Obamacare LDS religious exemption

[Ezra]

Your right bush is a bad guy too. If you look at the clues. Pay attention to books recomended in confrence to read on this topic. You get pointed to the modern secret combanations. Who they are what they are doing.

You also find that since 1915. We have had one of the secret combanations members as either president or Vice President since that time other then 2 elections. Bush senior is a member. Clinton is a member. Bush junior is not but tricky dicky is. Obama not. His Vice President is. Regan is a member.

Knowing who they are turns a whole new light on what accually going on with government. Why we can't seem to get anything done other then the move towards more government control. Both democrats and republicans are both working toward the same goal. Socialism and a new world order.
And it's not going to change untell people wake up and stop voting for the front runners or the lesser of 2 evils as those front runners are hand picked to win one or the other dosent matter which as either one will be progressing the secret combanations goals.

[Ezra]

When Obama care was comming down the pipeline I was thinking of joining the Amish religion in name only.

I was looking into it. And I cannot see a problem with it. But found out I was already exempt.

But I do belive as the Amish do. I belive that insurance is evil.

So dose that belife make me Amish since I belive the same as they do???

For me it would be enough to file that way. I'm Amish in my belife of insurance.

[bbrown]

Asking the church for help (even nonfinancial help) in my ward, if you are not a pet reactivation project, will pour upon you the wrath of hell! Including turning you in to all levels of government for "perceived" violations that aren't there. Quote GA's, Prophets, even the hand book, all you want and it makes no difference. Been there done that. I won't EVER make that mistake again. BG is right don't look to the church to be independent of the system.

[buffalo_girl]

Came across this ancient pearl of wisdom while pondering scripture last night. Sad & frightening bit of irony, all around...

Ecclesiastes 10
20 ¶Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall carry thy voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter.

I guess we must 'stand in Holy Places' and 'look to the LORD'. Probably the correct thing to do, in any case. Just wish we had leadership like
that of Jehoshaphat.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/2-chr/20?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2Chronicles 20

5 ¶And Jehoshaphat stood in the congregation of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the Lord, before the new court,

6 And said, O Lord God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?

9 If, when evil cometh upon us, as the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name is in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help.

12 O our God, wilt thou not judge them? for we have no might against this great company that cometh against us; neither know we what to do: but our eyes are upon thee.

[/color]

[BroJones]

When Obama care was comming down the pipeline I was thinking of joining the Amish religion in name only.

I was looking into it. And I cannot see a problem with it. But found out I was already exempt.

But I do belive as the Amish do. I belive that insurance is evil.

So dose that belife make me Amish since I belive the same as they do???

For me it would be enough to file that way. I'm Amish in my belife of insurance.

Wait - how is it that you are "already exempt"?? how did you do that?

PS - funny also, I have many Amish friends here in Missouri. They are fine people and already living off-the-electrical-grid.

[KMCopeland]

The church has publicly posted a first presidency message to the entire church to when in need of help go to your family and then the church never to the government. This was in the 70s

It's 2015.

[KMCopeland]

Property taxes, inheritance taxes, capital gains taxes, mandatory insurances, licenses for every means of independent family industry, condemning land for Eminent Domain, denial of the right to live 'off the grid' or to legally circumvent a rigged system are imposed on the people of the US, NOT necessarily because we are willing to take a handout from the government.

Where could you live and be free of all that?

[Lizzy60]

Property taxes, inheritance taxes, capital gains taxes, mandatory insurances, licenses for every means of independent family industry, condemning land for Eminent Domain, denial of the right to live 'off the grid' or to legally circumvent a rigged system are imposed on the people of the US, NOT necessarily because we are willing to take a handout from the government.

Where could you live and be free of all that?

Are you implying that all those fees and taxes are tolerable and necessary, just because there may not be a place to live that doesn't have all that? The option of one evil over another is still evil. Loss of freedom, just because there may not exist a place with true freedom, is still loss of freedom.

