So people are now being baptized into the Church of Snuffy?

[Stacy Oliver]

For a long time, people defend Snuffy by saying that he wasn't going to start a church, but was simply trying to make people more faithful. Does that argument still hold?

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[Jeremy]

I am not aware of anyone from these parts being baptized into anything other than the LDS church. I am aware of people being baptized though. But the baptism is not "into". It is UNTO... and that is Christ. People are being baptized unto Christ. It is a beautiful thing from what I have heard. Very sacred experience.

[ajax]

"So people are now being baptized into the Church of Snuffy?"

It doesn't appear to be so. Looks like these were the words used from the BoM:

"O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart."

followed by,

"Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen"

There doesn't appear to be a confirmation into the "Snuffy" church afterwards.

Looks like a good experience.

[Phoenixstar117]

I would say that the decision that Tim made was made prayerfully and with full intent of his heart. As to a church, there isn't any church officially organized, nor do I see Denver Snuffer doing so. He repeated on a number of occasions that he was simply transmitting a message and that he would not be forming any church. I seem to remember in one of the talks that he mentioned something about how, if in 6 months time, he starts asking for money and women, then we can know with a surety that someone hit him over the head and he's gone crazy.
Anyway, as for Tim, I don't see this as anything but an honest man doing his best to follow the commands of God and worship him according to the dictats of his own conscious. I respect him for that as he has a lot of bravery to make such a move.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

I was baptized unto the Lord as a witness and testimony to others a year ago. It was an amazing experience. It had nothing to do with "Snuffy", but had everything to do with God - as He led me to do this, and the Lord commissioned the person who baptized me with the authority and power to do so.

[kathyn]

I would say that Snuffer's "communities" certainly seem like churches, what with baptism and all. It will be interesting to see what happens with these communities in the next year or so. I'll bet they evolve into churches.

[DPeterson]

I would say that Snuffer's "communities" certainly seem like churches, what with baptism and all. It will be interesting to see what happens with these communities in the next year or so. I'll bet they evolve into churches.

How are they "Snuffer's communities"? He didn't organize any of them. There were all organized by others. I doubt Denver will ever even take part in any of them. He has his own with his family. For them to be his it would require him to organize and lead them. I doubt anybody will even see him.

[Jeremy]

I would say that Snuffer's "communities" certainly seem like churches, what with baptism and all.

I think all this is true but one word. "Snuffer".

Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.

"my" does not equal "Snuffer" nor does it mean "Joseph" or "Thomas" or etc.

[SpeedRacer]

Did John the Baptist start a church? What the heck was he doing in the River Jordan?

[Elizabeth]

Does your LDS Bishop know of this Jules? And are you able to hold an LDS Temple Recommend following another baptism?

I was baptized unto the Lord as a witness and testimony to others a year ago. It was an amazing experience. It had nothing to do with "Snuffy", but had everything to do with God - as He led me to do this, and the Lord commissioned the person who baptized me with the authority and power to do so.

[iWriteStuff]

I was baptized unto the Lord as a witness and testimony to others a year ago. It was an amazing experience. It had nothing to do with "Snuffy", but had everything to do with God - as He led me to do this, and the Lord commissioned the person who baptized me with the authority and power to do so.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism?

Does the LDS church authorize second/third/fourth baptisms? I hadn't heard of this before. From whence cometh this doctrine?

Christ himself was baptized only once. Outside of Alma, who submerged himself upon baptizing another as a show of humility, I can't think of any other figure in the scriptures who felt it necessary to go down into the water more than once.

Just feel like renewing your covenants? Then why not give a shot at the sacrament and making it more meaningful this week. That's how Christ intended it to be, and thus He instituted it.

[Jeremy]

One Lord, one faith, one baptism?

I wonder what Brigham would say in regards to this.

Does the LDS church authorize second/third/fourth baptisms? I hadn't heard of this before. From whence cometh this doctrine?

Follow the prophet - he knows the way. [See Brigham and the topic of "re-baptism"]

Outside of Alma, who submerged himself upon baptizing another as a show of humility, I can't think of any other figure in the scriptures who felt it necessary to go down into the water more than once.

You would have question his method as well.

Just feel like renewing your covenants? Then why not give a shot at the sacrament and making it more meaningful this week. That's how Christ intended it to be, and thus He instituted it.

The sacrament is not a renewal of baptismal covenants.

