LDS Freedom Forum

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I thought it was all Malarkey anyway.

Because 1 boy lied about his experience everyone is a liar now, all muslims are terrorists and all mormons are polygamists, no one ever has seen Heaven and live to tell the tale beccause that is what it is a fairy tale, wow I wasted my time going to church and reading about fairy tales in the bible, I am not going to believe the bible now Alex said it was the only way and he just lied about seeing heaven, things that make you go hmmmmmmmm :-\

It's sad that the boy's father wrote and published the book (adding the boy's name as an author) and that it apparently took years for the publisher to pay attention to the boy and his mother's attempts to convince them that the book was not true.

shestalou wrote:Because 1 boy lied about his experience everyone is a liar now, all muslims are terrorists and all mormons are polygamists, no one ever has seen Heaven and live to tell the tale beccause that is what it is a fairy tale, wow I wasted my time going to church and reading about fairy tales in the bible, I am not going to believe the bible now Alex said it was the only way and he just lied about seeing heaven, things that make you go hmmmmmmmm :-\

:))

clarkkent14 wrote:I thought it was all Malarkey anyway.

shestalou wrote:Because 1 boy lied about his experience everyone is a liar now, all muslims are terrorists and all mormons are polygamists, no one ever has seen Heaven and live to tell the tale beccause that is what it is a fairy tale, wow I wasted my time going to church and reading about fairy tales in the bible, I am not going to believe the bible now Alex said it was the only way and he just lied about seeing heaven, things that make you go hmmmmmmmm :-\

The last name of the author is MALARKEY. It's called a joke.

clarkkent14 wrote:

clarkkent14 wrote:I thought it was all Malarkey anyway.

shestalou wrote:Because 1 boy lied about his experience everyone is a liar now, all muslims are terrorists and all mormons are polygamists, no one ever has seen Heaven and live to tell the tale beccause that is what it is a fairy tale, wow I wasted my time going to church and reading about fairy tales in the bible, I am not going to believe the bible now Alex said it was the only way and he just lied about seeing heaven, things that make you go hmmmmmmmm :-\

The last name of the author is MALARKEY. It's called a joke.

Actually I was referring to Edgoble and the title of this thread, not your little joke clarkken

shestalou wrote:

clarkkent14 wrote:

clarkkent14 wrote:I thought it was all Malarkey anyway.

shestalou wrote:Because 1 boy lied about his experience everyone is a liar now, all muslims are terrorists and all mormons are polygamists, no one ever has seen Heaven and live to tell the tale beccause that is what it is a fairy tale, wow I wasted my time going to church and reading about fairy tales in the bible, I am not going to believe the bible now Alex said it was the only way and he just lied about seeing heaven, things that make you go hmmmmmmmm :-\

The last name of the author is MALARKEY. It's called a joke.

Actually I was referring to Edgoble and the title of this thread, not your little joke clarkken

Ok good. I was losing hope that people we're losing their sense of humor. I couldn't believe the last was malarkey. I thought it was a piece from the onion.

Is this the same story line that the movie "heaven is for real" based on?

http://www.heavenlive.org/homepage-post ... LnLSy5QFt5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Colton Burpo is the boy from Heaven is for Real, just because Alex Malarkey lied it does not mean everyone has now, read the thread here of peoples experiences with Christ and Angels some of these stories on our own forum are so inspiring. :ymhug:

I'm trying to figure out why Ed Grapple has a problem with LDS NDEs, and what connection this Baptist boy's deceitful book has to do with truthful accounts by LDS NDEs.

Can anyone help us, please ?

njb

I think what he is saying is to be careful. Just because someone says they have had one doesn't make it so.

Nan wrote:I think what he is saying is to be careful. Just because someone says they have had one doesn't make it so.

Soooo true. There are those among us that are so gullible. Whenever the "goose bump gang" speaks out pops the ears. Seems to me that if someone claims to have seen Christ, a second witness would be able to describe him identically as the first. That's not to say that some people haven't died and seen heavenly landscaping or the like, however.
Doesn't the witness of seeing Christ, the Second Comforter, entail seeing the prints from the nails in his hands and feet, whether through death, NDE or C&E?