[KMCopeland]

Why in our Church can't we work together and do what other Christians are doing to opt out of Obamacare?

Unlike most uninsured Americans, Hunsley will not have to buy health insurance or risk paying a fine under the dictates of the Affordable Care Act. He and other members of health care sharing ministries are among the minority to be exempted from the individual mandate that begins in 2014. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/rel ... 56083586/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; https://reclaimourrepublic.wordpress.co ... ternative/

We need an LDS Community alternative like this!

God Bless,
Darren

"Health Insurance Sharing Ministries?" People, do you not recognize just another marketing angle to sell insurance? Calling it "Christian," and leveraging your right-wing media induced suspicion of Obamacare in order to sell you something? Which you can easily buy anyplace else, likely for less?

Of course buying insurance from something called "Health Insurance Sharing Ministries" will exempt you from the penalty Obamacare imposes if you're not insured, because you've bought insurance therefore you're not subject to the fine.

Somebody kill me.

[KMCopeland]

Of course you're going to use it. No one in your family is ever going to need medical care?

Why then do the Amish NOT get Obamacare? -- and further, why are they "allowed" to be exempt from it? Can you answer KMC?

I don't think the Amish object to Obamacare. My understanding is they object to insurance -- and I don't know why. But the OP is looking for a religious exemption because she doesn't believe in government dependency. Which probably isn't going to work. Then there's the fact that Obamacare isn't about government dependency at all. It's a law that requires you to buy health insurance, much like the law that requires you to buy car insurance.

You are missing the point on Obamacare entirely. These laws are destroying our freedom slowly, but surely.

http://speeches.byu.edu/index.php?act=viewitem&id=85" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ezra Taft Benson:

Today the party now in power is advocating and has support, apparently in both major parties, for a comprehensive national health insurance program—a euphemism for socialized medicine.

Obamacare isn't remotely comprehensive national health insurance. It's a law that requires you to buy health insurance. From private companies. Like car insurance. Period.

[KMCopeland]

I checked anyone can sign up for this and not be apart of Obama care.

If you sign up for this (translation: buy health insurance from them) you ARE a part of Obamacare because you've complied with the law that Obamacare passed.

I am exempt from Obama care as my family income yearly is below 20,000$ thanks to having a few trusts and corps owned by trusts.

Then you qualify for Medicaid. Either way Ezra, you're not exempt from Obamacare. You just don't make enough money to buy private health insurance. So you qualify for Medicaid, which is a government program. And a very good one.

Big business do this why don't we???? No reason why we all can't get the same tax breaks as the big dogs.

Very good advice.

[KMCopeland]

Property taxes, inheritance taxes, capital gains taxes, mandatory insurances, licenses for every means of independent family industry, condemning land for Eminent Domain, denial of the right to live 'off the grid' or to legally circumvent a rigged system are imposed on the people of the US, NOT necessarily because we are willing to take a handout from the government.

Where could you live and be free of all that?

Are you implying that all those fees and taxes are tolerable and necessary, just because there may not be a place to live that doesn't have all that?

No. Just a plea for a little perspective.

The option of one evil over another is still evil. Loss of freedom, just because there may not exist a place with true freedom, is still loss of freedom.

Yes it is. And boy do you folks love that word "evil."

[Ezra]

When Obama care was comming down the pipeline I was thinking of joining the Amish religion in name only.

I was looking into it. And I cannot see a problem with it. But found out I was already exempt.

But I do belive as the Amish do. I belive that insurance is evil.

So dose that belife make me Amish since I belive the same as they do???

For me it would be enough to file that way. I'm Amish in my belife of insurance.

Wait - how is it that you are "already exempt"?? how did you do that?

PS - funny also, I have many Amish friends here in Missouri. They are fine people and already living off-the-electrical-grid.

If you make less then 10,000$ per year as an individual or less then 20,000$ as a family. Then you will not be fined for not having insurance. You are only fined for the money you make above that 10,000 for individual. 20,000 for family.

