LDS Freedom Forum

Robert Sinclair wrote:Had an interesting thought Robin Hood, if the United Order was in full operation and the entire Royal family converted to the LDS Church would they legally be able to concentrate all of their surplus properties to the LDS church? ♡ ♡

Robin Hood wrote:

Ezra wrote: But the United order done correctly isant all things in common. It's stewardship based. It's the tallents. If one person wants to be a rancher his stewardship will be a larger price of property then someone who wants to be a doctor. If that rancher is really good at what he dose and produced better quality of meat then another neighboring rancher he might be given part of that neighboring ranch to add into his stewardship.

Sounds dreadful to be honest.

Robin Hood wrote:So you're saying that if the guy next door is a better farmer than me, he gets some of my land. That would make me even less successful and him even more so. Then he would get some more of my land etc. So the rich get richer and the poor get poorer - very similar to our present world methinks.

barryjustin wrote:

KMCopeland wrote:Mormons have a terrible time accepting the idea that communism and the United Order spring from the same impulse: the impulse to be sure no one does without while his neighbors enjoy plenty. They can be counted on to freak out at the suggestion that there's anything good about communism or socialism even in their mere philosophical forms. You just can't talk to them about it without the words "evil" and "Satan's plan" turning up. It's as reliable as the sunrise. It has nothing to do anything actually objectionable about those two philosophies. You just can't discuss it. They go nuts. Well, most of them do.

The reluctance stems too, from a sort of morphing the politics of so many members has undergone over the years. Early saints were anti-slavery, and pretty progressive politically. Now your testimony is questioned if you're a even a Democrat, much less a liberal one.

It's a grave loss.

KMCopeland, you bring up some good points, but have watered down the argument about communism vs. the United Order. I happen to agree with you that it doesn't help anyone when people proclaim that communism is "evil" or "satan's plan" without much substance behind why they believe that (even though Hugh B. Brown, John Taylor, Bruce R., Neal Maxwell, David O. McKay and A HOST of others have said such). It is more profitable when people actually understand the program of the law of consecration and stewardship as it operates.

As for communism or socialism being evil, it is from a very solid doctrinal, scriptural, and prophetic standpoint (and an economic standpoint if we want to go that far). Joseph Smith said that "he did not believe the doctrine" of socialism (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 33) and made some pretty pointed remarks about the purpose and sacredness of private property (it is self-evident that private property is the antithesis of any communistic or any socialistic program):
“Concerning inheritances, you are bound by the law of the Lord to give a deed, secureing to him who receives inheritances, his inheritance for an everlasting inheritance, or in other words, to be his individual property, his private stewardship.” (Joseph Smith to Edward Partridge, June 25, 1833, Joseph Smith Letter Book 1829–35, 44–50, Church History Library)

"It has been reported by some vicious or deigning characters that the church of Latter Day Saints believe in having their pro[p]erty in common and also the leaders of sa[id] church controlls said propperty….This is a base fabrication,on the contrary no person’s feelings can be more repugnant to such a principle than mine[,] every person in this Church has a right to controll his own proppe[r]ty’” (Joseph Smith to Mr. Editor [of the Chester County Register and Examiner], 22 Jan. 1840.)

From the Institute manual link I posted in the original post: "The stewardship is private, not communal, property. The consecrator, or steward, was to be given a “writing,” or deed, that would “secure unto him his portion [stewardship]” (D&C 51:4). Although it has been acknowledged that all things belong to the Lord, a stewardship represents a sacred entrustment of a portion from God to the individual. The stewardship is given with a deed of ownership so that individuals, through their agency, are fully responsible and accountable for that which is entrusted to them."

The only thing that could possibly be considered communal in the Law of Consecration and Stewardship is the storehouse that is common property for the Church. This is not necessarily communistic though because people draw from it in order to expand there stewardship through free market processes, and after they take it out of the storehouse for their stewardship it is their private property. In short, the Law of Consecration and Stewardship can neither be properly called communistic or capitalistic. It is an animal to its own. But it does use free market processes in order to create more wealth and prosperity for individuals and for all those who partake out of the storehouse. In fact, corporations are compatible with the law of consecration which is self-evident by all the corporations that Joseph Smith sought to implement during his time in Kirtland, Missouri, and Nauvoo.

This one principle about how private property is so essential to the functionality of the Law of Consecration and Stewardship and how the abolition of private property is so fundamental to the philosophy of any and all communistic and socialistic ideas ought to show how different the two ideas are.

W. Cleon Skousen, in The Majesty of God's Law wrote: In 1967 a great leader whom I admired and loved (President David O. McKay) said that a crisis was coming to America and the legal minds of the nation were not getting ready to deal with it.

I discovered that the Founders were in-depth students of the Bible, and equally familiar with secular history, both ancient and modern.

I was surprised that they knew we would one day fulfill a prophecy of the ancient prophet, Moses: That in America we would one day practice the revealed code of righteous law given to the Israelites by God.

But as great as leaders of the nation turned out to be, they did not have a generation of what they called "virtuous people" who were ready and able to live under God's law. They said it would have to come some time in the future.

For the sake of the skeptic who might doubt that such an earthly paradise might ever be possible, I have cited in this book several instances when it actually happened, and most amazingly, a prophecy that it is going to happen again in modern times.

In this sense The Majesty of God's Law is a book for Americans about America. In the dark hours through which the nation is now passing, there is a tangible shaft of light and hope. The Founders knew about it and only regretted that it would not happen in their day. But it could happen in our day -- after the cleansing.

The challenge in writing this book was my own humble attempt to try and put it all together so that anyone could see what the Founders saw.

... Jefferson carefully compared the constitution of the Israelites with the laws of the Anglo-Saxons which were almost identical.

... the Founders were using the divine science of government revealed to the Israelites.

These people were the Anglo-Saxons.

Jefferson not only studied everything he could find out about these people who were the ancestors of most of the colonists, but he devoted many months to learning how to read the Anglo-Saxon language so that he could study their ancient principles of law and government from their original writings.

Where Did the Anglo-Saxons Come From?

According to the Saga(s) from the Anglo-Saxon oral history in Iceland, this people had originally lived in large numbers around the Black Sea until the first century BC. (This is the general area where the lost Ten Tribes of Israel lived until they disappeared.)

Their oral history, songs and tradition say that as a result of this migration they eventually settled in Germany and the Scandinavian countries.

Important to Jefferson (w)as the exciting fact that for centuries these people had been practicing many of the principles of government and law which God had given to Moses.

Impressed Jefferson … the fact that everywhere the Anglo-Saxons went, they established the highest order of government and law.

... Professor Gilbert Chinard, one of the distinguished biographers of Jefferson states:

"Jefferson's great ambition at that time was to promote a renaissance of Anglo-Saxon primitive institutions on the new continent. Thus presented, the American Revolution was nothing but the reclamation of the Anglo-Saxon birthright of which the colonists had been deprived by a `long train of abuses.'"

