What is the appeal of Denver Snuffer?

[rewcox]

BroJones has commented on the 10 part talk by DS, you have to admit that was bizarre.

Not if you understand it.

I forgot, I'm a pious blind hypocrite..... Or maybe not.

You have to admit, BroJones is reliable.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

BroJones has commented on the 10 part talk by DS, you have to admit that was bizarre.

Not if you understand it.

I forgot, I'm a pious blind hypocrite..... Or maybe not.

You have to admit, BroJones is reliable.

Are you suggesting by this that I called you those names?

BroJones has an opinion that he chooses to adhere to, but if you are using his opinion as a gauge for gospel truth, you are relying on the arm of flesh and making him your idol, right?

[rewcox]

BroJones has an opinion that he chooses to adhere to, but if you are using his opinion as a gauge for gospel truth, you are relying on the arm of flesh and making him your idol, right?

I like BroJones but he is not my idol. I also like the leaders, they also are not idols.

You are also fine to have your opinions.

For some reason, some of you have this need to complain or murmur about the leaders.

To get to what Bill is asking about, i think this comes from PTHG and other comments DS makes, like in the tenth part. And while the group "knows" the standard answers, ya'll are quite enamored with DS.

[Thomas]

If Denver's claims are truth, all who will not listen to him will be cut off from the Lord and will die from the coming calamities. I guess there are some who believe he is who he claims to be.

9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

This is what Snuffer says is happening now. That God is setting his hand to accomplish this work. That Denver is giving us the words of Christ. That those who will not heed the words are ignoring the words of Christ. There is a great price in turning the word of Christ away as a thing of no value.

It is hard to hear that we need repentance. We come from a tradition of pride that assures us we are in the right and that God is well pleased with us. The scriptures give God's true opinion of us and it's not good.

[Stacy Oliver]

It is hard to hear that we need repentance. We come from a tradition of pride that assures us we are in the right and that God is well pleased with us. The scriptures give God's true opinion of us and it's not good.

Oh, but the "everything is fine, don't change a thing, you don't need to repent" talks have been my favorite part of Gen Con.

[rewcox]

Thomas, we all seek the Christ.

If you have gotten there, are you helping others to get there?

How does murmuring and complaining about church leaders get you to Christ?

[Thomas]

Thomas, we all seek the Christ.

If you have gotten there, are you helping others to get there?

How does murmuring and complaining about church leaders get you to Christ?

How does murmuring about Denver get you or anyone else to Christ.

If the leaders are leading us down the path to hell, then someone ought to speak up. What Denver is saying, he claims comes from Christ. This is an important concept because as long as you and others believe you are on the right path, you will not make any changes to your course. Satan doesn't need you committing adultery or robbing banks to capture you. He only needs you to remain ignorant.

Here is a snippet from Denver's latest blog post:

Truth can be startling, but it is necessary. Without the truth it is impossible to repent. We will never change while trusting a lie. But we will never fail to repent when the truth is laid bare before us.

In order to take people captive, all that is required is for people to be content with their ignorance. The greatest threat to salvation does not come from teaching false doctrine, but instead comes from ignoring doctrine altogether. Substituting platitudes and truisms for careful, ponderous and solemn investigation of the deep things of God will suffice. It isn't necessary for the devil to convince you of lies, only for him to make you content in your ignorance, or fearful of the search for truth.http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe you are murmuring against Christ.

[Niyr]

If Denver's claims are truth, all who will not listen to him will be cut off from the Lord and will die from the coming calamities. I guess there are some who believe he is who he claims to be.

9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

This is what Snuffer says is happening now. That God is setting his hand to accomplish this work. That Denver is giving us the words of Christ. That those who will not heed the words are ignoring the words of Christ. There is a great price in turning the word of Christ away as a thing of no value.

It is hard to hear that we need repentance. We come from a tradition of pride that assures us we are in the right and that God is well pleased with us. The scriptures give God's true opinion of us and it's not good.

So Denver thinks he is that servant? Lol...

[rewcox]

How are the leaders leading us to hell?

Do you read President Monsons talk?

On the other hand, the Denver people are getting themselves excommunicated, or are resigning, etc.

There is a pretty clear difference.

[Thomas]

Niyr wrote:
So Denver thinks he is that servant? Lol...

The problem I see with this attitude is that you will dismiss anyone that comes along. One of those who comes along will be the real deal and you will be on the wrong side of God.

The same was said of Christ.

John 1:46
46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

[Thomas]

How are the leaders leading us to hell?

Do you read President Monsons talk?

On the other hand, the Denver people are getting themselves excommunicated, or are resigning, etc.

There is a pretty clear difference.

I would invite you to read the scriptures my friend. I think you have been around this forum long enough to know the answer. You can also read the entire blog post that Denver wrote. There is enough of an answer right there.

You also give a pretty reason right in own post as you equate church membership with salvation,which is a false doctrine.

[ajax]

So Denver thinks he is that servant? Lol...

So said one First Century Jew to another as they looked at Jesus. Perhaps messengers don't come as you think they come.