From healthcare.gov

The fee in 2015

If you don’t have coverage in 2015, you’ll pay the higher of these two amounts:

2% of your yearly household income. (Only the amount of income above the tax filing threshold, about $10,000 for an individual, is used to calculate the penalty.) The maximum penalty is the national average premium for a bronze plan.
$325 per person for the year ($162.50 per child under 18). The maximum penalty per family using this method is $975.
The fee for not having coverage in 2014

If you didn’t have coverage in 2014, you’ll pay the higher of these two amounts when you file your 2014 federal tax return:

1% of your yearly household income. (Only the amount of income above the tax filing threshold, about $10,000 for an individual, is used to calculate the penalty.) The maximum penalty is the national average premium for a bronze plan.

$95 per person for the year ($47.50 per child under 18). The maximum penalty per family using this method is $285.

The fee after 2015

The penalty increases every year. In 2016 it’s 2.5% of income or $695 per person. After that it's adjusted for inflation.



.................

Here is a flow chart which makes more sence.

http://kff.org/infographic/the-requirem ... -care-act/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ezra]

I checked anyone can sign up for this and not be apart of Obama care.

If you sign up for this (translation: buy health insurance from them) you ARE a part of Obamacare because you've complied with the law that Obamacare passed.

I am exempt from Obama care as my family income yearly is below 20,000$ thanks to having a few trusts and corps owned by trusts.

Then you qualify for Medicaid. Either way Ezra, you're not exempt from Obamacare. You just don't make enough money to buy private health insurance. So you qualify for Medicaid, which is a government program. And a very good one.

Big business do this why don't we???? No reason why we all can't get the same tax breaks as the big dogs.

Very good advice.

I may qualify but I will not apply. Nor will I particapate in any socializem. I will not accept money or sevices forcibly taken from others.

[KMCopeland]

I checked anyone can sign up for this and not be apart of Obama care.

If you sign up for this (translation: buy health insurance from them) you ARE a part of Obamacare because you've complied with the law that Obamacare passed.

I am exempt from Obama care as my family income yearly is below 20,000$ thanks to having a few trusts and corps owned by trusts.

Then you qualify for Medicaid. Either way Ezra, you're not exempt from Obamacare. You just don't make enough money to buy private health insurance. So you qualify for Medicaid, which is a government program. And a very good one.

Big business do this why don't we???? No reason why we all can't get the same tax breaks as the big dogs.

Very good advice.

I may qualify but I will not apply. Nor will I particapate in any socializem. I will not accept money or sevices forcibly taken from others.

If you drive on the roads you're accepting money/services forcibly taken from others. If you take advantage of tax laws (which you've already admitted you do) you're accepting money/services taken forcibly from others. If you have crop insurance, or use courthouse records to prove you own land, or have police protection, or fire protection, or get a tax refund, you're accepting money/services forcibly taken from others. By your definition.


And if you don't have any health insurance at all, you're breaking the law. I know you're okay with that of course. But don't give me this "I won't accept money/services supported by taxpayer money" thing. You may take less than many of us do -- but if you live in this country, you benefit from things that tax money supports. I wish you'd just admit that it's not always a bad thing.

[Ezra]

If you sign up for this (translation: buy health insurance from them) you ARE a part of Obamacare because you've complied with the law that Obamacare passed.

I am exempt from Obama care as my family income yearly is below 20,000$ thanks to having a few trusts and corps owned by trusts.

Then you qualify for Medicaid. Either way Ezra, you're not exempt from Obamacare. You just don't make enough money to buy private health insurance. So you qualify for Medicaid, which is a government program. And a very good one.

Big business do this why don't we???? No reason why we all can't get the same tax breaks as the big dogs.

Very good advice.

I may qualify but I will not apply. Nor will I particapate in any socializem. I will not accept money or sevices forcibly taken from others.

If you drive on the roads you're accepting money/services forcibly taken from others. If you take advantage of tax laws (which you've already admitted you do) you're accepting money/services taken forcibly from others. If you have crop insurance, or use courthouse records to prove you own land, or have police protection, or fire protection, or get a tax refund, you're accepting money/services forcibly taken from others. By your definition.


