LDS Freedom Forum

And yet another ally in the Middle East falls...

While Obama arms his enemies...

KMC, you see you have a major problem that only you do not seem to recognize. You defend everything of Obama with a blind enthusiasm that borders, in my opinion, a sort of dependency, or projected ideal. Maybe I am wrong...if so please tell me a few things you dislike about Obama. Is there anything he can do wrong?

As for many liberals we see out there in US society...

Most of the people on this forum, even the ones like myself who are devout Mormons, are willing to express a bit of disagreement here and there with the Church, and while I am also a Republican I am more than willing to question the Republican leadership. You see, that is normal...as psychology recognizes the infant identifies with the parent (usually the mother) and then begins to break away, forming the ego or self-identity. At first the child introjects various aspects of their parents (usually the same-sex parent) but slowly learns that even the object of their adoration has flaws. Eventually the child/young adult is able to process who they really are as well as fit into society, recognizing the shortcomings of parents, teachers, religious figures and the like while also being able to incorporate and even admire other aspects of these role models.

However, sometimes there is disruption and an individual becomes disenchanted with those primary influences. Yet as the ego requires some substitute, something to adore and admire, they can take a cause or individual and create a transference, so to speak, to the new object. There are conservatives who do this but usually they still have other sources to divide this need between (religion, family, occupation, etc.) but often liberals have minimized these influences and require something else, something that cannot let them down and, employing extreme cognitive dissonance, can maintain that idol identification.

Not making any sort of individual diagnosis but in a general context I believe many Obama apologists we see in the US media who are unwilling to bend at all may fall into this description.

Fiannan wrote:KMC, you see you have a major problem that only you do not seem to recognize. You defend everything of Obama with a blind enthusiasm that borders, in my opinion, a sort of dependency, or projected ideal. Maybe I am wrong...if so please tell me a few things you dislike about Obama. Is there anything he can do wrong?

As for many liberals we see out there in US society...

Most of the people on this forum, even the ones like myself who are devout Mormons, are willing to express a bit of disagreement here and there with the Church, and while I am also a Republican I am more than willing to question the Republican leadership. You see, that is normal...as psychology recognizes the infant identifies with the parent (usually the mother) and then begins to break away, forming the ego or self-identity. At first the child introjects various aspects of their parents (usually the same-sex parent) but slowly learns that even the object of their adoration has flaws. Eventually the child/young adult is able to process who they really are as well as fit into society, recognizing the shortcomings of parents, teachers, religious figures and the like while also being able to incorporate and even admire other aspects of these role models.

However, sometimes there is disruption and an individual becomes disenchanted with those primary influences. Yet as the ego requires some substitute, something to adore and admire, they can take a cause or individual and create a transference, so to speak, to the new object. There are conservatives who do this but usually they still have other sources to divide this need between (religion, family, occupation, etc.) but often liberals have minimized these influences and require something else, something that cannot let them down and, employing extreme cognitive dissonance, can maintain that idol identification.

Not making any sort of individual diagnosis but in a general context I believe many Obama apologists we see in the US media who are unwilling to bend at all may fall into this description.

KM Copeland is going to reverse that against you saying that you have an everlasting hatred to Obama.

Just warning you.

samizdat wrote:I think that KMCopeland is willfully blind.

He cannot see how Obama has been outclassed by Putin and how even older allies are going to Putin.

You're dreaming.

samizdat wrote:Not to defend Putin, he has his corrupt motives too, but I would read up on the reason why Athens fell to Sparta. Sparta kept grabbing allies of Athens until there was no one left. Because Athens, like the US government today, has displayed a vast amount of arrogance.

Who is Sparta and who is Athens?

samizdat wrote:And yet another ally in the Middle East falls...

Which ally?

samizdat wrote:While Obama arms his enemies...

Which enemy do you believe Obama is arming?

Fiannan wrote:KMC, you see you have a major problem that only you do not seem to recognize. You defend everything of Obama with a blind enthusiasm that borders, in my opinion, a sort of dependency, or projected ideal. Maybe I am wrong...if so please tell me a few things you dislike about Obama. Is there anything he can do wrong?