Doctrine and Covenants 6:37
37 Behold the wounds which pierced my side, and also the prints of the nails in my hands and feet; be faithful, keep my commandments, and ye shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. Amen.

3 Nephi 11:14
14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

3 Nephi 11:15
15 And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.

Nan wrote:I think what he is saying is to be careful. Just because someone says they have had one doesn't make it so.

Isn't that pretty much old news?

34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

freedomforall wrote:
Doesn't the witness of seeing Christ, the Second Comforter, entail seeing the prints from the nails in his hands and feet, whether through death, NDE or C&E?

No.

njb

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:

freedomforall wrote:
Doesn't the witness of seeing Christ, the Second Comforter, entail seeing the prints from the nails in his hands and feet, whether through death, NDE or C&E?

No.

njb

Then how can anyone claim to have seen Christ? Even Satan can appear as an angel of light. So when you say, "no" what backs up this claim?

freedumfull,

That's easy.

They must all be deceived or liars.

Seriously, an NDE is different from Christ manifesting himself in the flesh, where he shows you greater things here so you can speak out after having a sure witness vs your spirit body leaving this sphere and meeting Him in a different realm.
One purpose of Him descending here into a Telestial sphere is show he's been resurrected.

Meeting Christ in the afterlife, from all my research it isn't as prominent an occurrence, He showing his wounds-but he can and does happen there as well, but not 100% of the time.

Lastly as far as I know no Angel of Light as never showed Crucifixion markings: and I've read a ton of material.

njb

The Bible is the only source of truth. Anything written by man cannot be infallible

And who does he think wrote the Bible?

I take other people's experiences with a lot of salt. They can be evidences, but frankly, I'm only concerned with my own testimony.

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:I've read a ton of material

According to those scriptures above, notjimmyboyle3/5, Christ wants us to know exactly who He is, so there is no mistake. Sounds like scriptures trump assumptions, guesses and a ton of materials, does it not?

Another case in point. When the brother of Jared went up to have the Lord light up some stones for a source of light, he saw the finger of the Lord in the process. And because of this, the Lord revealed Himself in full so the brother of Jarod could see that it was He, the Savior of the world, even before ever having been born into mortality. Nevertheless, the Lord made no mistake in having tboJ know who he was talking to. No guesses, no assumptions and no deception.

Another great example is found in Luke 24 when Christ, after his resurrection, walked with and ate with some folks and then revealed to them who he actually was, then disappeared from their sight.

I contend that if two or more people saw Jesus, their description of him would be identical, facial features, height, demeanor and everything else would be the same.
If two people claiming to have seen him say:
1 he had shoulder length red hair
2 well I saw shorter brown hair
1 I say blue eyes like pools of clear water
2 I saw brown yes
1 I heard a soft, loving voice
2 well I heard a raspy voice
and so on.

Just because someone claims to have seen the Lord does that make it so, unless another person sees the very exact facial features, etc.?

freedomforall wrote:

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:I've read a ton of material

And this is your proof? Sounds mighty vague, does it not. How does a ton of material equate to scriptures, notjimmyboyle3/5?

According to those scriptures above, Christ wants us to know exactly who He is, so there is no mistake. Sounds like scriptures trump assumptions, guesses and a ton of materials, does it not?

Another case in point. When the brother of Jared went up to have the Lord light up some stones for a source of light, he saw the finger of the Lord in the process. And because of this, the Lord revealed Himself in full so the brother of Jarod could see that it was He, the Savior of the world, even before ever having been born into mortality. Nevertheless, the Lord made no mistake in having tboJ know who he was talking to. No guesses, no assumptions and no fooling.

The question is not whether God reveals himself and uses the marks as an identifying attribute....I think what njb was responding to was seeing the marks and knowing it is Christ you are speaking to doesn't automatically mean one has received the Second Comforter. One can see the marks, and not have the promise of eternal life nor the Second Comforter.