... On August 13, 1776, Jefferson wrote to Edmund Pendleton of the Virginia legislature to urge him to help abolish the remnants of feudalism, and return to the "ancient principles" which carry with them a promise from God. He wrote:

"Are we not better for what we have hitherto abolished of the feudal system? Had not every restitution of the ancient Saxon laws had happy effect? Is it not better now that we return at once into that happy system of our ancestors, the wisest and most perfect and most perfect ever devised by the wit of man, as it stood before the eighth century."

But, of course, Jefferson was far ahead of his time -- perhaps a couple of centuries or more. But eventually, he knew it had to happen.

Darren wrote:All those books I have under my avatar at the www link, I make available to those interested in the answer to the question of:

How did the lost tribes of Israel live and work together in their Communal Living? As that happened after Jesus Christ appeared to them, as continued in purity for many generations, with many elements found in the continuations of Anglo/Saxon Culture today.

Bruce and I have been talking about this for years, and alas we have been finding that people instead vote with their actions to continue to live by Babylon's parasitical system and ways.

The way the lost tribes of Israel lived and worked together in their Communes was the Law of Consecration and Stewardship.

W. Cleon Skousen, in The Majesty of God's Law wrote: In 1967 a great leader whom I admired and loved (President David O. McKay) said that a crisis was coming to America and the legal minds of the nation were not getting ready to deal with it.

I discovered that the Founders were in-depth students of the Bible, and equally familiar with secular history, both ancient and modern.

I was surprised that they knew we would one day fulfill a prophecy of the ancient prophet, Moses: That in America we would one day practice the revealed code of righteous law given to the Israelites by God.

But as great as leaders of the nation turned out to be, they did not have a generation of what they called "virtuous people" who were ready and able to live under God's law. They said it would have to come some time in the future.

For the sake of the skeptic who might doubt that such an earthly paradise might ever be possible, I have cited in this book several instances when it actually happened, and most amazingly, a prophecy that it is going to happen again in modern times.

In this sense The Majesty of God's Law is a book for Americans about America. In the dark hours through which the nation is now passing, there is a tangible shaft of light and hope. The Founders knew about it and only regretted that it would not happen in their day. But it could happen in our day -- after the cleansing.

The challenge in writing this book was my own humble attempt to try and put it all together so that anyone could see what the Founders saw.

... Jefferson carefully compared the constitution of the Israelites with the laws of the Anglo-Saxons which were almost identical.

... the Founders were using the divine science of government revealed to the Israelites.

These people were the Anglo-Saxons.

Jefferson not only studied everything he could find out about these people who were the ancestors of most of the colonists, but he devoted many months to learning how to read the Anglo-Saxon language so that he could study their ancient principles of law and government from their original writings.

Where Did the Anglo-Saxons Come From?

According to the Saga(s) from the Anglo-Saxon oral history in Iceland, this people had originally lived in large numbers around the Black Sea until the first century BC. (This is the general area where the lost Ten Tribes of Israel lived until they disappeared.)

Their oral history, songs and tradition say that as a result of this migration they eventually settled in Germany and the Scandinavian countries.

Important to Jefferson (w)as the exciting fact that for centuries these people had been practicing many of the principles of government and law which God had given to Moses.

Impressed Jefferson … the fact that everywhere the Anglo-Saxons went, they established the highest order of government and law.

... Professor Gilbert Chinard, one of the distinguished biographers of Jefferson states:

"Jefferson's great ambition at that time was to promote a renaissance of Anglo-Saxon primitive institutions on the new continent. Thus presented, the American Revolution was nothing but the reclamation of the Anglo-Saxon birthright of which the colonists had been deprived by a `long train of abuses.'"

... On August 13, 1776, Jefferson wrote to Edmund Pendleton of the Virginia legislature to urge him to help abolish the remnants of feudalism, and return to the "ancient principles" which carry with them a promise from God. He wrote:

"Are we not better for what we have hitherto abolished of the feudal system? Had not every restitution of the ancient Saxon laws had happy effect? Is it not better now that we return at once into that happy system of our ancestors, the wisest and most perfect and most perfect ever devised by the wit of man, as it stood before the eighth century."

But, of course, Jefferson was far ahead of his time -- perhaps a couple of centuries or more. But eventually, he knew it had to happen.

Anyone interested in learning about these truths of the Law of Consecration and Stewardship from these Ancient Communes?

God Bless,
Darren

Up to about the year 1,000 A.D. all of the people of Scandinavia worked together on the basis of all being in the same BUSINESS one with another. This included the people of Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, almost all of the British Isles and other Colonies.

They worked together on the basis of all being in the same BUSINESS with one another because in those days they all had and used the “Original Charter of the Law,” which had written on it the PURPOSE OF THE LAW. Because they all had the same, one PURPOSE, on their Business Charter, they were all one BUSINESS. Greco-Roman GOVERNMENT was entirely unused among them. (So, as we have seen, modern Americans are always talking about getting GOVERNMENT out and letting BUSINESS run things. But, they will never be able to until they all have a knowledge of and all subscribe to the single PURPOSE of their Law again, just as all of their Scandinavian Ancestors did, up to about the year 1,000 A.D.)

At about the year 1,000 all Scandinavians decided to stop working together strictly as a BUSINESS and allowed the Greco-Roman idea of GOVERNMENT into their lives instead. Prior to that their lives had all been “business-like”; from then on their lives would be mostly “fooling around.”

“Money” is not “Business.” “Money” is a Greco-Roman word and concept. “Business” is, originally, a Viking word and concept. “Money” has NOTHING TO DO with “Business.” “Money” is created by Greco-Roman Government telling people that they CANNOT KNOW what their own PURPOSE is. “Business” is created by a group of people all coming to a knowledge of and subscribing to the same PURPOSE.
The hundred years after the year 1,000 A.D. was a very bloody 100 years for the Scandinavian peoples. During that 100 years they decided to introduce Greco-Roman GOVERNMENT among themselves so that after they conquered the Mediterranean Sea area (during what others named, the “Crusades”), with all of its trade, they would know how to administer it, with Greco-Roman GOVERNMENT or, in one word, “Money.”

That bloody 100 years ended with them essentially accomplishing their goal with their victory in the First Crusade. It was such a bloody 100 years IN Scandinavia, though, because in order to introduce “money” and Greco-Roman Government there, they had to DESTROY the copies of the Original Charter of the Law with everyone’s PURPOSE written down on it. This occurred during those 100 years except in Scandinavia’s very remote outpost across the Atlantic, on the fringe of America. That was Iceland.

