LDS Freedom Forum

iWriteStuff wrote:Just checked her website and I don't see any events for Denver, Colorado I guess one can't be everywhere, and if I'm not mistaken this region is in for a world of hurt, but dang! That would have been cool.

And I'd bet money it's probably not kosher to record any of the other events for those of us who can't be there.

I was privledged to hear her speak in Logan Utah this year and she asked that she not be recorded.

sharmo310 wrote:

iWriteStuff wrote:Just checked her website and I don't see any events for Denver, Colorado I guess one can't be everywhere, and if I'm not mistaken this region is in for a world of hurt, but dang! That would have been cool.

And I'd bet money it's probably not kosher to record any of the other events for those of us who can't be there.

I was privledged to hear her speak in Logan Utah this year and she asked that she not be recorded.

Totally makes sense to me. No easier way for a message to get misconstrued than for it to be garble or not heard with the same spirit that was present in the meeting. All the same, I wish I could go to such an event! I guess I'll just have to re-read the current book and look forward to the next one!

jkrowe wrote:Thank you for your interest. I am sorry but the Lord has been very specific with me that we are not to record these events. At least at this point in time.

I do have family in Denver so it is likely I will be going there sometime next year. Just saw them in July so don't have any plans to go to Denver any time soon, but perhaps in 2015 sometime.

Thanks!

Julie

So on my mission there was a general authority who came to speak to our mission... me and another missionary were recording the meeting and the first thing he said was, I don't want you recording this meeting.. I want you focusing on the spirit... so my friend and I leaned forward to covertly turn off our recorders... a few seconds later he says... I can tell a few of you just repented... thank you...

I've thought a lot about that... why not to record certain meetings... of course, you need to take notes and listen to the spirit communicate what you need RIGHT THEN... but other meetings are recorded, ie GC and others.. perhaps, it's because the person wants to have confidence that they can be more open and not have those words be misquotes and come back on them, and that the message is for the current needs of the hearers and not really meant for other peoples or another time...

Either way, interesting and I think we should respect the requests of the speaker as it's their words they are sharing...

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EdGoble wrote:http://mormonskepticism.blogspot.com/20 ... s-and.html

Ed Goble,

I have ears to hear, and what I heard while reading that blog post was anger and contempt. That post was saturated with the spirit of contention and completely void of the fruits of the spirit.

Thank you for strengthening my testimony of Julie Rowe, John Pontius, and Spencer. It might do you some good to learn that in addition to being called as a bishop after Visions of Glory was published, Spencer is also now in a position where he meets with the brethren once a week. I suggest you write a letter to the church administration building, informing them that they are acting outside of your perceived "established order."

EdGoble wrote:http://mormonskepticism.blogspot.com/20 ... s-and.html

I've edited and expanded this post a few times. I have documented to the best of my memory what happened with Dalton, and why in my view you should all disbelieve Julie Rowe's claims. I posted a different version of parts of this previously on my blog, but then removed it. But now I have put it back up for the benefit of whoever has ears to hear. Hopefully my experience will be of value to someone to discern the truth of the Julie Rowes of the world, and it is not in vain.

I appreciate your post and your work and your honesty... I'm glad that you actually put real reasoning down in your post... I don't agree with everything you wrote, saying you can guarantee this or you can bet on that... personally I can't guarantee anything for anyone... that's something I've learned as I've gotten older! (and much wiser... ^:)^ right!)

But it's good to see someone here that's not caught up in the main socially accepted topics on LDS Freedom Forum (ie challenge the brethren and the church... seek for hidden light and knowledge in an NDE or something some general authority said 100 years ago in his journal that you happened to find, etc...).. I like to see good arguments that are thought out so I can properly access my position... I don't think people here agree that I do, but that's because I challenge them to be honest with themselves, which most of them won't be!

The jury is still out for me on Julie Rowe and Spencer, however I am thankful that I feel a greater desire to prepare my family more spiritually and physically... I've had that desire for awhile, but now reading a version of what may happen in the future, even if it is only a 'fiction' version, helps me to understand more of what things may be like. I agree, though, that many of these authors gain such a 'following' that even it these things were true it would be hard to stay aloof of being puffed up in pride about you having further 'light and knowledge' to give!

JaredE wrote:

EdGoble wrote:http://mormonskepticism.blogspot.com/20 ... s-and.html

Ed Goble,

I have ears to hear, and what I heard while reading that blog post was anger and contempt. That post was saturated with the spirit of contention and completely void of the fruits of the spirit.

Thank you for strengthening my testimony of Julie Rowe, John Pontius, and Spencer. It might do you some good to learn that in addition to being called as a bishop after Visions of Glory was published, Spencer is also now in a position where he meets with the brethren once a week. I suggest you write a letter to the church administration building, informing them that they are acting outside of your perceived "established order."