[Phoenixstar117]

Actually, as to being baptized again, in the new testiment there were those who were baptized by John the Baptist, but were later commanded to be baptized again by apostles of Jesus.

Does this mean that the previous baptism was not with proper authority? The same authority that was later given to Joseph Smith? I don't think so. It was a symbol of the new covenant, and they were afterword given the Holy Ghost by the Laying on of Hands.

Another example of rebaptism would be the Nephites in the visit of Jesus after the ressurection. There were countless believers that I'm sure were baptized as it was a commandment practiced among them. After Jesus apeared however, he gave new authority to Nephi(wait didn't Nephi already have authority, after all he was a prophet who preached among the people) to baptize. This again to follow the commandment of the Lord in a new covenant.

As to being rebaptized now? I don't know and that is one of the answers I'm still looking for myself, but I sure won't receive one through the church. Only through God and the Holy Ghost.

[iWriteStuff]

The sacrament is not a renewal of baptismal covenants.

Huh?

When we are baptized, we “take upon [us] the name of Christ” and enter “into the covenant with God that [we will] be obedient unto the end of [our] lives.”7 Each Sunday we renew that baptismal covenant by partaking of the sacrament and witnessing that we are willing to keep the commandments. We seek forgiveness for any thoughts, feelings, or actions that are not in harmony with our Heavenly Father’s will. As we repent by turning away from disobedience and by beginning to obey again, we show our love for Him.
- Elder Robert D. Hales, April 2014

[iWriteStuff]

oh wait, sorry. I forgot. As of April 2014, Hales didn't have priesthood authority any more according to DS. Maybe I should find a different quote. Shouldn't be too hard.

[iWriteStuff]

As we worthily partake of the sacrament, we witness that we are willing to take the Savior’s name upon us and keep His commandments and do always remember Him, that we may have His Spirit to be with us. In this way the covenant of our baptism is renewed. The Lord assured His disciples, “As oft as ye do this ye will remember this hour that I was with you.”
- L Tom Perry, October 2011

Remember and keep the covenants you made when you were baptized, and renew those covenants each week when you partake of the sacrament. Keeping your baptismal covenants now will help you prepare for the temple covenants you will make in the future.
- Robert D. Hales, October 2013

Need I go on? The practice established by the Lord in this dispensation, to the Prophet of the Restoration, Joseph Smith, was one baptism.

[Lizzy60]

Many Saints in Joseph's day were baptized multiple times, and these were not proxy baptisms, nor were they for reinstatement after excommunication. They were for various reasons, such as desiring a healing, or making a renewed commitment to God. This is standard LDS history, not even the least bit hidden away.

[Jeremy]

The sacrament is not a renewal of baptismal covenants.

Huh?

Do you believe baptism (water and fire) is for the remission of sins?
Do you believe that the companionship of the Holy Ghost comes after baptism, but before the sacrament?
Do you believe that the sacrament is intended for those who have been baptized?

Well, to partake of the sacrament one should be worthy to do so.

And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to partake of my flesh and blood unworthily, when ye shall minister it;
For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

If the sacrament serves as a "rebaptism" or a renewal of what happened during baptism (sins washed away), then how are we to partake of the sacrament with sins? We are warned of this behavior. Notice we are not warned to avoid baptism if we are unworthy... that is kind of the point.

So through baptism (water and fire) we are able to gain the companionship of the Holy Ghost. (These are tokens 1 and 2 in the temple endowment).
Through the sacrament (which has two parts) we are able to gain the companionship of HIS spirit. (These are tokens 3 and 4 in the temple endowment).

Also, the sacrament is an expression of willingness. It is not the actual even of taking his name upon us. That is an entirely different event.

...that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them.

The baptism is about the Holy Ghost spirit. The sacrament is about Christ's spirit. The 3rd token name kinda gives it away.

As a side note to this very long side note ;) - Baptism is a telestial sphere ordinance. Sacrament is a terrestrial sphere ordinance.

I hope that answered the question to some degree.

[iWriteStuff]

Many Saints in Joseph's day were baptized multiple times, and these were not proxy baptisms, nor were they for reinstatement after excommunication. They were for various reasons, such as desiring a healing, or making a renewed commitment to God. This is standard LDS history, not even the least bit hidden away.

Are we still drinking wine for sacrament too?

