LDS Freedom Forum

I have always wondered why an all powerful and loving god would allow pain, suffering, hunger, and death? IV think someone told me so are can gain experience, or be closer to him and a few other explanations that aren't comment mind. My friend passed away last week. He was Incredibly kind to others. Just the kind of friend many people wished they could have.

The short answer: He gives us agency. Pain is part of the experience of learning about opposition. But Jesus Christ took all our pain upon Himself so that He could know how to comfort us. He didn't send us down here to do anything that He wouldn't or didn't first do Himself.

A few other short answers:
1) He is not all powerful in the traditional Christian sense of the word. In short he can't arrange any imaginable state of affairs. I fully accept this and am satisfied to know that God has a handle on THIS plan and no one is powerful enough to thwart him, except me, as pertains to me.
2) If you don't know misery you can't know joy. This reality is stated in scriptures. God can't change it. Trust that in the end you will have a better world and you will be better equipped to actually appreciate it.

Comfort for most people equal complacentcy. Pain = movement. You get stung up jump swat move.

I think God use pain to modivate change. Trials= growth. Pain is part of trials.

I have heard it said that we are like impure gold. God places us on the fire.(trials) We become molten. (Teachable) and when the dross or impurities is swept off the top( we learn lessons and change) then the need for purifacation goes away.

Most purifacation happen in our heads. So as we correct our thinking we have less and less trials.

I have come to understand that pain and trials are a blessing given to me from the lord for my own benefit. I have grown to love them. As crazy as that sounds. That attitude has made them easyer. And now I have very few trials. It's nice.

I really enjoyed this explanation



https://unblogmysoul.wordpress.com/2012 ... d-justice/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

C.S. Lewis wrote a great book about your question called "The Problem of Pain". I am so sorry for the difficulty you are going thru right now with the loss of your friend. If you want an answer from someone who really searched for an answer to your question, it's a great read.

Here is a quote from it..

“We can ignore even pleasure. But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”


― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

FSM wrote:I have always wondered why an all powerful and loving god would allow pain, suffering, hunger, and death? IV think someone told me so are can gain experience, or be closer to him and a few other explanations that aren't comment mind. My friend passed away last week. He was Incredibly kind to others. Just the kind of friend many people wished they could have.

These things ought to be defined with an eternal perspective in mind and a mortal perspective in heart. When a loved one passes, they define these things with an eternal perspective in heart and a mortal perspective in mind. In this regard, the hearts of the children are turned toward their fathers and the hearts of the fathers are turned toward their children. There is physical pain and there is spiritual pain. One is of the mind and one is of the heart. Why would a loving God allow pain? It would depend upon how you define and experience pain. Can you or anyone be healed of it? When faith replaces fear; hope replaces despair; and love replaces hate. We empower God with our choices. He, infinitely, respects our agency and must be invited in.

FSM, may you be comforted in knowledge and with hope that your friend is and will still be your friend throughout eternity. You will be and are aware of each other, of this you will know.

I tend to think that's the reason why we are here on this earth...

To learn thru' extrapollation.. thru' contrast...

We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things.

A simple thing such as death and the fact that we do not remember our eternal past
is meant to teach us what eternity means, a way to makes us understand sempiternal life in a more profound way
and it is the only way...

We can not understand what END means, if we live endeless lives...

2 Nephi 2:11

Pain (physical or emotional) is the body's way of telling you that something is wrong. Is pain a good thing?

Does "suffering" exist if you believe that all the "Bad" you experience is ultimately good for you?
Could hunger cease to exist right now if we collectively chose to feed everybody?
Could death cease to exist right now if we collectively chose to clean up our environment and take better care of ourselves?

Sometimes I wonder if a better question would be- Why do WE allow pain, suffering, hunger, and death?

Maybe God is just allowing us the agency of experiencing this stuff? :-??

FSM wrote:I have always wondered why an all powerful and loving god would allow pain, suffering, hunger, and death? IV think someone told me so are can gain experience, or be closer to him and a few other explanations that aren't comment mind. My friend passed away last week. He was Incredibly kind to others. Just the kind of friend many people wished they could have.

The lack of a good answer to your question is what pushed me toward deism.

Muerte Rosa wrote:I shared my friends blog with fsm. My friend that recently died. Before she died...on her blog she talked about this exact thing and what she felt the purpose of it was. Very inspiring.

But you have to start from the beginning of the blog for it to make sense, because now it's her husband posting.
http://kathysmiracle.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Muerte Rosa, I went to your friend's blog and I wished I hadn't read it at work, because now I'm bawling silently and my eyes are red!.

Original_Intent wrote:C.S. Lewis wrote a great book about your question called "The Problem of Pain". I am so sorry for the difficulty you are going thru right now with the loss of your friend. If you want an answer from someone who really searched for an answer to your question, it's a great read.

Here is a quote from it..

“We can ignore even pleasure. But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”


― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain

I like that and see it as a great answer, except I'd add another reason...

