LDS Freedom Forum

Jezebel wrote:What a mess!

Jezebel wrote:I have a friend whose son was shot by police (West Valley, maybe?) who subsequently took pictures of themselves posing over the body, one foot on the dead body in the style of hunters who had killed themselves a prize trophy.

Its only going to get worse

Yes, when they finally feel they have enough clout to do it openly--it's close to that point now.

Police shoot unarmed girl through window of car after pre meditation.

That is rather blatant murder and expecting to get off scott free...

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33365461&nid=14 ... d=topstory

Salt Lake City has one of the lowest activity rates in the church; I lived in a West Valley Ward with less than 20% activity in the church. That is one definition of wickedness according to Isaiah--those who have taken on themselves the covenant and "make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth or in righteousness." Salt Lake City has the highest per capita population of gays in the United States other than San Francisco, at least as of 2010. Salt Lake City has a severe and chronic gang violence problem with particular difficulty with Hispanic and Islander gangs. Salt Lake City has the prophets and apostles in their very midst, but they "stone the prophets" metaphorically (read the opinion pages of the newspapers there).

Plusses-- Salt Lake as a city (not individuals per se) has one of the best programs to help the homeless and poor of any in the nation--they just give them homes. It also has 4 temples in the valley. It has the prophet and apostles living there, as well.

I would not live in Salt Lake again for any reason. It was dangerous, dark, and scary there. It is a dirty city in many areas; the air pollution problem is very serious, as is the trash along streets and roads. There are areas there, like those of any large city, where you just don't want to go, day or night. I'll take my blue skies, clean air, and overly-courteous neighbors here over those in Salt Lake valley any day!

Ah....I don't want to sound like I'm defending Salt Lake....but if I could I would poll everyone in this thread just to see the breadth of their experience in other places.

Salt Lake City is corrupt, wicked, gross and every bit as bad as people make it out to be.

But it is not even close to the worst. It will get worse.

Plusses-- Salt Lake as a city (not individuals per se) has one of the best programs to help the homeless and poor of any in the nation--they just give them homes.

Wow - I'm interested. Can you provide any information or references? how many etc?

BroJones wrote:

Plusses-- Salt Lake as a city (not individuals per se) has one of the best programs to help the homeless and poor of any in the nation--they just give them homes.

Wow - I'm interested. Can you provide any information or references? how many etc?

It's actually a state program, but currently mostly in Salt Lake and Ogden. This has been highlighted in a number of places.
Here:http://www.nationofchange.org/utah-endi ... 1390056183

Here: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free

Here: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... tml?pg=all

We might suck at a lot of things, but we are hands down the most considerate drivers in the civilized world.

Steve Clark wrote:We might suck at a lot of things, but we are hands down the most considerate drivers in the civilized world.

:)) =)) :))

I'll try to remember that the next time a "considerate driver" decides not to let me change lanes.

Steve Clark wrote:We might suck at a lot of things, but we are hands down the most considerate drivers in the civilized world.

I think that's a typo, Steve...maybe you meant to type "we are hands down the most aggressive drivers in the civilized world."

I wish I could find the poem, "I-15 Woman" that I read a number of years ago...describing the woman who can keep going 65 in construction and still put on her make-up and pantyhose. Yep...most "considerate" drivers. =))

I grew up in the Salt Lake valley, so I always thought this driving style was normal. Went on a mission to New Zealand and was shocked at rush hour. Strangest thing happened when you turned your turn signal on; everyone slowed down and made room. :ymapplause:

BroJones wrote:

Plusses-- Salt Lake as a city (not individuals per se) has one of the best programs to help the homeless and poor of any in the nation--they just give them homes.

Wow - I'm interested. Can you provide any information or references? how many etc?