And if you don't have any health insurance at all, you're breaking the law. I know you're okay with that of course. But don't give me this "I won't accept money/services supported by taxpayer money" thing. You may take less than many of us do -- but if you live in this country, you benefit from things that tax money supports. I wish you'd just admit that it's not always a bad thing.[/quote]


You got some wacky ideas in that head of yours.

Roads are maintained by a flat fee in the sale of fuel per gallon. That is not force. You want to drive on the road you pay part of the maintance. You have a choice in if you drive on the road or not. That fee is not charged for off-road deisel and should be the same for gas. It's not but should.
If you produce your own fuel its honest to still pay part of the maintance on the road if you can afford it. Again by choice.

There is no law requiring you to buy. You only buy it if you need to. There is a law requiring you to buy insurance. Which is unconstitutional as there shall be no restriction on travel.

If you are under 20,000$ dollars annually you are not required to file a tax return or have any taxes taken out of your paycheck. You claim exempt on your w2.
How is that using a service? I'm not even filing for a tax retun because it isant required..

I protect myself. I have never called the police or fire department. Nor would it do any good since it's an hour drive for them to get to my house.I don't have insurance on anything other then liability for car insurance because I didn't know how to not have that legally tell reasontly. And with a little more study and research I will not have that either legally.

I'm your arch enimey as I don't accept any socializem. I am not part of your sinful ways. I have and continue to remove myself from the "world" as much as possible. I'm not interested in it. I want my lord and savior. And I want what he has promised by living this way. Don't you?

[gkearney]

Oh come now, you have never walked on a public sidewalk? Ever? you have never used a public toilet? Ever? Never step foot into a national, state or local park, forest or reserve? Ever? Never enjoyed the peace and security of the police, fire or public health services, not even indirectly by means of others playing their taxes even if you do not? Never placed an item in a public trash can? Never walked at night under a public street lamp? Never used a public library? Never registered a dead, birth, marriage or death? never buried a family member in a public cemetery? Never used public infrastructure or services of any kind, ever? I don't believe it.

[buffalo_girl]

Property taxes, inheritance taxes, capital gains taxes, mandatory insurances, licenses for every means of independent family industry, condemning land for Eminent Domain, denial of the right to live 'off the grid' or to legally circumvent a rigged system are imposed on the people of the US, NOT necessarily because we are willing to take a handout from the government.

Where could you live and be free of all that?

Where the LORD intends.

[buffalo_girl]

Matthew 23
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

1828 Noah Webster Dictionary definition

EXTORT', v.t. [L. extortus, from extorqueo, to wrest from; ex and torqueo, to twist.]

1. To draw from by force or compulsion; to wrest or wring from by physical force, by menace, duress, violence, authority, or by an illegal means. Conquerors extort contributions from the vanquished; tyrannical princes extort money from their subjects; officers often extort illegal fees; confessions of guilt are extorted by the rack. A promise extorted by duress is not binding.

2. To gain by violence or oppression.
EXTORT', v.i. To practice extortion.

Doctrine & Covenants 59
16 Verily I say, that inasmuch as ye do this, the fulness of the earth is yours, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which climbeth upon the trees and walketh upon the earth;

17 Yea, and the herb, and the good things which come of the earth, whether for food or for raiment, or for houses, or for barns, or for orchards, or for gardens, or for vineyards;

18 Yea, all things which come of the earth, in the season thereof, are made for the benefit and the use of man, both to please the eye and to gladden the heart;

19 Yea, for food and for raiment, for taste and for smell, to strengthen the body and to enliven the soul.

20 And it pleaseth God that he hath given all these things unto man; for unto this end were they made to be used, with judgment, not to excess, neither by extortion.

