Where Are You On The Political Scale?

[Ezra]

Better yet proclaim peace not war. Figure out how to find peace not war.

Look for every option to find our own fault and right it first. Not war.

Very idealistic. From your keyboard to God's ears. Before we achieve Zion/Utopia though, we have to work with what we've actually got to work with.[/quote]don't buy into the "before we achieve, we have to do it this way" approach. Perhaps God is looking for people who skip this idea altogether.[/quote]
I don't think a draft is something to do temporarily until the Savior comes. Since we don't know when that will be. I think it's something we can actually do that will limit war significantly.[/quote]


So in other words. If we take away people's freedom to choose to go to war voluntary we will be a less war like people?

Sounds like a bandaid. I hear what your saying as far as those who make the laws and vote to go to war or not.

But I have a better idea.

Only those who want war goes to war. Only those who vote for wars Family members go to war. Leave everyone eles out of it.

[KMCopeland]

So in other words. If we take away people's freedom to choose to go to war voluntary we will be a less war like people?

Sounds like a bandaid. I hear what your saying as far as those who make the laws and vote to go to war or not.

But I have a better idea.

Only those who want war goes to war. Only those who vote for wars Family members go to war. Leave everyone eles out of it.

I could live with that. It has a few problems -- but I could live with it. If it were possible.

[Fiannan]

Doesn't Israel have mandatory service in the military?

It does. It has several tiers of service, and men serve a 3 year tour of duty, while women only serve 2. It has lots of exemptions too. I believe only about half of those that have been technically drafted only ever serve.


Got a crackerjack little military though. Small but deadly.

And you would support that? Israel is at a state of war with several of its neighbors and thus needs to be constantly prepared. The US does not need that, nor does it need to be sticking its nose into everyone else's business.

And this is only up until 2010: http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhance ... 566-37.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[KMCopeland]

Doesn't Israel have mandatory service in the military?

It does. It has several tiers of service, and men serve a 3 year tour of duty, while women only serve 2. It has lots of exemptions too. I believe only about half of those that have been technically drafted only ever serve.


Got a crackerjack little military though. Small but deadly.

And you would support that? Israel is at a state of war with several of its neighbors and thus needs to be constantly prepared. The US does not need that, nor does it need to be sticking its nose into everyone else's business.

I support a draft. I don't support sticking our nose into everyone else's business. They actually are two different things.

[Fiannan]

KMC, are you old enough to enlist? If not for yourself then for the glory of our fearless leader! I tried to make it as easy as possible:

http://www.goarmy.com/locate-a-recruiter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[KMCopeland]

Got a crackerjack little military though. Small but deadly.

So did the Assyrians who attacked Jerusalem under righteous king Hezekiah...

And ..... ?

Being a crackerjack military means what, exactly?

It means that thanks to us, Israel has a military that is considered the 5th or 6th most powerful in the world. That's all it means.

Is absolute ruthlessness a main requirement?

I don't think so.

Before we achieve Zion/Utopia though, we have to work with what we've actually got to work with.

And, what is it we have to work with BEFORE we achieve ZION?

What we've got as of today. What are you actually asking me?

[SmallFarm]

KMC, are you old enough to enlist? If not for yourself then for the glory of our fearless leader! I tried to make it as easy as possible:

http://www.goarmy.com/locate-a-recruiter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be fair, KMCopeland is anti-war, he simply sees a mandatory draft as a means to ending war. In theory, it works out; to me it's still wrong even if it works.

[KMCopeland]

KMC, are you old enough to enlist? If not for yourself then for the glory of our fearless leader! I tried to make it as easy as possible:

http://www.goarmy.com/locate-a-recruiter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You have no idea just how funny this is.

[jbalm]

KMC, are you old enough to enlist? If not for yourself then for the glory of our fearless leader! I tried to make it as easy as possible:

http://www.goarmy.com/locate-a-recruiter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you missed KMC's point by a few miles.

[buffalo_girl]

What we've got as of today. What are you actually asking me?

Are you talking about what we have today, as Covenant People with access to the Melchizedek Priesthood.

or

What we have as a military/industrial driven Empire?

