New seminary graduation requirements

[Original_Intent]

http://ldsliving.com/story/76647-new-se ... -for-youth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Personally, I am not a fan of the change. Must read all of the standard works cover to cover now to graduate, if not you get a "certificate of participation"...comments are quite illuminating, most seem to be against the change, with the occasional voice of "this decision came from the Brethren, to question this is to question them, which is questioning the Lord!"

Another attempt to "raise the bar", another box to check off.

[e-eye]

It's hard because so many kids play video games or are on electronics in general. Most kids don't read the scriptures at all at least now they will be required to. I think it's a great move as in our stake the kids that read the Book of Mormon during seminary was under 20%.

[Ruby]

I have a hard enough time getting one of my sons to take seminary. He has taken seminary because we've asked him to and it's a needed break from school. Now it's one more class to stress about passing. He'll be expected to study for it, but won't get high school credit. That is how he will see it. My other children won't have a problem with it at all. But he is the one who needs it the most.
E-eye above said that at least now kids will be required to read scriptures. I say that those who already read scriptures will read them still, those that don't will either lie about it or give up on seminary.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Satan's plan... compelled/forced "righteousness"

[ajax]

Well, if there is going to be something called "Seminary", there should be some sort of rigor to it.

The problem is pressuring or shaming kids into attending for really nothing more than a cultural "keeping up appearances" charade. How many of us, when our kids became freshman, just automatically assumed and then leaned on our kids as if the decision has already been made for them? I confess, I did that with my first two kids. No more. My last two? - their choice. There ought to be ZERO of that coming from anybody, anywhere - leaders, teachers, parents - that somehow equates going to seminary as being a "good member" or being on the "right track". Good luck with that. Too ingrained. Besides, half the time we had to detox them from what they were receiving.

They also ought to eliminate ALL perks that come with it like getting preference for BYU etc.

[ajax]

Satan's plan... compelled/forced "righteousness"

Do kids have to sign up in Utah?

[sixpacktr]

Satan's plan... compelled/forced "righteousness"

What? That has to be one of the silliest things I've heard.

No one is forcing them. Good golly.

[Lizzy60]

Satan's plan... compelled/forced "righteousness"

What? That has to be one of the silliest things I've heard.

No one is forcing them. Good golly.

I guess you can't remember what it's like to be a teenager, and the peer pressure put on the "slackers" by the "righteous" kids, and the privledges and sense of value withheld by parents, if a teen decides to not attend seminary, even though in all other aspects he's living the gospel and being a "good" kid. It definitely smacks of compelled "righteousness".

[sixpacktr]

Satan's plan... compelled/forced "righteousness"

What? That has to be one of the silliest things I've heard.

No one is forcing them. Good golly.

I guess you can't remember what it's like to be a teenager, and the peer pressure put on the "slackers" by the "righteous" kids, and the privledges and sense of value withheld by parents, if a teen decides to not attend seminary, even though in all other aspects he's living the gospel and being a "good" kid. It definitely smacks of compelled "righteousness".

I do remember. And I was one of the slackers. Didn't grad from seminary. Read my scriptures though, etc.

Kids are coddled today. What is a little peer pressure? So what if others think things about you?

I swear, we are so worried about hurting their precious feelings, we do them a disservice by lowering standards to make sure everyone feels included. Guess what? The world, at large, sucks, and what we don't teach them about coping the world will exploit.

I applaud the new requirements. Read and gain a testimony of the scriptures. Do the memorization. It will do them a world of good.

[Melissa]

Seminary is not required is it?

There has been zero questioning if I attended let alone passed seminary. I think it is helpful to the youth though, much like everything else the church has set up for them.

Unless you want to work for CES, then I dont see the big deal.

Why stress so much about it?

[Zowieink]

I joined the Church my senior year of high school and was already committed to a schedule. My kids, except one, have all attended seminary. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. On one hand: there is a tremendous opportunity for the youth to gain a testimony or to help build an existing testimony. They have great teachers that interest the students and help them see the value of the scriptures, a living prophet, etc. On the other hand: You can have really BAD teachers, teaching inaccurate doctrine and concepts, who give those impressionable minds weirded out ideas. Seminary becomes a status symbol in that if you aren't going, you're not really active and not part of the "in crowd".

I've seen it both ways with my children and some are definitely warped because of their experience and some are incredibly strong for their experience with seminary.