Have you tried asking your bishop if you can/should get another baptism?

[Lizzy60]

Many Saints in Joseph's day were baptized multiple times, and these were not proxy baptisms, nor were they for reinstatement after excommunication. They were for various reasons, such as desiring a healing, or making a renewed commitment to God. This is standard LDS history, not even the least bit hidden away.

Are we still drinking wine for sacrament too?

Have you tried asking your bishop if you can/should get another baptism?

Are you interested in learning anything new, or do you just get off on being argumentative? You stated that Joseph restored only ONE baptism, and I said that there is ample evidence that this is incorrect. I'm not arguing, just stating a simple fact.

[iWriteStuff]

Jeremy, I believe you are confusing several issues while omitting a very vital principle of the gospel - repentance.

You are baptized for the remission of sins. Then in a separate ordinance you are told to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost. You are authorized at that point to be able to receive it's companionship, but it's not automatically received. Hence you are told to receive it.

What comes before baptism? Faith and repentance. Exercised in that order, you are able to receive forgiveness, thus making you worthy to renew your covenants. So I screw up on Monday. I go through the principles and ordinances of the gospel in order to be worth to take the sacrament, thus renewing my baptismal covenants.

Or are the prophets (and the Savior Himself) wrong and the sacrament is just a piece of bread that doesn't do anything?

[Jeremy]

Are we still drinking wine for sacrament too?

:ymhug: =)) In church... I hope not. Lots of people would be drinking damnation to their souls. A watered down version is probably best in that scenario.

[iWriteStuff]

Many Saints in Joseph's day were baptized multiple times, and these were not proxy baptisms, nor were they for reinstatement after excommunication. They were for various reasons, such as desiring a healing, or making a renewed commitment to God. This is standard LDS history, not even the least bit hidden away.

Are we still drinking wine for sacrament too?

Have you tried asking your bishop if you can/should get another baptism?

Are you interested in learning anything new, or do you just get off on being argumentative? You stated that Joseph restored only ONE baptism, and I said that there is ample evidence that this is incorrect. I'm not arguing, just stating a simple fact.

Hey, I'm not trying to argue here either. I simply don't understand why you think it necessary to be baptized multiple times when I see no scriptural or doctrinal basis to conform to that notion.

As for learning something new, I've studied the gospel my whole life and never heard of anyone needing to be baptized more than once, unless they were exed and were returning to the fold of God. If you can tell me where I'm wrong in that being the established order, I'm open to hearing it.

*Edit: I realize now that I appear to be in the minority on this particular thread and regarding this particular topic amongst you fine followers of Mr. Snuffer. If you all feel it absolutely necessary to your salvation to be baptized multiple times, I guess you're more than welcome to feel that way. I disagree. I don't think there's anything more I can add to that. God bless and good luck!

[boo]

I Write It seems to me you have failed to deal with the very wide spread historical practice of re-baptizing which was encouraged and practiced by a variety of Presidents of the Church. Until you can deal with this historical anomaly I would be reluctant to criticize others for doing what those you esteem as the prophets of God did. Did you know Joseph was re-baptized in 1830 . The entire First Presidency and Quorum of the 12 were re-baptized in Aug 1847. So was virtually everyone in the pioneer company. My great great grandfather was and recorded it in his diary. Thousands more of the saints were also rebaptized during the reformation of 1856. Many people were re-baptized when they entered the United Order. Many people were rebaptized when they entered into Utah . It was also common practice to have a couple re -baptized prior to being married. This was encouraged by Temple Presidents .Even in the New Testament people were practicing re-baptism Acts 19:1-6 . The principle reason to be re baptized was to show a re-commitment to God. Particularly when entering into a new stage of life. Now you have a scriptural , doctrinal, and historical justification for it . Did that change your mind. If not read BYoung JD 18:241. DHC 1:77 and pray about it. We need to understand our own history better.Study it out first and then we can ask the Lord.

[Lizzy60]

I haven't been rebaptized. I don't follow Suffer. I'm not joining a community of believers. However, I do believe that there are many great and important things that will be revealed, pertaining to the Kingdom of God, and it seems that re-baptism could certainly be one of those things, in connection to rebirth, entering the Church of the Firstborn, or any number of things that have not yet been revealed. Shutting off one's mind and heart to new ideas, just because you've never heard it before, sound like the definition of hell to me.