Dannyk wrote:

freedomforall wrote:

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:I've read a ton of material

And this is your proof? Sounds mighty vague, does it not. How does a ton of material equate to scriptures, notjimmyboyle3/5?

According to those scriptures above, Christ wants us to know exactly who He is, so there is no mistake. Sounds like scriptures trump assumptions, guesses and a ton of materials, does it not?

Another case in point. When the brother of Jared went up to have the Lord light up some stones for a source of light, he saw the finger of the Lord in the process. And because of this, the Lord revealed Himself in full so the brother of Jarod could see that it was He, the Savior of the world, even before ever having been born into mortality. Nevertheless, the Lord made no mistake in having tboJ know who he was talking to. No guesses, no assumptions and no fooling.

The question is not whether God reveals himself and uses the marks as an identifying attribute....I think what njb was responding to was seeing the marks and knowing it is Christ you are speaking to doesn't automatically mean one has received the Second Comforter. One can see the marks, and not have the promise of eternal life nor the Second Comforter.

But you do know that the Second Comforter is Jesus Christ, Himself, right?
Just as much as the Holy Spirit of Promise is the Holy Ghost?

Yawn

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:Yawn

The Second Comforter

The Prophet Joseph Smith teaching.
Joseph Smith received the answer to this question through revelation. “Now what is the other comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter [the promise of eternal life], he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face. … “(HC 3:381.) (Quoted in Ivan J. Barrett, “‘He Lives! For We Saw Him’,” Ensign, Aug 1975, 17)

We can tell this comforter is not also the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost was not given to them until the Savior died, but Jesus told the disciples they already knew this comforter because he dwelt with them. It is Jesus Himself who will serve as the second comforter. The Holy Ghost guides us through this life, but after our death, we can have the privilege of living in Jesus’ presence and being taught by Him directly. When we need comfort then, we can go directly to the Savior.

Acts 2:33
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Holy Spirit of Promise

The Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit of Promise (Acts 2:33). He confirms as acceptable to God the righteous acts, ordinances, and covenants of men. The Holy Spirit of Promise witnesses to the Father that the saving ordinances have been performed properly and that the covenants associated with them have been kept.

They who are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise receive all that the Father has:D&C 76:51–60; ( Eph. 1:13–14; )
All covenants and performances must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise to have force after this life:D&C 132:7, 18–19, 26

Okay, now go back to sleep.

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:I'm trying to figure out why Ed Grapple has a problem with LDS NDEs, and what connection this Baptist boy's deceitful book has to do with truthful accounts by LDS NDEs.

Can anyone help us, please ?

njb

NJB, from a number of posts, it seems that you too, like a number of people here, have chosen to make yourself my enemy.
I would ask you to leave my name alone and not morph it into your sad attempt to be disrespectful to it again. You don't need to disrespect my name just because I want to try to persuade people of the value of critical thinking and skepticism.

It is obvious that there are a lot of gullible people out there, that believe in the claims of con-artists and liars that are NDE claimants and false prophets, and they ought to be skeptical of them all, and it is quite obvious that this is what I was getting at. Their first instinct should be skepticism toward their claims, not belief. Just because there are a number of published authors making these claims doesn't make them any different than sectarian Christian NDE claimants that are also published con-artists.

shestalou wrote:Because 1 boy lied about his experience everyone is a liar now, all muslims are terrorists and all mormons are polygamists, no one ever has seen Heaven and live to tell the tale beccause that is what it is a fairy tale, wow I wasted my time going to church and reading about fairy tales in the bible, I am not going to believe the bible now Alex said it was the only way and he just lied about seeing heaven, things that make you go hmmmmmmmm :-\

No. But a large percentage of published NDE-claimants and prophet-claimants that are LDS are likely to be making false claims that are either far more elaborate, exaggerated and inflated than the original truth of their true experiences, or they are entirely fabrications. It is not a coincidence that a lot of their claims coincide with a lot of pet theories that a number of people have.