LDS Freedom Forum

This is proof that Glenn is a very spiritual man. Check out how warm and spiritual his family prayers must be:

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2014/03/26/ ... 395854999/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Fiannan wrote:This is proof that Glenn is a very spiritual man. Check out how warm and spiritual his family prayers must be:

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2014/03/26/ ... 395854999/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Well, at least he is praying for his enemies.

When I found out that Glenn Beck was a member of the Church I thought "Great. Another nutcase Mormon I have to apologize for." I guess I don't much care if he is becoming disaffected with the Church. I'd like to see the church becoming disaffected with him.

Nan wrote:What is faith in god? It is trusting him, believing him and having confidence in him.

Faith in God is fidelity to Him.
fi·del·i·ty
fəˈdelədē/
noun
faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support.
"he sought only the strictest fidelity to justice"
synonyms: loyalty, allegiance, obedience; More
antonyms: disloyalty
sexual faithfulness to a spouse or partner.
synonyms: faithfulness, loyalty, constancy; More
the degree of exactness with which something is copied or reproduced.
"the 1949 recording provides reasonable fidelity"
synonyms: accuracy, exactness, precision, preciseness, correctness;

Steve Clark wrote:

Fiannan wrote:This is proof that Glenn is a very spiritual man. Check out how warm and spiritual his family prayers must be:

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2014/03/26/ ... 395854999/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Well, at least he is praying for his enemies.

Similarly, here is what can be asked concerning corrupt leaders in DC.

Psalms 109:8
8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

Thomas wrote:It seems there are really only two churches where the members put there faith in men and Beck happens to be a member of one of them.

Thomas can you explain what 'faith in men' means in terms of the prophet?

The idea of not putting trust in a man is strawman situation. It seems to me that when Christ walked the earth a lot, I mean a lot of men and women didn't put trust in Him either. In fact they killed Him.
The idea behind not putting trust in the arm of flesh is to make sure that the person talking is teaching true doctrine and has patterned his life after the Savior. A good tree can produce good fruit, in this case.
On the other hand, if a person is teaching false doctrine, his own precepts and has patterned his life after his own lusts and behaviors, a wolf in sheep's clothing, his fruits cannot be good, and cannot be trusted.
There is nothing wrong with placing some trust in a man doing his utmost to live like Christ. Our church is made up of many imperfect people, yet God uses them for his purposes. If we can't trust them then we are left on our own.
Prophets of old were cast out, stoned and treated with disdain, but that is not proof that they were not to be trusted.
God says we must follow our prophet for it is the prophet that God uses as an instrument to lead people to Christ. Those guilty of speaking against him are no better than the people who cast out prophets back then.

Mosiah 23:14
14 And also trust no one to be your teacher nor your minister, except he be a man of God, walking in his ways and keeping his commandments.

Jer. 17:5
5 ¶Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

This is a great example of what it means to trust in the arm of flesh:

Morm. 3:9
9 And now, because of this great thing which my people, the Nephites, had done, they began to boast in their own strength, and began to swear before the heavens that they would avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren who had been slain by their enemies.

And yet again:

Morm 4:8
8 And it came to pass that they were repulsed and driven back by the Nephites. And when the Nephites saw that they had driven the Lamanites they did again boast of their own strength; and they went forth in their own might, and took possession again of the city Desolation.

As a matter of fact, we are not to put trust in our own thinking for that matter:

Pro 3:5,6
5 ¶Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Trusting in the arm of flesh is NOT throwing aside Christ like counsel and direction from others. It does mean to cast aside counsel from wolves in sheep's clothing.

This is where this scripture comes in handy:

2 Nephi 4:35
35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen.

And many times our answers come through other people. Aren't they God's children as well?

freedomforall wrote:The idea of not putting trust in a man is strawman situation.

yeah I feel the whole not trusting or faith in man or the prophet argument that some here feel misrepresents what a prophet is and his purpose. That's why I asked Thomas to explain what 'faith in men' means in terms of the prophet. I'm waiting for an answer and I hope he does because I think there is really big misunderstanding here.

mhewett wrote:

freedomforall wrote:The idea of not putting trust in a man is strawman situation.

yeah I feel the whole not trusting or faith in man or the prophet argument that some here feel misrepresents what a prophet is and his purpose. That's why I asked Thomas to explain what 'faith in men' means in terms of the prophet. I'm waiting for an answer and I hope he does because I think there is really big misunderstanding here.