Of course Iceland had to hand in all of its copies of the “Original Charter” to the Leaders of the Norwegian Vikings when the decision was made to change life among Scandinavians over from being strictly “business-like” to being mostly “fooling around,” that is, with the introduction of Money. But, there was a peculiarity in Iceland. The Ancestors of the Icelanders, who had first come there from Norway, were the most educated people in Norway. They left when they saw that life there was getting to be just more and more “fooling around,” as Scandinavia got ready for what it thought was a final showdown with Catholicism. They took all of their vast resources for learning with them from Norway to Iceland and have remained there in Iceland, as an entire people, the Most Educated Country in the World ever since. An example of this may be in place. The best place in the world to be from, with one exception, if you are of European extraction and want to know your Genealogy, is New England. Since the people of New England have been very orderly and literate from the beginning, have kept very thorough records and have had no Wars there that have destroyed their Records, a person may find a Record for nearly every one of his/her Ancestors who lived there, all of the way back to when New England was founded by the Pilgrims, in 1620 A.D. There is NOTHING like that available to any other people of European descent, with one exception. That one exception is Iceland. There is a record of every Icelander who has ever lived there. Every modern person of Icelandic blood may trace his or her ancestry back to the day when those first educated people from Norway came there, to found Iceland, in 870 A.D.

So, the Icelanders all handed in all of their copies of the Original Charter of the Law to the Leaders of Norway, to be destroyed, in the year 1,000 A.D. However, because they were all so educated, it is presumed that 100% of all Icelanders have been literate throughout the entire history of Iceland, THEY ALL REMEMBERED THE STORY.

When the Crusaders from Northwest Europe won the Fourth Crusade, in the year 1204, they at last had destroyed their more than a millennium-old Mortal Enemy, the Byzantine-Roman Empire. At that time they began to rule it. Now they had become the “Ultimate Issuing Authority” behind European Money in place of the Byzantines. This required, at the least, a very vicious extirpation of any remaining idea that the people of Northwest Europe still retained of what their PURPOSE was. When the Crusader Normans who ran England tried that in England they found that the Danish people in the Danelaw of Eastern England had grown to such numbers in that lush, fertile place that they and their Earls could force a termination of that effort. It was, then, these Free Sokemen, or “Commune Men,” from the Communes of the “Weapontakes” of the Danelaw, in England, who forced King John to sign the Magna Carta.

The people of Iceland were not quite so lucky. In their relatively barren land they had not multiplied in like strength as the Anglo-Danes of England’s Danelaw. They were relatively easy prey to the ruthless Crusader Normans, sent to Iceland, in these same times that produced the Magna Carta in England, to destroy there any surviving memory of the Purpose of Law. This was done quite completely, even bringing a temporary halt to the operations of the Parliament of the Commonwealth of Iceland, that had begun its operations in 930 A.D.

However, as these efforts progressed, to strengthen the concept of “Money” throughout Europe, by utterly destroying any remaining knowledge that the people of Northern Europe might have retained of the “Purpose” of their Law, they came upon what turned out to be an impossibility for their project, in the person of the man, Snorri Sturlusson, who had served as the High Steward of Iceland’s Commonwealth at the time the Magna Carta was signed, in England. The more that the Crusader Normans decreed that all knowledge of the Original Charter of the Law should be destroyed, the more this High Steward of the Law in Iceland “wrote it down.”

At last, in desperation the King of Norway ordered that this High Steward be killed. He was finally killed on September 22, 1241 A.D., but not before he had written down a quite complete copy of the ORIGINAL CHARTER OF THE LAW, which his friends in Iceland succeeded in hiding until long after the pressure was off. As a matter of fact, in a little more than 250 years, the pressure had turned the other way.
The Kaiser and the Pope wanted to take authority away from the Traditional Rulers of Northern Europe, around the year, 1500 A.D. They were doing this with their standard, age-old assertion of Socrates that none of the people had any idea at all what was good for them, that all of the rest of the people could agree with. The people of the “Sokes” or “Communes” of Scandinavia, on the other hand, in general had hung on, with an almost incredible tenacity, to every scrap of the tradition of their ancient Ancestors, in resistance to this universal assertion of Socrates that is the essence of the Catholicism that they all hated so desperately.

During these times, just before the 1500’s, when the Kaiser and the Pope were trying to reassert their authority over the Money of all of Europe, by their same “tried and always proven effective” assertions of Socrates and his fellow ancient Greek Philosophers, the King of Denmark was getting desperate as to what in the world he could do to protect his traditional base of power from the Kaiser and the Pope.
At this moment of his considerable distress, an Icelander got the word to him that the High Steward of Iceland, that had led Iceland at the time of the Magna Carta uprising in England, had written down almost the entirety of the Original Charter of Law.

At hearing this, the King had Copies of it duplicated and distributed throughout his Realm of Denmark, Iceland, Norway and Sweden, all joined under one King at that time, to be prepared against the ominous-seeming scheme that the Kaiser and the Pope seemed to be plotting. Eventually a Copy of that High Steward of Iceland’s Original Charter of the Law was eagerly welcomed into, and, with the Bible, made the heart of, nearly every home in Scandinavia, like a dearly beloved, long-lost child, who was long ago despaired of but who suddenly appeared back again at the house’s door.

With that heart-felt acceptance into the homes of almost all Scandinavians, the name of that former High Steward of Iceland, Snorri Sturlusson, became household words throughout Scandinavia, and almost all of the details of his Original Charter of the Law are now known by all Scandinavians. But, there is a catch.

All Scandinavians identified with this Original Charter very much. It explained where all of their Parliaments came from, where Juries came from, where all of their Rights came from, all of their Traditions, Folk Customs, Practices, Holidays, old way of Writing, their most ancient Monuments, the place-names in these Countries etc. etc. BUT, Scandinavians aren’t supermen. They are very human. The Original Charter is in form a wonderful, beautiful “Story.” Scandinavians delight in telling it, for all of the incredible number of explanations it gives for so many of the features of life in Scandinavia; however, on top of that, they hardly expect that the rest of the world would actually anticipate that they BELIEVE the Story.

They love the Story; they love to tell it; they love to talk about it; but they DON’T believe it.

Instead they treat the Story of the Original Charter of Law in, quite nearly, the same way that Americans treat the story of Santa Claus (which story is, indeed, contained in the Story of the Original Charter). They tell the story to their children; it has been required learning in Schools throughout Scandinavia, now, for a long while. They drill them in it and expect them to know it. They take tourists to the places where it was all supposed to have happened; they tell the tourists the Story; and then they have a big laugh. To them it is a joke, a joke that pervades life in Scandinavia, but a joke none-the-less.

This Story shows the origin of the “fairy tales” of the Germanic race, such as were collected by the Grimm Brothers in Germany. Indeed, we could say that the Scandinavians treat that Story in the same way that Americans do Fairy Tales.