My enthusiasm is anything but blind. I've been very clear about why I approve, for the most part, of this president. And the things I take issue with him over as well.

Fiannan wrote:As for many liberals we see out there in US society...

Most of the people on this forum, even the ones like myself who are devout Mormons, are willing to express a bit of disagreement here and there with the Church, and while I am also a Republican I am more than willing to question the Republican leadership. You see, that is normal...as psychology recognizes the infant identifies with the parent (usually the mother) and then begins to break away, forming the ego or self-identity. At first the child introjects various aspects of their parents (usually the same-sex parent) but slowly learns that even the object of their adoration has flaws. Eventually the child/young adult is able to process who they really are as well as fit into society, recognizing the shortcomings of parents, teachers, religious figures and the like while also being able to incorporate and even admire other aspects of these role models.

However, sometimes there is disruption and an individual becomes disenchanted with those primary influences. Yet as the ego requires some substitute, something to adore and admire, they can take a cause or individual and create a transference, so to speak, to the new object. There are conservatives who do this but usually they still have other sources to divide this need between (religion, family, occupation, etc.) but often liberals have minimized these influences and require something else, something that cannot let them down and, employing extreme cognitive dissonance, can maintain that idol identification.

Brother.

Fiannan wrote:Not making any sort of individual diagnosis

Like fun you're not.

Fiannan wrote:but in a general context I believe many Obama apologists we see in the US media who are unwilling to bend at all may fall into this description.

Your definition of "unwilling to bend" means "unwilling to agree with me." You know that and I know that.

KMCopeland wrote:

samizdat wrote:I think that KMCopeland is willfully blind.

He cannot see how Obama has been outclassed by Putin and how even older allies are going to Putin.

You're dreaming.

Sarkozy (ex French president) just said that Europe shares a common civilization with Russia and not with the USA. He added that Europe's interests with Russia are not America's interests with Russia. Concerning because Sarkozy was quite the ally of the USA when Bush was in power.

Merkel is basically going to Putin with Hollande to work out a deal where there will be no transfer of arms to Ukraine. Funny they didn't invite Obama, but not so funny because Obama has basically forced them to apply the sanctions against Russia (according to Joe Biden this IS what America is doing).

Meanwhile Obama (and the Repubtards) are looking for ways to start a more regional to global war in Ukraine, just like they tried to do in Syria, just giving weapons to the people we are now bombing.

samizdat wrote:Not to defend Putin, he has his corrupt motives too, but I would read up on the reason why Athens fell to Sparta. Sparta kept grabbing allies of Athens until there was no one left. Because Athens, like the US government today, has displayed a vast amount of arrogance.

Who is Sparta and who is Athens?

Sparta was a military dictatorship. Athens, the first democracy. They united against the Persians who wanted to conquer the Greeks much as Hitler tried to take over the world. The Persians were defeated.

Fast forward and Sparta and Athens form competing empires (Athens became richer due to its democratic form of government). But in that richness Athens became arrogant, exacting tributes from its member states and many times punishing them for not complying. Athens grows very big (EUR-NATO) but many cities start revolting (DONBASS CONFLICT +EUR UNREST) due to the policies of Athens.

Sparta starts picking off one ally after another to slowly strangle Athens, first cutting them off from their farmlands and then from their mines. Athens still defended quite nicely but the turning point was when Athens decides to go far beyond their borders to help out a Sicilian colony break free from Sparta. The defeat was disasterous and many historians regard it as the turning point in the war.

Even so Athens continues in its madness and Sparta continues picking off one ally after another, until Athens is ultimately defeated.

Looking at the geopolitical map of the world along with the descriptions of Athens and of Sparta, it should become very clear to the reader who Athens is (the decadent United States of America) and who Sparta is (Russia).

KMCopeland wrote:

samizdat wrote:And yet another ally in the Middle East falls...

Which ally?

samizdat wrote:While Obama arms his enemies...

Which enemy do you believe Obama is arming?

Which ally? The ally which is now ruled by the pro Iranian Houthis. The embassy as of tomorrow is shut down.

