LDS Freedom Forum

ISIS is yet another CIA creation - al Qaida was getting old and so they came up with ISIS to keep everyone fearful that the 'terrorists' are still lurking and need to be rooted out in order to continue justifying our occupations in the middle east.

Col. Flagg wrote:ISIS is yet another CIA creation - al Qaida was getting old and so they came up with ISIS to keep everyone fearful that the 'terrorists' are still lurking and need to be rooted out in order to continue justifying our occupations in the middle east.

We have enough drones to make having a wedding in Pakistan an event to be scared of yet we let ISIS carve out a huge section of Iraq and Syria, even though, unlike Pakistan, the Iraq government was okay with whatever we would do to ISIS. We arm "moderate" jihadists (they only cut your head off if they don't particularly like you) who defect to ISIS all the time or sell weapons to ISIS.

Oh well, Americans don't generally know this, but most know what Kim Kardashian's bare bottom looks like or who won a ball game the other day.

I completely agree, it is horrific. But are you against horrific deaths in general, or only those caused by Muslims? I can guarantee you that we've killed many times more than they have.

We'll never see video of all the kids our bombs have burned up, will we.

And what about the horrific deaths of at least 500,000 Iraqi children from our sanctions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA3Dn1ZqvGg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What about the 500,000 innocent fleeing mostly German civilians that were fire bombed by FDR and Churchill in Dresden? Or the 20 million Indians that were killed in this country because they were savages and and were impeding the first oil/railroad billionaire? What about the millions that were starved to death in the Ukraine/Holodomor by Stalin? Democide has killed over 360 million people since 1900. Death by government. Whats a concept.

LittleLion wrote:What about the 500,000 innocent fleeing mostly German civilians that were fire bombed by FDR and Churchill in Dresden? Or the 20 million Indians that were killed in this country because they were savages and and were impeding the first oil/railroad billionaire? What about the millions that were starved to death in the Ukraine/Holodomor by Stalin? Democide has killed over 360 million people since 1900. Death by government. Whats a concept.

If a black widow spider is crawling on my bed I will smash it; I will not think to myself that mosquitoes kill millions per year.

However, if you think the US government is full of idiots then be thankful you don't have congressmen saying we need a jobs program for ISIS veterans:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/a-swe ... ome-2015-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fiannan wrote:However, if you think the US government is full of idiots then be thankful you don't have congressmen saying we need a jobs program for ISIS veterans:

No they are not idiots they are very much intelligent (most) psychopaths that want to save their own hides so they will do anything that satan wants them too. And of course they want reintegration for ISIS because they created ISIS and they have to thank them somehow! I guarantee that warmongering congressmen like the idea of helping ISIS because they are! I am sure they are miffed that the Swedish officials beat them to the punch. Your point definitely talks straight to my point about Democide thanks!

Muerte Rosa wrote:Why is it that any time I make mention of the war going on over there, so many on here feel the need to remind me (as if i lived under a rock) about every other person that has ever suffered a horrible death? I guess i should just not care? Does his death somehow not count or matter, because of the Indians, or the Jews or any of those mentioned? Good grief pull your heads out. :ymtongue:

I think the point being made is you get all emotional about this one horrific death, but where were your protests with the multitudes that we kill in equally horrific circumstances, but we just do it from 30,000 feet rather than face to face? It seems that you get up in arms over a single death which was indeed barbaric and certainly should be protested against and those responsible brought to justice. Why do you only get upset about the deaths that the news tells you to get upset about, and ignore the others? (I assume ignore because your post indicates you are indeed aware of them.) I'm not talking about ancient history which you weren't even alive for, such as the holocaust, the native Americans, etc., I am talking about the ongoing slaughter that we have carried out over the past dozen or so years.

You say good grief, pull your head out - I think the responses that you don't appreciate are saying physician, heal thyself.

No, the answer is not that you should not care, it is that you should care more. Don't just get upset about the deaths that Brian Williams gives you permission to be upset about. Stop allowing yourself to be a tool for your slave masters.

Muerte Rosa wrote:Good grief pull your heads out. :ymtongue:

lol Rosa! Maybe its because you make is sound like since the big bad terrorists did it that its the end of the world yet when governments do mass genocide/democide its no big deal and somehow not so horrific. ;) Just like the FDA kills 100 thousand a year but they go after an industry that has never killed anyone. Seems a reorder of priorities and perspective is needed? On the other hand yes every human dieing by unnatural and especially violent murderous causes is horrific. But then again the story you quoted probably is not true anyway since it comes straight from the worlds propagandist machines. I know I know..... I'm the one that needs perspective. oops posted after your comment to OI... Neener

Muerte Rosa wrote:#-o Just so we are clear everyone.....I'm not some gullible sucker that believes whatever mainstream media tells me to believe. That's the same exact shiz my dad says to me, maybe i should just go where all the "real" smart people go for their news....comedy central.