[KMCopeland]

What we've got as of today. What are you actually asking me?

Are you talking about what we have today, as Covenant People with access to the Melchizedek Priesthood.

or

What we have as a military/industrial driven Empire?

Both. Since so many of the Covenant People with access to the Priesthood are members of the military (Mormons are heavily represented in the military -- and you can add "industrial driven Empire" to that if you want to -- members of the church make up a larger percentage of the military than they do the general population), "what we have today" would have to be both of them, combined into one.

[ajax]

It would seem to fit within this scale: Classical Liberalism / Libertarianism / Anarchism? How would you differentiate?

Libertarianism and Anarchism have several factors that make them anti-Liberty.

Such as?

[wargames83]

I am against the draft. It is probably obsolete in the U.S.A. anyway. We still have theselective service system, but conscription hasn't been used since the Vietnam war.

Here are my latest results from the political spectrum quiz:
Compass:
You are a centrist social libertarian.
Right: 0.92, Libertarian: 4.36


Foreign Policy:
On the left side are pacifists and anti-war activists. On the right side are those who want a strong military that intervenes around the world. You scored: -3.24


Culture:
Where are you in the culture war? On the liberal side, or the conservative side? This scale may apply more to the US than other countries. You scored: -3.69

[freedomforall]

Aren't we supposed to vote for the man...not the party? Since both the major parties are for the same things on the far left and far right, they're both evil. Both parties are for socialism.
How many people thought or hoped that once repubs took over the house that Obamcare would have been thrown out? Yet things haven't changed, only the title.
Amnesty is still being tossed back and forth but who will win in the end? The illegals, of course. They'll still be here sucking up all the benees they can get, amnesty or no amnesty. Our prisons are and will be filled with illegals that are apt to live like criminals. Billions of dollars have been sent to Mexico by illegals that found a loophole in IRS statutes. Maybe this has changed but I don't know.
I have my suspicion too that once amnesty is passed, Obama will never have to reveal his birth place. He will be here legally at his own hand, and he will laugh his head off.

SEE: http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama- ... fbW3xpL.97" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just what do you think Obama is admitting to as to where he was born?

[OCDMOM]

KMC, are you old enough to enlist? If not for yourself then for the glory of our fearless leader! I tried to make it as easy as possible:

http://www.goarmy.com/locate-a-recruiter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be fair, KMCopeland is anti-war, he simply sees a mandatory draft as a means to ending war. In theory, it works out; to me it's still wrong even if it works.

KMCopeland is a he? I think she is a she.

[wargames83]

Aren't we supposed to vote for the man...not the party? Since both the major parties are for the same things on the far left and far right, they're both evil. Both parties are for socialism.

Neither major party in the U.S. are on the far left or the far right. Neither are for socialism. A lot of the elected officials are for corporatism. That is how they raised money to get elected in the first place.

How many people thought or hoped that once repubs took over the house that Obamcare would have been thrown out? Yet things haven't changed, only the title.
Amnesty is still being tossed back and forth but who will win in the end? The illegals, of course. They'll still be here sucking up all the benees they can get, amnesty or no amnesty. Our prisons are and will be filled with illegals that are apt to live like criminals. Billions of dollars have been sent to Mexico by illegals that found a loophole in IRS statutes. Maybe this has changed but I don't know.
I have my suspicion too that once amnesty is passed, Obama will never have to reveal his birth place. He will be here legally at his own hand, and he will laugh his head off.

SEE: http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama- ... fbW3xpL.97" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just what do you think Obama is admitting to as to where he was born?

Obama was born in Hawaii, as his birth certificate shows. The logic behind this conspiracy theory makes no sense. The clip you showed was Obama making a joke at the expense of birthers like you.

[freedomforall]

Next!

[freedomforall]

Obama Birth Certificate: Confirmed Forgery According To Top Experts

Go ahead and prove experts to be wrong other than mere defense of the POTUS. Is Snopes telling the truth?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... ficate.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PROOF!!! Obama Birth Certificate Fraud

[fallspice]

I consider myself a moderate, but there isn't a spot for that on the poll. Maybe that would mean independent? Not sure. I usually can see both sides of the debate and can become agitated with how polarized the media is. However, I also worked at a media station and so I became really annoyed with how we were often asked to choose "soap opera" topics when there were really amazing things also going on in the world.