Look below Saudi Arabia. The place where Obama has been droning al qaedas left and right. A place that became our ally during the Arab Spring. And look who is at the head of them--same guy that was there that caused the Arab Spring to flower there.

Which enemy? Islamic State. Obama has been giving them many weapons, but he says that the weapons are going to the Free Syrian Army. Truth of the matter is they are allies with ISIS and seeing ISIS as more powerful, the weapons are going to them. So yes, Obama is arming Islamic State while pretending he hates them. That isn't something that is mere conjecture, it is fact.

But that isn't much different from when Reagan armed Saddam and Bin Laden. The problem is on both sides of the aisle.

samizdat wrote:

KMCopeland wrote:

samizdat wrote:I think that KMCopeland is willfully blind. He cannot see how Obama has been outclassed by Putin and how even older allies are going to Putin.

You're dreaming.

samizdat wrote:Sarkozy (ex French president) just said that Europe shares a common civilization with Russia and not with the USA. He added that Europe's interests with Russia are not America's interests with Russia. Concerning because Sarkozy was quite the ally of the USA when Bush was in power.

So one comment by Sarkozy clinches the argument that one of our older allies is going to Putin. That just doesn't work for me. I'd like to see behavior -- actions. Not one comment by one guy.

samizdat wrote:Merkel is basically going to Putin with Hollande to work out a deal where there will be no transfer of arms to Ukraine. Funny they didn't invite Obama, but not so funny because Obama has basically forced them to apply the sanctions against Russia (according to Joe Biden this IS what America is doing).

This country is quite united with Germany against Putin. France takes pride in being obstreperous but they are our oldest friend in the world. An old, very good friend. They'd gladly buy Russia's gas, but pointedly ally with Putin against us? I'd have to see that to believe it. Merkel & Hollande joining Putin in ganging up on Obama? Where might I read about that?

samizdat wrote:Meanwhile Obama (and the Repubtards) are looking for ways to start a more regional to global war in Ukraine, just like they tried to do in Syria, just giving weapons to the people we are now bombing.

I know who you're talking about on the right, but Obama wants no part of war in Ukraine. Trust me on this.

samizdat wrote:Not to defend Putin, he has his corrupt motives too, but I would read up on the reason why Athens fell to Sparta. Sparta kept grabbing allies of Athens until there was no one left. Because Athens, like the US government today, has displayed a vast amount of arrogance.

KMCopeland wrote:Who is Sparta and who is Athens?

samizdat wrote:Sparta was a military dictatorship. Athens, the first democracy. They united against the Persians who wanted to conquer the Greeks much as Hitler tried to take over the world. The Persians were defeated.

Fast forward and Sparta and Athens form competing empires (Athens became richer due to its democratic form of government). But in that richness Athens became arrogant, exacting tributes from its member states and many times punishing them for not complying. Athens grows very big (EUR-NATO) but many cities start revolting (DONBASS CONFLICT +EUR UNREST) due to the policies of Athens.

Sparta starts picking off one ally after another to slowly strangle Athens, first cutting them off from their farmlands and then from their mines. Athens still defended quite nicely but the turning point was when Athens decides to go far beyond their borders to help out a Sicilian colony break free from Sparta. The defeat was disasterous and many historians regard it as the turning point in the war.

Even so Athens continues in its madness and Sparta continues picking off one ally after another, until Athens is ultimately defeated.

Looking at the geopolitical map of the world along with the descriptions of Athens and of Sparta, it should become very clear to the reader who Athens is (the decadent United States of America) and who Sparta is (Russia).

Very interesting. I shall ponder it and get back to you. (Having a tooth pulled in a few.)

Very interesting. I shall ponder it and get back to you. (Having a tooth pulled in a few.)

Don't forget to place it under the pillow.

Okay KMC, here...let us make it easy. Here is a list of issues. Tell me which ones you disagree with Obama on:

Partial birth abortion legalization and opposition to laws to mandate a live birth be given medical attention to save it.

NSA spying on everyone.

Open borders (I know this is an issue of degree, but as it exists today)

Messing with the Russians and creating a war situation in Ukraine.

