LDS Freedom Forum

I'm not sure if anything will change. Its like they said "were not changing our minds BUT".

Benjamin_LK wrote:

coachmarc wrote:The church has been changing for 170+ years.

It has been maturing for 170+ years.

Maturing into what? Here along the mountains of Ephraim, Babylon is bigger than ever. Mormons were supposed to bid Babylon Farewell.

coachmarc wrote:

Benjamin_LK wrote:

coachmarc wrote:The church has been changing for 170+ years.

It has been maturing for 170+ years.

Maturing into what? Here along the mountains of Ephraim, Babylon is bigger than ever. Mormons were supposed to bid Babylon Farewell.

It is moving on and maturing, despite the sins and shortcomings that people who are members of the church are making. Babylon's pretty big in Pennsylvania, in fact, there's a club called Babylon on a major Pennsylvania highway, my wife or I, depending on who can closely reasonably reach my son and daughter in the car, cover our child's eyes when we reach that point, we don't even bother stopping at the Sheetz gas station along the way (Convenience Store similar to Flying J or WaWa). There are people in the church seeking to work out their own salvation.

Is Pennsylvania the benchmark for fleeing Babylon these days?

Steve Clark wrote:Is Pennsylvania the benchmark for fleeing Babylon these days?

Babylon is everywhere, but sometimes it actually is honest and upfront about it, in cases as I just mentioned.

I really don't think the church will be accepting gay marriage any time soon. I think they would prefer to lose their tax-exempt status than practice gay marriage (maybe that's when the $15 billion of liquid cash the church is sitting on will come in handy).

Still, the allusion to polygamy is interesting. The church didn't want to do away with polygamy. The first manifesto was issued to get the government off their backs and was never intended to actually ban polygamy. The church thought they could make concessions to the government while giving a big wink to the members. It was a smokescreen that ended up biting them in the butt. By the early 1900s they were compelled to actually enforce the law and a second manifesto was issued. Members still couldn't figure out if they were still supposed to practice polygamy or not.

First concessions are made, then the concessions are enforced and the smokescreen becomes reality.

jbalm wrote:Stone them.

I've been out of town travelling (again) - sooooo many comments to make on this thread, and so little time.

How is making Heather's mommies smoke marijuana going to solve the issue? Perhaps if EVERYONE took a puff...

TannerG wrote:Still, the allusion to polygamy is interesting. The church didn't want to do away with polygamy. The first manifesto was issued to get the government off their backs and was never intended to actually ban polygamy. The church thought they could make concessions to the government while giving a big wink to the members. It was a smokescreen that ended up biting them in the butt.

If only the Lord made some provisions when (his) people stray from His direction and start leading with their own doctrine.

Obrien wrote:
How is making Heather's mommies smoke marijuana going to solve the issue? Perhaps if EVERYONE took a puff...

You'd be surprised how many issues it solves.

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

Muerte Rosa wrote:It doesn't solve any issues just makes you stupid so you forget lol

I don't think I believe in refer madness. Some of the most intelligent people I have ever met (productive software engineers) smoke MJ every day and have for many years.

You don't have to smoke enough to forget. Just smoke enough to quit caring.

Muerte Rosa wrote:See that's a totally different thing jbalm. There's the short term fix and long term fix.

Wow you are really wise in the ways of the world.

I wish I could vote 3 times.

Remind me not to invite you to my farm.

natasha wrote:Guys...IF push comes to shove...the Church will stop civil marriages in our Temples and only sealings will be performed. They would probably also stop any civil marriages being performed in any of our chapels. Bishops would forgo the license to "marry".....and officiators in the temple would know longer have a "license" to marry....but no one can take away their keys of sealing.

Spot on Nat! :ymapplause: :ymhug:

Muerte Rosa wrote:

Lizzy60 wrote:

natasha wrote:Guys...IF push comes to shove...the Church will stop civil marriages in our Temples and only sealings will be performed. They would probably also stop any civil marriages being performed in any of our chapels. Bishops would forgo the license to "marry".....and officiators in the temple would know longer have a "license" to marry....but no one can take away their keys of sealing.

This won't solve the problem of practicing (legally and lawfully married) gays who will eventually want to attend church openly as a family (two moms with children for example) and who will want to attend the temple, citing their legal marriage as lawful, and not a violation of the law of chastity. How soon before they will also want to be sealed? We are seriously on a very slippery slope. I know that it seems impossible, but my grandmother thought it was impossible for blacks to receive the PH, until the millenium. Some here say it's unfair to compare blacks to gays, and I know there are differences, but the basic principle applies to both groups in that they claim God made them the way they were born, God loves them, and God should not deny them basic rights.