John Pontius had his issues... I should not tarnish his name, esp the fact that he passed away, but learning some things about him definitely shook my belief in the book... I would say that it really doesn't matter whether either account is true if we're being obedient... and we're not using them in replace of studying the scripture and listening to our leaders!

JaredE wrote:

EdGoble wrote:http://mormonskepticism.blogspot.com/20 ... s-and.html

Ed Goble,

I have ears to hear, and what I heard while reading that blog post was anger and contempt. That post was saturated with the spirit of contention and completely void of the fruits of the spirit.

Thank you for strengthening my testimony of Julie Rowe, John Pontius, and Spencer. It might do you some good to learn that in addition to being called as a bishop after Visions of Glory was published, Spencer is also now in a position where he meets with the brethren once a week. I suggest you write a letter to the church administration building, informing them that they are acting outside of your perceived "established order."

ftw

It's like Ed got talked into buying a bad car once, and now all cars are lemons..

njb

Kind of how I felt too... but didn't want to discredit what he learned either in the process...

wompus wrote:Kind of how I felt too... but didn't want to discredit what he learned either in the process...

His experience was designed for his benefit, as all our experiences are designed. That he cannot believe in NDEs or those who share them is neither good nor bad, so long as he has learned to follow the prophet and the voice of the Spirit. I believe Ed's heart is in the right place, and for that I thank him.

However, I cannot condone the vehement and contentious desire to discourage others or defame those with real experiences beyond the veil. If you do not believe them, say so and move on. It does no good to attack and hurl accusations.

I believe Spencer and Julie, not because they have told me so but because the Spirit has confirmed the truth of their experiences to me. If that witness draws me closer to Christ, why try to destroy it or rail against it? That is neither in keeping with the spirit of love, nor is it of God.

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:
It's like Ed got talked into buying a bad car once, and now all cars are lemons..

Joseph Smith called Oliver Cowdery and Sidney Rigdon to assist him in his work, but they later apostatized. The good and faithful saints believed in those two as they gave great sermons inspired of the Holy Ghost, but ultimately they were excommunicated.

Thus, apostles who are called by the current president of the church can't be trusted.

Is that the "if...then" logic being used here?

iWriteStuff wrote:

wompus wrote:Kind of how I felt too... but didn't want to discredit what he learned either in the process...

His experience was designed for his benefit, as all our experiences are designed. That he cannot believe in NDEs or those who share them is neither good nor bad, so long as he has learned to follow the prophet and the voice of the Spirit. I believe Ed's heart is in the right place, and for that I thank him.

However, I cannot condone the vehement and contentious desire to discourage others or defame those with real experiences beyond the veil. If you do not believe them, say so and move on. It does no good to attack and hurl accusations.

I believe Spencer and Julie, not because they have told me so but because the Spirit has confirmed the truth of their experiences to me. If that witness draws me closer to Christ, why try to destroy it or rail against it? That is neither in keeping with the spirit of love, nor is it of God.

Well, your feelings, my friend, are not in harmony with the testimony that I have about people outside the established order.

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EdGoble wrote:

iWriteStuff wrote:

wompus wrote:Kind of how I felt too... but didn't want to discredit what he learned either in the process...

His experience was designed for his benefit, as all our experiences are designed. That he cannot believe in NDEs or those who share them is neither good nor bad, so long as he has learned to follow the prophet and the voice of the Spirit. I believe Ed's heart is in the right place, and for that I thank him.

However, I cannot condone the vehement and contentious desire to discourage others or defame those with real experiences beyond the veil. If you do not believe them, say so and move on. It does no good to attack and hurl accusations.

I believe Spencer and Julie, not because they have told me so but because the Spirit has confirmed the truth of their experiences to me. If that witness draws me closer to Christ, why try to destroy it or rail against it? That is neither in keeping with the spirit of love, nor is it of God.

Because you, my friend are misled by a false spirit that is not of God if you are getting those kind of confirmations.

Thanks for keeping this alive, Ed. I think you're actually doing a better job promoting Julie than any publicist could do for twice your annual salary.

And again, I'd worry less about "false spirits" and more about contentious ones if I were you. I paid you a compliment and gave you the benefit of the doubt. You return that with attacks? I'm not sure who you plan to convince with that approach.

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EdGoble wrote:

iWriteStuff wrote: Thanks for keeping this alive, Ed. I think you're actually doing a better job promoting Julie than any publicist could do for twice your annual salary.

And again, I'd worry less about "false spirits" and more about contentious ones if I were you. I paid you a compliment and gave you the benefit of the doubt. You return that with attacks? I'm not sure who you plan to convince with that approach.

I will convince whoever will give me ear.

Well, then, keep on attacking, Ed. I'm sure you'll make loads of friends.