Maybe my beef is more with media than labeling?

[wargames83]

Obama Birth Certificate: Confirmed Forgery According To Top Experts

Go ahead and prove experts to be wrong other than mere defense of the POTUS. Is Snopes telling the truth?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... ficate.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PROOF!!! Obama Birth Certificate Fraud

The fact that the Cold Case Posse hasn't gotten anywhere after all these years suggests that they don't have a real case.

[freedomforall]

Obama Birth Certificate: Confirmed Forgery According To Top Experts

Go ahead and prove experts to be wrong other than mere defense of the POTUS. Is Snopes telling the truth?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... ficate.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PROOF!!! Obama Birth Certificate Fraud

The fact that the Cold Case Posse hasn't gotten anywhere after all these years suggests that they don't have a real case.

Neither does the government! Haven't you read None Dare Call It Conspiracy?

Here's a link making it so easy even a Caveman could push the button.None Dare Call It Conspiracy

Ezra Taft Benson said:
I wish that every citizen of every country in the free world and every slave behind the Iron Curtain might read this book.

Besides, it is our responsibility to learn about the secret combinations above us, right?

David O. McKay said:

Latter-day Saints should have nothing to do with secret combinations and groups antagonistic to the Constitutional law of the land….
Next to being one in worshiping God, there is nothing in this world upon which this Church should be more united than in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States. (October 1939, General Conference)

And just how can the saints do this without looking around and seeing what is righteous and that which is evil coming from government, and the wisdom to know the difference?

[freedomforall]

This guy set out to prove layers weren't used in Obama's birth certificate, but look how confused and bewildered he became, but stuck with his story anyway.

[SmallFarm]

KMC, are you old enough to enlist? If not for yourself then for the glory of our fearless leader! I tried to make it as easy as possible:

http://www.goarmy.com/locate-a-recruiter.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be fair, KMCopeland is anti-war, he simply sees a mandatory draft as a means to ending war. In theory, it works out; to me it's still wrong even if it works.

KMCopeland is a he? I think she is a she.

In the English language, "he" is the neuter pronoun when the gender is unknown. :-B

[wargames83]

Thanks for the link, freedomforall. So far I have read the first section and I am not very impressed. I laughed after I read this paragraph on the first page of the body of the booK:

Maybe you are one of those persons. Something is bugging you, but you aren't sure what.
We keep electing new Presidents who seemingly promise faithfully to halt the worldwide
Communist advance, put the blocks to extravagant government spending, douse the
tea of inflation, put the economy on an even keel, reverse the trend which is turning the
country mto a moral sewer, and toss the criminals into the hoosegow where they belong.
Yet despite high hopes and glittering campaign promise these problems continue to
worsen no matter who is in office. Each new administration, whether it be Republican or
Democrat continues the same basic policies of the previous administration which it had
so thoroughly denounced during the election campaign. It is considered poor form to
mention this, but it is true nonetheless. Is there a plausible reason to explain why this
happens? We are not supposed to think so. We are supposed to think it is all accidental
and coincidental and that therefore there is nothing we can do about it.

After this book had been written the Soviet Union fell, inflation has fallen significantly, and the United States prison population has become the largest prison population in the world. Does this mean the conspiracy to not keep these campaign promises stopped?

There are another couple of paragraphs near the beginning that I have problems with.

Those who believe that major world events result from planning are laughed at tot
believing in the "conspiracy theory of history." Of course, no one in this modern day and
age readily believes in the conspiracy theory of history — except those who Those who
believe that major world events result from planning are laughed at for believing in the
"conspiracy theory of history." Of course, no one in this modern day and age really
believes in the conspiracy theory of history — except those who have taken the time to
study the subject. When you think about it, there are really only two theories of history.
Either things happen by accident neither planned nor caused by anybody, or they happen
because they are planned and somebody causes them to happen. In reality, it is the
accidental theory of history preached in the unhallowed Halls of Ivy which should be
ridiculed. Otherwise, why does every recent administration make the same mistakes as
the previous ones? Why do they repeat the errors of the past which produce inflation,
depressions and war? Why does our State Department "stumble" from one Communist aiding
"blunder" to another? If you believe it is all an accident or the result of mysterious
and unexplainable tides of history, you will be regarded as an "intellectual" who
understands that we live in a complex world. If you believe that something like 32,496
consecutive coincidences over the past forty years stretches the law of averages a bit, you
are a kook!