I knew a between jobs computer programmer that was given an apartment in the renovated Ramada Hotel on State Street in SLC. Each apartment had previously been a motel room. Government housing being extended to single humans instead of only families is not without strings as Robert Sinclair intends. People must remain poor or lose their sleeping quarters. Sounds simple enough... Why would anyone want to live in such a place if they didn't have to? But, strings create dependency. Kind of like a jail without bars.

One might see the benevolence in free housing for those that otherwise may sleep in the park, (I slept in a park 40 years ago and awoke to a police officer kicking me and telling me it was illegal to sleep in a public place), but a person needs hope, hope of a better tomorrow. The strings remove hope. Then one settles for what is given.

The government saves money and maintains complete control. The slaves conform. The socialists pat each other on the back for solving the problem. No need to worry about it any more. We gave them a free place to live and food to eat. What more could they want?

Lizzy60 wrote:I moved to SLC in 1970 after growing up in the South. I was appalled by the crude language I heard in the hallways in the high school I attended in the Holliday area, (pretty upscale neighborhoods), and teen pregnancy was as bad, or worse, than the large school I transferred from in the Bible Belt.

I've also visited many times since moving away 10 years later, and I've seen it deteriorate over time. It's most definitely as much Babylon as any other American city. I think it negatively affects me more, because it should be striving to be so much better.

There has to be opposition in all things, so where the church is in strength so is Satan. It all stems on which voice we list to obey.

When I worked in SLC there were many people permanently transferred in from other states. One day one of them said to me "Utah drivers sure are crazy drivers." I said back "that's because they move in from out of state and put Utah plates on their cars, what do you expect?"
They also complained about all the Mormons around. I told them the Mormon's got there first and if they didn't like it move.
I've seen my home town, my place where I had deep roots, where I was reared and held dear...decay over time. It is not the same place since three to five decades ago.

I don't think there are very many people that remember or experienced "gravity hill" or even know where it is. Now it's blocked to traffic, and why, I have no clue. It is disheartening to see neat places like this treated badly. I have much history in SLC now gone.

Anyone remember this song from 1965? Listen to it very carefully and you can hear someone in the background call out the Call letters to one of the favorite radio stations of the time, KNAK. Others were KMOR, and KCPX, The big country station was KSOP playing good ole' country way before Country Rock was ever conceived.

Steve Clark wrote:I grew up in the Salt Lake valley, so I always thought this driving style was normal. Went on a mission to New Zealand and was shocked at rush hour. Strangest thing happened when you turned your turn signal on; everyone slowed down and made room. :ymapplause:

LOL! A strange site, isn't it? Even the Californians will let you in. Don't know what it is about Utahns that make them think that a turn signal is an aggressive sign.

freedomforall wrote:

Lizzy60 wrote:I moved to SLC in 1970 after growing up in the South. I was appalled by the crude language I heard in the hallways in the high school I attended in the Holliday area, (pretty upscale neighborhoods), and teen pregnancy was as bad, or worse, than the large school I transferred from in the Bible Belt.

I've also visited many times since moving away 10 years later, and I've seen it deteriorate over time. It's most definitely as much Babylon as any other American city. I think it negatively affects me more, because it should be striving to be so much better.

There has to be opposition in all things, so where the church is in strength so is Satan. It all stems on which voice we list to obey.

When I worked in SLC there were many people permanently transferred in from other states. One day one of them said to me "Utah drivers sure are crazy drivers." I said back "that's because they move in from out of state and put Utah plates on their cars, what do you expect?"
They also complained about all the Mormons around. I told them the Mormon's got there first and if they didn't like it move.
I've seen my home town, my place where I had deep roots, where I was reared and held dear...decay over time. It is not the same place since three to five decades ago.

I don't think there are very many people that remember or experienced "gravity hill" or even know where it is. Now it's blocked to traffic, and why, I have no clue. It is disheartening to see neat places like this treated badly. I have much history in SLC now gone.