Touche!!! Ole!!! :ymapplause:

Breitbart has the entire ISIS video on their website.

The production quality is phenomenal -- just where are they getting their expertise, psychological skills, and equipment from? It is horrific, yes, but it is not something created by a bunch of amateurs. Also, an Arab friend of mine noted today that all their soldiers are dressed in clean, ironed, and high quality uniforms. On the other hand the brave men and women of Bashir Assad's military and the Kurds look like they have been drug behind a truck whenever you see them featured anywhere.

Why is this not being analyzed?

Muerta Rosa

Why is it that any time I make mention of the war going on over there, so many on here feel the need to remind me (as if i lived under a rock) about every other person that has ever suffered a horrible death? I guess i should just not care? Does his death somehow not count or matter, because of the Indians, or the Jews or any of those mentioned? Good grief pull your heads out.

It is not every other person that suffers a horrible death, but everybody who may have been killed by USA military actions. This is a HATE AMERICA crowd who wants to twist every topic into how evil America/Christians/LDS Church is regardless of how applicable these rants are to the topic.

Regards,

George Clay

gclayjr wrote: This is a HATE AMERICA crowd who wants to twist every topic into how evil America/Christians/LDS Church is regardless of how applicable these rants are to the topic.

“The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.” - HL Mencken

Your HATE AMERICA mantra notwithstanding.

gclayjr wrote:This is a HATE AMERICA crowd who wants to twist every topic into how evil America/Christians/LDS Church is regardless of how applicable these rants are to the topic. George Clay

Wow George, you sure know how to do a little twisting yourself. Nobody here said anything about hating anyone especially Christians and the Church or its leaders. For the record it is not America that is evil it is its government that no more represents America than the man in the moon does. The problems arise when we Americans are lumped in with the psychopaths that are making the decisions for us. They are using our tax dollars to spread the work of death around the world, which makes us partially responsible, and creating the chaos that is the world of today. Problems also arise when people are brainwashed by the MSM into thinking that what the Zionists are doing in our/your name is the good and righteous thing to do! I had someone tell me the other day to my face that all Muslims are evil and should be wiped off the map. This was a person that did have a brain at one time until it was turned to mush by all the garbage that is spewing out of the peoples mouths that call themselves your government. Get a freaking clue. please. Stop spewing untruths about the people in this forum. NOBODY here said what is in the quote from you at the top of this post. Why on earth would you say something to this degree of credulity? I'm confused and I think you are also.

Muerte Rosa wrote:The way i see it...regardless of what our government leaders motives are for being over there, doesn't change the fact that innocent people are being slaughtered for no reason. And yes some are because of us, but our troops are over there because they are trying to rid this world of an evil sadistic group, who has no regard for human life whatsoever....So the way I see it, is if we see this happening and do nothing..that is about the same as witnessing a woman being raped and murdered and having us having the capability to stop it, and just walking away saying "none of my business"

THIS is the propaganda that many here are trying to warn you about. If you really think our troops are over there to "rid the world of this evil sadistic group", then you've been duped into the official lie that promotes this never ending, all encompassing, unconstitutional War on Terror.

Why are we not sending hundreds of thousands of troops into Nigeria? Didn't you hear about the massacre of 2000 people by Boko Haram?
Every country in this world has "Terror" events happening all the time. But ask yourself why aren't we sending troops there? does that country have oil? Opium? or is that region strategically placed near Iran and/or Russia and/or China? Nothing much in Africa, so let's downplay that since it doesn't give our Military Industrial Complex the most bang for their buck.

Muerte Rosa wrote:The way i see it...regardless of what our government leaders motives are for being over there, doesn't change the fact that innocent people are being slaughtered for no reason. And yes some are because of us,

Rosa, I am sorry but ALL of it is because of us. All governments are run by satan and all governments are working together behind the scenes to keep the people ignorant and controlled. But the main group are people controlling our government. We spend more on the work of death than all other countries combined! If we were just trying to destroy a few dirt farmers why would we need to spend this much? We would not!


