Ezekiel Conference....

[notjamesbond003.5]

stay off the caffiene mate.



njb

[Bircher]

I could not agree with you more. This is EXACTLY correct.

Now, with that in mind, can you explain why you are asking US to disprove your (the govt official view) as to how a plane flew 1 mile at 500mph approximately 8 metres above the ground left no marks on the lawn and then disintegrated into a 2 metre hole in the pentagon....and there is no video footage of it to be found nor wreckage. Cuts both ways mate.

Slightly off topic, but I'll bite.

I do not take the "official" view, so right off the bat you mis-characterize me and my position.

I am asking BOTH sides to prove their case. Until a case is proven, the whole thing is theory and in unsolved mystery mode. I have NEVER said prove the government story wrong, I have only said prove your story right.

[naturelovertoo]

I can not believe what I am hearing from some of the LDS on this site! Since when were those who have no stewardship over the Church stand on their own and make such prophetic utterances as if the Church were in need of their warning voice!
Our Heavenly Father does not work that way. He never has and never will deviate from the Priesthood. End of Story.
If someone receives sacred revelation for their family, they
1. Will be worthy to receive revelation from God
2. Understand Stewarship
3. Keep the revelation sacred and not cast it out to those not under their stewardship, because it is not meant for them!
Come on, let's not give this a second thought. It is basic Gospel Principles. Not complicated to figure out at all.

[truthseeds]

I could not agree with you more. This is EXACTLY correct.

Now, with that in mind, can you explain why you are asking US to disprove your (the govt official view) as to how a plane flew 1 mile at 500mph approximately 8 metres above the ground left no marks on the lawn and then disintegrated into a 2 metre hole in the pentagon....and there is no video footage of it to be found nor wreckage. Cuts both ways mate.

Slightly off topic, but I'll bite.

I do not take the "official" view, so right off the bat you mis-characterize me and my position.

I am asking BOTH sides to prove their case. Until a case is proven, the whole thing is theory and in unsolved mystery mode. I have NEVER said prove the government story wrong, I have only said prove your story right.

Hey Bircher...I believe he was pointing that at notjamesbond on the govt. story bit...and actually agreed with you about logic and responsibility of proving something right...

[truthseeds]

ah, stewardship is a wonderful thing.

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6846

read this truthseeds.

ah, that is most useful...THANK YOU threepercentite. I encourage everyone to read this from DALLIN H. OAKS, as it is helpful in clearing up this issue.

A couple passages:

. Prophecy is another purpose or function of revelation. Speaking under the influence of the Holy Ghost and within the limits of his or her stewardship, a person may be inspired to predict what will come to pass in the future. This is the office of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, who prophesies for the Church, as Joseph Smith prophesied the Civil War (D&C 87) and foretold that the Saints would become a mighty people in the Rocky Mountains. Prophecy is part of the calling of a patriarch. Each of us is privileged to receive prophetic revelation illuminating future events in our lives, like a Church calling we are to receive. To cite another example, after our fifth child was born, my wife and I did not have any more children. After more than ten years, we concluded that our family would not be any larger, which grieved us. Then one day, while my wife was in the temple, the Spirit whispered to her that she would have another child. That prophetic revelation was fulfilled a year and a half later with the birth of our sixth child, for whom we had waited thirteen years.

First, we should understand what can be called the principle of "stewardship in revelation." Our Heavenly Father's house is a house of order, where his servants are commanded to "act in the office in which [they are] appointed" (D&C 107:99). This principle applies to revelation. Only the president of the Church receives revelation to guide the entire Church. Only the stake president receives revelation for the special guidance of the stake. The person who receives revelation for the ward is the bishop. For a family, it is the priesthood leadership of the family. Leaders receive revelation for their own stewardships. Individuals can receive revelation to guide their own lives. But when one person purports to receive revelation for another person outside his or her own stewardship--such as a Church member who claims to have revelation to guide the entire Church or a person who claims to have a revelation to guide another person over whom he or she has no presiding authority according to the order of the Church--you can be sure that such revelations are not from the Lord. "There are counterfeit signals" (Boyd K. Packer, "Prayers and Answers," Ensign, November 1979, p. 20). Satan is a great deceiver, and he is the source of some of these spurious revelations. Others are simply imagined.