EdGoble wrote: Wow. Ever heard of the fallacy of an appeal to authority?

So to recap, your message is that Julie and Spencer are deceivers because they are not one of the brethren. Yet when it is pointed out that Spencer was recently placed in a position of authority by the brethren, it's a fallacy.

Meanwhile, on another message board that you were recently banned from, you declared yourself the winner of a debate, because you are a high priest and have had scientific papers published, as though that somehow made you a higher authority.

There are many reasons why President Monson won't come out and publicly declare that certain governments are being run by gaddiantons, nor will he disclose their forthcoming secret combinations. The adversary is obviously aware of his silence, which makes me suspect that he would want to plant in people's minds a "prophet or bust" philosophy.

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JaredE wrote:

EdGoble wrote: Wow. Ever heard of the fallacy of an appeal to authority?

So to recap, your message is that Julie and Spencer are deceivers because they are not one of the brethren. Yet when it is pointed out that Spencer was recently placed in a position of authority by the brethren, it's a fallacy.

Meanwhile, on another message board that you were recently banned from, you declared yourself the winner of a debate, because you are a high priest and have had scientific papers published, as though that somehow made you a higher authority.

There are many reasons why President Monson won't come out and publicly declare that certain governments are being run by gaddiantons, nor will he disclose their forthcoming secret combinations. The adversary is obviously aware of his silence, which makes me suspect that he would want to plant in people's minds a "prophet or bust" philosophy.

No. I was not banned from the Facebook forum or at least, while I was a part of it for the small amount of time I was a part of it, I was not banned. I left of my own accord. I never said I was a High Priest. Never had scientific papers published. Never declared I was somehow the winner of a debate. I showed what I was an author of.

EdGoble wrote:

JaredE wrote:

EdGoble wrote: Wow. Ever heard of the fallacy of an appeal to authority?

So to recap, your message is that Julie and Spencer are deceivers because they are not one of the brethren. Yet when it is pointed out that Spencer was recently placed in a position of authority by the brethren, it's a fallacy.

Meanwhile, on another message board that you were recently banned from, you declared yourself the winner of a debate, because you are a high priest and have had scientific papers published, as though that somehow made you a higher authority.

There are many reasons why President Monson won't come out and publicly declare that certain governments are being run by gaddiantons, nor will he disclose their forthcoming secret combinations. The adversary is obviously aware of his silence, which makes me suspect that he would want to plant in people's minds a "prophet or bust" philosophy.

What the hell? I was never banned from any other message board recently. I am an Elder, NOT a High Priest. I have NO scientific papers published. What I have published is SELF PUBLISHED, not in scientific journals. You APPARENTLY have me confused with my COUSIN CLARK GOBLE who is a BYU guy for what little I know about him(I think). Maybe that is him you think you are talking to. Read the NAME MORE CLOSELY. Furthermore, you have now transferred the issue yet again from the subject at hand and gone AD HOMINEM, TRANSFERRING THE ISSUE BACK TO ME AND WHAT HAS OR HAS NOT HAPPENED TO ME. And you don't even KNOW ME FROM MY RELATIVES.

Ed, you're a hoot. I can't speak at all to Jared's comments, but you have no problem at all pulling the CAPS card on folks at the drop of a hat. That in itself is interesting.

Julie Rowe is inspired. Spencer is inspired. Guess who else? 15 ordained prophets, seers, and revelators. And many others. We all have missions here on earth. Being a voice of warning is one such mission. I support at least that part of Jared's comments.

iWriteStuff wrote:Ed, you're a hoot. I can't speak at all to Jared's comments, but you have no problem at all pulling the CAPS card on folks at the drop of a hat. That in itself is interesting.

Julie Rowe is inspired. Spencer is inspired. Guess who else? 15 ordained prophets, seers, and revelators. And many others. We all have missions here on earth. Being a voice of warning is one such mission. I support at least that part of Jared's comments.

Then more power to you in your beliefs. I am done with you.

EdGoble wrote:

iWriteStuff wrote:Ed, you're a hoot. I can't speak at all to Jared's comments, but you have no problem at all pulling the CAPS card on folks at the drop of a hat. That in itself is interesting.

Julie Rowe is inspired. Spencer is inspired. Guess who else? 15 ordained prophets, seers, and revelators. And many others. We all have missions here on earth. Being a voice of warning is one such mission. I support at least that part of Jared's comments.

Then more power to you in your beliefs. I am done with you, and obviously, you are not one that is listening to me, so go ahead and get your entertainment from me if you please. Everything I have said is something with an extremely serious nature that none of you seem to comprehend or value, but someday I promise you that you will wish you had taken me seriously.

Proverbs 15: - A soft answer turneth away wrath; But a grievous word stirreth up anger.

All I'm suggesting is you try the former, not the latter.