Missionaries called home=gospel taken from the Gentiles?

[Bananikka]

An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth, to search out the righteous and, warn the wicked of coming events.

All kinds of religions will be started, and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect, if such a thing were possible.

Persecution comes next, and all Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. "Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do. ...

The judgements of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews.


Is this not what we read about (paraphrasing of course) "and the gospel will be rejected by and taken from the Gentiles"??

[Bananikka]

I seem to see everywhere that we as Gentiles will reject (with some even saying we already -including our leaders- have rejected) the gospel. I scratch my head at that, wondering what to make of it. And then I just reread this passage. Is the ultimate rejection when He decides to cease sending His message (through his missionaries) to the Gentiles? (Because of their unwillingness to accept the gospel) And, then, as the prophesied winding down scene would suggest as well, beginning to focus efforts more on the Jews? Any thoughts on this guys?

[TZONE]

It will be taken the same way it was taken from the Jews to the Gentiles.

The judgements of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews. -Joseph Smith (source below)

This is true. It will be taken from the gentiles. I wrote this in antoher post.

Taken from the Jews

The Jews, as a nation, having departed from the law of God and the Gospel of the Lord, prepared the way for transferring it to the Gentiles. (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 5:257-259)

This was done from the rejection of John the Baptist.

"The son of Zacharias wrested the keys, the kingdom, the power, the glory from the Jews, by the holy anointing and decree of heaven, and these three reasons constitute him the greatest prophet born of a woman." (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 5:260-261)

"he had his authority from God"...he came forth from the wilderness crying out, "Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is nigh at hand," as much as to say, "Out here I have got the kingdom of God and I am coming after you; I have got the kingdom of God, and you can get it, and I am coming after you; and if you don't receive it, you will be damned;(History of the Church, 5:257-259)

The Pattern is always the same. The Gentiles will reject the fulness just like the Jews rejected it when it was preached among them by John the Baptist. (3 Nephi 16:10,13). The times of hte gentiles will have been fulfilled and that generation will not passaway until a desolating scourge overtakes them (See D&C 45:2:31). They receive the fulness of the gospel (Book of Mormon) and they "receive it not".

John set the example, he closed one dispensation so another could be opened. Zion will follow this same pattern. Our generation will close and another will open.

[Bananikka]

Yes, but WHO is rejecting the gospel? Those who already have it and "set it as naught" (I may have said that wrong!) or those (non members) to whom it is being preached? (Whether by way of missionaries or member friends, family, neighbors)

[Bananikka]

The word Gentiles has been used so many times in so many ways.. Does this mean the Lords church, those NOT of His church, the US, the west in general, all non Jews, anybody not of the house of Israel.. how do we know if we are taking about the members rejecting what they have been given or the non members rejecting what they've been offered? (So in essence, it was and is being "given" bit often it is a gift that is rejected)

[Bananikka]

Am I even making sense? :p if not please refer to my first post. Lol
Is it not saying that the missionaries would be called home or "in other words", the gospel would be taken from the Gentiles?

[Bananikka]

So are these two ideas one and the same?
When the missionaries are called home THAT is a sign of the (remaining, unaccepting) Gentiles (non Jews?) having sufficiently rejected the gospel and His removing his elders from their midst?

[stillwater]

Think of the gentiles as a pond of water. The pond contains all gentile nations, including the USA, and includes the gentile church (the Latter-day Saints, who are "identified with the gentiles").

The offering of the fulness to the gentiles is like dropping a rock in the center of the pond. The rock drops on, and the splash covers, the Mormons, who loudly proclaim that they are the covenant people. The circular waves rippling through the pond are highest around those people ("the Mormon Corridor"), then slightly decrease in height as they flow through the USA, then diminish further as they reach the edges of the pond, which are the other gentile nations.

The height of the waves as they spread outward corresponds to the clarity with which the fulness of the gospel was offered, and thus corresponds to the degree of condemnation inherited by those who reject it. Of all people in the world, the Latter-day saints should be enjoying the blessings of the fulness of the gospel. So our condemnation will be greatest.

The waves will reach all gentiles, but the Latter-day Saints will be soaked.

DC 112:24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.

[kathyn]

I think that those who are true to their covenants will be considered Israel, while those rejecting the gospel...who have heard it....will be the Gentiles. The Gentile countries (mostly Europe and America) have pretty much rejected the gospel and there are not many new converts, especially European. Their time is over and now the time for others (Jews and the children of Israel) to hear and accept the gospel.

[stillwater]

I think that those who are true to their covenants will be considered Israel.

Is that a scriptural idea?

[Bananikka]

Well we are "adopted in"...

