, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, white collared, whited sepulcher hypocrites among us?

And you were able to say this in one breath? #:-s
Another good one is "for those living in glass houses, shouldn't throw rocks."
Any one of us can scrutinize and find sin, mistakes and flaws in others, but the hardest thing to do is to find them in ourselves and do something to rectify them. Then maybe we can start throwing rocks.

However:

Alma 41:15
15 For that which ye do send out shall return unto you again, and be restored; therefore, the word restoration more fully condemneth the sinner, and justifieth him not at all.

So let's be careful where we throw rocks.

Facebook is listed as a contributing factor to divorces in the USA far, far, far more than porn is...unless you are in an LDS culture.

Bee Prepared wrote:

SAM wrote:Well, I think it's safe to say, after reading many posts here on porn, that generally men minimize the problem and women blow it out of proportion. There has to be a way to approach the subject to emphasize that it isn't harmless and temptations to view it should not be heeded. However, if one is inadvertently exposed or gives into the curiosity it's not the end of world and they aren't likely to become serial killers or rapists.

Just like teaching about drugs and alcohol though, I don't think there is anything wrong with telling people that some people become addicted and can go down a very dark path. It is true that some people can drink a few beers and completely handle themselves. There are others who will easily become alcoholics from just a few drinks. Some people, no doubt, can be exposed to porn and not crave seeing it often or desire seeing more violent or explicit things, but for some it can get a grip and transform them into someone who desires depravity. All people should be informed of those risks, even if they won't personally be so adversely affected.

Can we all agree that it would benefit society if we weren't so obsessed with sex in our culture and we should encourage all people to not think with their genitals

Can you really blow it out of proportion, when it damages marriages, and causes one to lose the Spirit of Christ and forfeit the power of the priesthood?

I do think that some aspects of porn use can be blown out of proportion. Just like guns do not kill people, people kill people, porn use doesn't mean every viewer is going to turn to killing and raping. Porn is addictive, the more one sees the more one wants. Viewing and addicting ourselves to it is our own fault. It is a horrible virus our carnal side clings to. It soon becomes our controller, our idol and master. I think it is one of those whoredoms God speaks of.
Any justification for it comes directly from Satan. For all things that are good comes from God, and anything bad comes from the devil. No gray area.
The charge by God is to abhor sin. Does this mean only sins that we do not hold dear?