If a revelation is outside the limits of stewardship, you know it is not from the Lord, and you are not bound by it.

[Bircher]

Hey Bircher...I believe he was pointing that at notjamesbond on the govt. story bit...and actually agreed with you about logic and responsibility of proving something right...

oh, I thought that was a reference to me not 100% buying any of the 9/11 theories. Saying that the

"sword cut both ways"

because he thought I was not using the same logic in regards to the govts story of 9/11 events.

Thanks for the heads up

[AussieOi]

ight...

oh, I thought that was a reference to me not 100% buying any of the 9/11 theories. Saying that the

"sword cut both ways"

because he thought I was not using the same logic in regards to the govts story of 9/11 events.

Thanks for the heads up[/quote]


yeah i think i was. wasn't it you in the thread who was playing the other side of it? IIRC it was. All I'm saying is that it seemed you were buying the govt line on that one and asking us to justify how its not correct.

If it were you in that thread, then your comment "I do not take the "official" view, so right off the bat you mis-characterize me and my position." disingeneous.

Further, you are asking now "I am asking BOTH sides to prove their case. Until a case is proven, the whole thing is theory and in unsolved mystery mode. I have NEVER said prove the government story wrong, I have only said prove your story right."

Hmm. you might want to re-read that. First it seemed you were pretty solid on the govt case, you were defending the pictures of the supposed "wreckage" (rotflmao) on the lawn and so forth. showed us some youtube vision of a lane disintegrating into a wall etc. Now you are saying you don't necessarily buy it? i might revisit that thread.

As for "I have NEVER said prove the government story wrong, I have only said prove your story right."

Well again, I'm glad you bircher 1950's fascist types aren't judges and DA's over here. Last time I checked you believe in the 5th amendment, and the burden of proof is on the party asserting the claim. Although under Bushes Patriot Act the onus is on a defendant to prove they are innocent. Also without access to the evidence against them. Perhaps if the US government released the video vision and flight recorder data we would be in a position to prove it.?

[abbykay13]

I heard the moon thing did happen, but I'm not sure if it was Pres Hinckley or not.

Do you guys think the 700 billion is going to help the stock market?

[caddis]

I heard the moon thing did happen, but I'm not sure if it was Pres Hinckley or not.

It was President Hinckley in his "Living in the Fulness of Times" talk.

Do you guys think the 700 billion is going to help the stock market?

Only temporarily

[notjamesbond003.5]

I heard the moon thing did happen, but I'm not sure if it was Pres Hinckley or not.

Do you guys think the 700 billion is going to help the stock market?

No.

and:

Tell Amy hello.



db9

[notjamesbond003.5]

I heard the moon thing did happen, but I'm not sure if it was Pres Hinckley or not.

It was President Hinckley in his "Living in the Fulness of Times" talk.

Do you guys think the 700 billion is going to help the stock market?

Only temporarily

Don't think Ranae mentions the Red/Blood moon in any of her dreams-so you guys cannot kick her around for that one.

njb

[notjamesbond003.5]

Also, for all those ppl bad mouthing this faithful member of the church who holds a Temple reccomend, supports the Prophet and Apostles, I say let's give this a few weeks months.

There are suppose to be 2 earthquakes in Ut around Fall Conference. If they do not come to pass, then it will be time to question her credibility.

Fair enough?

So far, she is spot on with Bush, Obama and Mac not cooperating on the 700 Billion dollar bail out.

njb

[shadow]

Also, for all those ppl bad mouthing this faithful member of the church who holds a Temple reccomend, supports the Prophet and Apostles, I say let's give this a few weeks months.

There are suppose to be 2 earthquakes in Ut around Fall Conference. If they do not come to pass, then it will be time to question her credibility.

Fair enough?

I don't know that she's been bad mouthed, just the process of attempting to predict the future and sharing it as fact.
In her dream she stated (going off memory) that the earthquake hits before conference. If I were you not1/2bond, I'd only give her 8 or 9 days, not months, to question her credibility.
But if what she dreams comes to pass, holy crap! that's soon.

[notjamesbond003.5]

Shadow-

All I'm saying is give this person a fair shake, we'll all very know shortly.