Perhaps this move is bringing seminary graduation requirements in line with Young Women and Young Men requirements, "For the Strength of Youth Program", etc. etc. etc. In a active family, there's a lot of pressure put on the youth to excel in everything: academics, sports, music, seminary, young men/young women programs, and preparation for missions and many times they burn out and as soon as they are home from their missions go inactive...too much pressure, too much guilt, to much sometimes. In the end, nobody cares in the long run...being temple worthy (for missions, marriage, etc.) is far more important than seminary or for that matter anything other "program".

[samizdat]

I have a hard enough time getting one of my sons to take seminary. He has taken seminary because we've asked him to and it's a needed break from school. Now it's one more class to stress about passing. He'll be expected to study for it, but won't get high school credit. That is how he will see it. My other children won't have a problem with it at all. But he is the one who needs it the most.
E-eye above said that at least now kids will be required to read scriptures. I say that those who already read scriptures will read them still, those that don't will either lie about it or give up on seminary.

When the Benemerito school was still open, Seminary HAD to be passed or you failed the year. That was the case from the 1960s until the movement of the MTC to the grounds in 2013.

[e-eye]

Let's not soon forget we all currently being tested and are partaking of the Lords School. We have our agency and so do the students. Seminary is not a requisite for life eternal but an aide that has been given us if we choose to use it. I think not passing can affect where you serve your mission as some countries require the missionaries to have some type of qualification and seminary meets that.

Years ago when I was taking seminary they changed the way we were graded every year. One year reading was part of it. It's really not a big deal. Those who chose to read will be blessed more than if they don't read. You reap what you sew.

[gkearney]

Reading is not a "big deal" unless you can 't read without a deal of difficulty. Then it becomes a very big deal indeed.

The issue that I see here is that my son (15) is in a pressure cooker of a public school. The demands on him are very high academically. The last thing in the world he need now is for a church activity to become just another form of school. Church should be a refuge from eh world not an extension of it. So I rather object to the whole reading, testing, home work!, grades cycle that seminary has, at least here, turned itself into. All this as he has to be up at 4:30 am to get to it as well.

I would like my son to go to seminary but I will not force him to do so. He has asked if I could teach a seminary course in the evening at our house. I will ask the Bishop that question Sunday. But it I do so it will be a non-academic style course. No homework, no tests, no grades beyond simple attendance. I will not have church turned into school under my watch.

[ElectLady]

I agree there shouldn't be a benefit for college/BYU. Our son also considered it a lost class without credit because it was release time. Because of it, he had to take online courses to keep up the school schedule. It's a hard sell. He didn't want to go but we made it an expectation. We told him is was part of his religious education just like Hebrew school or whatever. It is beginning to pay off a little, and this is his last year. He is motivated to go because of a wonderful teacher. And the food =). I read over the new req's and they are the same as when I was in seminary, so I just shrugged it off. I do think it is ridiculous to "grade" them at all. Just give them a certificate at the end of each year like I got back in the day. I mean, we don't grade sunday school, so why grade seminary? It's not like its an actual "seminary"!

[AI2.0]

The problem here in Utah with seminary comes if you aren't in public school. My daughters attended an LDS private school and at first they let us hire a seminary teacher, then they would not. We had to work around our schedule so they could attend at the high school. My youngest may have to do home study seminary because we can't have our own semnary teacher at the school and we may not be able to find a time that works for her.
And they weigh seminary into byu admissions. My oldest graduated at 16 and so she went to community college where she took institute and so did not graduate from seminary. She applied for byu but was offered summer school, rather than the winter semester and the fact that she did not graduate from seminary was given as part of the reason in the letter. She decided to attend the U of Utah instead. But, byu did accept her to their law school even though she did not grad. from seminary. ;)

I think the church needs to realize that many students don't follow the normal routine of public school till age 18 and they need to be more flexible in religious education--at least in utah. Personally, I think it is because the teachers union is extremely powerful here and the church does not want to get on their bad side so they do little to help those who choose to educate their children outside of public system.

[Showella]

I like that it helps them get into a buy school even though participation should help not just graduating. Reading scriptures cover to cover. That's a tall order I not being much of a scripture reader but I am sure it will count if you read them together as a family. It is not compelled righteousness they have a choice and I don't recall much peer pressure given to the kids who chose to not go to seminary. Church leaders and parents will give some pressure because you should know about the religion you profess. They are trying to get all of us closer to Christ by knowing more about him and following his example. If you don't like it don't force your kids to graduate. If they actively participate they will benefit. Their should also be home school seminary. So those home schooled or in private schools are not unfairly punished. They probably could all go to early morning seminary. I don't know if that is a realistic solution. Mainly enough space not just being to lazy to get up in the morning.

[Showella]

Captain of 100. Is early morning seminary not your solution?