21 And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things, and obey not his commandments.

[Ezra]

Oh come now, you have never walked on a public sidewalk? Ever? you have never used a public toilet? Ever? Never step foot into a national, state or local park, forest or reserve? Ever? Never enjoyed the peace and security of the police, fire or public health services, not even indirectly by means of others playing their taxes even if you do not? Never placed an item in a public trash can? Never walked at night under a public street lamp? Never used a public library? Never registered a dead, birth, marriage or death? never buried a family member in a public cemetery? Never used public infrastructure or services of any kind, ever? I don't believe it.

I didn't say I never. I said I dont. As I have learned what the lord has asked all of us to do and what is fortold is comming. I have started my journey away from the curruption of the world. As our government becomes more and more currupt I distance myself as much as I legally can. I am living more and more like the Amish in preperations for the times that come befor the second comming. I try to live as I will have to to be prepaireed for living the United order.

When the day of judgement comes and we are asked if we worshiped the things of the world. I will be able to say no. When we are asked if we followed satans plan for government force, socializem? I will be able to say that I did untell I learned your ways and turned from that path.
I am so greatfull for repentance. And the love our savior showed by drinking that bitter cup.

I just don't want to add anymore pain. I don't want to even get close enough to the cliff to see how far the fall is.

You cannot fully live the gosple and not be rightously involved in protecting and maintaining the freedoms God set up in the constitution.
Many called and few are chosen because they care about the things of the world and aspire to the honors of men. And They use unrightious dominion.

Using forced taxation to provide for the needy welfare,social security and other so called public services. Is using unrightous dominion. It puts our fellow men into bondage. It takes away their individual freedom do it on there own.
Your tax dollars is being used for horrific acts of murder in the name of the war on terror. That God dose not endorce.

And I don't want to be part of it. So I don't support it by paying into it. Or using and service that comes from it. That so many justify as there reason to continue to support it. They say I payed In I should be able to take it out.

I don't. Is that bad? Is that evil of me? To work and pay for myself and family? To put my trust in the lord? To seek him for help and guidance and knowledge when I need it?

None of you know me personally other then one couple on here.
But I can tell you and testify to you that my life is blessed by the lord. Because I have done as he has asked me to do. Because I have learned of him and his ways and continue to do so. I love love love my simple life. It's soooooo peacefull. Things just flow.

Its

It's hard to explain in words. I would have never known that life could be this good. With so many heartfelt wonderful moments of happiness and peace. I'm living as I should and am being blessed to know it.

All I can do to show my appriciation by try to help others get what I got. Which as it comes to material things isant much. But spiritual things. I'm rich there. And thanks to many on here becoming richer as I learn and try to teach.

[BroJones]

Oh come now, you have never walked on a public sidewalk? Ever? you have never used a public toilet? Ever? Never step foot into a national, state or local park, forest or reserve? Ever? Never enjoyed the peace and security of the police, fire or public health services, not even indirectly by means of others playing their taxes even if you do not? Never placed an item in a public trash can? Never walked at night under a public street lamp? Never used a public library? Never registered a dead, birth, marriage or death? never buried a family member in a public cemetery? Never used public infrastructure or services of any kind, ever? I don't believe it.

I didn't say I never. I said I dont. As I have learned what the lord has asked all of us to do and what is fortold is comming. I have started my journey away from the curruption of the world. As our government becomes more and more currupt I distance myself as much as I legally can. I am living more and more like the Amish in preperations for the times that come befor the second comming. I try to live as I will have to to be prepaireed for living the United order.

When the day of judgement comes and we are asked if we worshiped the things of the world. I will be able to say no. When we are asked if we followed satans plan for government force, socializem? I will be able to say that I did untell I learned your ways and turned from that path.
I am so greatfull for repentance. And the love our savior showed by drinking that bitter cup.

I just don't want to add anymore pain. I don't want to even get close enough to the cliff to see how far the fall is.

You cannot fully live the gosple and not be rightously involved in protecting and maintaining the freedoms God set up in the constitution.
Many called and few are chosen because they care about the things of the world and aspire to the honors of men. And They use unrightious dominion.