Gay marriage.

NDAA

Droning villages in the Middle East

Arming terrorists in Syria

Bombing Libya

The war on whistle blowers and journalists who expose corruption.

Obamacare

There are just a few issues. So let us know if you take issue with Obama on any of these.

George Albert Smith prophecy reads as a newspaper.

And I read it wrong the first time in two places. The prophecy seeems to be more chronoligical than I thought at first. So, here'ss where I read it wrong:

1) One tactic was to leave weapons in place. I actually thought the russians were to do that. In fact, it is the United States that is leaving heavy material cached underground, in secret locations.

2) Russia would appear to fall and rise again — not yet happened. Russia DID fall in the nineties. Now it will appear to fall (a 3% recession in 2015 is predicted), but THE EXPECTED CROP YIELD IS THE MAXIMUM IS RUSSIA'S HISTORY. [Russia is detaching herself from the western food dependency (mainly US), since the EU will end up backing up Russia and putting the sanctions to sleep, but for a moment it will appear to fall from the mighty position].

War in 2016, first or second quarter? Most likely.

Hey look! Once the Egyptians threw out Obama's friends in The Muslim Brotherhood Egypt has been getting mighty friendly with both Israel and Russia. On the other hand Obama is becoming far less friendly to Israel.

It should be noted however that Israel and Egypt are united in their opposition to Hamas and its cousins in The Muslim Brotherhood. Maybe that is why Obama is irked.


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Fiannan wrote:Okay KMC, here...let us make it easy. Here is a list of issues. Tell me which ones you disagree with Obama on:

Partial birth abortion legalization and opposition to laws to mandate a live birth be given medical attention to save it.

Partial birth abortion is already legal. Obama has no opposition to laws that mandate medical attention for a live birth. (I know what you're talking about -- this is one of the many hair-raising lies the right wing noise machine has used to whip you folks into a frenzy over.)

Fiannan wrote:NSA spying on everyone.

I have real issues with a surveillance state. I don't like it.

Fiannan wrote:Open borders (I know this is an issue of degree, but as it exists today)

I find no fault with Obama's position on illegal immigration. He's been harder on illegal immigration, and has deported more illegals, than any other president.

Fiannan wrote:Messing with the Russians and creating a war situation in Ukraine.

If he had done that, I would disagree with it. He hasn't.

Fiannan wrote:Gay marriage.

I agree with his position on gay marriage.

Fiannan wrote:NDAA

There's an NDAA every year. Do you object to that fact itself, or one particular NDAA?

Fiannan wrote:Droning villages in the Middle East

It contains terrorism better than all out war does, with fewer deaths. I hate innocent people being killed. I support it, with many reservations and with a heavy heart, and I look forward to the day that it ends.

Fiannan wrote:Arming terrorists in Syria

Who would agree with that? I don't, and neither does the president.

Fiannan wrote:Bombing Libya

Well, there was the 1986 bombing of Libya by President Reagan. Something tells me you have no problem with that one. To the extent that I ever agree with bombing anyone, the brief 2011 bombing mission had my approval.

Fiannan wrote:The war on whistle blowers and journalists who expose corruption.

This president has not sanctioned, or initiated, or participated in, any such war.

Fiannan wrote:Obamacare

My only complaint about Obamacare is that it doesn't go far enough. But yes, it has my full support. It is a very, very good thing, for everyone.

KMCopeland wrote:

Fiannan wrote:Okay KMC, here...let us make it easy. Here is a list of issues. Tell me which ones you disagree with Obama on:

Partial birth abortion legalization and opposition to laws to mandate a live birth be given medical attention to save it.

Partial birth abortion is already legal. Obama has no opposition to laws that mandate medical attention for a live birth. (I know what you're talking about -- this is one of the many hair-raising lies the right wing noise machine has used to whip you folks into a frenzy over.)

Fiannan wrote:NSA spying on everyone.

I have real issues with a surveillance state. I don't like it.

Fiannan wrote:Open borders (I know this is an issue of degree, but as it exists today)

I find no fault with Obama's position on illegal immigration. He's been harder on illegal immigration, and has deported more illegals, than any other president.