The gadianton's have had the judgment seat in this country since just after it was was formed. All terrorist organizations that make the news and most that don't make the news are created by these same gadianton's to foment chaos to implement their plans. History is replete with easily followed road maps that describe this process for anyone that uses critical thinking and the BOM describes this process to a T. So called experts that tell you we have enemies in this country or that are fooled or are making money off of the chaos. We only have one enemy and he controls all governments who control all people/organizations that create chaos. There is no other way to look at it.

So you and I are paying for all this death whether you think or believe it or not, that's just the way it is. You've probably been to the temple. What did satan say about buying up armies and navies to rule with blood and horror on this earth? There is no way he can rule the earth with anything other than the number one military period. If we were using this money to fix things instead of destroy and control, the world would not be in the mess it is. People of the world do not want chaos, it is fomented by and for the few who control almost all the resources and wealth in this world and that includes all governments and their military's. Why do you think Obama just recently got rid of over 100 of our top brass in our military? A move that has no other precedence in history whatsoever. Why did General Smedly Butler one of the most decorated people in our military say war is a racket? He said he was just a high priced thug overthrowing governments so the corporations could go in and strip the natural resources out of that country? Why have we invaded over 150 countries since 1940? What was formed in 1940? The CIA, which is the most prolific terrorist organization in the history of the world! Why is the suicide rate for all military's at an all time high including almost 25 a DAY for the us military? sigh......

Muerte Rosa wrote: but our troops are over there because they are trying to rid this world of an evil sadistic group, who has no regard for human life whatsoever

Sigh..... See above.

Muerte Rosa wrote:Geeze after reading all this i suddenly have this hankering to go buy a whole sh!tload of tinfoil. #-o

=)) =)) =)) =))

Not sure what you are talking about. I don't believe in theories, only facts. :ymsmug:

Muerte Rosa wrote:Geeze after reading all this i suddenly have this hankering to go buy a whole sh!tload of tinfoil. #-o

Or maybe get on your knees and pray and start using a little critical thinking. Hmm I guess the BOM is wrong that describes this whole process huh? This kind of stuff can't happen anymore because? why? The scriptures, the prophets and all their prophecies tell us differently Rosa.

LittleLion,

Nobody here said anything about hating anyone especially Christians and the Church or its leaders. For the record it is not America that is evil it is its government that no more represents America than the man in the moon does. The problems arise when we Americans are lumped in with the psychopaths that are making the decisions for us.

You do realize that I can refer to topics outside of this one. You are being dishonest when you say nobody here said anything about hating the church leaders. Of course you can whitewash yourselves in jots and tittles and say that calling them corrupt is simply a L-O-V-I-N-G thing to say.

Also when I say I hate North Korea, I don't mean that I hate the mountains and the streams and the little babies crying in their cribs. I mean I hate the government system and the people running, and YOU KNOW IT!

So when you try to whitewash yourself by saying that it isn't America you hate, its the Government, then YOU are being dishonest!

Regards,

George Clay

Muerte Rosa wrote:i just think that sometimes some people take this stuff too far...assuming that EVERYTHING and EVERYONE is. "In on it"

The facts speak for themselves. If you do not want to acknowledge them that is your choice. Critical thinking is not conspiratorial in nature, it is thinking for yourself given the facts at hand. To arbitrarily discount them is not wise. I mean really, we spend more money on the work of death than all the other countries combined. This is a fact. And it says something. Along with all the other information that I and others have given you and is all easily re-searchable and corroborated by the spirit. *shrugs*

gclayj wrote: You are being dishonest when you say nobody here said anything about hating the church leaders.

No, not dishonest, I have never said anything about Church leaders except what I have witnessed with my own eyes. If others have said things about them I cannot speak to that. Calling people in the Church corrupt without proof is a serious mistake. If someone has seen things and experienced things firsthand it is not a crime to acknowledge it. When someone calls out a person/people in the Church they are still not calling out the Church. You can still believe in the Gospel is Jesus Christ and and be in good standing and have issues with people in the Church. Yes it would behoove you to do what you can to put the issues aside as soon as you are able as this would invite the wrong spirit.

gclayj wrote: So when you try to whitewash yourself by saying that it isn't America you hate, its the Government, then YOU are being dishonest!

No I'm not being dishonest George I can call out the people that are doing wrong things in the Government without calling out the whole of America. That is ludicrous to even think that. That is like saying you cant support the troops without supporting the war. Which is also wrong.

LittleLion,

The facts speak for themselves. If you do not want to acknowledge them that is your choice

Isn't it a little arrogant with all of the various flavors of "facts" out there that your conspiratorial sources are "facts" and every other source is fiction. Its a fact that that is self delusion, or an attempt to smear everybody else's position by pompously claiming high ground for "facts" that you don't actually know.