Mormon Genealogy Work

When the Lord restored the Church He said that the “first responsibility” of the Latter-day Saints was “to seek after their dead”: to do Genealogy Work and learn of their Ancestors. Accordingly they began slowly putting together a more and more complete picture of where the Records of their Ancestors were. Before long they made a discovery. Almost all of the important Genealogical Records, of the People of Northern Europe, were kept in the Commune Meetinghouses of all of the thousands of tiny Communes into which all of “Germanic” or Nordic Europe is divided. So the Church undertook a massive program to microfilm all of these Commune Records throughout Europe. It then bored a Tunnel into a solid granite mountain near Salt Lake City and stored those precious Records in Vaults reached by the Tunnel. If a nuclear explosion went off at the door of the Tunnel, it still would not damage these very Valuable Records of Europe’s Communes inside. This is, incomparably, the ultimate authority on Earth as to what the true “-ISM” of the COMMUNES of Europe is.

The assembly of those Commune Records, into these Vaults, is largely the work of one man. His name was Archibald F. Bennett. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints formally advertised Archibald F. Bennett as, “the man who probably knew more about Genealogy than any man who has ever lived.”

In the early days of his career, in the early 1930’s, Archibald F. Bennett used to say that it was possible to prove that the Story in the Original Charter of the Law was not a fairy tale but THAT IT WAS TRUE. It could be proven by all of the most ancient Germanic Genealogies kept all over Europe. Toward the end of his career, in the early 1960’s, he used to say that it was possible to prove that the Story of the Original Charter was TRUE, THAT IT COULD BE DEFINITIVELY PROVEN THAT IT WAS TRUE FROM ALL OF THE COMMUNE RECORDS THAT HE HAD GATHERED FROM EVERY CORNER OF EUROPE.

“So, what is the Story of the Original Charter of the Law?”

The Ynglinga Saga

The story starts out, in Icelandic, “Kringla heimsins, su er manfolkit byggvir ...” “(This) SPHERE of our home, which is the dwelling place of mankind ...” That is, at Snorri Sturlusson’s day (centuries before Copernicus and Galileo) but likely back to more than 1900 years ago, when this Saga begins, the people of Scandinavia knew that the Earth was a “sphere,” in contrast to the sadly ignorant ideas of the flat land in the middle of a “One-spin,” of the Greeks and Romans. For this reason (the interesting first two words of this Saga), the entirety of “The Sagas of the Kings of Norway” has been called, “The Heimskringla.”

The Story says that about 2,000 years ago (from now) there was a Great King who ruled the ancient sacrificial city in the part of Asia that was at the east end of the Mediterranean Sea. The Vikings called this city, “Asia-city.”

“... that city ... was a great place for sacrifice. It was the custom there that twelve temple priests should both direct the sacrifices, and also judge the people.”

It was the custom of the Great King that:

“... when he sent his men ... on any expedition, that he first laid his hands upon their heads, and called down a blessing upon them; and then they believed their undertaking would be successful. His people also were accustomed, whenever they fell into danger by land or sea, to call upon his name, and they thought that always they got comfort and aid by it, for where he was they thought help was near. Often he went away so far that he passed many seasons on his journeys.

... It happened once when (he) had gone a great distance, and had been so long away that the people of Asa (Asia) doubted if he would ever return home ...”

At this point two brothers made an arrangement between themselves for the support of the King’s mother. Her name was “FREE”; and it is from her that we get the word. “free,” as well as the concept that that word means that was given to us by her son, the King.

These two brothers’ names were “Way” and “Will.” They were two of the leaders of the twelve “temple priests.” From Will we get the word “will” as well as such names as, “William,” “Will,” “Wilson” etc. From Way we get the word “way” as well as such names as “Wayland,” “Wesley” and “Wessington” (the original pronunciation for “Washington”). From the two brothers together we get the ancient expression, “Where there is a WILL there is a WAY.”

However, after this arrangement for the support of the King’s mother was concluded, the King came back. He took his mother back and told his people there in Asia-city that he had a plan for them. The words of the plan in the English translation of the Saga are:

“In those times the Roman chiefs went wide around in the world, subduing to themselves all people; and on this account many chiefs fled from their domains. But (the King) having foreknowledge, and magic-sight, knew that his posterity would come to settle and dwell in the northern half of the world. He therefore set (the) brothers Ve (Way) and Vilje (Will) over Asgaard (Asia-city); and he himself, with all the gods and a great many other people, wandered out, first westward ...

They first went through “Turkland” (the Viking name for “Turkey”), where the King “had great possessions.” Then they came to the north shore of the Black Sea. There on the Don River were people who were related to the people of Asia-city. From these people the King chose certain men to replace the two brothers left in Asia-city (perhaps to oversee the old and others unable to travel). With the full Twelve and this additional people they continued their traveling.

When the King, the Twelve and the small band of people from Asia came to Germany they met a problem. The people of Germany had not too long before succeeded in annihilating the Legions of the Roman General, Varus and driving all other Romans back, over the Rhine River, and out of Germany. “Who did this small band of people think they were, coming into Germany?” might have been their reasoning.

The King was able to fly and knew of the Army that the People of Germany were gathering against his small Band of followers, so he called the Twelve to him. He explained to the Twelve that the Germans didn’t know who he was but that he knew the way for them to learn. He told the Twelve to take off their “shirts” so that they were “bare-shirted.” (The leather coat with the steel rings was called a, “serk,” a word similar to the modern word, “shirt,” and the origin of that word.) “Bare-shirted,” then, the King sent the Twelve into the assembled Armies of the Germans with instructions to reduce those Armies with their bare fists. This they did.

After that Victory, the small Band then began the Administration of Germany. The “Reich” of Germany is divided into many “Lands” (like Great Britain is divided into the “Lands” of England, Scotland etc.). The “Lands” of Germany are divided into Shires. The German name for, “shire” is, “gau.” And, just as the Shires of England and Scotland are divided down into the tiny Counties where a Twelve-man Jury may judge the people every three months, so are the “gaus” or Shires of Germany, today, still divided into those small Counties. But, in Germany each of those small Counties is called, a “Bare-shirt,” for the TWELVE BARESHIRTS, who brought Law to Germany. It is from these Twelve men that the concept of the Twelve-man Jury came to the Germanic North of Europe. In Germany it became the “custom” thereafter, that these Twelve (and others who did what they did) would “judge the people.”

Because the King was “All-wise” and had foreknowledge he chose not to build his, headquarters, for administering Germany and Europe on the Continent of Europe. Instead he built it on an Island just off the coast of peninsular Denmark. Because it was his headquarters the name of that Island is the name for “perfect joy”: “Fun.”

Then, from Denmark, the King went over to the only part of Europe that has never been conquered, Sweden. The most unconquerable part of Sweden is the almost isolated stretch of land going immediately north from Stockholm. The name of this stretch of land is “Upland.” There, in the middle of Upland, the King and his followers founded the city of “Upper Salem,” “Uppsala.” (The Vikings called Jerusalem, “Jor-sala. “) There at Uppsala they had a great Temple built, which forever after that was a religious center for Scandinavia. Uppsala is still the “intellectual capital” of Sweden.