Fiannan wrote:Messing with the Russians and creating a war situation in Ukraine.

If he had done that, I would disagree with it. He hasn't.

Fiannan wrote:Gay marriage.

I agree with his position on gay marriage.

Fiannan wrote:NDAA

There's an NDAA every year. Do you object to that fact itself, or one particular NDAA?

Fiannan wrote:Droning villages in the Middle East

It contains terrorism better than all out war does, with fewer deaths. I hate innocent people being killed. I support it, with many reservations and with a heavy heart, and I look forward to the day that it ends.

Fiannan wrote:Arming terrorists in Syria

Who would agree with that? I don't, and neither does the president.

Fiannan wrote:Bombing Libya

Well, there was the 1986 bombing of Libya by President Reagan. Something tells me you have no problem with that one. To the extent that I ever agree with bombing anyone, the brief 2011 bombing mission had my approval.

Fiannan wrote:The war on whistle blowers and journalists who expose corruption.

This president has not sanctioned, or initiated, or participated in, any such war.

Fiannan wrote:Obamacare

My only complaint about Obamacare is that it doesn't go far enough. But yes, it has my full support. It is a very, very good thing, for everyone.

Abortion? You do know that Obama said that he wouldn't want her daughter punished with a baby for premarital relations. PUNISHED with a baby. Look it up on Youtube.

I too have real issues with a surveillance state. It doesn't matter if there is an R or a D or an L next to the name of the president.

Immigration. This is where I agree with Obama. There needs to be reform so that the entry process is streamlined, until that happens there will be more people coming illegally because it is easier for them. I believe that position is the position of the LDS Church, the position of Obama. Something some of the more conservative members of the forum don't like at all.

Ukraine? Totally the result of inept foreign policy on the part of the US Government, Democrat or Republican. Albeit with Republicans in control (McCain and Romney but especially McCain) we would be in world war 3 right now. If you read all sides of the news in Ukraine things are getting worse. The conflict has reached a turning point and it is the Russians turning the point right now. Look up Nuland's F--K the EU and Nulandistan on Youtube. The Ukraine situation is MUCH more complicated than what you hear in the media. And yet the solution is simple: Give the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts to Russia and leave the rest alone.

Gay marriage? The LDS Church has a position that is AGAINST Gay marriage. That is not changing anytime soon as both Kelly and Dehlin learned the hard way.

Bombing Libya? For the same reason why we bombed Iraq: We didn't want to have a competing system against the Petrodollar. Now it is Russia against the petrodollar and there have been sanctions raised against her. Even if Russia had not invaded Crimea, there would probably be sanctions against Russia today over Syria or over gay rights.

War on whistleblowers? Assange? Snowden? Manning? The bankers being suicided? Gallup CEO saying he would be suicided had he said the truth that the 5.7 unemployment numbers are nothing more than a baldfaced lie? S and P facing retribution for a downgrade given to the USA? He is definitely in the midst of that war.

Bombing villages in the ME? Why are we doing that again?

Obamacare? You have got to be kidding me. That has killed many FT jobs.

samizdat wrote:Looking at the geopolitical map of the world along with the descriptions of Athens and of Sparta, it should become very clear to the reader who Athens is (the decadent United States of America) and who Sparta is (Russia).

In the decadence department, Russia makes the US look like the Spartan one.

samizdat wrote:Abortion? You do know that Obama said that he wouldn't want her daughter punished with a baby for premarital relations. PUNISHED with a baby. Look it up on Youtube.

I don't consider YouTube a definitive source, and people toss off a lot of quips before they think. You should relegate your concerns to actual policy. Not what some member of his family said in an unguarded moment.

samizdat wrote:Ukraine? Totally the result of inept foreign policy on the part of the US Government, Democrat or Republican.

That could only be true if Putin got our permission before he acts. Really and truly, every single thing that goes on in the world, good or bad, doesn't go on because the American president made it happen.

samizdat wrote:The Ukraine situation is MUCH more complicated than what you hear in the media.