Also a lot of deception comes in slimy wording

I mean really, we spend more money on the work of death than all the other countries combined. This is a fact. And it says something

Work of death... I guess that can mean anything or nothing... do you mean every dime spent in defense is a work of death? or do you mean that since you hate America...err I mean the American system... that all money spent by the government is a work of death.. assuming that you are talking about about military spending and claiming that all of the budget is for a "work of death" then we only spend about 37% of the world military expenditures, not more than everybody else...unless you mean OUR military spending is a work of death and everybody else's isn't.

What rubbish, but is sounds so knowledgeable to claim that you say facts, and everybody else is false opinion.

REgards,

George Clay

Rosa and George,

It easy easy to verify what I and others have said to see if we are tinfoil hat wearing nutjobs. If you don't have the time nor the inkling to do so I totally understand. I do not want to resort to degrading insults like the both of you have it just makes it harder to have a civil conversation. It has taken me 15 years of research to get to the point I am. I have to admit that if I were "assaulted" by the facts when I first started my journey I would have reacted along the lines that the both you you have. It takes discovering many dots and only after connecting enough of them can you begin to see a pattern forming a picture. It is really hard to to see the forest for the trees at first glance. I could give you more links and references than you could possibly look at so much so that it would totally overwhelm you which would accomplish the exact opposite of what I am trying to do and say here.

I would invite the both of you when you have the time to research some of the things I have said and I would be glad to help with any references you might want and or need.

And George, what I was talking about was the total spending on the military industrial complex vs the rest of the world. As you can see from this graphic what I was saying is truth.



I will leave you with some words that should be of value since this person was at the highest levels of government and was privy to information that nobody we know could possibly be privy to to. Listen to what he has to say.

The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret
societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.

For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed.

President John F. Kennedy
Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York City
April 27, 1961

Muerte Rosa wrote:I'm not sure you read my last comment.......

Based on your last comment of you can only know if you were there few people would ever know anything. And you know darn well there are ways to know the facts or at least the likely story besides seeing with your own eyes. How does a jury decide if someone is guilty or not? Were they there? No they were not. They have to rely on the evidence and then decide which evidence is fact just like all researchers do. God has given us the spirit to help us decide which are truths and which are not based on the evidence. And we both know there are other ways. If we had to rely only on your interpretation of what the facts are then none of us would know if Christ is the Christ now would we. Or if the Church is Christs or if the prophet is his mouthpiece. The scriptures tell us plenty and give us a groundwork from which to base our research on.


They tell us human nature.

We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

DnC 121:39

A very important piece is to realize that your perspective comes from your experiences and your research into the evidence. For instance both you and George automatically believe that Good has no bounds or limits but that evil will only go so far as you believe it will based on your perspective and research. I have found people always think this without fail.

9 Therefore it is an imperative duty that we owe, not only to our own wives and children, but to the widows and fatherless, whose husbands and fathers have been murdered under its iron hand;
10 Which dark and blackening deeds are enough to make hell itself shudder, and to stand aghast and pale, and the hands of the very devil to tremble and palsy.
11 And also it is an imperative duty that we owe to all the rising generation, and to all the pure in heart—
12 For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it—
13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—

DnC 123:9 - 13

Case in point, can you imagine in your mind what kind of evil it would take to make hell itself shudder and stand aghast? Or for the devils hands to tremble and palsy? There is no possible way you could even imagine it unless you have put in the time and effort to do so. Which is it obvious to me you have not. just saying.........

May you and George's families be in peace and may the evils of this world give you the trials you need to grow and learn so that you may one day be with our Father again.

Muerte Rosa wrote:Ok is it possible for me to also gather "facts" and come up with a completely different conclusion than you ?

Only if you have agenda driven motives that are meant to hide the truth my dear. Truth is the truth no matter how you get to it. There are many facts you can get very easily that cannot be disputed no matter how blind and agenda driven you are.


Invaded countries since WWII ------ USA 70 IRAN 0
Innocent killed while invading ------ USA Millions IRAN 0

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

NT Matthew 7:16 - 20

LittleLion wrote:What about the 500,000 innocent fleeing mostly German civilians that were fire bombed by FDR and Churchill in Dresden? Or the 20 million Indians that were killed in this country because they were savages and and were impeding the first oil/railroad billionaire? What about the millions that were starved to death in the Ukraine/Holodomor by Stalin? Democide has killed over 360 million people since 1900. Death by government. Whats a concept.

I've told you a billion times to stop exaggerating ;)
The death toll in Dresden was around 100,000 - which, of course, makes it all right!