To the west of Stockholm there is a great Lake that is called, Maelare Lake, that, with other large Lakes, almost divides north Sweden from south Sweden. The King formed that Lake by the miracle of raising up a Mountain, that had been there, and putting it over into the Sea. That Mountain, then, in the Sea, was, thereafter, called, “Sea-land.” Today that is the Danish Island of Sjaelland (which means, “Sea-land,” in Danish), on which the Danish City of Copenhagen is located and which Island is the “Old ‘Zealand’” (in English) for which, “New Zealand” was named. He named the new Lake that formed there, “LAKE LAW” and built a small Temple on its shore. The place where he built that temple he called, “Sigtuna.” “Sig” is Swedish for “victory.” “Tuna” is Swedish for “town.” 400 years later, (as told in the Icelandic book, “The Prose Edda”), when Attila the Hun wanted to marry the Burgundian Princess, in the story at the heart of the “Nibelungen Lied,” Attila had to take his oath by that Temple at Sigtuna.

When he had built his Temple at Sigtuna, on the shore of Lake LAW, the great King then gave in that Temple, to the people of Northern Europe,

“... the same law ... that had been in force in Asaland.”

The Original Charter of the LAW

This is LAW.

Speaking to the Leaders of Northern Europe, as they came to his Temple, at Lake LAW, the King told them the following:
(Speaking of his mind’s eye, the eye within our heads with which we mentally look) “In the life before this one I gave this eye within my head to my ‘perfect’ or ‘complete’ or THORough’ Father. We call him ‘THOR’ or ‘THUR.’

In return, He gave me a seed out of his own body. With this seed I then created Heaven and Earth.

At length I came down to Earth, born of my mother, FREE, and lived among my people in Asaland. At the end of my work there I was hung upon the Tree of Life ...”

The following are the words which the King spoke about that event, as recorded, by Icelandic Writers before Snorri Sturlusson’s time, in the Icelandic book, “The Poetic Edda.”

“I ween that I hung on the windy tree,
hung there for hours full nine;
With the spear I was wounded, and offered I was,
On the tree that none may ever know
What root beneath it runs.
None made me happy with loaf or horn,
And there below I looked;
I took up the runes, shrieking I took them,
And forthwith back I fell.
Then began I to thrive, and wisdom to get,
I grew and well I was;
Each word led me on to another word,
Each deed to another deed,”

Then,
“The branches of the Tree of Life go above all things. The roots of that Tree go below all things. So I descended below all things. And now I have ascended above all things. So now all things, the deeds of all men, are ever before my eyes. But, I can never LOOK to them. All that I can ever look to is my Father’s glory. Now if you will give me your eye, in the same way that I have given my eye to my Father, then the same relationship that exists between my Father and me will exist between me and you.

Then, all of the things that you have SEEN that destroy you ...

The English word “sin” is the same as the word “seen.” Anciently it meant that which your inner eye has “seen” that destroys you. In the Swedish Language the word for “vision,” something which someone has “seen,” is still said, “syn.” The tract “Joseph Smith’s First Vision,” in Swedish, is “Josef Smith’s Förste Syn.”

... won’t destroy you anymore, because EVERYTHING is before my eyes, AND NOTHING DESTROYS ME.

To show all this relationship it is necessary for you to first be ‘dipped’ under water by a person having the authority which I have given to the Twelve Asians.”

Throughout Scandinavia and the Germanies the Catholic word “baptism” has never replaced the different Germanic versions of the word “dip.”

“Then someone with that authority must lay their hands upon your head, as I laid mine on the Twelve, to give you the constant companionship of Tue, the third person in association with my father and me in the ‘Godhead,’ whom we call, ‘the Holy Ghost.’ because he has no body, at this time, as we have.

The Scandinavian word, “God-head” (the “head” being the Scandinavian way of saying “hood,” as in “maidenhead” for “maidenhood”) and the expression, “Holy Ghost,” have likewise withstood replacement by Catholic words.

“You may have his constant companionship as long as you keep your eye single to my glory. For then you will be ‘born’ in the same way that I was; that is, you will be FREE, just the same as I have always been since I was born — of my mother, FREE.

Then, what is more, if you will bring your women to my Temple and there both give me your eye, as I have given my eye to my Father, then I will show you how to live together and give life together in a state purer than you knew when you were little children, for then you will BE Wed; and that is my name.

Then you will live together in my Law: Wed-lock. Then you will have a father-in-law, mother-in-law etc.”

His Name

This “great King,” from “Lower Salem,” “Asia-city,” who brought “Law” to Europe, was named “Woden” (in English), as in the word, “Wednesday.” He was the God of the Germanic peoples, before they came into contact with Socrates, telling them that they couldn’t know what was good for them; that is, before they came into contact with “Catholicism,” in its original sense. He was their God. In fact, the names, “God” and “Lord,” were, originally, names that were used for him.

The Anglo-Saxons called him “Woden” and said his name “Wen” when they said it quickly: as the pronunciation “Wensday” for the word “Wednesday.”

The Vikings called him “Oath” or “Othen”; the “en” on the end is the Scandinavian way of saying “the.” So, the name “Othen” means “the Oath.” To this day he is called, “Othin,” in Iceland. In continental Scandinavia the name is said, “Odin,” today. When Scandinavians say his name quickly they say, “On,” and say the word, “Wednesday,” “Onsdag.” So his name in some contexts became simply, “O.”

In a number of name pairs we see him called just “O.” Some of these name pairs are “Thurmond” and “Osmond” = “Thor’s authority” and “Odin’s authority,” “Thorwald” and “Oswald” = “Thor’s wealth” and “Odin’s wealth,” and “Thurgood” and “Osgood” = “Thor is God” and “Odin is God.” Other instances of this are: “Oscar,” “Oslo,” “Osbome,” “Osric,” “Oswell” etc. Scandinavians say the word “holy,” “hellig.” When Vikings used to meet they would shake hands in memory of their Temples and say, “Holy Odin!” That came out, “Hellig Odin” or, “Hello!”

By far the largest Populations that accepted his Law were the Populations of Germany. The Germans called him, “Wotan” pronounced “VOTAN” (just like Richard Wagner’s name is pronounced “Vagner”).

Odin’s Work

“When Odin of Asaland came to the north, and the Diar with him, they introduced and taught to others the arts which the people long afterwards have practiced. Odin was the cleverest of all, and from him all the others learned their arts and accomplishments; and he knew them first, and knew many more than other people. But now, to tell why he is held in such high respect, we must mention various causes that contributed to it. When sitting among his friends his countenance was so beautiful and dignified, that the spirits of all were exhilarated by it ... Another cause was, that he conversed so cleverly and smoothly, that all who heard believed him. He spoke everything in rhyme, such as now composed, which we call scald-craft. He and his temple priests were called song-smiths, for from them came that art of song into the northern countries.”