We are God's hands - the kingdom of God is within all of us on this earth - even Atheists. ;)
So, why do we allow pain?
We each are either in tune and responsive to promptings to ease pain of ourselves and those within our sphere of influence, or we're not. Being imperfect, often many of us are not, and that is partly why many suffer.

because pain is a great teacher, and some lessons you only learn by pain. but don't worry, you can handle it.

Obrien wrote:because pain is a great teacher, and some lessons you only learn by pain. but don't worry, you can handle it.

Actually, I meant the pain I see others going through. Like Babies and children dying. The holocaust. Hunger.
There is a whole different category for this kind of suffering. I'm actually sorry I asked it. The answers I can think of are not that reassuring. I'm mean all the post are great and helpful.

Obrien wrote:because pain is a great teacher, and some lessons you only learn by pain. but don't worry, you can handle it.

This is the standard reply, but unfortunately doesn't cover many circumstances. Take for example the case some years ago in northern Idaho, not far from where I live.

A guy named Joseph Duncan was driving down the freeway and spotted some kids playing in a yard. He later came to the place, tied up the family, and with a hammer, beat to death mom, dad, and older brother. Took the youngest boy and girl into the mountains where he spent several days sexually abusing them. Tortured and killed the boy.

Perhaps someone can explain what can be learned from such an experience, because I can't come up with anything. If I was God, instead of blessing food, I would be protecting children from such heinous acts. I mean, how can any parent have the power to stop it, and do nothing? We would be appalled at such neglect. Don't know if I can progress eternally if we have to ignore such things while having the power to prevent them.

Let me say that if someone committed such atrocities against my kids, I'd spend the rest of my days working to eliminate them. That is what dads are for.

djinwa wrote:

Obrien wrote:because pain is a great teacher, and some lessons you only learn by pain. but don't worry, you can handle it.

This is the standard reply, but unfortunately doesn't cover many circumstances. Take for example the case some years ago in northern Idaho, not far from where I live.

A guy named Joseph Duncan was driving down the freeway and spotted some kids playing in a yard. He later came to the place, tied up the family, and with a hammer, beat to death mom, dad, and older brother. Took the youngest boy and girl into the mountains where he spent several days sexually abusing them. Tortured and killed the boy.

Perhaps someone can explain what can be learned from such an experience, because I can't come up with anything. If I was God, instead of blessing food, I would be protecting children from such heinous acts. I mean, how can any parent have the power to stop it, and do nothing? We would be appalled at such neglect. Don't know if I can progress eternally if we have to ignore such things while having the power to prevent them.

Let me say that if someone committed such atrocities against my kids, I'd spend the rest of my days working to eliminate them. That is what dads are for.

I could probably write a small book on this subject but will instead share a short story.

I had a friend who, excluding the deaths, had a situation that involved their child wherein heinous acts were committed against the child.
I, at the time, felt much like djinwa. Some time had passed and I was having a conversation with my friend and asked them how they had managed restraint(Opportunity for confrontation had been possible after the crime). My friend slowly looked up into my eyes and very humbly and with firm conviction stated; "If you do that you only take away their opportunity to repent".

Heleman. 14:30-31
"[30] And now remember, remember, my brethren, that whosoever perisheth, perisheth unto himself; and whosoever doeth iniquity, doeth it unto himself; for behold, ye are free; ye are permitted to act for yourselves; for behold, God hath given unto you a knowledge and he hath made you free.

[31] He hath given unto you that ye might know good from evil, and he hath given unto you that ye might choose life or death; and ye can do good and be restored unto that which is good, or have that which is good restored unto you; or ye can do evil, and have that which is evil restored unto you."

We, one and all, are free or we all are slaves.

Please, I pray that you might, come to understand and appreciate the magnitude of the gift of freedom/agency and realize that by limiting its full effects/consequences you limit not only the evil ones but yourself and loved ones.

EDITED for clarity.

14 And I will also ease the burdens which are put upon your shoulders, that even you cannot feel them upon your backs, even while you are in bondage; and this will I do that ye may stand as witnesses for me hereafter, and that ye may know of a surety that I, the Lord God, do visit my people in their afflictions. (Book of Mormon, Mosiah, Mosiah 24)


God doesn't promise is a problem-free life. He promises us that He will visit us in our affliction and that His Holy Spirit can be our constant companion.

1. Not all adversity is because of our own sins, weaknesses and mistakes; but some are.
2. Other adversity comes from the sins, weaknesses amd mistakes of others.
3. But much adversity is not necessarily because of sin but just a product of mortality. The Lord causeth it to rain upon the just and the unjust. But adversity is not without purpose.
4. We must know the bitter to appreciate the sweet. If we lived in Hawaii and it was always 70 degrees, we may not appreciate the good weather or even have a concept of temperature if the temperature never changed.
5. We cannot exhibit/develop Christ-like attributes without adversity. You cannot be patient and longsuffering unless you have something to be patient about or something to suffer.
6. In heaven everything was happy and perfect. God wants us to prove it to ourselves that we are not just fair-weather fans. Will we still love God like Job even when there is bad weather.
7. God gives us weaknesses and adversity to keep us close to Him, so that we will turn to Him and He promises to make those weaknesses strengths.
8. Also, like Christ, as we pass through sorrow we can better understand and mourn with those who mourn and comfort those who stand in need of confort.