Using forced taxation to provide for the needy welfare,social security and other so called public services. Is using unrightous dominion. It puts our fellow men into bondage. It takes away their individual freedom do it on there own.
Your tax dollars is being used for horrific acts of murder in the name of the war on terror. That God dose not endorce.

And I don't want to be part of it. So I don't support it by paying into it. Or using and service that comes from it. That so many justify as there reason to continue to support it. They say I payed In I should be able to take it out.

I don't. Is that bad? Is that evil of me? To work and pay for myself and family? To put my trust in the lord? To seek him for help and guidance and knowledge when I need it?

None of you know me personally other then one couple on here.
But I can tell you and testify to you that my life is blessed by the lord. Because I have done as he has asked me to do. Because I have learned of him and his ways and continue to do so. I love love love my simple life. It's soooooo peacefull. Things just flow.

Its

It's hard to explain in words. I would have never known that life could be this good. With so many heartfelt wonderful moments of happiness and peace. I'm living as I should and am being blessed to know it.

All I can do to show my appriciation by try to help others get what I got. Which as it comes to material things isant much. But spiritual things. I'm rich there. And thanks to many on here becoming richer as I learn and try to teach.

Well said, Ezra -- I respect your choice of voluntary simplicity. My Amish friends choose this path also

For most others, this will come as a very rude awakening, and not voluntary.

[KMCopeland]

I am exempt from Obama care as my family income yearly is below 20,000$ thanks to having a few trusts and corps owned by trusts.

Then you qualify for Medicaid. Either way Ezra, you're not exempt from Obamacare. You just don't make enough money to buy private health insurance. So you qualify for Medicaid, which is a government program. And a very good one.

I may qualify but I will not apply. Nor will I particapate in any socializem. I will not accept money or sevices forcibly taken from others.

If you drive on the roads you're accepting money/services forcibly taken from others. If you take advantage of tax laws (which you've already admitted you do) you're accepting money/services taken forcibly from others. If you have crop insurance, or use courthouse records to prove you own land, or have police protection, or fire protection, or get a tax refund, you're accepting money/services forcibly taken from others. By your definition.


And if you don't have any health insurance at all, you're breaking the law. I know you're okay with that of course. But don't give me this "I won't accept money/services supported by taxpayer money" thing. You may take less than many of us do -- but if you live in this country, you benefit from things that tax money supports. I wish you'd just admit that it's not always a bad thing.

Roads are maintained by a flat fee in the sale of fuel per gallon. That is not force. You want to drive on the road you pay part of the maintance.

Oh, it's a flat fee is it? There are taxes on fuel Ezra. You calling it a flat fee doesn't change that. And plenty of the maintenace cost for roads, bridges etc. comes from taxes that are additional to the fuel tax.

You have a choice in if you drive on the road or not.

No, you really don't. But you're going to argue that you do until the cows come home, right?

If you are under 20,000$ dollars annually you are not required to file a tax return or have any taxes taken out of your paycheck. You claim exempt on your w2.

How is that using a service? I'm not even filing for a tax retun because it isant required.

You're counting on the laws to guarantee that you don't have to file a tax return. When you count on the laws, the entire apparatus of which is paid for out of tax money, you're claiming something guaranteed you by the taxes that support the guarantee. When you walk around, with a clear conscience and no fear of being arrested for not filing that return, you benefit from the government structure that guarantees that. There's no getting around this. I wish you'd just say it's a good thing, that other taxpayers support your freedom not to pay taxes. Because they absolutely do.

I protect myself. I have never called the police or fire department. Nor would it do any good since it's an hour drive for them to get to my house.I don't have insurance on anything other then liability for car insurance because I didn't know how to not have that legally tell reasontly. And with a little more study and research I will not have that either legally.

If someone finds their way to your home, and robs you or worse, wouldn't you like to be able to hold the perpetrators accountable? You'll need the police and the courts for that. Which are maintained with tax dollars.