Also for the people who are talking about GBH's talk in 2001 about the "Moon Turning to Blood" found in Joel Chap 2 where GBH said it has came to pass already, you are ignoring the preceding verses which are quite relevant, here's a portion of the talk:

The era in which we live is the fulness of times spoken of in the scriptures, when God has brought together all of the elements of previous dispensations. From the day that He and His Beloved Son manifested themselves to the boy Joseph, there has been a tremendous cascade of enlightenment poured out upon the world. The hearts of men have turned to their fathers in fulfillment of the words of Malachi. The vision of Joel has been fulfilled wherein he declared:

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call" (Joel 2:28–32)."


It could be a very clear example of God pouring out His Spirit upon this one paticular "daughter" being able have dreams and prophesy.
She fully supports our leaders, is not writing a book or trying to make money.

Don't be afraid to think outside the box.

njb

[will]

"All I'm saying is give this person a fair shake, we'll all very know shortly"

sure I will give up my beliefs to follow this Vision. (I Don't think so) NJB you are asking people to accept a so called revelation pertaining to the Church, Which does not come from the Prophet,Twelve,Seventy,Patriarch, Stake President, Bishop, and what authority does this person have? Hello..... Enough already. Revelation does not has not and will not work this way. Joseph Smith talked on this very thing when others claimed to recieve revelation for the church. No way not now or ever will it change.

[notjamesbond003.5]

youre mistaken.

hiram page claimed to have revelations for direction and doctrines of the church.

all this lady says is this is what i saw, be warned, and follow our prophet and leaders.

hiram page did not do this.

get your facts straight.

njb

[truthseeds]

I can't dismiss these visions / dreams / prophecies - whatever you want to call them. I have been thinking about them a lot, maybe too much and losing sleep over it this last week. So much is aligning - between prophecies, these dreams, Menet's 'vision', it's hard to call it all B.S. Although this last set of dreams and the description seems somewhat contrived and almost too deliberate. But I can't get over how Sarah Menet saw the 9/11 event, followed by an economic disaster...

As I looked upon the continent of North America, I zeroed in on the eastern coast and then on New York specifically. I saw New York City with all of its people and buildings. I then saw some tall buildings crashing to the earth surrounded by tremendous amounts of smoke, dust, and debris.

I zoomed in closer into the smoke and dust, and I saw a woman holding a little girl's hand and running from the crashing buildings. The woman had long dark hair, hanging past her shoulders and curled inward slightly. She wore a beige business suit, heels of a slightly darker color, perhaps tan, and she was not wearing glasses. The little girl appeared to be about 6 or 7 years old with short brown hair reaching below the chin and cut in a type of pageboy look. They ran together, holding hands and trying to escape from the falling buildings. As they ran through the heavy smoke and dust, they were forced to let go of their hands and became separated. The child was terrified, and I could hear her screaming, "Mommy, mommy!" over and over again.

I don't know their outcome, if they lived or died, but I can still see the face of the woman clearly and could easily identify her from a photo or describe her to a sketch artist. I asked if an earthquake had caused the buildings to fall and felt impressed that the answer was no. However, I was not given any indication as to the cause of the destruction. (Incidentally, I told this story many, many times before September 11, 2001. When I did see on television the World Trade Center towers collapsing, I knew that this was what I had seen.

The next thing that came to me was more felt than seen. It was the understanding that shortly after the crashing of the buildings in New York City, commerce ceased. Shopping and buying seemed to stop, and the economy failed throughout the world. Few had any money at all, and those who did have it could not buy anything of worth with it. Gold and silver and other commodities had value and could be traded.

I donno...I'm tired though.

[Bircher]

Thanks for defending me and or the JBS against the lies and smears from above guys.

I wont respond to such intentional bearing of false witness, but did not want anyone to think my non response was an admission of guilt. It is an attempt to avoid the spirit of the evil one.

[jbalm]

Don't think Ranae mentions the Red/Blood moon in any of her dreams-so you guys cannot kick her around for that one.

Not kicking her around. Just skeptical. She mentioned it:

I was told. Know and watch for the signs of the Lords coming! Moon turning to blood, stars falling from the sky (I thought then of the fire hail) and a Temple in Jerusalem. I was told, "do not be deceived by accepting a false Christ (project blue beam) and never ever take the mark of the beast (Verichip).