A legal marriage does not in any way equal conformity to the law of chastity. Even for straight couples.
I'm married but of i cheated on my husband I'm not living the law of chastity. If i married a woman, I would be LEGALLY married, but to have sex with someone of the same sex is not living the law of chastity. You just can't change that. Even if some people equate laws of the land with God's laws....God does not. That will never change.

Spot on too! :ymapplause:

Steve Clark wrote:

Muerte Rosa wrote:It doesn't solve any issues just makes you stupid so you forget lol

I don't think I believe in refer madness. Some of the most intelligent people I have ever met (productive software engineers) smoke MJ every day and have for many years.

And I've know some people who smoke it every day and it does impair their judgement overall - even when sober.

We need more conscientious people, not less.

Also, credible studies show Marihuana smoked or taken during pregnancy has adverse effects on the baby.

natasha wrote:Guys...IF push comes to shove...the Church will stop civil marriages in our Temples and only sealings will be performed. They would probably also stop any civil marriages being performed in any of our chapels. Bishops would forgo the license to "marry".....and officiators in the temple would know longer have a "license" to marry....but no one can take away their keys of sealing.

So you advocate going back to "traditional" LDS marriage, ie: a public ceremony NOT in the temple (see Times and Seasons Vol 3 page #939)? I agree with that sentiment 100%.
FWIW, I think it is quite a stretch to say no one can take away their keys of sealing. The Keygiver is ALWAYS at liberty to revoke the validity of "keys". A man who is a "key holder" only holds that franchise with consent of the Sovereign.

We can all see where society and the government are headed. Homosexuality or sexual orientation will be a protected class and marriage and having children (via artificial insemination, rhymes with abomination) will be officialized as "human rights" or "inalienable rights" and that will put all of these issues in direct conflict with religious freedoms.

The real test of the metal (or trial of faith) will be how the Church reacts when the fight becomes real, when they face disenfranchisement.

Geoff wrote:We can all see where society and the government are headed. Homosexuality or sexual orientation will be a protected class and marriage and having children (via artificial insemination, rhymes with abomination) will be officialized as "human rights" or "inalienable rights" and that will put all of these issues in direct conflict with religious freedoms.

The real test of the metal (or trial of faith) will be how the Church reacts when the fight becomes real, when they face disenfranchisement.

Why imply that artificial insemination is an abomination? It is to create life...the real abomination is all the people who prevent life from coming into this world. I have a heck of a lot of respect for lesbians who decide to have children - they are far more in line with Gospel principles than heterosexual couples who opt to remain childless.

Muerte Rosa wrote:Oh Obrien i so missed your captain obvious impressions.

I miss your shoulders...

ETA - TBM's never consider the possibility I raised in the earlier post. I know...I were one.

Which tradition?
The church has only endorsed monogamy since 1904.

The church would have condemned my marriage just 36 1/2 years ago. They still advise against it.

Crazy discussion..

all of this reminds me that we as a nation are just plain wicked and abominable..

and the church is becoming more and more like it because of its members.. the members end up choosing.. the majority wins right? we are taught to leave babylon, not live of the world but in it.. etc etc..

From Joseph saying he saw God, Jesus, and Angels to Polygamy, to Blacks and the Priesthood, to LGBT stuff now the church like which was stated before was despised of the world.. rejected of men.. cast out.. mobbed.. murdered.. driven from their homes etc..

The church is trying so hard to be 'accepted' and be 'friendly' with the world on many instances that have been stated. That is why so many people hate the PR branch of the church... consider the following scriptures and Quotes from early Prophets..

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."(John 15:18-19)

"Know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." (James 4:4)

"The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets, and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets and these had to hide themselves `in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth,' and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men." (T.P.J.S., p. 206)

"There is nothing that would so weaken my hope and discourage me as to see this people in full fellowship with the world, and receive no more persecution from them because they are one with them." (Brigham Young, J.D. 10:32)

"When Mormonism finds favor with the wicked in this laid it will have gone into the shade; but until the power of the Priesthood is gone, Mormonism will never become popular with the wicked." (Brigham Young, J.D. 4:38)

Thank you for posting the quotes from the past Prophets. Those quotes help give me the strength I need to stand firm against things that are wrong.