I'm your arch enimey as I don't accept any socializem. I am not part of your sinful ways. I have and continue to remove myself from the "world" as much as possible. I'm not interested in it. I want my lord and savior.

Your lord and savior isn't real thrilled with the way you judge everybody who disagrees with you. He's been real clear about that.

And I want what he has promised by living this way.

More judgement out of you, that anyone who hasn't dropped out of society to live like a hermit is out of favor with the Savior. And He hasn't promised you anything for dropping out of society and being a scofflaw. Whatsoever.

[buffalo_girl]

More judgement out of you, that anyone who hasn't dropped out of society to live like a hermit is out of favor with the Savior. And He hasn't promised you anything for dropping out of society and being a scofflaw. Whatsoever.

Hmmm...talk about "the pot calling the kettle black".

~ a situation in which one person criticizes another for a fault they have themselves ~

The first person who is recorded as using the phrase in English was William Penn, the founder of Pennsylvania, in his Some fruits of solitude, 1693:
"For a Covetous Man to inveigh against Prodigality... is for the Pot to call the Kettle black."

Shakespeare had previously expressed a similar notion in a line in Troilus and Cressida, 1606:
"The raven chides blackness."

[Ezra]

How can you twist that understanding from me wanting to live simply.
Kmc
When you live worldly you have bills. When you desire big house fancy cars and all the toys the world has to offer you have bills. What you own start owning you as you have to maintain them.

I watched my parents make payments for a house for 27 years and when they sold it they owed the same amount as when they bought it. Took out mortgages for up keep.
I had already had a good taste of living simply with the job I had. Working at a wilderness youth program. I knew how happy you could be with just what you could carry and a tarp to sleep under. So I decided that life of being in debt to buy a house and cars and toys wasn't for me.

So I saved and payed cash for my first second and now 3rd house.
I was out of debt for 4 years befor my dad finnally payed off his place. And I know I modavated him to do that a little faster then he would have. I am retired. I'm 36.
And I have never had a job that payed more then 15 an hour.

I don't look down on people who want things. I want things. There are lots of things I would love to own. To me though those things in no way out weigh the peace and the stress free life of being out of debt provides.

So I put them out of my mind. And enjoy what I have.

One of those is time to think. And what I have noticed is People who have a bunch of stuff. Don't think. Or read. Their lives are too full. To many forms of entertainment. Tv phones games. Sports teams to watch. And then they have to work their butts off to pay for all those "comforts" but they aren't happy. They work hard then entertain themselfs with their stuff to relaxe from the stresses of the days of work.
Worship is putting your thoughts and energy into something.

They worship the things of the world. And they leave very little time for worship of anything eles. 3 hours of church on Sunday's where they spend the time in the halls or befor class talking and thinking about their sports teams and there new trucks or toys instead of on the lord and his knowledge.

That's not for me. Too complicated. I like my simple life. I like to be able to walk out my door in the morning sit and watch the birds on the lake. Listen to the wind. Watch the waves. Turn off the thoughts of the "world" and open myself up to the spirit and sit and learn

If that's dosent sound nice to you that's fine. I'm not trying to force it on you.

You are trying to force the world on me. With your taxation and health care and welfare and programs.

I don't want them. I don't need them. And I don't care if you and 99% of others think I do.

I have a right a God given right for the persuit of happiness. Paying for all the programs that I will not use dosent make me happy. So I on purpose make less then the taxable amount.

I drive as little as possible. I grow all my own food. And soon will produce my own power.

I'm sorry if that upsets you. But it makes me happy and it also make it to where I'm obeying our lord. Be in the world not of it.

Or Did I miss the memo that says worldliness is next to godliness?

[JohnnyL]

Property taxes, inheritance taxes, capital gains taxes, mandatory insurances, licenses for every means of independent family industry, condemning land for Eminent Domain, denial of the right to live 'off the grid' or to legally circumvent a rigged system are imposed on the people of the US, NOT necessarily because we are willing to take a handout from the government.

Where could you live and be free of all that?

Taiwan, pretty much. I imagine there are others, too.