“Odin could ... be off in a twinkling to distant lands upon his own or other people’s business. With words alone he could quench fire, still the ocean in tempest, and turn the wind to any quarter he pleased. Sometimes even he called the dead out of the earth ... He taught all (his) arts in Runes ... he could know beforehand the predestined fate of men. (He could give people health.) From these arts he became very celebrated. He taught the most of his arts to his priests of the sacrifices, and they came nearest to himself in all wisdom ... (The people called Odin their God and believed in him) and the twelve chiefs from Asaland ... long after.”

We have mentioned the word “Runes.” “Rune” means two things. To this day it is the Finnish word for, “poem.” Odin also introduced a “Runic” Alphabet to the Germanic world. The letters of this Alphabet were, generally, long strokes with smaller side strokes. The reason for this was that Odin brought his own writing system to Northern Europe, which was one that everyone could use to read and write. He taught the people to cut strips of wood from “beech” trees. “Beech” is said “buche” in German. The town of “Buchenwald” means “Beech woods.” The word, “buch,” is also German for, “book.” This was because Odin taught the people to carve, with “wrist” movements, the Rune Alphabet into the strips of beech wood. This carving, in “book” wood, with an instrument in hand, with “wri-st” movements with that instrument, was called “to wri-te” or “to write” in “books.”

He organized all of Europe, from the Rhine to the Volga and from the Danube north to the Arctic Ocean, into a great Reich (this was pronounced “rich” or “ric” in Old English, as in the word “bishop-ric,” which means a “bishop’s kingdom”). Since this Reich was ruled by the Twelve to whom he had given the “keys” to rule it, it was called the, “key-reich,” “kirche” in German, “kerk,” in Dutch, “kyrka,” in Swedish, “kirk,” in Scottish and, originally, “ci-ric” (pronounced, “key-ric”), then “church,” in English.

When he came to Northern Europe the Germanic peoples were already organized the way that Moses had organized the House of Israel. The men of Israel were divided into “tribes,” each Tribe with a “Land,” which were divided into “thousands,” which were divided in “hundreds,” which were divided into “tens.” This same Organization is the age-old Historical Organization of all Germanic Lands. So, the great “Key-reich” or “Church” of North Europe was divided into Tribes (like the Visigoths) each occupying a “Land.” The Lands were divided into “Shires” (the “Thousands”). The Shires are divided into the small Counties (some called “hundreds” in England, “hundra-s” in Sweden and “hundertschaft-s” — “hundredships” in Germany, and “bezirks”). These were in turn divided down into “tenships,” or “townships,” or COMMUNES.

Odin named most of the days of the Israelite week of the Germans after the members of his Family. “Saturday,” “Zatterdag” in Dutch, and “Lordag” in Swedish, meant “Laws day.” Odin said that he was the Son of God, that he was both born and risen from the dead on the First Day of the Week. So he named it, “Son-day.” (In Scandinavia the name of the first day of the week is as in “Somebody’s SON” day, not “SUN up in the sky” day.)

On that day the People of all Northern Europe were to meet and eat “meat” and drink “mead” in his memory. From the people of all of the Communes, of Northern Europe, getting together to eat “meat,” the word “meet” came to mean to “gather.” (These millions of “meetings” of all of the Peoples of the many thousands of COMMUNES of Europe are the source of the records of these COMMUNES which are stored beneath the stone mountain to the southeast of Salt Lake City.) This was the BEGINNING OF “COMMUNES.”

At the small County or “bezirk” level, the people from the Communes, in a bezirk, got together every three months to attend to their more general business, and that is the source of The Common Law of England and of Scandinavia and of the traces there are that are left throughout the rest of the Germanic Countries. The reason that these small Counties were so important was because Odin organized the Gild System to “operate” at that level.

Odin organized the Men of North Europe into the Gild System. It was therein that from Him all of the Men of Industrialized Europe, “learned their arts and accomplishments.” In other words, He is the source of the Industrial Advancement of the Industrially Advanced Countries.
He taught them Naval Architecture. This centered upon the ship which he called, “Skidbladnir.” The Gild-artisans of Northern Europe eventually made the great Viking Navies on this basis; and nearly all modern naval terminology comes from those ships built in those times.

He taught them the art of weaving in which they became such masters. There is one most intricate weaving pattern on display in the Nordiska Myseet in Stockholm that is the exact duplicate of the weave of the ancient “weavers of death,” so named for the death shrouds they made to bury people, in the early days of the Christian era, in the Atacama desert, on the coast of Southern Peru and Northern Chile. That weave, discovered in grave goods, found in that desert, has been found in almost new condition because it almost never rains there.
Another similarity between ancient Scandinavia and that part of South American are the great “designs,” visible from the sky, which are either carved onto mountains or otherwise put over large distances of ground. In Scandinavia Odin taught the people to do this. He instituted the concept of “gravestones” and taught the people to carve in them. He taught them to carve T-shaped crosses and to show him as a “snake” draped on those crosses. These “snakes,” of course, were just two long, parallel lines chiseled into the stone. Within these two lines people would write an epitaph in the Runic Alphabet which Odin taught to them. Because this form of writing was so all-important to them, the Norwegian people developed the habit of expressing the thought, “to speak Norwegian,” as, “to ‘snake’ Norwegian.” (That etymology also explains Danish usage.) We see the same result in Swedish, if we remember that all that a snake is, is a big, long “tail,” when the Swedish express, “to speak Swedish” as, “to ‘tail’ Swedish.” (This might also be helpful in the research of the etymology of the English word, “tell.”)

What is more significant, though, was the REASON why Odin wanted to be shown as a serpent coiled around a cross. It was because if you would look at Him, wrapped around “The Tree of Life,” in that manner, then you would have “the Fruit of the Tree of Life,” that is, you would live forever. The “serpent motif” by which the Vikings always represented Odin, for this reason, as on the bow of their ships or on their great carvings on the sides of mountains, is the exact same as the serpent design for Quetzalcoatl used by the Indians of Mexico.
The great many other distinctive industrial arts of the Germanic peoples, which they learned “from him,” included: the dairy and beef cattle breeding for which Germanic peoples have been so famous; horse breeding (including very large, very small and very fast horses); the “house architecture” of Northern Europe (which is the pattern of most American homes); as mentioned, the weaving, but also the designing of the “folk costumes” of the Northern European peoples, which they wore when they first came into contact with the Romans, and which is the pattern for the clothing of Northern Europe that today is used around the world as standard dress; various types of smithing, mining, smelting etc. In short Odin was the person who was the SOURCE of that Civilization of Northern Europe which developed the INDUSTRIAL ARTS used by the Industrialized World today.

His Gild System, in his Key-reich, is the source of the International Law, used to manage the International Technical Industry of the World today, that is, the FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM. So, the Arts which he taught, along with the Tools that he introduced for those Arts, are the SOURCE of the TECHNOLOGY that is the basis of International TECHNICAL Industry.