[stillwater]

What I mean is this:
"Study the word of God, and preach it and not your opinions, for no man’s opinion is worth a straw. Advance no principle but what you can prove, for one scriptural proof is worth ten thousand opinions." - Joseph Smith

I agree that it is possible for gentiles to be numbered among the children of Israel. But on what terms? Please show from the scriptures. I would suggest that you won't find the phrase "true to their covenants" in the scriptures. You will find other things though. It's worth actually reading the scriptures to find out what those things are.

That way you can avoid claiming a blessing you don't actually have yet.

[clarkkent14]

I think that those who are true to their covenants will be considered Israel.

Is that a scriptural idea?

We've already rejected the new covenant.

And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

The Incomparable Nephi

Otherwise we would have more than we have.

And when they shall have received this, which is expedient that they should have first, to try their faith, and if it shall so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.

And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.

What is the iniquity we need to repent of?

6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ; for I am he who speaketh.

So apparently we are the ones with hardened hearts

And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.

And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.

[kathyn]

As one who reads and studies the Book of Mormon as well as the other scriptures, I take exception to clarkkent's assertion that we're all under condemnation.

[Bananikka]

I do as well, and I think many of us do! The rest, well I think alot of people just don't realize how caught up in the world that they are, and would get back on track if we gave them a loving nudge/reminder of what really matters. :ymblushing:

[Christine]

Yes, but WHO is rejecting the gospel? Those who already have it and "set it as naught" (I may have said that wrong!) or those (non members) to whom it is being preached? (Whether by way of missionaries or member friends, family, neighbors)

I read from a number of mainstream Christian sources to help me understand their perspectives so that I can relate to them better. And I am frequently amazed at how they will call out "Mormons" who are trying to do good in the world. They will actually acknowledge that what they are doing is good, but will declare that it MUST be a deception because they are "Mormon" and they will actively try to put stumbling blocks in their path and prevent them from achieving their goals.

For me, this is what the Lord is referring to. When people claiming to be followers of Christ are actively fighting against his Saints, they are rejecting the Gospel. If they were truly in tune with the Holy Spirit (Latter-day Saint or not), they would be able to perceive the darkness behind their actions.

[clarkkent14]

As one who reads and studies the Book of Mormon as well as the other scriptures, I take exception to clarkkent's assertion that we're all under condemnation.

I never said that, but the Lord did.

 56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

[believer]

I posted this on another thread, and I think it is appropriate here as well:

In talking with members of the church who had never heard of this prophecy, I decided to find as many as I could. There may be others that I have not found, but I do have these:

MISSIONARIES BROUGHT HOME


“All we have yet heard and we have experienced is scarcely a preface to the sermon that is going to be preached. When the testimony of the Elders ceases to be given, and the Lord says to them, ‘Come home; I will now preach my own sermons to the nations of the earth,’ all you now know can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain, thunders and lightnings, and fearful destruction….You will hear of magnificent cities now idolized by the people, sinking in the earth, entombing the inhabitants. The sea will heave itself beyond its bounds, engulfing mighty cities. Famine will spread over the nations and nation will rise up against nation, kingdom against kingdom and states against states, in our own country and in foreign lands, and they will destroy each other, caring not for the blood and lives of their neighbors, of their families, or for their own lives.”
( Discourses of Brigham Young, pp111-112>)




"When that day shall come (when the missionaries will be called home) there shall be wars, not such wars as have come in centuries and years that are past and gone, but a desolating war. When I say desolating, I mean that it will lay these European nations in waste. Cities will be left vacated, without inhabitants. The people will be destroyed by the sword of their own hands. Not only this but many other cities will be burned; for when contending armies are wrought up with the terrible anger, without the Spirit of God upon them, when they have not that spirit of humanity that now characterizes many of the wars amongst nations, when they are left to themselves, there will be no quarter given, no prisoners taken, but a war of destruction, of desolation, of the burning of the cities and villages, until the land is laid desolate."
- Orson Pratt (J. Disc. 20: 150)



"Heber C. Kimball, Conference Report, Oct. 1930, p. 58-59, quoted by J. Golden Kimball

"After a while the gentiles will gather in Salt Lake City by the thousands, and this will be among the wicked cities of the world.

A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage."

An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth, to search out the righteous and, warn the wicked of coming events.

All kinds of religions will be started, and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect, if such a thing were possible.

Persecution comes next, and all Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. "Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do. ...

The judgements of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews.



From D & C section 88

84: Therefore, tarry ye, and labor diligently, that you may be perfected in your ministry to go forth among the Gentiles for the last time as many as the mouth of the Lord shall name, to bind up the law and seal up the testimony, and to prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come;
85: That their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked, both in this world and the world to come. Verily, I say unto you, let those who are not the first elders continue in the vineyard until the mouth of the Lord shall call them, for the time is not yet come, their garments are not clean from the blood of this generation.