Gravity hill? Sure that is where gravity works backwards. Up by memory Grove above the State Capital building.

light-one wrote:

BroJones wrote:

Plusses-- Salt Lake as a city (not individuals per se) has one of the best programs to help the homeless and poor of any in the nation--they just give them homes.

Wow - I'm interested. Can you provide any information or references? how many etc?

I knew a between jobs computer programmer that was given an apartment in the renovated Ramada Hotel on State Street in SLC. Each apartment had previously been a motel room. Government housing being extended to single humans instead of only families is not without strings as Robert Sinclair intends. People must remain poor or lose their sleeping quarters. Sounds simple enough... Why would anyone want to live in such a place if they didn't have to? But, strings create dependency. Kind of like a jail without bars.

One might see the benevolence in free housing for those that otherwise may sleep in the park, (I slept in a park 40 years ago and awoke to a police officer kicking me and telling me it was illegal to sleep in a public place), but a person needs hope, hope of a better tomorrow. The strings remove hope. Then one settles for what is given.

The government saves money and maintains complete control. The slaves conform. The socialists pat each other on the back for solving the problem. No need to worry about it any more. We gave them a free place to live and food to eat. What more could they want?

I tend to disagree, since most of them are mentally ill or have other impediments to an otherwise productive life. These are the most vulnerable and least wanted in our society; they are unable to provide for themselves for the most part because their mental state is so unpredictable and fragile. There are other solutions far better, in my opinion, such as dietary changes and herbal supplements to regain health, but since our society chooses to ignore these God-given solutions, this program does the best possible with a very difficult and thorny situation.

Thomas wrote:

freedomforall wrote:

Lizzy60 wrote:I moved to SLC in 1970 after growing up in the South. I was appalled by the crude language I heard in the hallways in the high school I attended in the Holliday area, (pretty upscale neighborhoods), and teen pregnancy was as bad, or worse, than the large school I transferred from in the Bible Belt.

I've also visited many times since moving away 10 years later, and I've seen it deteriorate over time. It's most definitely as much Babylon as any other American city. I think it negatively affects me more, because it should be striving to be so much better.

There has to be opposition in all things, so where the church is in strength so is Satan. It all stems on which voice we list to obey.

When I worked in SLC there were many people permanently transferred in from other states. One day one of them said to me "Utah drivers sure are crazy drivers." I said back "that's because they move in from out of state and put Utah plates on their cars, what do you expect?"
They also complained about all the Mormons around. I told them the Mormon's got there first and if they didn't like it move.
I've seen my home town, my place where I had deep roots, where I was reared and held dear...decay over time. It is not the same place since three to five decades ago.

I don't think there are very many people that remember or experienced "gravity hill" or even know where it is. Now it's blocked to traffic, and why, I have no clue. It is disheartening to see neat places like this treated badly. I have much history in SLC now gone.

Gravity hill? Sure that is where gravity works backwards. Up by memory Grove above the State Capital building.

Exactly. It was a blast to get new people to drive up there and experience it. The driver in every case would profoundly state they were rolling back up hill. I wonder why it got blocked off.

Desert Roses wrote:I tend to disagree, since most of them are mentally ill or have other impediments to an otherwise productive life. These are the most vulnerable and least wanted in our society; they are unable to provide for themselves for the most part because their mental state is so unpredictable and fragile. There are other solutions far better, in my opinion, such as dietary changes and herbal supplements to regain health, but since our society chooses to ignore these God-given solutions, this program does the best possible with a very difficult and thorny situation.

And people living on the street say:

"I've been doing so much with so little for so long, that I can do anything with nothing."

Steve Clark wrote:We might suck at a lot of things, but we are hands down the most considerate drivers in the civilized world.

Nope ... Oregon has the most mellow, polite drivers in the USA. I could not believe it when I was out in Portland a few years ago for a week, I don't even think they had legalized pot back then (it was when Pope John Paul II's funeral was - I remember watching a snippet of it while relaxing at the hotel there.)