Odin’s Influence on the World

In Matthew 21:42 the Lord quotes from the 118th Psalm saying, “The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes.”

Today the “Law Merchant,” the rules of the Medieval Gild System, has become the Cornerstone upon which rests all international Law. Odin founded the Gild System. He was its LAW.

“How was he rejected?” We can see this in the reaction of the Romans to the Ancestors of the Spanish-speaking world, the Visigoths. Let us introduce that reaction by some facts given to us by the Visigoths’ nearest relatives, the Ostrogoths, after the Visigoths had departed Italy to, eventually, live in Spain and the Ostrogoths had taken up residence in Italy.

During the time that the Ostrogoths were ruling Italy their historian, Jordanes, wrote, “The Origin and History of the Goths.” He began his History, “We burst forth like a swarm of bees from a great island to the north of Europe called, ‘Scandza.’”

If we go to “Scandinavia,” sure enough, all of Southern Sweden is called, “Gothland,” and the main city of “Gothland” is called “Gothenburg.” However, these names are NOT what the people of the area have always called these places and themselves.

The people of Southern Sweden have always called themselves, the “Yoo-te” people; they call their land, “Yoote-land” and their city, “Yoote-borg.” In Old English these people were called “Jutes,” one of the three Peoples, the “Angles,” the “Saxons” and the “Jutes,” who first inhabited “England.”

Now “Jute” or “Yoote” is practically the same name as the word for “Jew,” in German, “Jude,” or in Spanish, “Judio.”

“Why would the people who conquered the Roman Empire have called themselves, ‘Jews’?”

The answer is found in the ancient “Prose Edda,” of the Icelanders. There we are told that back in His homeland, at the east end of the Mediterranean Sea, where He had hung upon the Tree of Life, Odin was the King of the “Jute” People. When Odin and the Twelve Asians came to Scandza the people of Southern Sweden asked Him if they could use the name of His People in Asialand of whom He was their King. He responded that they could.

Then, in the year 270 A.D. Odin’s disciples, from South Sweden, called the visi-GOTHS, expelled the Romans from Romania. With that expulsion there was NO MORE logic for any way to defend the Roman Empire against the Germanic Race. The Romans were expelled in 270; but total chaos reigned in the Roman Empire until 284, when Diocletian finally grabbed control over what was left.

From his “bunker” across the Dardenelles from Europe, Diocletian turned his attention upon the source of power of these people who had just neutralized everything Rome had been. “These people, the Visigoths, who had the ability to walk through the entirety of the European Roman Empire, and then take all of Spain away from Rome permanently, and a lot of the rest of Roman Europe temporarily, what was their strength?” asked Diocletian. He found out about the origin of the “Goth” name, about the people from whom they got the name, how that group used to live in Asia-land, in the Roman Empire during those days when “the Roman chiefs went wide around in the world, subduing to themselves all people.”

Diocletian asked about the “great King” of the “Jews,” who was the God of the Visigoths. Then he inquired of his Roman pontiffs if there was some way that that “great King” and “Son of God” could just sort of be “sucked up” into Aristotle’s Catholic idea of an amorphous blob. They had an idea. Diocletian’s successor, Constantine, would put that idea into operation.

We should now talk about the name that the King used.

A principal “minister” to Moses, as recounted in the Old Testament, was the patriarchal leader of the tribe of Ephraim. He was a young man named, “Osh-ea.” Moses gave him a new name that meant, “Jehovah saves,” “Jeho-shua,” in Hebrew. That man was Moses’ successor who led the Children of Israel into their Land. In English he is called by a variation of that name, “Jehoshua,” which is, “Joshua.” The ancient Greeks, although they knew of that folk hero and Leader of Israel, they couldn’t pronounce anything near to that Hebrew name. The closest they could come to “Jehoshua” was “Yeh-zoos.”

In the first chapter of Matthew, Joseph is told to call Mary’s son by that name of the ancient leader of Israel, for this son “shall save his people from their sins” (far more than what Joshua of old was able to help in “saving” them from, in setting his People free, from their Captivity). After Diocletian, the Roman Empire always used the Greek way of saying, “Jehoshua,” as the name for Mary’s son.
Till this day in the North of Europe the title of Mary’s son is “the man who (quickly) sets you FREE,” “Frelser” in the Scandinavian Languages, “Vapahtaja” in Finnish. (The Germans also have their own German word as their title for him, “Heiland,” rather than the word borrowed from the French, “Savior,” used by the English-speaking people.)

Whatever the Lord was called by the Aramaic-speaking people of Judea, in his day, some variation of Jehoshua or Oshea, the Scandinavian expression “Oath” is very close to the “Osh” part of Oshea, and brings up an interesting name identification. Remember that the Scandinavians said this name “Oathen,” the Anglo-Saxons “Woden,” and probably by far the greatest number of His people, living in Germany, “VOTAN.”

Quoting Paul Hermann’s book, “The Conquest of Man”:
“carefully considered this leaves no conclusion open than that the Light God Quetzalcoatl was a real person ...”
And,
“This great being was known as Quetzalcoatl in parts of Mexico, primarily in the Cholula area. HE WAS VOTAN in Chiapas.” [A number of LDS Archeologists feel that Chiapas, Mexico was the location of “Bountiful,” the location where the Lord appeared to the Nephites, as recorded in the Book of Mormon.]

Concluding this background information Elder Mark E. Petersen says:
“Jesus of Nazareth was this White God!”

The Everlasting “Gospel”

This Story of the visit of Votan bringing with him the Twelve Asians, of which we have been speaking, had a very specific name among the Germanic Peoples. The German word for a “story” was a “spiel” or “spell.” This story of “Votan” was always called, “The Everlasting God’s-story” or “The Everlasting God’s-spell” ― “The Everlasting Gospel.” In Iceland it is still “the Guth-spjal,” “the God-speaking.”
Catholicism could not stand to have this name for Votan’s, or Odin’s, story remaining around in Europe, so the expression, “Gospel,” is totally extirpated from the Continent of Europe. It has only been able to hold onto its existence as the name for the, “Story of the Son of God,” in the British Isles and on the Scandinavian Isles, Iceland.

It is interesting how that talk by Mark E. Petersen, describing Votan’s visit to South Mexico:
“... this personage taught them a divine religion, healed their sick, raised some of the dead, taught new and more productive agricultural methods, and established a government of equity and peace ... “

is almost verbatim the telling of the story of Votan’s visit to Scandinavia, as recorded in the Heimskringla, centuries before Columbus came to America.

“People ... called (Votan) their god ... “give ... another ... health ... Sometimes he even called the dead out of the earth ... (Mention is made of how Votan helped the people with their “cattle.” The special cattle breeds of the Northmen are famous: such as the “Jerseys” and “Guernseys,” of the Norman Islands, off of the Coast of Normandy.) Votan established the same law in his land that had been in force in Asaland.”