[shadow]

Satan's plan... compelled/forced "righteousness"

There's no force involved.
Reading the scriptures doesn't seem like some crazy requirement in order to graduate from..... Seminary!
But as one who didn't graduate because attendance apparently was a requirement, I don't really care.

Minimum standards aren't a big deal nor are they part of satans plan. Heck, this site has rules too Satans plan? What of those who enforce those rules? Yikes :-ss

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Satan's plan... compelled/forced "righteousness"

There's no force involved.
Reading the scriptures doesn't seem like some crazy requirement in order to graduate from..... Seminary!
But as one who didn't graduate because attendance apparently was a requirement, I don't really care.

Minimum standards aren't a big deal nor are they part of satans plan. Heck, this site has rules too Satans plan? What of those who enforce those rules? Yikes :-ss

It seems like you really are out to troll my posts and twist my words lately. I'm sorry for whatever it was that offended you.

My post has to do with D&C 121 and the principles outlined there. Having rules to eliminate abuse and profanity and such is different than say...... forcing every member of the forum to read every single thing Denver Snuffer has written or said if they want to remain members simply because the owner likes his stuff. Clear?

[shadow]

Requiring someone to actually READ the scriptures in order to graduate from seminary (not in order to go to heaven) is not of satan. Claiming that the church is following satans plan by having this requirement is just silly at best. It's seminary. It makes sense that in order to graduate from seminary, one should actually read the scriptures. This isn't a test of worthiness, it's seminary.

[Original_Intent]

Requiring someone to actually READ the scriptures in order to graduate from seminary (not in order to go to heaven) is not of satan. Claiming that the church is following satans plan by having this requirement is just silly at best. It's seminary. It makes sense that in order to graduate from seminary, one should actually read the scriptures. This isn't a test of worthiness, it's seminary.

I guess my perspective on this is that my son is now a senior, he arranged a very aggressive schedule with many AP classes (which he has always pushed himself). I understand that scripture study is part of seminary, and honestly reading the D&C and Pearl of Great Price this year is not that big of a deal. But it is lame to make that additional requirement with really no notice, and say you "don't complete seminary" without passing the assessment and reading the scripture being studied. Expecting a 9th grader to read the Old Testament in its entirety I think is a pretty steep demand. Has anyone here read the entire standard works before graduating high school? I read the Book of Mormon several times, but again, I think the OT in particular is going to be demanding enough of most high schoolers that the honest ones many will not be passing seminary - they will either pass by stretching the truth or they simply won't pass. Certainly there will be some that complete it honestly - but I think hoping for a 50% honest pass rate is very optimistic.

I think my graduating class it might have been 10% at best that would have done it. I expect what will happen is there will be all kinds of waivers to allow kids to graduate - they have ADHD, they have reading struggles, etc. etc. We'll see.

Most of the comments on the link are against the change, with a few voices in the wilderness saying, more or less, "Follow the Prophet!" like this was the revealed will of God.

[survivaldealer]

I suppose if your kid took a math class and the teacher required reading the book, that would be too much to ask. If they are not going to read the book, they should not take the class.

There are already far too many people with certificates hanging on their wall that did not read the book.

You might want to ask your surgeon if he/she read the book?

How about your attorney?

Like the doctor with a snake on his certificate and he never read the book but he talked with the snake. It was the same snake Eve talked with.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

IMO, it's like "requiring" my son to go on a mission if he wants to remain in good standing with me or live in my household. What good does "forced righteousness" do? None. At. All. And it's demonstrative of putting yourself above someone else and demanding a standard YOU feel makes that person more worthy; in this case, "worthy" of graduation. Why not just TEACH with love, and allow these kids their agency... freedom to choose whether or not they want to read the entire standard works? It's just uncomfortable to me. I feel bad for those kids like me who didn't want to be there anyway. When I was ready, I started reading and studying the Gospel so fervently and with such hunger, that I cannot get enough. But it has never been because someone told me to or expected me to or would give me a better status in the community if I did so.

[Original_Intent]

I suppose if your kid took a math class and the teacher required reading the book, that would be too much to ask. If they are not going to read the book, they should not take the class.

There are already far too many people with certificates hanging on their wall that did not read the book.

You might want to ask your surgeon if he/she read the book?

How about your attorney?

Like the doctor with a snake on his certificate and he never read the book but he talked with the snake. It was the same snake Eve talked with.

Thank you, your sarcasm is duly noted.
This is a new requirement. Of course there have always been things that needed to be studied, and that included reading a good portion of whatever book of scripture was the subject for that year.

Obviously you are more concerned with scoring smart d o n k e y points than in discussion.
Did you read all of the standard works cover to cover in high school?