Spot on. And you don't hear much lately. It has faded in favor of who's running for president in a year and a half. I really get sick of it.

samizdat wrote:And yet the solution is simple: Give the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts to Russia and leave the rest alone.

But who does this giving?

samizdat wrote:Bombing Libya? For the same reason why we bombed Iraq: We didn't want to have a competing system against the Petrodollar.

I think that was true in 2003. I don't think it's the reason we bombed Libya in 2011.

samizdat wrote:Now it is Russia against the petrodollar and there have been sanctions raised against her. Even if Russia had not invaded Crimea, there would probably be sanctions against Russia today over Syria or over gay rights.

Putin is not a man to be underestimated. I hope the sanctions bear fruit.

samizdat wrote:War on whistleblowers? Assange? Snowden? Manning?

I don't think there's a war on them. There do seem to be more of them than usual -- but I think that's because we get information at warp speed now. But the handling of them isn't very different now than it's ever been.

samizdat wrote:The bankers being suicided?

That's a new one.

samizdat wrote:Gallup CEO saying he would be suicided had he said the truth that the 5.7 unemployment numbers are nothing more than a baldfaced lie?

So is that.

samizdat wrote:S and P facing retribution for a downgrade given to the USA? He is definitely in the midst of that war.

I hope I'm not forced to wade into kookland to find out what the heck you're talking about. I always need a shower after. What are you talking about?

samizdat wrote:Bombing villages in the ME? Why are we doing that again?

Who 'we?' What villages? What are you talking about now?

samizdat wrote:Obamacare? You have got to be kidding me. That has killed many FT jobs.

Nonsense.

KMCopeland wrote:

samizdat wrote:Looking at the geopolitical map of the world along with the descriptions of Athens and of Sparta, it should become very clear to the reader who Athens is (the decadent United States of America) and who Sparta is (Russia).

In the decadence department, Russia makes the US look like the Spartan one.

It is very saddening that you cannot see the parallels in history for yourself. There are many.

And Russia in this case is Sparta. They are peeling off Greece. They are actively supporting movements in Europe that could upset the balance of power there, so much where we are talking about the Europeans engaging Russia themselves and others saying we should move closer to Russia.

This is the Ezekiel 38 prophecy coming true...

samizdat wrote:And Russia in this case is Sparta. They are peeling off Greece. They are actively supporting movements in Europe that could upset the balance of power there, so much where we are talking about the Europeans engaging Russia themselves and others saying we should move closer to Russia.

You make a good case for Russia being smart, methodical, strategic and dangerous. The Sparta/Athens thing -- not so much.

KMCopeland wrote:

samizdat wrote:And Russia in this case is Sparta. They are peeling off Greece. They are actively supporting movements in Europe that could upset the balance of power there, so much where we are talking about the Europeans engaging Russia themselves and others saying we should move closer to Russia.

You make a good case for Russia being smart, methodical, strategic and dangerous. The Sparta/Athens thing -- not so much.

How so when in the other thread you admitted that you would only read up on it if it were important...

That is what happens to the left-right paradaigm but especially those that have hijacked the term liberal, on either side of the aisle: You guys don't read up on your history. So you are condemned to repeat it.

samizdat wrote:

KMCopeland wrote:

samizdat wrote:And Russia in this case is Sparta. They are peeling off Greece. They are actively supporting movements in Europe that could upset the balance of power there, so much where we are talking about the Europeans engaging Russia themselves and others saying we should move closer to Russia.

You make a good case for Russia being smart, methodical, strategic and dangerous. The Sparta/Athens thing -- not so much.

How so when in the other thread you admitted that you would only read up on it if it were important...

No, when you (or fiannan?) suggested I brush up on it, I said I would if it was necessary. Meaning I've got more than a passing familiarity with it. No need to brush up, in other words. I'm neck deep in it every day.

samizdat wrote:That is what happens to the left-right paradaigm but especially those that have hijacked the term liberal, on either side of the aisle: You guys don't read up on your history. So you are condemned to repeat it.

Oh, I read up on my history. For many years. Now, almost daily. Especially military history. Sparta -- I know Sparta. Well.