On the other hand, the Denver people are getting themselves excommunicated, or are resigning, etc.
There is a pretty clear difference.

So said one First Century Jew to another. I wonder what they thought of some of their membership being baptized by John and following this dude from Nazareth.

[Bill]

May I ask- what do you tell a Bishop or counselor when he asks if you "abstain from alcohol"? do you admit that you drink alcoholic wine?

......
What church do you belong to ?? In the 61 years I have been a member of the COJCOLDS I have never ever been asked that question by anyone. I have only been asked do you keep the WOW . Are you making up new TR questions by yourself. Spare me your imposition of the philosophies of men on the gospel please

Ha, that is an example of the wordsmithing I talked about in my original post that you told me was making false assumptions. IE Do you obey the word of wisdom? That means abstain from alchohol, smoking, tea, coffee, etc. Just like Do you sustain the Prophet etc. doesn't mean do you sustain him to be a Ward basketball coach (he is tall enough I realize).

Why the need to wordsmith? Just say you don't obey the word of wisdom (if you do actually smoke, drink etc.), and you don't sustain the Prophet (if you think he is not a prophet).

[ajax]

Just say you don't obey the word of wisdom (if you do actually smoke, drink etc.),

Um, drinking doesn't mean you don't obey the WoW. Talk about wordsmithing. Actually read sec 89 and take the words seriously. Forget commentary, which are just opinions of men. But this is a different topic for a different thread.

[rewcox]

You also give a pretty reason right in own post as you equate church membership with salvation,which is a false doctrine.

Sometimes I wonder what scriptures you read. Here is one:
4 Nephi

1 And it came to pass that the thirty and fourth year passed away, and also the thirty and fifth, and behold the disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ in all the lands round about. And as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost.
4 Nephi 1:1
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/4-ne/1?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow, the disciples of Christ formed a church. Hmm, not a community.

We also have the Church of Christ, those who join repent, are baptized.

The Book of Mormon destroys your craft.

[Bill]

The question is can you understand the appeal of being part of the greatest thing that has happened to mankind in at least the last 180 years and more accurately in the last 2000 years. That is what all of this is about

Boo, can you expand on your last statement? It sounds like there is a lot more behind that statement than has been discussed on this thread.

I really should stop spending so much time on this and go do the dishes instead but since you asked. The fundamental purpose of the single talk with 10 chapters was to inform people that we once again have a once in a multiple generational opportunity to prepare ourselves to bring about Zion . The return of Zion is a necessary prerequisite to the return of the Savior and it will return when it has an earthly counterpart. Effectively we have the same opportunity that Moses offered the children of Israel at Mt Horeb and the Lord offered the early saints as recorded in the D&C section 124 et al.We can turn into a Zion people and be part of the return of the heavenly Zion and be caught up to met them. Genesis 9 JST Or we can continue our slothful and dissolute ways patting ourselves on the back and saying all is well in the good ship Zion and wait another few hundred years before the Lord will give another people the opportunity we have rejected 3Nephi16. The testimony of the D Snuffers and Jules and others ( including me) on this forum and elsewhere is that now is the time mentioned by Joel and foretold by Joseph that ( contrary to the institutional dogma) men are again seeing visions of God and his angels and dreaming dreams and working miracles. That is all part of His " strange work' and his marvelous work that will result in the remnant bringing about the New Jerusalem 3 Nephi 20:8-23. But it will only happen if we are made pure so when he appears we can be like him Moroni 7 ;48. This whole thing isn't about power ,control, institution building or organized movements. It is about preparing people to meet God

Thanks, that gives me the background to understand all the other things that are being said on this thread. Where is the single talk with 10 Chapters, I would like to read it?

So the Snuffer vision is to bring about a Zion people to usher in the return of the Lord; and that the LDS Church is not performing that task. That the LDS was supposed to be performing that task but fell off the path that Joseph set. Am I understanding what your are saying?

[Bill]

Just say you don't obey the word of wisdom (if you do actually smoke, drink etc.),

Um, drinking doesn't mean you don't obey the WoW. Talk about wordsmithing. Actually read sec 89 and take the words seriously. Forget commentary, which are just opinions of men. But this is a different topic for a different thread.

'

agreed- different thread

[SAM]

It is hard to hear that we need repentance. We come from a tradition of pride that assures us we are in the right and that God is well pleased with us. The scriptures give God's true opinion of us and it's not good.

Oh, but the "everything is fine, don't change a thing, you don't need to repent" talks have been my favorite part of Gen Con.

You probably liked this talk then:

Most Christians give to the poor and the needy, as Jesus taught (see Matthew 25:31–46; Mark 14:7). In following this teaching of our Savior, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members excel. Our members make generous contributions to charities and give personal service and other gifts to the poor and needy. In addition, our members fast for two meals each month and donate at least the cost of these meals as a fast offering, which our bishops and branch presidents use to help our needy members. Our fasting to help the hungry is an act of charity and, when done with pure intent, is a spiritual feast.