Life is like being lowered into a well. We are a bucket and have to be lowered into the well to be filled with water (spirit). Then the Lord promises to draw us back out of the well unto himself. Our responsibility as the bucket is to make sure we are filled with water when the Lord comes to draw us back up out of the well unto Himself.

When the Jaredites were commanded to build barges to the Promises Land, the Lord helped them solve problems of having enough light and air to breath. But He did warn them that in their journey that there would be a furious wind and waves that would crash upon them and even bury them in the ocean. but that the purpose of the wind and the waves was to blow them towards the Promised Land. So it is with adversity in our own lives.

"The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away; blessed be the name of the Lord".

davedan wrote:14 And I will also ease the burdens which are put upon your shoulders, that even you cannot feel them upon your backs, even while you are in bondage; and this will I do that ye may stand as witnesses for me hereafter, and that ye may know of a surety that I, the Lord God, do visit my people in their afflictions. (Book of Mormon, Mosiah, Mosiah 24)


God doesn't promise is a problem-free life. He promises us that He will visit us in our affliction and that His Holy Spirit can be our constant companion.

1. Not all adversity is because of our own sins, weaknesses and mistakes; but some are.
2. Other adversity comes from the sins, weaknesses amd mistakes of others.
3. But much adversity is not necessarily because of sin but just a product of mortality. The Lord causeth it to rain upon the just and the unjust. But adversity is not without purpose.
4. We must know the bitter to appreciate the sweet. If we lived in Hawaii and it was always 70 degrees, we may not appreciate the good weather or even have a concept of temperature if the temperature never changed.
5. We cannot exhibit/develop Christ-like attributes without adversity. You cannot be patient and longsuffering unless you have something to be patient about or something to suffer.
6. In heaven everything was happy and perfect. God wants us to prove it to ourselves that we are not just fair-weather fans. Will we still love God like Job even when there is bad weather.
7. God gives us weaknesses and adversity to keep us close to Him, so that we will turn to Him and He peomises to make those weaknesses strengths.
8. Also, like Christ, as we pass through sorrow we can better understand and mourn with those who mourn and comfort those who stand in need of confort.

Life is like being lowered into a well. We are a bucket and habe to be lowered into the well to be filled with water (spirit). Then the Lord promises to draw us back out of the well unto himself. Our responsibility as the bucket is to make sure we are filled with water when the Lord comes to draw us back up out of the well unto Himself.

When the Jaredites were commanded to build barges to the Promises Land, the Lord helped them solve problems of having enough light and air to breath. But He did warn them that in their journey that there would be a furious wind and waves that would crash upon them and even bury them in the ocean. but that the purpose of the wind and the waves was to blow them towards the Promised Land. So it is with adversity in our own lives.

"The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away; blessed be the name of the Lord".

I don't expect him to help us with everyday problems. But it would be nice if he got involved and stopped the ELE. There were 5

The "little god" used in the OP is well placed... it denotes "man's" potential to "become" as "God" is. Which Christ knew was part of our spiritual evolution if we desired to "become" a "God" (in caps) ...we mortals would have to make "sacrifices" which is to experience "pain" as has been noted above and is required that we might understand what it means to "become" a "God" in the full sense of the word and "succor" those who need administering.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
(New Testament | John 10:34)

And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish.
(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 4:16)

djinwa wrote:

Obrien wrote:because pain is a great teacher, and some lessons you only learn by pain. but don't worry, you can handle it.

This is the standard reply, but unfortunately doesn't cover many circumstances. Take for example the case some years ago in northern Idaho, not far from where I live.

A guy named Joseph Duncan was driving down the freeway and spotted some kids playing in a yard. He later came to the place, tied up the family, and with a hammer, beat to death mom, dad, and older brother. Took the youngest boy and girl into the mountains where he spent several days sexually abusing them. Tortured and killed the boy.

Perhaps someone can explain what can be learned from such an experience, because I can't come up with anything. If I was God, instead of blessing food, I would be protecting children from such heinous acts. I mean, how can any parent have the power to stop it, and do nothing? We would be appalled at such neglect. Don't know if I can progress eternally if we have to ignore such things while having the power to prevent them.

Let me say that if someone committed such atrocities against my kids, I'd spend the rest of my days working to eliminate them. That is what dads are for.

I'm a dad and I have very similar feelings. I have a hard time imagining a scenario where I could be beaten to death with a hammer by one guy, thus exposing my family to that atrocity. That story makes me exceedingly sad and angry on many levels.

That said, working the rest of my days to inflict revenge in the most heinous way possible belies a flaw in my character. Jesus taught we must forgive all men. That is HARD DOCTRINE. Jesus does not present an easy path to traverse in life. His only promise is that eventually it will be worth whatever you go through. Ultimately, you either have faith and believe that, or you don't.

Yeah, forgiveness is a constant challenge - to forgive ourselves and others for being imperfect.

The alternative of forgiving ("giving" to go "for" ward) is being damned/held back.

I think it helps to realize the human possibility in all of us.
That and healthy boundaries.