In addition to these, the additional mention that:
“With words, alone he could ... still the ocean in tempest”
is a most precious point of knowledge of the Heimskringla.

KMCopeland wrote:

barryjustin wrote:

KMCopeland wrote:Mormons have a terrible time accepting the idea that communism and the United Order spring from the same impulse: the impulse to be sure no one does without while his neighbors enjoy plenty. They can be counted on to freak out at the suggestion that there's anything good about communism or socialism even in their mere philosophical forms. You just can't talk to them about it without the words "evil" and "Satan's plan" turning up. It's as reliable as the sunrise. It has nothing to do anything actually objectionable about those two philosophies. You just can't discuss it. They go nuts. Well, most of them do.

The reluctance stems too, from a sort of morphing the politics of so many members has undergone over the years. Early saints were anti-slavery, and pretty progressive politically. Now your testimony is questioned if you're a even a Democrat, much less a liberal one.

It's a grave loss.

KMCopeland, you bring up some good points, but have watered down the argument about communism vs. the United Order. I happen to agree with you that it doesn't help anyone when people proclaim that communism is "evil" or "satan's plan" without much substance behind why they believe that (even though Hugh B. Brown, John Taylor, Bruce R., Neal Maxwell, David O. McKay and A HOST of others have said such). It is more profitable when people actually understand the program of the law of consecration and stewardship as it operates.

As for communism or socialism being evil, it is from a very solid doctrinal, scriptural, and prophetic standpoint (and an economic standpoint if we want to go that far). Joseph Smith said that "he did not believe the doctrine" of socialism (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 33) and made some pretty pointed remarks about the purpose and sacredness of private property (it is self-evident that private property is the antithesis of any communistic or any socialistic program):
“Concerning inheritances, you are bound by the law of the Lord to give a deed, secureing to him who receives inheritances, his inheritance for an everlasting inheritance, or in other words, to be his individual property, his private stewardship.” (Joseph Smith to Edward Partridge, June 25, 1833, Joseph Smith Letter Book 1829–35, 44–50, Church History Library)

"It has been reported by some vicious or deigning characters that the church of Latter Day Saints believe in having their pro[p]erty in common and also the leaders of sa[id] church controlls said propperty….This is a base fabrication,on the contrary no person’s feelings can be more repugnant to such a principle than mine[,] every person in this Church has a right to controll his own proppe[r]ty’” (Joseph Smith to Mr. Editor [of the Chester County Register and Examiner], 22 Jan. 1840.)

From the Institute manual link I posted in the original post: "The stewardship is private, not communal, property. The consecrator, or steward, was to be given a “writing,” or deed, that would “secure unto him his portion [stewardship]” (D&C 51:4). Although it has been acknowledged that all things belong to the Lord, a stewardship represents a sacred entrustment of a portion from God to the individual. The stewardship is given with a deed of ownership so that individuals, through their agency, are fully responsible and accountable for that which is entrusted to them."

The only thing that could possibly be considered communal in the Law of Consecration and Stewardship is the storehouse that is common property for the Church. This is not necessarily communistic though because people draw from it in order to expand there stewardship through free market processes, and after they take it out of the storehouse for their stewardship it is their private property. In short, the Law of Consecration and Stewardship can neither be properly called communistic or capitalistic. It is an animal to its own. But it does use free market processes in order to create more wealth and prosperity for individuals and for all those who partake out of the storehouse. In fact, corporations are compatible with the law of consecration which is self-evident by all the corporations that Joseph Smith sought to implement during his time in Kirtland, Missouri, and Nauvoo.

This one principle about how private property is so essential to the functionality of the Law of Consecration and Stewardship and how the abolition of private property is so fundamental to the philosophy of any and all communistic and socialistic ideas ought to show how different the two ideas are.

The private property point is a good one. When you say that the Law of Consecration & Stewardship is an animal to its own, I also agree with you, completely. But there are strong similarities, between the United Order and the principles behind both Communism & Socialism theory that simply cannot be ignored. And this does not prove that the United Order is bad. It simply supports my idea that both Communism & Socialism have, at their essence, strongly good, Christlike impulses, similar to the impulse at the heart of the Law of Consecration. Historically, the execution of them both (Communism/Socialism) has been badly flawed. But the fundamental principle they share is one they also share with the Law of Consecration: that it isn't fair for some to have almost everything, and others to have almost nothing. Jesus preached that principle constantly. It's the single most consistent thing he emphasized. He didn't care how it got that way. He charged us with addressing it. We should try hard not to let labels obscure that fact.


And I submit that the use of the words Communism & Socialism on this board is inaccurate. Incorrect. The two words are tossed around as synonyms for "evil" and "Satan's Plan" which is idiotic and misleading. I guess I'd just like to see the dialogue elevated at least to a higher level of accuracy, if nothing else.

Robert Sinclair wrote:Sad that this topic is even debated.

If Ephraim heads were as Melchizedek and Enoch Zion would have been redeemed even now.

But not one of the leaders of the house of Ephraim have been mighty and strong enough to redeem her as of yet.

And even United the Twelve and Seventy Shepherds cannot seem to bring Zion to be.

They even prepare war against her it is written teaching for doctrine that hand outs of property are evil and of Satan.

Woe, Woe, Woe unto this people who hearken unto these who prepare for war against God.

For why will ye die, to be cast into the fiery abyss?

Only awaken before it is everlastingly too late and the doors have been shut.

Now is the time to prove yourselves O House of Ephraim and not in a time far distant after your deaths.

Learn to hearken unto the voice of God and impart and give as God has commanded while you are yet alive and during this, the day of your probation.

You will be everlastingly glad you did. ♡ ♡

And yes for those of you who can help understand these things, weep and howl, and sound the alarm and blow the trumpet in Zion about the perversion of equity in his vineyard. ♡ ♡

George, the gospel of Jesus Christ from his own lips is to just give handouts, as well as to dilligently set examples.

Socialist Quixotic land scheme up close and personal

gclayjr wrote:Ezra,

Do you wonder how hard Robert Sinclair goes to deceive the world. He spends most of his time obfuscating just what it is he his advocating behind smiley faces and vague references to the book of Ezra. I posted a topic tying to discuss the evil of socialism that few people discuss. Everybody discusses the evil of forcibly taking stuff away, but they rarely discuss the evil of just giving stuff to people. For the first time, I read some clear simple statements from him defining what it is he believes. The following is one of them

George, the gospel of Jesus Christ from his own lips is to just give handouts, as well as to dilligently set examples.

And he wasn't kidding. Please read my topic

Socialist Quixotic land scheme up close and personal

in order to see it all in context.

Then decide whether you and he are really talking about the same thing when it comes to Christlike charity.

Regards,

George Clay