[notjamesbond003.5]

jbalm,

i think youre spliting hairs.

we really have no choice in that matter, but to give this member a fair shake.

i mean the future is going to roll out regardless, correct?

That said, if an earthquake happens in the slc after conference *then* we might want take a loser look at her. if a larger one happens after that, then i think she's accuarate.


however, if she starts saying "follow me, the main stream church is corrupt" at anytime, even if these events are predicted correctly-that is the time we should run from her.

Always follow the Brethren-this has been her mantra thus far. Let's hope it always stays this way.

njb

[Mark]

Did you read my post Bond? This sister has predicted catastrophic events over the past several years again and again. She has taken on almost cult like status on these other boards. Everyone hangs on her next prediction of cataclysmic proportion. Some of her most devoted fans have begun to question her visions. Tell me she doesn't crave the attention. She says that those beyond the grave are visiting her and telling her of these events to come. Aren't you just a bit sceptical of which spirits are visiting? Why would righteous valiant spirits be coming to her to warn those in these groups who come to her meeting or read her on these boards of these events? Do you think the brethren would approve of her holding meetings and telling people that cataclysmic events told to her by deceased spirits are at their doorstep? They have in the past discouraged such meetings yet these folks just continue holding them anyway. Some people are very influenced by what others who appear in the know say. They will make life changing decisions based on these peoples predictions. Don't you see the potential problems that could arise here?

[truthseeds]

Don't you see the potential problems that could arise here?

For example, for people like me...just getting back to the gospel after a long hiatus and trying to get ready to go through the temple, yet I'm wasting precious time and energy worrying about these catastrophic events.

[notjamesbond003.5]

Did you read my post Bond? This sister has predicted catastrophic events over the past several years again and again. She has taken on almost cult like status on these other boards. Everyone hangs on her next prediction of cataclysmic proportion. Some of her most devoted fans have begun to question her visions. Tell me she doesn't crave the attention. She says that those beyond the grave are visiting her and telling her of these events to come. Aren't you just a bit sceptical of which spirits are visiting? Why would righteous valiant spirits be coming to her to warn those in these groups who come to her meeting or read her on these boards of these events? Do you think the brethren would approve of her holding meetings and telling people that cataclysmic events told to her by deceased spirits are at their doorstep? They have in the past discouraged such meetings yet these folks just continue holding them anyway. Some people are very influenced by what others who appear in the know say. They will make life changing decisions based on these peoples predictions. Don't you see the potential problems that could arise here?

Yes, I read it.

I don't think she is craving attn.
I don't think she is preaching anything contrary to the Brethren.

Until she tells us to move to Costa Rica, or Nova Scotia and the Church has fallen-in my mind the jury is still out.

If these catstrophes happen in the ensuing months or weeks, there is nothing to fear, however some may owe her an apology.

If we also have martail law this Spring, some may owe her an apology.

Do you discount when other faithful members have manifestations of their loved ones in the Temples?

njb

[HoneyBee]

I know it's off topic, but...

Truthseeds, I am sooo proud of you! Thank you for returning to the fold! You are most welcome and I am looking forward to the day when you enter worthy into the Holy Temples. Please, let me help you celebrate when you do! I have a testimony, that your efforts are recognized by our Heavenly Father, that he knows you, and is cheering you on every step of the way.

Keep up the good works,
HoneyBee

[truthseeds]

I know it's off topic, but...

Truthseeds, I am sooo proud of you! Thank you for returning to the fold! You are most welcome and I am looking forward to the day when you enter worthy into the Holy Temples. Please, let me help you celebrate when you do! I have a testimony, that your efforts are recognized by our Heavenly Father, that he knows you, and is cheering you on every step of the way.

Keep up the good works,
HoneyBee

Thank you HoneyBee...very kind words. My heart swells. A couple days ago our visiting teacher came by with the Stake leaders. We talked about our plans for the Temple and the spirit filled the room and I balled my eyes out. I apoligized for being such a baby, and he said he's learned the spirit is liquid. He then said a prayer with such beauty and spirit, blessing our home and the tears rolled down my face again. We then shook hands, patted backs and hugged intently. What an amazing experience we had, and it was the first time I'd met him. I can hardly wait for the experiences we'll have as a family in the Holy Temples.

I thank you for that testimony HoneyBee and will let you know how we progress.