"except those who Those who believe that major world events result from planning are laughed at for believing in the
conspiracy theory of history." is very confusing. Can you explain what that means. Saying that history is either an accident or a conspiracy is a false dichotomy. Events can have driving material causes without being planned by one group. The author doesn't explain what any of these supposed 32,496 things that the U.S. government did to aid communism were. Does he explain somewhere in the rest of the book? If the United States government was secretly helping communism why did the Soviet Union fall? Why does mainland China act more like an authoritarian State Capitalist nation than a Communist one? (Would a communist country allow corporations like Foxconn to operate?)

Some rebuttals to the next paragraph:

"Why is it that virtually all "reputable" scholars and mass media columnists and commentators reject the cause and effect or conspiratorial theory of history?"
Like a said before the cause and effect view of history is not the same thing as the conspiratorial theory of history. Conflating the two makes it look like the author doesn't know what he is talking about.

"Primarily,most scholars follow the crowd in the academic world just as most women follow Why is
it that virtually all "reputable" scholars and mass media columnists and commentators
reject the cause and effect or conspiratorial theory of history? Primarily, most scholars
follow the crowd in the academic world just as most women follow fashions. '

Either there were some errors when scanning this book unto the computer or this book did not have a very good editor. I guess this is the reason for the confusing sentence in the last paraph as well.

"The same is true of the mass media. While
professors and pontificators profess to be tolerant and broadminded, in practice it's
strictly a one way street-with all traffic flowing left. A Maoist can be tolerated by
Liberals of Ivory Towerland or by the Establishment's media pundits, but to be a
conservative, and a conservative who propounds a conspiratorial view, is absolutely
verboten"

When this book was published Cleon Skousen was a professor, The far right Revilo P Oliver was a professor at the University of Illinois, and Economist Milton Friedman was teaching at the Univeristy of Chicago.

From the next paragraph: Such was thecase with the author of this book. It was only because he set out to prove the conservative
anti-Communists wrong that he happened to end up writing this book. His initial reaction
to the conservative point of view was one of suspicion and hostility; and it was only after
many months of intensive research that he had to admit that he had been "conned."

According to Wikipedia Gary Allen, the author, wrote for conservative political magazines in the 60s, was part of the John Bircher society, and a speech writer for George Wallace before he wrote this book. Was he lying about what his views where before he wrote this book, or is this about the secondary author who only gets a "with" credit? Very confusing.

From a few paragraphs later:
"When Columbus told people the world was a ball and not a pancake, they
were highly upset."

Educated Europeans during the time of Columbus did NOT believe that the world of flat. Nitpicking point, I know, but it this is more evidence that fact checking is not the authors' strong suit. Kind of makes the title of this section ironic.

I started reading the second section but gave up when the book conflated communism with imperialism and said that left should be considered total government and right wing no government, The term right wing and left wing came from the French National assembly where supporters of monarchy sat on the right, and revolutionaries sat on the left. Supporting monarchy is hardly supporting no government. Based on how weak the beginning of the book is I feel no compulsion to waste any more time reading it.

[freedomforall]

Based on how weak the beginning of the book is I feel no compulsion to waste any more time reading it.

If it was good enough for Ezra Taft Benson to read it and then ask the saints to read it...it is good enough for me to read and any other person that could glean something from it. But, please, don't waste any more time reading it. Perhaps 99% of Mormons didn't. However, can you spare 1 3/4 minutes? I just can't hold myself back from proving that ETB said anything at all to the saints concerning reading the book. He must have seen some importance in doing so.

Take note that he says "there is no conspiracy theory in the Book of Mormon, there is conspiracy fact!"