Less well known is our Church’s global humanitarian service. Using funds donated by generous members, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sends food, clothing, and other essentials to relieve the suffering of adults and children all over the world. These humanitarian donations, totaling hundreds of millions of dollars in the last decade, are made without any consideration of religion, race, or nationality.

Our massive relief effort following the 2011 Japanese earthquake and tsunami provided $13 million in cash and relief supplies. In addition, more than 31,000 Church-sponsored volunteers gave more than 600,000 hours of service. Our humanitarian assistance to the victims of Hurricane Sandy in the eastern United States included large donations of various resources, plus almost 300,000 hours of service in cleanup efforts by about 28,000 Church members. Among many other examples last year, we provided 300,000 pounds (136,000 kg) of clothing and shoes for the refugees in the African nation of Chad. During the last quarter century we have assisted nearly 30 million people in 179 countries.6 Truly, the people called “Mormons” know how to give to the poor and needy.

--Dallin H Oaks, "Followers of Christ" April 2013


I don't have anything against Elder Oaks and I liked a lot of this talk, but once he started patting us all on the back like we were good enough (because we aren't, we haven't even come close to building Zion) it made me cringe. I am glad there are people (from all sorts of belief systems) who are willing to give. We need more of that from everywhere and we should encourage it, but we aren't better than any other organization in this department and we shouldn't be publicly congratulating ourselves for what we do. We should quietly be going about our business and trying to be even better, IMO.

[boo]

If Denver's claims are truth, all who will not listen to him will be cut off from the Lord and will die from the coming calamities. I guess there are some who believe he is who he claims to be.

9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

So Denver thinks he is that servant? Lol...

So do you have a candidate ? It can't be joseph because he was killed. It can't be the Savior because he was crucified. He must be "marred" by them but not hurt. He must come forth as the time of the Gentiles is being fulfilled and bring the words of Christ to the Gentiles prior to the " remnant " treading down the Gentiles. Find me ,if you can ,another candidate and please don't say President Monson

[rewcox]

President Monson.

[Stacy Oliver]

You also give a pretty reason right in own post as you equate church membership with salvation,which is a false doctrine.

Proper priesthood authority and priesthood keys are necessary for saving ordinances. Those keys are held by the leadership of the church. Separating yourself from those with the proper keys is a big deal. (And I know what Snuffy says about keys and Section 110, but the idea that Warren Cowdery traveled hundreds of miles to sneak that section into JS's diary is laughable on its face).

[Stacy Oliver]

I don't have anything against Elder Oaks and I liked a lot of this talk, but once he started patting us all on the back like we were good enough (because we aren't, we haven't even come close to building Zion) it made me cringe. I am glad there are people (from all sorts of belief systems) who are willing to give. We need more of that from everywhere and we should encourage it, but we aren't better than any other organization in this department and we shouldn't be publicly congratulating ourselves for what we do. We should quietly be going about our business and trying to be even better, IMO.

Saying that we're doing good is not at all the same thing as saying that we're doing good enough. And don't Snufferites want more disclosure about church finances?

[boo]

[quote="bill"



Thanks, that gives me the background to understand all the other things that are being said on this thread. Where is the single talk with 10 Chapters, I would like to read it?

So the Snuffer vision is to bring about a Zion people to usher in the return of the Lord; and that the LDS Church is not performing that task. That the LDS was supposed to be performing that task but fell off the path that Joseph set. Am I understanding what your are saying?[/quote]
Bill Close enough for government work. See my post above for further elaboration, Look at 3 Nephi 20 . The 10 chapter talk were the series of 10 talks he gave over the last year. Ultimately they will be published as a single book of 10 chapters. They are all free on his website. I bet you originally thought you were asking a simple question. Surprised ?

[rewcox]

You also give a pretty reason right in own post as you equate church membership with salvation,which is a false doctrine.

Sometimes I wonder what scriptures you read. Here is one:
4 Nephi

1 And it came to pass that the thirty and fourth year passed away, and also the thirty and fifth, and behold the disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ in all the lands round about. And as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost.
4 Nephi 1:1
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/4-ne/1?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow, the disciples of Christ formed a church. Hmm, not a community.

We also have the Church of Christ, those who join repent, are baptized.

The Book of Mormon destroys your craft.

[Thomas]

You also give a pretty reason right in own post as you equate church membership with salvation,which is a false doctrine.

Sometimes I wonder what scriptures you read. Here is one:
4 Nephi

1 And it came to pass that the thirty and fourth year passed away, and also the thirty and fifth, and behold the disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ in all the lands round about. And as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost.
4 Nephi 1:1
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/4-ne/1?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow, the disciples of Christ formed a church. Hmm, not a community.

We also have the Church of Christ, those who join repent, are baptized.


The Book of Mormon destroys your craft.

The nephites went apostate and were wiped out but you think we cannot suffer the same fate.

The Bookof Mormon is the basis of my belief. You gave an example of a snap shot in time, of a righteous people.

Here is what the Book of Mormon says about us, today:

2 Nephi 28:14
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

Much of 2 Nephi is the warnings of our impending destruction. This warning is found throughout the Book of Mormon.