LDS Freedom Forum

Muerte Rosa wrote:There is NOTHING wrong with the pill.

At least not anymore.

While I believe (in many cases) the loving and moral choice would be to not discriminate against someone based on their sexual orientation, race, gender, religion, etc, I don't believe the government has any place enforcing that choice. If I want to choose to be discriminatory with my private property, it is within my rights to do so. The Church is supporting the further erosion of liberty by supporting anti-discriminatory legislation of any kind. The government itself can not discriminate because the government is supposed to represent all people, so Rosa Parks was well within her rights to demand she be allowed to sit at the front of the public bus. However, had that bus been run by a private company and their rules were that black people sit in the back, she would have had no right to demand they allow her to sit in the front. If there was a private bus company that discriminated that way, I would think the owners were bigoted jerks and not want to give them business, but I'd still respect their right to run their business however they choose to. If there are private businesses or individuals who don't want to hire people or house people they don't feel comfortable with, they have every right to say no. We can think they are bigoted jerks for treating certain groups of people that way, but they should be able to do it, even if we don't agree with it.

This is why Utah is "conservative" in word only. The government is used here so often to strong arm everyone into one version of morality. There is so little individual liberty here. People forget that freedom means allowing other people to make choices that may be different than your, including discriminating against groups they don't agree with.

ETA: I think it would have been wonderful had the Church came out saying they support each person's individual liberty and can, therefore, not support anti-discriminatory legislation. However, they encourage all of us to be loving to one another and choose, in our own personal lives, to not discriminate based on sexual orientation.

Muerte Rosa wrote:using that logic then i guess nobody should take any preventative measures or life saving measures.

And Steve. Shutty

I think there is a lot of truth there.

Would we be better off putting our medical trust in the lord and accepting his choice? Or is it better to put our trust in men? Most people want to prolong their lives because they don't really know God. They fear death. It's fear that drives them to prolong this pain filled test. Fear of the unknown. Non knowledge of God.

Studying the wow. You get the same info. Eat as nature intended the food to be. Organic In its season in a wholesome state.

Warnings of corn. Which is what all processed foods have in it.

With procreation a commandment with no limits on it. We shouldn't be putting limits on it either. Unless the spirit says diffrently to that individual.

Lizzy60 wrote:This example is only anecdotal, and not a statement of what the Brethren believe or teach, but when Packer's conference talk of several years ago was edited to say that the Proc on the Family is a "guide" instead of being a "revelation" that was in the original audio version, I asked my father, which is it? He told me that it is definitely a revelation, but the Church(tm) can't claim it as a revelation publicly, in writing, as it would undo all the good will they have created with the LGTB groups in SL, and the support the Church has given the anti-discriminatory laws.

I wonder what God would say about this, assuming He revealed the Proclamation to the Brethren?

"the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles now issue a proclamation to the Church and to the world as a declaration and reaffirmation of standards, doctrines, and practices relative to the family which the prophets, seers, and revelators of this church have repeatedly stated throughout its history." President Hinckley

So I guess the revelation wasn't new, it was a reaffirmation of whats already been taught. The revelation was that the reaffirmation and proclamation be given, but the message itself wasn't new revelation. And the church certainly has not back pedaled.

President Packer, or "Packard" as Boo always refers to him as, didn't change the meaning by changing words from his spoken talk in the written version. He also taught this-
"...men, women, even little children receive the right to inspired direction to guide them in their lives - revelation!" -Packer

So according to Packers thought process, revelation is a guide. So nothing was really changed then. But thanks for yet another anecdotal example that doesn't fit. But hey, it sounded legit to the skimmers 8-|

Muerte Rosa wrote:Who do you think medicine came from? Satan?

It's debatable.

Native Americans and native aborigonals live long lives into there hundreds. Native aborigonals were known for living 125 years. They never stepped foot in a medical facility. Or had moden medicine.

They used and knew the natural plants and herbs that God has provided us to be healthy. And they were. Their elders where respected because of there knowledge. Our elders are feable and loosing there minds?

If medicine is natural I see nothing wrong with it as I know it's from our creator. When it's a bunch of crazy chemicals that have a long list of negitive side effects it's not from God.

I've read accounts of the native Americans where their medicine men would often find plants the no one in the tribe had ever seen or heard of. They would be directed to these plants and know they were given to them for the purpose of healing the sick among them. And then the plants would never be seen again?
History of black elk. And others.

When it's many called and only a few chosen. We must if we want to be part of the few question what the masses are doing. Sometimes what they do is fine. Sometimes it's not.
But isant it funny that so many scoff and look down on anyone who wants to put their trust in the lord to be healed rather then man? D&c 121:38 says that those not chosen will kick aginst the pricks persecute the saints and fight against God.

I see that happening all the time in the medical field. Not to mention they as it says in 2 nephi 26:20 put down the miracles of God and teach unto themselfs their own wisdoms and their own learnings.

Muerte Rosa wrote:I don't have any problem with people putting their trust in the Lord. That's what I've decided to do with my MS. I can't tolerate the side effects of the meds. But as far as birth control. I think if we are meant to have kids we will. I have 4 right now. I'm on birth control because i can't handle another...at least not right now, but if it be God's will...it will happen anyways. BC is never 100%. Did you know a lot of women take BC to put their body back "in sync"?

Some ancient rap group is not a reason to use the pill.

Steve Clark wrote:

Thinker wrote:The only way one could even tell if another had "special sexual substitute (homosexual) preferences" is if they either said or showed so.

If a person is making such a big obsessive deal about their homosexual fetishes, then it would likely interfere with their job duties. On the other hand, if they kept their PRIVATE lives PRIVATE, there should be no problem.