"When God has called out the righteous, when the warning voice has been sufficiently proclaimed among the Gentile nations, and the Lord says, 'It is enough,' he will also say to his servants -- 'O, ye, my servants, come home, come out from the midst of these Gentile nations, where you have labored and bore testimony for so long a period; come out from among them, for they are not worthy; they do not receive the message that I have sent forth, they do not repent of their sins, come out from their midst, their times are fulfilled. Seal up the testimony among them and bind up the law." JD, O PRATT 18:64

[stillwater]

As one who reads and studies the Book of Mormon as well as the other scriptures, I take exception to clarkkent's assertion that we're all under condemnation.

I do as well, and I think many of us do! The rest, well I think alot of people just don't realize how caught up in the world that they are, and would get back on track if we gave them a loving nudge/reminder of what really matters. :ymblushing:

It is good to read the Book of Mormon. No, it's great. The book itself tells us, the Gentiles, how we can measure whether we have removed the condemnation or not:

Ether 4:6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles [that's us] until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

In seminary we would use "if/then" statements to understand the scriptures:
IF WE:
repent of our iniquity, and become clean before the Lord
exercise faith in Christ that we may become sanctified in Him

THEN CHRIST WILL
manifest unto us the things which the brother of Jared saw,
even to the unfolding unto us all His revelations

The conditions are in blue, the blessing that signals the removal of condemnation is in red. If you haven't received the blessing, you haven't met the conditions.

The conditions for receiving the same revelation as the Brother of Jared sound a lot like the conditions we need to meet for exaltation. Interesting.

[believer]

President Joseph Fielding Smith said this about the cleansing---Members and non-members:

"IMMINENT SEPARATION OF RIGHTEOUS AND WICKED. The tares are being bound in bundles to be burned. The wheat is being garnered into barns, and the day of separation is near at hand. Even the Church shall be cleansed, and those who are of the world, who are numbered among the members of the Church, will be cast out, and will find their place among those who are unworthy, where there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
....
"The time will come, just as sure as we live, that there will be a separation between the righteous and the unrighteous. Those who will not keep the law of the Lord will deny the faith, for he will withdraw has Spirit from them if they do not repent, after laboring with them and doing all that is possible to keep them in the line of duty. He will withdraw his Spirit from them and they will be left unto themselves. They must take one side or the other, for this separation must surely come."
(Smith, Joseph Fielding, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. III, p. 16.

[Gideon]

Yes, but WHO is rejecting the gospel? Those who already have it and "set it as naught" (I may have said that wrong!) or those (non members) to whom it is being preached? (Whether by way of missionaries or member friends, family, neighbors)

There are three groups of gentiles identified by the Lord in 3 Nephi: believing gentiles (LDS) unbelieving gentiles, and the nations of the gentiles.

The gentiles who reject the gospel are the same ones who scatter the Lords people, the native Americans. The unbelieving gentiles.

[clarkkent14]

Yes, but WHO is rejecting the gospel? Those who already have it and "set it as naught" (I may have said that wrong!) or those (non members) to whom it is being preached? (Whether by way of missionaries or member friends, family, neighbors)

There are three groups of gentiles identified by the Lord in 3 Nephi: believing gentiles (LDS) unbelieving gentiles, and the nations of the gentiles.

The gentiles who reject the gospel are the same ones who scatter the Lords people, the native Americans. The unbelieving gentiles.

 54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

 55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

I agree.

[believer]

Oooops

[lemuel]

What I mean is this:
"Study the word of God, and preach it and not your opinions, for no man’s opinion is worth a straw. Advance no principle but what you can prove, for one scriptural proof is worth ten thousand opinions." - Joseph Smith

I agree that it is possible for gentiles to be numbered among the children of Israel. But on what terms? Please show from the scriptures. I would suggest that you won't find the phrase "true to their covenants" in the scriptures. You will find other things though. It's worth actually reading the scriptures to find out what those things are.

That way you can avoid claiming a blessing you don't actually have yet.

2 Nephi 30:2 Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel.

I think we have the baptism part down. it's the "being filled with the Holy Ghost" part that's more difficult.

Joseph Smith said,

[T]he effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence.” (Joseph Smith, TPJS, pg. 150)

[boo]

As one who reads and studies the Book of Mormon as well as the other scriptures, I take exception to clarkkent's assertion that we're all under condemnation.

Well you can believe what you want and perhaps you individually aren't but will you take Pres Bensons word for it because that is what he said