It may surprise you to know that there are a lot of people on this forum who state one way or another that following a prophet is folly and trusting in the arm of flesh. I simply shake my head at this notion.
I hope Thomas will answer you as well.

mhewett wrote:

freedomforall wrote:The idea of not putting trust in a man is strawman situation.

yeah I feel the whole not trusting or faith in man or the prophet argument that some here feel misrepresents what a prophet is and his purpose. That's why I asked Thomas to explain what 'faith in men' means in terms of the prophet. I'm waiting for an answer and I hope he does because I think there is really big misunderstanding here.

Give us some examples of the misrepresentations.

mhewett wrote:

Thomas wrote:It seems there are really only two churches where the members put there faith in men and Beck happens to be a member of one of them.

Thomas can you explain what 'faith in men' means in terms of the prophet?

I am pretty sure you know what I mean. How many other churches have members that bear testimony of their leaders?

Thomas wrote:

mhewett wrote:

Thomas wrote:It seems there are really only two churches where the members put there faith in men and Beck happens to be a member of one of them.

Thomas can you explain what 'faith in men' means in terms of the prophet?

I am pretty sure you know what I mean. How many other churches have members that bear testimony of their leaders?

Well I may think I know what you mean but I have been wrong about what people think before. I would appreciate it if you could tell me in your words the answer to the question I asked you, then I can respond correctly and also I can give you examples Bee Prepared.

I've learned a somewhat different definition of faith, basically that faith is the actions taken based on a spiritual prompting/message/experience. In other words, faith isn't just a synonym for belief, but rather a distinct thing (at least spiritually speaking) because it is sparked by a prior spiritual event. So, if I'm prompted to talk to someone or to say something during a lesson and I act on that prompting (not knowing what the outcome might be), I am exercising my faith. If I keep the word of wisdom because I believe it to be true, but not because of any specific spiritual experience, then I am exercising my belief.

I hope brother Beck is able to find peace in his daily walk.

a_member wrote:I've learned a somewhat different definition of faith, basically that faith is the actions taken based on a spiritual prompting/message/experience. In other words, faith isn't just a synonym for belief, but rather a distinct thing (at least spiritually speaking) because it is sparked by a prior spiritual event. So, if I'm prompted to talk to someone or to say something during a lesson and I act on that prompting (not knowing what the outcome might be), I am exercising my faith. If I keep the word of wisdom because I believe it to be true, but not because of any specific spiritual experience, then I am exercising my belief.

I hope brother Beck is able to find peace in his daily walk.

intersting, so, a_member san, can you share some you might have had about that those sparking/promptings about church leaders, if any, that made you in the mode of faith by action?? what are they, please??

sushi_ was impressed about progressivism of republican/democrat by glenn san....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdOrPOAEsyM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nan wrote:I always find it funny when people claim they don't put their faith in man. They only put their faith in God. Everyone puts some faith in men. That is why we feel disappointment with people sometimes. We feel like they let us down. This means we had some kind of faith in how someone would behave. This is what he is talking about. Every single person on this earth does this. This is why people get upset with leaders of the church or their spouse or their children or their parents. So if you claim you never put your faith in man you are not being honest with yourself or others. The goal is to grow to the point that when others disappoint us it doesn't hurt our faith in God and our relationship with him.

Of course people do, but when people talk or act out of the need for cognitive dissonance, or are really stuck up to something to prove a point, then sometimes it's easy to say that one doesn't put one's faith in man. I personally agree with what you said. I feel that I could best be described as if someone demands me to have faith, and that demanded faith conflicts with faith in God, then faith in God comes first.