I think it's pretty standard for people to do facebook checks on candidates applying for work. You don't have to be flamboyant in the interview itself.

Knowing that some (statistically about 1/3) of employers screen public facebook profiles, isn't that more reason to not be public about one's PRIVATE sex-life?

Again, this pathetic lack of logic that someone should get special treatment for having certain sexual substitutes (homosexual practices) is so ridiculous yet some actually fall for it!

Muerte Rosa wrote:I don't have any problem with people putting their trust in the Lord. That's what I've decided to do with my MS. I can't tolerate the side effects of the meds. But as far as birth control. I think if we are meant to have kids we will. I have 4 right now. I'm on birth control because i can't handle another...at least not right now, but if it be God's will...it will happen anyways. BC is never 100%. Did you know a lot of women take BC to put their body back "in sync"?

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, just pointing out that your position is in opposition to the church's previous stance on BC. That is all.

I belive that all our trials are God given. Well other then the ones are stupidity cause. Lol.
So is it wise to restrict our own trails?
Is it wise to use drugs to avoid them? If it was doctor prescribed or not.

If your not happy with your life just as it currently is. You will remain in that state of unhappiness tell you decide to be happy in that current time that you finnally do.

Muerte Rosa wrote:I don't have any problem with people putting their trust in the Lord. That's what I've decided to do with my MS. I can't tolerate the side effects of the meds. But as far as birth control. I think if we are meant to have kids we will. I have 4 right now. I'm on birth control because i can't handle another...at least not right now, but if it be God's will...it will happen anyways. BC is never 100%. Did you know a lot of women take BC to put their body back "in sync"?

I see what your saying. My wife and I do it the opposite route. We have never used any form of birth control. I have a 5 year old a 3 year old and a bun in the oven.

Ezra wrote:
Some ancient rap group is not a reason to use the pill.

Clever Ezra. That would have slipped way past me . My curiosity compels me to ask are you married? If so how many children do you have ? Thanks

Muerte Rosa wrote:If i wasn't on BC I'd have my own tv show.

Same here (or at least if my wife wasn't). We can pretty much choose our kids' birthday.

Ezra wrote:

Muerte Rosa wrote:I don't have any problem with people putting their trust in the Lord. That's what I've decided to do with my MS. I can't tolerate the side effects of the meds. But as far as birth control. I think if we are meant to have kids we will. I have 4 right now. I'm on birth control because i can't handle another...at least not right now, but if it be God's will...it will happen anyways. BC is never 100%. Did you know a lot of women take BC to put their body back "in sync"?

Some ancient rap group is not a reason to use the pill.

HAHAHA, good one Ezra

http://search.mercola.com/results.aspx? ... %20control" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are many dangers to health from practicing birth control

All I know is this. No other creatures of gods creation use birth control.

God created nature as our guide just as did scriptures. The more we remove ourself from nature. The more we are off the path. And farther we are away from the wisdom nature can provide.

And when you find something goes aginst nature to this degree. ????

You know God might have wanted us to breed the other religions out of exsistance.

Muerte Rosa wrote:Said the hippy

There you go persecuting the saints. Non chosen. ;)

It's amazing how you meet those people who almost beg to be teased. It even shows through the Internet mureta.

TR; I understand that no one other than lds Church people spoke at the broadcast. What I was asking was, where the seed for this broadcast came from? As I stated Elder Eyring has just returned from a Christian conference in Rome about this very subject..I find the coincidence very telling.

Muerte Rosa wrote:Said the hippy

Must be nice to have so many children you won't accept more :((

Muerte Rosa wrote:It's not that. If i had another of course I'd love and accept it. But i have my hands full with four.

More likly you spend to much of your time on here. Get back to the kitchen. Take care of them baby's.

Muerte Rosa wrote:Get in the kitchen? WOW!!!! X(

I tell my wife that she just laughs. She does need the practice though. She's getting better all the time.

Col. Flagg wrote:

BroJones wrote:Excellent news conference - declaring the intention of the Church to pursue freedom of speech as a Constitutional right - and not be silenced nor forced on LGBT issues.

I wonder how close their remarks came to crossing the line with the feds and jeopardizing their 501c3 status?

Dude, you want to complain about being taxed, how about half of all the food and whatever else you make? Limhi's people got that from the Lamanites, and they eventually overcame that situation. If that is the price of believing something, so be it.

Muerte Rosa wrote:Why would he be rolling in his grave?

I really don't understand why anybody is upset about this at all. I mean the church hasn't changed anything in regards to this matter. NOTHING. I mean all i see going on is that the church is looking for a way coexist peacefully with the rest of the world, while attempting to keep everyone's rights in tact. Is that so horrible? That they want to make things less contentious without condoning certain things?

And this isn't about protecting the corporation. That's about the dumbest thing I've heard all week. This world is full of a bunch of cry baby wimps. Like the gay couple that sued the baker cause he wouldn't make them a wedding cake? Wahhhh :(( REALLY???? Suck it up and find another baker!! Heaven forbid business owners have the same rights as the consumer.

From an accounting perspective, the Church is a corporation for the basis of limited liability. That way, some individual apostate has no right under the law to simply declare the whole church dissolved as he/she pleases, there also is no right of anyone, not even the first presidency, to simply grab a bunch of money out of church coffers either and use it for their own. Corporation is not a bad word, it's an organizational structure that occurs under the law when someone wants an organization where ownership is shared, and where you don't allow individuals to have so much power over everyone and everything else within the organization. It's not worth paying attention to the legally ignorant, or simply obssessively spiteful chatter that goes on calling "corporation" a dirty word, because it is not inherently bad, or good, it depends what the overall membership does with it.

That's where the foods at not a bad place to be.

Breakfast in bed everyday. Smart man.